[PS2] Ace Combat Thread (a.k.a. We Do Not Have Air Superiority)

Yes, Belka dropped nukes to stop the Allied Advance into the northern territory of Belka. This was answered in both AC5 and ACZ. I just assumed it was common knowledge.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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I'm not gonna lie, the AC stories aren't really that great, but keep in mind, this isn't the type of game that even cares about a story.

That's not true at all. Since 3, they've learned their lesson to implement stories and make sure they're deep and interwoven with the game, so I dont know what you're talking about, but that statement is totally untrue.


And for the record, no it wasn't Osea that dropped seven nukes, it was Right-Wing Military leaders who dropped them telling the world the north part of Belka was the 'Holy Land'.

FELIPE NO

Oh yeah? How many other airplane games have good stories?

That's right none.

I'm talking outside of the series of course.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Stealth

I'm not gonna lie, the AC stories aren't really that great, but keep in mind, this isn't the type of game that even cares about a story.

This isn't a genre you'd expect a good story in, as you've mentioned, but ever since AC04 (never had a chance to play the Japanese version of AC3) I've raised the bar for Ace Combat. It's actually a good chunk of why I buy these games, because none of 'em have ever been that difficult.

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That being said, I don't think Osea dropping nuclear weapons on Belka would make any sense. At that time, they were already advancing into the northern territory of Belka, the war was sure to be over very soon. There would be no strategical value to dropping nuclear weapons on Belka. In fact, this would have only hurt them because it stopped their advance into the northern territory for a while.

First things first, Stealth, I know the official story about "stopping the Allied advance" as mentioned in AC5. It's just hard to buy when said advance, as seen in Stage of Apocalypse, consists of four fighters. Surely you'd feel more shock and awe if the nuke came at the end of a mission like Whiskey Corridor in AC04, wiping out all friendly ground forces just as they began to claim victory...

Anyhow, my Osean-nuke theory was just a bit of speculation I nurtured between games in my quiet hope that there'd be some kind of "I am your father" moment in ACZ, that all of these allusions about the Yuktobanian presence in the Belkan War and the mysterious influence of the Grey Men would actually come to something. Obviously there isn't and I'll live, but it's still a shade disappointing.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Who said that they didn't have ground forces closing in on all the locations? It would be quite stupid to think that Belka launched 7 Nuclear strikes to down a couple of fighters.

And please, the AC04 story wasn't really that impressive, it's the presentation of the story that is the true gem of AC04.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

On that note, I agree with Stealth. I dont get why everyone fanboys off of AC04, when clearly AC5 in terms of story and depth is more dominant.

And about the bombs...well first, Belka wanted to hold the allies in place, and two, the military didn't want the country to be overrun so easily and they wanted the whole world to see how fierce and powerful they can be. Lets also not forget...the huge bomber did have the markings of Belka on it. Maybe it was going to be used for the country, and but somehow during the six month quiet period, the rebel team got ahold of it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Karasu

On that note, I agree with Stealth. I dont get why everyone fanboys off of AC04, when clearly AC5 in terms of story and depth is more dominant.

People fanboy off AC04 because to do so off AC5 is an embarrassment. Give me silent, competent allies who advance the story by doing their jobs any day of the week over Nagase. Of course AC04 isn't quite as epic a war story as AC5, but you're not constantly getting pulled out of it by lines like "Man, this is the worst day ever!" when you blow up a bunker in Lit Fuse or "Where'd he learn to fly like that?" when you execute a 60-degree turn in Final Option.

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And about the bombs...well first, Belka wanted to hold the allies in place, and two, the military didn't want the country to be overrun so easily and they wanted the whole world to see how fierce and powerful they can be. Lets also not forget...the huge bomber did have the markings of Belka on it. Maybe it was going to be used for the country, and but somehow during the six month quiet period, the rebel team got ahold of it.

Again, I really do know the official line. It simply doesn't make much sense...which, per the game's overall perspective on war, might just be the point.

And the Hresvelgr's nonexistent backstory is another symptom of the numerous narrative failures in ACZ. The thing would mean a lot more if it had simply been presented as the first bid for power of the Grey Men, but instead we get a second underdeveloped shadow organization (AWWNB) that also fails to explain where the Hresvelgr came from. I assumed that the Sapin Air Force fielded it as part of a power grab for the resources in B7R until it was identified as part of the coup forces, suggesting AWWNB built it themselves, but there's a wallpaper on acecombat.jp showing it in the giant Belkan hangar at Mt. Schirm...which supports the "AWWNB stole it" theory, but this is all incredibly convoluted compared to the Arkbird's introduction. Then again, perhaps that's not fair since the Arkbird didn't, you know, get introduced in the same mission it was destroyed.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Stealth

Who said that they didn't have ground forces closing in on all the locations? It would be quite stupid to think that Belka launched 7 Nuclear strikes to down a couple of fighters.

I know. That'd be almost as stupid as, well, not depicting any of the aforementioned ground forces. Obviously doing so within flyable airspace would be impossible, as much because of the PS2's technical limitations as because you'd laugh if you were orbiting ground zero at detonation and nothing happened to you, but even a line or two of radio dialogue from the ground forces would have immensely helped.

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And please, the AC04 story wasn't really that impressive, it's the presentation of the story that is the true gem of AC04.

Granted. But a good story presented well beats a great story presented poorly, hence my comments about ACZ.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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People fanboy off AC04 because to do so off AC5 is an embarrassment. Give me silent, competent allies who advance the story by doing their jobs any day of the week over Nagase. Of course AC04 isn't quite as epic a war story as AC5, but you're not constantly getting pulled out of it by lines like "Man, this is the worst day ever!" when you blow up a bunker in Lit Fuse or "Where'd he learn to fly like that?" when you execute a 60-degree turn in Final Option.

