Teen Murderer Says Jail Is Too Hard, Appeals Sentence

Source: http://www.wftv.com/news/10458584/detail.html

Quote:

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- One of the teenagers responsible for beating a Holly Hill homeless man to death asked a judge to reduce his 22-year prison sentence Monday. Warren Messner and three other teens pled guilty to killing the man because they were bored, but Messner said prison is too hard.

Messner is a big boy. He was 15 at the time he was brought into the woods to see the homeless man his friends had been beating. Even at that young age, he outweighed the victim, Michael Roberts, by 200 pounds when he jumped on his chest, crushing his ribcage. Roberts died.

"Did you feel bad when you are doing it?" Messner was asked during questioning.

"Not really, no," he replied.

He didn't feel bad then, but he does now. He has been in juvenile detention for eight months, locked in a small cell and occasionally allowed to go to class.

Messner and his attorney said he has already learned his lesson and is ready to go home to help others.

"I want to be an inspirational speaker for troubled teens," he said Monday.

Messner got the lightest sentence of the four boys. Teens Jeffrey Spurgeon, Justin Stearns and Christopher Scamahorn got 27 to 35 years. They all cut plea deals to avoid life in prison.

The state attorney said that's as much leniency as they should get and the judge agreed.

"I can't think of some reason to change the sentence. I'm going to deny the motion," said the Hon. Joseph Will.

Messner's parents broke down at the denial. His mother said it's unfair, that her son fell in with a bad crowd and prison is killing him.

"He's not getting the mental health, the schooling. He's not getting anything, anything but locked in a cell all day long," Lori Messner said.

The judge and the state both argued that being deprived services and being locked away is precisely the point of prison. Warren Messner will spend the next 22 years in prison without the chance for parole.

Seriously, TOO HARD? Just because of that you should be allowed to walk away, despite having brutally killed a man?

Go Judge for keeping the kid in jail, where he belongs. (I'm not sure how long he's been in at this point, but it seems to be less than a year.)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I agree - "jail is too hard" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You jumped on a homeless man's chest at 200 pounds, and show practically no remorse. I am PRETTY SURE that deserves, you know, a really really harsh penalty.

While I understand the mother's pain - I can't say she's thinking practically. She's probably not a very good parent to begin with, but thats not really the question here - the kid needs to be locked up. Someone with no remorse for aiding in a murder of an innocent man SHOULD NOT be on the streets. Even if he claims he can help others.

Edit: Devo gets thumbs up.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's always easy to speak like that especially when most of us haven't had children before. Not that I condone the murder but their parents have the right to use all the means neccesary to make his sentence shorter or nulified.

How ya doing, buddy?

Again, I don't approve the murder or the reasons (as if they actually had one) for doing it. I just said I don't think his mother's attitude is out of place.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Tawnee Van Pelt

Not that I condone the murder but their parents have the right to use all the means neccesary to make his sentence shorter or nulified.

Yea, and if his parents had any sense or a code of ethics, they'd know their son was a murderer - a brutal one, with no evidence of a CONSCIENCE - they'd agree that prison was best for a child of this nature. They should realize he's a HAZARD to society, and understand that there are other people this kid could harm. As PARENTS, they should understand that.

But then, judging by their poor judgement of the situation - how juvvy is JUST TOO HARD - I imagine that they WOULDN'T grasp the decision the Judge made, would they.

It's never your son, is it. It's never his fault.

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That's messed up. I hate the whole idea of these punks thinking homeless people aren't people, so they can do whatever they want with them, including murder. People walking around beating homeless people with bats happens quite often too. It's sick. If someone kills an innocent person, they deserve a life-sentence. He needs to learn the hard way by getting beat himself if he thinks sitting inside of a small cell is hard. What was he smoking when he jumped on the man? Did he think it would be harmless fun in crushing someone's ribcage and to find them lifeless afterwards?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Devolution

I say make the sentence longer.

I say make the sentence more cruel - stick him in prison, not this " juvenile detention" bullshit.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by BigHairyFeet

Here's one to ponder: would he get assraped (if at all) for a) killing a homeless man, or b) being young?

Both. He's a fresh-face if he was entering prison and because of his lack of 'conscience,' it would lead him to eventual submission by the hands of some big lads who would beat him and humiliate him. He just doesn't know that experience, but he needs to learn if he thinks what he has right now is hard. Being soft on him seems like it would lead him to just arrogance and even ignorance. What is he going to do by becoming a spokesman? "The punishment is harsh. You get crammed in a small cell if you kill a man." I don't buy it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I can't feel any sympathy for this kid after hearing what he did. I'd do the same thing the judge did, deny the appeal.

I'm going to have to go with "you did the crime, now you're gonna do the time." There's a reason why cops try to reach out to kids not to commit crimes, and obviously this kid didn't give it much thought till after he was put in. And this should be a lesson to every parent out there to teach their kids that killing other people is wrong (at least the way those guys did it. Killing someone in self-defense or to protect another person's life is different, but I don't think jumping on a homeless guy's chest cause you're bored qualifies as either one of those two).

If he really wants to help people, then he should do it after he gets out, and hopefully teach others not to do stupid things like that so they don't end up like him. But I don't think he should get out just because he's bored in there. I'm sure that homeless man didn't want to die by those morons either, but it still happened (and again, they didn't seem to care about the fact that they were taking another person's life away).

To me, it sounds more like he's sorry he got caught, rather than sorrow for having killed the man.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

damn right to deny the appeal. personally, I think the kid should get life. I mean, if you're bored, go to the arcade, read a book, but no, this little social reject decides it'd be more fun to kill someone. and now that he's getting what's coming to him, it's "too hard". well, boo fucking hoo. someone wanna get me a boat so I can paddle up this river the kid is crying us?

you know this is probably one of the funniest things I find in society today, all these kids act so tough, they act like they can take anything, until it actually happens, and then more times than not, when it comes to their parents, a few fake tears, trembling lip, and sorrowful voice, and they've gotten away with it for a couple of months until they're bored again and decide to rinse and repeat their actions.

screw the kid, screw anyone in the justice system who feels sorry for him, and send him back to jail with a sign around his neck saying "I ratted you all out to the police" and watch the fireworks begin

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devolution

Watch more Oz buddy. All of it is based on actual accounts the writers read about in prison records. The young ones usually become prags.

RAPE TIME!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

These stories always make me sick - kids beating homeless people like it's some kind of hobby. Kid's appeal is obviously ridiculous. I wish all these kids were given life sentences.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The kid should stay. They should give him an education by providing him books, the Internet, etc if need be. They should encourage him to make the best use of his time (he has a LOT of it) to improve him, mentally, emotionally and so forth. Then, and only then (or when actually) his time is up, should he be let out.

As for the parents saying it's not fair and all, the parents should take responsibility themselves. Yes, you can't watch your children every minute of the day, and you should give them some degree of trust. However, you should spend SOME time with them, to the point of knowing whether your child has a problem that may result in this. FUrthermore, you should know what crowds your child is hanging around, so that you can know if there is a problem. If they wish to blame it on bad crowds, they should put some of the blame on themself for not noticing this earlier and having their son stay away from that crowd...

I was speaking idiomatically.

If this kid thinks "prison is too hard", he's obviously not regretful of his actions at all, I mean, he killed a man.

A situation similar to this happened at my school, where about 4-5 kids (I knew most of them) assaulted multiple homeless people (for seemingly no reason, although one of them was already a rampant vandal; his sentence is still pending because he has other charges that include driving around throwing bricks through random windows and statutory rape charges for having sex with a thirteen year old girl [You would have swore she was eighteen from her myspace, says others] Though his other crimes which he isn't charged for include but aren't limited to other cases of random violence, credit card fraud/identity theft, stealing from and debugging ATMs).

A few of them (the ones who ratted everyone to the police for a reduced sentence; they said they had lesser involvement, which is a lie) got simply a few years of probation, others got 3-4 years with about 80% served before probation. It was weird when it happened, because I saw a few of these people in school daily (some were acquaintances), and one you wouldn't think would be involved with it all, this kid Dennis who was an abercrombie wearing, Java programming video game playing dude with a real child like simple edge to him. Seems like one of those people you wouldn't suspect doing anything really. Turns out his involvement was mostly limited to "the watch out" later. It sucks for him now, I suppose, as he just finished his freshman year in college. Though I suppose he could still finish it after he gets out; three years isn't a huge loss compared to what it could have been.

It's a shame for some of them, I suppose, but half of them I already thought were scumbags to begin with. The aforementioned kid who committed a bunch of crimes was always sort of a psychopath though really. I had hung out with him outside school (always through other people though), mostly at concerts. No matter where we were in public he would yell or say the most off beat or intentionally offensive things, like going up to a bald little kid on a line at burger king (who was with his father no less) and asking him "hey little fella, are ya special?" Later he would randomly yell "fucking republicans" in the restaurant. On the parkway he insulted some Jewish family by making a "hook nose" with his hand and later pulled out a twenty dollar bill (and shortly thereafter she flipped us off again with a dollar) and told some lady who cut my friend off to jerk him off with the requisite hand gesture. Later at the concert he nearly got us into a fight too.

My friend Brian would always defend him, as they were pretty good friends, but as much as he's a "good friend" to his friends, he's just a born deviant otherwise. It's a shame because he's a computer wizard, and likely could have a had a good career in the field had he not been a total nut.

So overall, he gets a heavier sentence than the others, but he has other charges for well. When I compare him with Dennis, I'd definitely give this kid a heavier sentence, considering his compound offenses (I'd say prior but he never got caught) and history. For the same offense, it seems like he would be more likely to pioneer it and the others to follow. Regardless of which, I feel they all deserve jail time anyway.

As far as this case goes, I can't believe the kid would admit he didn't feel bad when he did it. He just comes off as really dumb and naive in this article.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Tawnee Van Pelt

Again, I don't approve the murder or the reasons (as if they actually had one) for doing it. I just said I don't think his mother's attitude is out of place.

No. His mother is retarded. Only a complete moron would not recognize the beginnings of a psychopath with a answer like, "Not really, no."

FELIPE NO

Ooookay....

Mom says prison is killing him?

What about the man her son killed--without remorse? Her son weighed over 200 pounds and decided to use the man as a trampoline. Great child-rearing skills in that one....

The boy got what he deserved. Although I think they need to re-think the capital punishment system in some cases.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I like how his mother thinks he's not "getting the mental health" or "anything in the cell" when it already takes someone pretty fucked up to randomly kill a homeless man.

If someone does let him out, he should be released under the condition of putting him in a psych ward for a while. He'll be getting plenty of "mental health" in there.

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I'm wondering what kind of psychiatric help he is currently receiving. He has murdered a man and shown no remorse - his sentence is fitting. He ought to remain in jail for the 22 years he has been given.
I am worried though that after these 22 years he will come out no different than he has started. He will still feel no remorse for his actions and me might be liable to perform other socially irresponsible acts.
It is while keeping that in mind that I ask what kind of counseling, if any, he is receiving. The kid does need to be punished but the society doesn't need an equal lunatic after 22 years of prison.

And don't say "lol, 22 years of ass rape will teach him to stay on the right side of the law". No it won't. It'll make him bitter and anti-social.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by neus

And don't say "lol, 22 years of ass rape will teach him to stay on the right side of the law". No it won't. It'll make him bitter and anti-social.

Because being in a 5 foot by 6 foot jail cell by himself really makes him a social butterfly?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by neus

It'll make him bitter and anti-social.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not entirely sure if all this time will in fact make him this way, but it's very possible. Especially if, in his mind, he feels he did nothing wrong. It's obvious from his "no, not really" comment when asked if he felt remorse, that there is something wrong. That said, when he's released, I'm not so sure he won't resort to similar or even worse crimes. Hopefully not, but he does have 22 years to think about what he has done.

While I understand his parents are upset by the denial, they should be more concerned with what life would be like for their child if he was released. In his mind, he initially must have thought he did nothing wrong...imagine what he'd think if he was promptly released for such a heinous act. It would almost be like positive conditioning.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Sucks to be the kid I say....

He beats a homeless guy and expects to be let off easy? Kudos to the Judge!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bolide

In his mind, he initially must have thought he did nothing wrong...

I think that at 15 you know the difference between right and wrong and I hate to say it but killing a man is kind of wrong.

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imagine what he'd think if he was promptly released for such a heinous act. It would almost be like positive conditioning.

No. The message that this would send out is, "Hey kid... We know you fucked up but here's a get-out-of-jail-free card for your good sportsmanship. Hope to see you here again REAL soon."

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

What startles me the most, is that the kid and his parents actually gave this a shot, but seeing how things are these days, I cannot quite blame them. A few months ago a friend's ex-boyfriend psyched out and gave her hell of night, which included assault and wanton destruction. (I think I wrote about it in the Quiet Place back then but never got around to elaborate how things turned out.)

Guess what? He got away with it. Nobody pressed charges, he wasn't fined for the damaged property and even worse, while quite a few people know what happened, they act and treat him like it didn't, despite him not showing a shred of believable remorse.

So this is how society is supposed to work out? Sociopaths stepping on people, while counting on everyone else to be too apathetic to take the consequences necessary?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Article

Messner is a big boy. He was 15 at the time he was brought into the woods to see the homeless man his friends had been beating. Even at that young age, he outweighed the victim, Michael Roberts, by 200 pounds when he jumped on his chest, crushing his ribcage. Roberts died.

He *outweighs* the victim (hobo) by 200lb. Outweighs, folks. That's even bigger... That is a whole lot of weight '~' Probably weighs ~300-350lb or so... This guy's knockers are undoubtedly larger than most porn stars'. Folks in prison are gonna have fun with him once he "graduates" from juvy.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus XIII

What startles me the most, is that the kid and his parents actually gave this a shot, but seeing how things are these days, I cannot quite blame them. A few months ago a friend's ex-boyfriend psyched out and gave her hell of night, which included assault and wanton destruction. (I think I wrote about it in the Quiet Place back then but never got around to elaborate how things turned out.)

Guess what? He got away with it. Nobody pressed charges, he wasn't fined for the damaged property and even worse, while quite a few people know what happened, they act and treat him like it didn't, despite him not showing a shred of believable remorse.

So this is how society is supposed to work out? Sociopaths stepping on people, while counting on everyone else to be too apathetic to take the
consequences necessary?

of course they gave it a shot, most parents these days have the parenting skills of a brick. most parents are stupid and think their little angels can do no wrong. so what can we really expect?

How ya doing, buddy?