[Tournament] 2008-09 NHL season discussion thread

Originally Posted by Axelrod :punch: Axelrod

As far as home ice advantage goes, well, besides potential lost revenue which owners would certainly have an issue with, do you know how many times the team with home ice has won the cup in the last ten playoffs? That's right. Ten. How about the last twenty playoffs? Sixteen. Good luck convincing anyone that is involved with hockey in any way that home ice is meaningless.

I'd like to know where you got your numbers, and how you derived that each series was won by the team who had home-ice advantage.

You know, just so everyone can see that I am still stupid.

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First off, until fairly recently MLB was two legally distinct leagues, and before home field advantage was given to the winner of the ASG it alternated between the National and American league team playing. The two situations are incomparable.

And why are they incomparable? The answer is not because of the DH.

How ya doing, buddy?

Are you joking? Is this a joke?

MLB had two legally and functionally distinct leagues. They had different rules, and until a little while ago, teams from the two didn't even play during the regular season. Under those circumstances, I would agree that winning one "division" of the sport shouldn't have any bearing on games played between teams from the two. Being in an easier division, for example, shouldn't reward you unduly (note that was also a concern with the increased divisional games in the NHL).

The NHL, however (with the exception of the last couple of misguided seasons, but that's being fixed) has a long history of inter-conference play. Teams' overall league placement has always been a direct result of their success against all teams, not just teams on their own side of the continent, and their success should be rewarded by being ranked higher than said other team.

MLB had a tradition of awarding the home field advantage to the team from each league alternating. I thought you were a baseball fan, but you obviously don't know anything about tradition at all, so I won't put you through what I had originally indended to say. It wasn't determined by anything on the field in the first place, so changing the method of awarding it doesn't in any way undermine players' efforts during the regular season. If you change the way it is awarded in the NHL, you are telling those players who worked hard during the regular season to secure the most points they were able to that their drive to succeed didn't mean anything because now a couple of goofballs in a ridiculous Junior B end-of-practice deke competition determined that they don't get home ice anymore.

As far as the numbers for home ice cup winners go, that information is all freely available on the internet. I will assume (and hope) that much like you possess the ability to use the index or the glossary of a book, you also possess the ability to search for answers on your own. It is a valuable skill. Please develop it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, the first thing I did after I read what you said was look at the last 8 Stanley Cup Finals. Sure enough, in 7 of the last 8 (the exception being the 2000 Cup Final) the winner was seeded 1-4, and in 6 of 8 cases the winner was a higher-ranked team than its opponent. So, again, I don't know where you got your numbers. My numbers differ. Ultimately, it doesn't prove a whole lot. Having home-ice/home-field/home-court advantage in pro sports is a tenuous concept at best, and is becoming decreasingly powerful with many new buildings being so similar to each other and crowds being tough to deal with regardless of whether it's the postseason or the regular season. Crowds just aren't as big a factor in the NHL as in, say, the NFL or the NBA, and if they were every team who had home-ice advantage in any series would win no matter what. Granted, MOST teams with home-ice advantage do win their series, but I take it with a grain of salt. It's all in the head.

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If you change the way it is awarded in the NHL, you are telling those players who worked hard during the regular season to secure the most points they were able to that their drive to succeed didn't mean anything because now a couple of goofballs in a ridiculous Junior B end-of-practice deke competition determined that they don't get home ice anymore.

Sounds to me like you don't enjoy the All-Star Game at all.

Regardless, your statement seems to contradict itself. What you're suggesting is winning more games in MLB isn't any different now than it was before they decided to have the ASG decide home-field advantage, but then you're suggesting that the opposite would be true for the NHL.

All I'm saying is if you give the game importance (even if it is benign in my mind, it isn't to most), the players will play like it's important and the fans will treat it like it's important. I realize I'm more optimistic than most people, but that's how I feel.

Of course, the irony is that the MLB ASG-World Series relationship was implemented not because of fan voting but of what happened on the field, which may have happened again this year.

I was speaking idiomatically.

New Jersey was just a lower seed in conference play. They finished the season with more points than Dallas, and had home ice in that series. Your numbers are wrong.

Thanks for playing.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

And the Devils won more games on the road (3) than they did at home in that series. Same with the Eastern Conference final, and they were playing against a higher-ranked opponent (#1 Flyers).

Thank YOU for playing.

FELIPE NO

Well darn, my memory was off regarding one playoff series from a decade ago. The home team still wins the majority of the games. It doesn't matter if it's all in the head, because it's in the head of the players. Sports (which you might know, if you had tried any beyond "see how many Krispy Kremes I can fit in my mouth at once") have everything to do with the mentality of the players.

It will never change.

How ya doing, buddy?

Ooh, fat jokes. That's new. Of course I could tell you I have done my share of athletics before but there's nothing to prove it so why bother.

I am glad however that we both made our sides of the argument known with only one insult thrown between us. Maybe next time we could shoot for zero, that way one of us might be able to make a more compelling argument without stooping to such depths.

Spoiler:

too much to ask, I know

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Thought I'd chime in the NHL thread here since I'm from Hockeytown...

The Wings are incredible. Such experienced players, they never seem to get high or low no matter what the score is. It seems they have the most confidence in the league, and its well earned.

The Sharks could be a great playoff team this year though. Adding two defensemen was quite a brilliant move and D wins championships. I know theres going to be tons of talk about "Will the Sharks prove everyone wrong about being playoff chokers?" but that talk probably won't matter to them considering the high scoring D and highly effective D. Also they have a top 10 goalie with playoff experience and the Wings just have a backup and also Osgood who is either an up or a down goalie depending on the situation.

Boston seems great in the east but I hear talk about how their "bubble will explode". I guess we'll see. Hopefully the 3rd round will be them against Montreal, and Boston will want revenge for last years series and I hope they make it to the finals since my dads family was from Boston.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I will laugh if the Sharks make the Finals. Who would they bring out for their ceremonial puck drops? Who would they fete as their all-time great players? Pat Falloon? Owan Nolan? Sandis Ozolinsh? Arturs Irbe? Jeff Friesen? Marco Sturm? (See how well that'll go over if they end up facing the Bruins. )

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

One thing I can say that works in the Sharks favor is that almost all the time when a team has to take a long West Coast trip they have to face the Sharks after having played the night before so they are tired and the Sharks get an easy win.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Penguins fans are feeling around in the dark, looking for the floor right now. It can't come soon enough, and I don't think it will come without any trades or firings.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Good time to be a Bruins fan.

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Originally Posted by The Dopefish

Penguins fans are feeling around in the dark, looking for the floor right now. It can't come soon enough, and I don't think it will come without any trades or firings.

Welcome back to the X-Generation

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Originally Posted by The Dopefish

Penguins fans are feeling around in the dark, looking for the floor right now. It can't come soon enough, and I don't think it will come without any trades or firings.

I really didn't have much trouble finding it.

Though, to be honest, it's not all that hard when it comes right up to you and whacks you in the face.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Shero came out and said he wasn't going to make any trades.

Penguins not going for trades

Which sucks because the Pens have players who do nothing but waste our time (Miroslav Satan).

How ya doing, buddy?

He makes up for it with the boost in ticket sales he provides among female fans. The man's a bona fide ladykiller.





There's nowhere I can't reach.

Shero's right, moving players for the sake of moving them isn't going to be beneficial in both the short-term and long-term.

For what it's worth, Satan and Staal are second and fourth on the team in points after the Superpowers. At lot of the guys are underperforming for whatever reason and it is more likely due to a lack of motivation (which should be coming from behind the bench). Therrien has never felt comfortable for me and I don't think he'll be around by the time the season comes to an end.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Capo

He makes up for it with the boost in ticket sales he provides among female fans. The man's a bona fide ladykiller.

Pictures of Miroslav Satan are illegal in one state (New York) and one Canadian province (Alberta), and legislation is currently being discussed in the Pennsylvania congress.

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It'll never fly. Not with Jay Costa and Mike Doyle there. The right to see hockey players in all their shirtless glory is a right that shall not be infringed upon, and they'll fight to the death to make sure the same is true for our children. And our children's children.

Imagine your son never being able to see this picture:



A life without Penguins and with shirts is not a life I'd like to lead.

How ya doing, buddy?

Haha Mad Max is such a pimp.

If the Pens are going to shake up anything on the bench (which they should) I'm thinking it'll be Mike Yeo to go first. Pens have been 0 for the last 32 power play attempts and that just can't continue.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Well, here we are, All-Star break. Definitely two of the biggest surprises in the NHL are in the Eastern Conference and they are the Bruins and the Penguins.

Boston is threatening to break their record for points in a single-season while challenging San Jose for the President's Trophy, and are currently doing it in dominating fashion. They are second in the league in goals for and first in goals against, and Tim Thomas and Manny Fernandez are both in the top four in goals against average and save percentage. The depth in both the scoring lines and the defensive six, plus the Baby B's stepping up, have been so key for this team. Will they hold it together for a good Cup run? I figure they will at least make the Conference finals. (Sorry, Deni...I don't want to get TOO optimistic here.)

As for my team, the Penguins, they are the definition of average this season. Despite having the top two scorers in the league, their goaltending and defense have been (what else?) shoddy. They need Fleury to find the rhythm he had in the latter part of last season or they might not even get into contention.

In fact, everyone needs to get their act together. I'm looking at you, JORDAN STAAL. They didn't re-up you because you're cute.

I mean, that might have been part of it.

Did you see the picture of Satan up above? YEESH.

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