That's bullshit. 'Embarrassment'?? Why, because the real point in the story of AC5 was to be harmonic and peaceful with each other in the world? That's embarrassing? That's such crap dude. No one here is disagreeing that Chopper got annoying, hell even Nagase felt that way...but Nagase, just as much as another person 'doesn't want to see anymore young men or women lose their lives', especially if it's over a war that had no meaning but to exhaust each other's power so another could gain superiority. How sick is that? Would you want a war based on such superficial things? Lives wasted because of old war vendettas from years ago? THAT is what Nagase meant, she didn't want to see people in the war she's in, die in vain. I am proud of AC5's message and proud to be a big fan of that game. It was a wargame with a message, and I think it's something we all should listen to.


AC04's story was based from a kid's perspective of the war and how he was in it. Mobius One, in a way...wasn't the real main character. It was just a basic story though, like AC2's. A group forced out of Usea, trying to reclaim it so the continent can be peaceful once again. There ya go. Linear as can get.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Karasu

AC04's story was based from a kid's perspective of the war and how he was in it. Mobius One, in a way...wasn't the real main character. It was just a basic story though, like AC2's. A group forced out of Usea, trying to reclaim it so the continent can be peaceful once again. There ya go. Linear as can get.

This is why AC2 >>>>>>> AC4 any day.

I don't see what the deal over the story is, really. If you play through it all three times and actually listen and take in what you see and hear, then most questions are answered pretty easily.

I just with we could see what Gault 1 looked like. He was pretty awesome.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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Granted. But a good story presented well beats a great story presented poorly, hence my comments about ACZ.

On the contrary, I loved the way ACZ's story was presented.

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Again, I really do know the official line. It simply doesn't make much sense...which, per the game's overall perspective on war, might just be the point.

And the Hresvelgr's nonexistent backstory is another symptom of the numerous narrative failures in ACZ. The thing would mean a lot more if it had simply been presented as the first bid for power of the Grey Men, but instead we get a second underdeveloped shadow organization (AWWNB) that also fails to explain where the Hresvelgr came from. I assumed that the Sapin Air Force fielded it as part of a power grab for the resources in B7R until it was identified as part of the coup forces, suggesting AWWNB built it themselves, but there's a wallpaper on acecombat.jp showing it in the giant Belkan hangar at Mt. Schirm...which supports the "AWWNB stole it" theory, but this is all incredibly convoluted compared to the Arkbird's introduction. Then again, perhaps that's not fair since the Arkbird didn't, you know, get introduced in the same mission it was destroyed.

Every super weapon since Stonehenge has been poor because there is no intense buildup like they did with AC04. But I liked Excalibur quite a bit. Of course I have to agree, the XB-0 came out of nowhere.

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I know. That'd be almost as stupid as, well, not depicting any of the aforementioned ground forces. Obviously doing so within flyable airspace would be impossible, as much because of the PS2's technical limitations as because you'd laugh if you were orbiting ground zero at detonation and nothing happened to you, but even a line or two of radio dialogue from the ground forces would have immensely helped.

Remember, they were trying to close off the entire South Eastern front. Some of those nukes could have been more for strategic value then actually hitting Osean troops. It's not like they could send people across after it without radiation issues. It was meant to slow Osea down, and that's exactly what they did. They knew the war would end anyway.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Karasu

That's bullshit. 'Embarrassment'?? Why, because the real point in the story of AC5 was to be harmonic and peaceful with each other in the world? That's embarrassing? That's such crap dude. No one here is disagreeing that Chopper got annoying, hell even Nagase felt that way...but Nagase, just as much as another person 'doesn't want to see anymore young men or women lose their lives', especially if it's over a war that had no meaning but to exhaust each other's power so another could gain superiority. How sick is that? Would you want a war based on such superficial things? Lives wasted because of old war vendettas from years ago? THAT is what Nagase meant, she didn't want to see people in the war she's in, die in vain. I am proud of AC5's message and proud to be a big fan of that game. It was a wargame with a message, and I think it's something we all should listen to.

Damn, Karasu...don't you think you're overreacting a little? Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of moments in AC5 that make me feel warm and fuzzy, but there comes a point when soldiers engaged in combat generally shut up and concentrate on what they're doing. Nobody in Blaze's squadron, with the occasional exception of Grimm, ever hit that point. Eventually, it simply gets ham-handed: just how many times do you have to hear "Killing is immoral, pointless and wrong, except when you, me, he or she does it" to get the point?

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AC04's story was based from a kid's perspective of the war and how he was in it. Mobius One, in a way...wasn't the real main character. It was just a basic story though, like AC2's. A group forced out of Usea, trying to reclaim it so the continent can be peaceful once again. There ya go. Linear as can get.

Yes, but at least you got the sense that you actually were in a war. And the anti-war message was still there, just delivered with a hint of actual subtlety in the cutscenes rather than poured into your oxygen mask at random intervals.

Originally Posted by RayPrower

I don't see what the deal over the story is, really. If you play through it all three times and actually listen and take in what you see and hear, then most questions are answered pretty easily.

Sorry, Ray, but you asked for it:

Where was Yuktobania involved in the Belkan War on any level, let alone enough of one to make the Belkans want to nuke Okchabursk 15 years later?

How and why did the Grey Men come to be, and exactly what connection do they have with Belka? Were they a factor in what we see during ACZ?

Exactly when did the Rald Party take an active role in Belkan politics, and what if any influence did it have on the events of ACZ or AC5?

Just who were the Belkan bomber pilots in Stage of Apocalypse aligned with? Which faction of the Belkan government ordered them shot down? