[360] Xbox 360 Discussion. Thermal paste, the delicious and nutricious snack of the future.

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

What. Since when was the DS Lite a "required upgrade?" I'm still perfectly happy with my regular ol' DS, and have no desire to get a Lite. As trivial as the Zephyr revision may end up being, DS -> DS Lite is still nowhere near in the same league. Plus, it's just a bit more expensive to be replacing a 360.

Although being the least expensive, GBA -> GBASP is still probably the most "required" of any revision.

Perhaps required was the wrong word. There is such a quality upgrade between the regular DS and the DS Lite that I, personally, found it to be a "required" upgrade. The new hardware, at least to me, was so significantly better than I considered it a "required" purchase. Something I would willingly pay money for, you know. That sort of thing.

And I'm obviously saying that this transation won't be in the same league. Unless there are more features or changes announced that I would enjoy and would feel comfortable putting money down on, like a new colour, or more USB ports for more wired controllers and peripherals, and so forth and so on. Hence the "maybe".

Quote:

Well, yes, if you include the 3 that were only released in Japan, but most were so minor that the majority of PS2 owners didn't know about them. And the major revision (the slim, obviously), didn't happen nearly as early in the PS2's life span.

That's sort of my point. If it's an extremely minor revision, I probably won't care enough to pick up the new unit. If it's more major, like the slim, or like the Lite, then yeah, I probably will.

Let me put it in one small sentence that's easy for EVERYONE to understand:

If there are more significant changes, yes, I'll buy it. If the only difference is the HDMI port and the cooler processor, then yeah, I might not.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

My point being, however, that while the changes made to the DS Lite were purely aesthetic, there's actually better hardware in the Zephyr. It's not that much better from what we've seen so far, but it's still a bit of a slap in the face to anyone who payed $400-$500 for a slightly inferior 360 barely more than a year ago. Had the slim PS2 been released hardly longer than a year after the launch of the PS2, you can bet a lot more people would have been unhappy about it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

My point being, however, that while the changes made to the DS Lite were purely aesthetic, there's actually better hardware in the Zephyr. It's not that much better from what we've seen so far, but it's still a bit of a slap in the face to anyone who payed $400-$500 for a slightly inferior 360 barely more than a year ago. Had the slim PS2 been released hardly longer than a year after the launch of the PS2, you can bet a lot more people would have been unhappy about it.

Actually the PS2 did have quite a few upgrades only a year or two after it's release. In addition to a more efficient and cooler processor (like the Zephyr) it gained progressive scan output for the DVD player and included the online adaptor as well as fixes for issues with PS1 games. Also, the additional brightness settings on the DS Lite allowed you to play under lighting conditions that would've been impossible on the original DS. I think those changes were somewhat more substantial than what we're seeing on the Zephyr.

Regardless, I still don't see how this is really a slap in the face when it doesn't impare current Xbox 360 owners from doing anything with their console (i.e. no games or features would require something that doesn't come with the original consoles). Functionality-wise, the only thing that it allows for that isn't on the Xbox 360 is the HDMI port, but they never had any plans for that on the original model to begin with...in fact it might have been impossible for HDMI to be added to the original Xbox 360 since I'm not sure if the A/V out supports a digital signal.

And since when is this releasing "barely a year" after the Xbox 360 came out? There isn't even any confirmation of this, let alone date of release...I doubt we'll see it within the next month or two. In fact they recently reported that the CPU for the 65nm Xbox 360 wouldn't start to be manufactured until the middle of this year: http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/28/65nm_xbox360_cpu/

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Solis

Actually the PS2 did have quite a few upgrades only a year or two after it's release. In addition to a more efficient and cooler processor (like the Zephyr) it gained progressive scan output for the DVD player and included the online adaptor as well as fixes for issues with PS1 games.

Yes, we've mentioned them. I pity anyone who used a PS2 as a DVD player, and LOL PS2 online play. For PS1 games, you could have either bought another PS2, or for flawless play, bought a much cheaper PS1. Hmm...

Originally Posted by Solis

Also, the additional brightness settings on the DS Lite allowed you to play under lighting conditions that would've been impossible on the original DS. I think those changes were somewhat more substantial than what we're seeing on the Zephyr.

Um, there's no lighting conditions under which it is impossible to play the DS, be it broad daylight or pitch black. Unless maybe you're shining a headlight on the screen/in your face, but I doubt the Lite would help in that regard.

Originally Posted by Solis

Regardless, I still don't see how this is really a slap in the face when it doesn't impare current Xbox 360 owners from doing anything with their console (i.e. no games or features would require something that doesn't come with the original consoles). Functionality-wise, the only thing that it allows for that isn't on the Xbox 360 is the HDMI port, but they never had any plans for that on the original model to begin with...in fact it might have been impossible for HDMI to be added to the original Xbox 360 since I'm not sure if the A/V out supports a digital signal.

Like I said in my first post on the subject, it all depends on the 120GB HD being available to older 360's. Even if it is, early adopters have probably already overpaid for the 20GB HD; now they'll need to pay more if they want a decent sized one (not to mention they'll also probably have to buy a memory card to transfer saves). I bet a helluva lot more people would have waited longer if they knew this was coming so soon.

It begs the question, though: if they already charge $100 for a 20 gig hard drive, how much is the 120 going to be?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they use this opportunity to add a built-in HDDVD drive, but we'll have to wait and see about that.

Originally Posted by Solis

And since when is this releasing "barely a year" after the Xbox 360 came out? There isn't even any confirmation of this, let alone date of release...I doubt we'll see it within the next month or two. In fact they recently reported that the CPU for the 65nm Xbox 360 wouldn't start to be manufactured until the middle of this year: http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/28/65nm_xbox360_cpu/

"But our very kind Xbox insider seemed happy to let us know we'd be able to get them 'soon.'"

Depends on what they mean by "soon," of course, but the term generally doesn't apply to more than a few months. The real question is, which is more reliable, Engadget's "Xbox insider" or TG Daily's "industry sources?" Either way, any time this year or next is probably too early to not piss people off.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It's a real kick in the ass that it's coming out this soon to people who already have them of course, but seeing how major the enhancements are I think it's better for MS to release it sooner rather then later to save them from pissing more people off, especially seeing how 360's are going to be on 24/7 once HALO3 comes out.

Likely enhancements:
Better processor
Better & quieter cooling system

Known enhancements:
HDMI Port
Larger HDD

Wishful enhancements:
HD-DVD drive

Here's some speculation made by the public & GameSpot;
http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_bl...74&sid=6163826

And here's video proof that the Xbox 365 is REAL;
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=32321

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

Like I said in my first post on the subject, it all depends on the 120GB HD being available to older 360's. Even if it is, early adopters have probably already overpaid for the 20GB HD; now they'll need to pay more if they want a decent sized one (not to mention they'll also probably have to buy a memory card to transfer saves). I bet a helluva lot more people would have waited longer if they knew this was coming so soon.

Again, I ask, how does this affect CURRENT owners of the console in a negative way? The people that bought an Xbox 360 KNEW it came with a 20GB harddrive, so why does it matter that one with a larger harddrive is being released later? Would you really prefer that they DON'T offer upgraded features as soon as they can be made available and instead wait a year or two to somehow appease earlier console owners...despite the fact that releasing it later rather than sooner benefits noone? But I don't see how the 20GB drive isn't "decent sized", what in the world would require you to have 120GB of space?

The only thing that would have been better is if they had informed people earlier that they're going to be releasing an upgraded Xbox 360 in the near future, but since we have no idea when this is going to be released, I think it's a little early to say that they haven't given us advanced warning or that they're releasing it too soon.

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Um, there's no lighting conditions under which it is impossible to play the DS, be it broad daylight or pitch black. Unless maybe you're shining a headlight on the screen/in your face, but I doubt the Lite would help in that regard.

Anytime I try to play outside or in a vehicle during the day when there's a decent amount of sunlight shining on the screen, it's virtually impossible to see. And the brighter screen brings out more details and a clearer overall image, which is something that will always affect your experience every time you play. On the other hand, none of these apparantly Xbox 360 upgrades will have much of an affect on the games themselves.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Solis

what in the world would require you to have 120GB of space?

As Microsoft tries to expand the content available through the Live service to include movie and tv show downloads, I can see where 120 gig drives could be useful.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Also if there is more content like the Ghost Recon AW expansion pack which was around 1.2 Gigs for future games your 12Gigs (because you don't get access to 8Gigs) will run out fast. Also Final Fantasy 11 takes something like 3 or 4 Gigs itself too. However the whole HDD thing was a scam from the get go when they advertised that you get a 20Gig HDD but don't tell you that you really only get to use 12Gigs. Heck for the price of a 12Gig HDD for my 360 I could get a 120Gig HDD for my PS3, MS isn't being too competitive now are they?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by evilboris

To add fuel to the rumor fire, check the bottom entry on this japanese x360 release list:
http://www.g-rev.com/Schedule/Xbox360/Jp/schedule.html

(note: that bottom entry is infact Radiant Silvergun 3)

Moreover;

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156213

Quote:

Treasure Talks 360, Wii, and PS3
We interview Treasure about its plans for the next generation.

1UP: So when will we finally see your 360 project?
MM: I can't talk much about it yet, but I will say that it's an original shooting title and that it won't be released for a while. I hope we can start showing and talking about it soon, though.

1UP: A lot of Treasure fans are wondering if the game will be in the style of Radiant Silvergun or Ikaruga. Can you comment on that?
MM: It's actually still early enough in the project that we don't yet know how similar it will be to those games. I'm thinking we'll probably want to go in a bit of a new direction now, though.

1UP: But it's at least still a top-down shooter, right?
MM: Yeah. We'll use really great 3D graphics but it will retain the 2D gameplay people love.

1UP: So is this the same team that did Ikaruga?
MM: Yes, the same director and team.

1UP: So would you consider it a new game in Radiant Silvergun "series"? Even though Ikaruga wasn't technically a sequel to Radiant Silvergun, it was the spiritual successor.
MM: I would say no, actually. I know what you mean about Ikaruga being a spiritual successor and I would have to say that this game is totally different.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Solis

Again, I ask, how does this affect CURRENT owners of the console in a negative way? The people that bought an Xbox 360 KNEW it came with a 20GB harddrive, so why does it matter that one with a larger harddrive is being released later? Would you really prefer that they DON'T offer upgraded features as soon as they can be made available and instead wait a year or two to somehow appease earlier console owners...despite the fact that releasing it later rather than sooner benefits noone? But I don't see how the 20GB drive isn't "decent sized", what in the world would require you to have 120GB of space?

The only thing that would have been better is if they had informed people earlier that they're going to be releasing an upgraded Xbox 360 in the near future, but since we have no idea when this is going to be released, I think it's a little early to say that they haven't given us advanced warning or that they're releasing it too soon.

As if Microsoft didn't know about this well before launch, although it was obviously in their best business interest not to mention it. But hey, if you think paying $100 for a 20... no, wait, apparently 12... gig hard drive, and then having to pay even more for a bigger one not more than a few years later because your first one filled up far more quickly than it should have is a good deal, then that's your opinion.

Now, if the 120GB HD ends up actually costing ~$600, then there's a different problem here entirely. But somehow, I doubt that will be the case.

Anyways, it's not so much the people who bought one at launch I feel sorry for - it's obviously risky to get a launch console these days, and they've had more time with it. It the loads of people who only recently got one for Gears of War or for Christmas that should be angered by this. I think it's a safe bet that they wouldn't have sold nearly as well last holiday season if this had been known then.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

I think it's more a pissing match with Sony than anything else. That, and the bigger number always looks more impressive to the average consumer. "I'm not entirely sure what a hard drive is, but does the 120 jiggabytes make the console twice as good as one with 60 jiggabytes?"

"Why yes sir, yes it does."

I really, truly, totally wish that that wasn't the case. But unfortunately, that is the case. There are far too many people spending a lot of money on things that they don't even understand, and it's disheartening.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Slayer X

Also if there is more content like the Ghost Recon AW expansion pack which was around 1.2 Gigs for future games your 12Gigs (because you don't get access to 8Gigs) will run out fast. Also Final Fantasy 11 takes something like 3 or 4 Gigs itself too. However the whole HDD thing was a scam from the get go when they advertised that you get a 20Gig HDD but don't tell you that you really only get to use 12Gigs. Heck for the price of a 12Gig HDD for my 360 I could get a 120Gig HDD for my PS3, MS isn't being too competitive now are they?

14 gigs available, actually. I hardly think not being able to use a PC harddrive for a console suddenly makes it "not competitive". More storage space isn't something which is either a selling point (at least it shouldn't be) or requirement for games. And I hardly think it's a "scam" to advertise 20GB when the extra space is taken up by data caches that are required for games. Same way a typical PC advertises a "100GB" harddrive but then has 2GB taken up from the binary conversion, 2GB taken up by Windows, 1GB taken up by virtual memory, 5GB taken up by a recovery sector, etc.

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

As if Microsoft didn't know about this well before launch, although it was obviously in their best business interest not to mention it. But hey, if you think paying $100 for a 20... no, wait, apparently 12... gig hard drive, and then having to pay even more for a bigger one not more than a few years later because your first one filled up far more quickly than it should have is a good deal, then that's your opinion.

Now, if the 120GB HD ends up actually costing ~$600, then there's a different problem here entirely. But somehow, I doubt that will be the case.

Anyways, it's not so much the people who bought one at launch I feel sorry for - it's obviously risky to get a launch console these days, and they've had more time with it. It the loads of people who only recently got one for Gears of War or for Christmas that should be angered by this. I think it's a safe bet that they wouldn't have sold nearly as well last holiday season if this had been known then.

I still don't see how you're "required" to get a new harddrive as soon as you fill up the old one. Everything that takes up space on the harddrive aside from gamesaves and soundtracks can be redownloaded from the marketplace, so it isn't absolutely vital to be a packrat with the harddrive. If you were required to install data to the harddrive to play games, then it would be a much bigger issue, but the only game that requires that is Final Fantasy XI and every other game just uses the space that's already set aside on the harddrive for that purpose.

Yes, obviously the harddrive is a ripoff. Console (and handheld) storage formats are always going to be horrible for the price. $35 for 8MB PS2 cards, $25 for 512k Gamecube cards (then $30 for 2MB cards a year later, then $35 for 8MB cards another year later), $80 for 2GB PSP memory sticks, etc. At least the current Xbox 360 harddrive is large enough that most people won't have a problem with NEEDING to get another one as soon as they fill up, which I really can't say the same for about other consoles (the 20GB PS3 should be fine though as long as you're willing to delete the install data for games).

But like you said, it's more of a pissing match with Sony. 95% of Xbox 360 owners probably aren't even using up half the harddrive, but being able to slap a "120GB" on the box makes it look more impressive sitting next to a 60GB PS3 that costs $200 more. It isn't something that's supposed to attract educated consumers as much as it's supposed to sway people that are debating between the two consoles and look at which has the bigger numbers. Compared to a price drop (which was probably the only other option they were considering), it doesn't really screw over current owners any more than the alternative. And weren't a lot of people expecting a price drop soon anyway? I figured they'd have one within a few months after the holidays were over.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I said this when the 360 came out, and I'll say it again, they should have waited and spent the extra time making sure that the console was ready to go out the door before releasing it. Instead we got a system that had a 16% launch failure rate, noisy as hell fans, crappy cooling system, and who knows what other corners they cut just to get it out the door... and they didn't even have all that great of games for launch that you couldn't just get on the PC or original X-box. Where as Sony & Nintendo might have taken longer, but their systems are much better designed.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Slayer X

I said this when the 360 came out, and I'll say it again, they should have waited and spent the extra time making sure that the console was ready to go out the door before releasing it. Instead we got a system that had a 16% launch failure rate, noisy as hell fans, crappy cooling system, and who knows what other corners they cut just to get it out the door... and they didn't even have all that great of games for launch that you couldn't just get on the PC or original X-box. Where as Sony & Nintendo might have taken longer, but their systems are much better designed.

The PS3 is not better designed at all. My PS3 experienced the red light of doom in the second week of owning it. The PS3 is bigger then the original xbox for gods sake. Luckily, i didn't have to go through much hassle in returing it and getting my cash back as i didn't want another PS3 as their is no exclusive games worth getting in the near future. let's not forget that the PS3 has the worst batch of launch-titles ever seen for any console launch.

I've had my 360 since launch and i've yet to have any over-heating problems and the fan isn't that loud unless your television is on mute. I'm a little dismayed by the recent rumours about a better, sleeker, 360. Although, it isn't enough to piss me off as the main reason for owning a console is the videogames and so far i've gotten plenty of fun outta of the 360; more then any other console this year.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Solis

I still don't see how you're "required" to get a new harddrive as soon as you fill up the old one. Everything that takes up space on the harddrive aside from gamesaves and soundtracks can be redownloaded from the marketplace, so it isn't absolutely vital to be a packrat with the harddrive. If you were required to install data to the harddrive to play games, then it would be a much bigger issue, but the only game that requires that is Final Fantasy XI and every other game just uses the space that's already set aside on the harddrive for that purpose.

I was under the impression that a lot of 360 owners were already annoyed with having to juggle data, and weren't looking forward to having to do it more once there's more movies and TV shows available through Live. Not that such reports are never exaggerations, though...

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Compared to a price drop (which was probably the only other option they were considering), it doesn't really screw over current owners any more than the alternative. And weren't a lot of people expecting a price drop soon anyway? I figured they'd have one within a few months after the holidays were over.

My guess is that the price drop will coincide with the launch of a $500 Zephyr. Similarly, at the same time the new hard drive will probably be available for $100, and the 20 gig drive will drop in price. If they can manage to do that any time around the launch of Halo 3, that would seem to be the sweet spot.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The HDMI port sounds really nice, though the main reason I'm getting it is new cooling. Bigger HD is meh.
Too bad it was pushed to Q3, I was really looking forward to playing GoW this spring.
Oldie news.

This may collide conveniently with the release of Assassin's Creed? =)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I bought the X360 just over a month ago, though my TV doesn't even have a HDMI port so I can't say I care, but might if the console is overpriced still in a few years when I get my next TV...

That said, as long as the HDD is no more than about $100 or so with the 20GB model getting a price drop, I'll deal with it.



This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm getting a 360 in a few days and I was wondering if there's a way to find out when the system was manufactured. I'm going to try to get new one on eBay, but I don't want to buy one from the first batch even if it is new. Is there a number (serial number maybe) that I could ask the seller for so that I know around when the unit was manufactured?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Is there a reason you can't just buy it from a store?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Of course there will be. Ask him. He should give it to you, if he is legit AND provide you a pic of the number.

CLOSED.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

This thing, http://www.joystiq.com/2004/12/16/xbox-indentifier/ , should be able to tell you all sorts of things, just by putting in the serial number. I haven't tried it, but it's worht a shot, I guess.

FELIPE NO

Ah okay. I was just wondering what I needed to ask for and how to find out the manufacturing date. Thanks. And about the store, it's sometimes cheaper on eBay although I might just go to the store if the difference isn't that significant.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

They include the warranty that they got with the system when selling on eBay. Well, some of them. You know what, I think I'm just going to go to the store. =P

Jam it back in, in the dark.

They may say they include it, but I believe that warranty only covers the "original retail purchaser", which is definitely not you, if you buy it on eBay.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Gotcha, mo0. Anyone using a wireless adapter to connect with their 360? If so, can you recommend a good one or should I simply go with the Microsoft one even if it is overpriced.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.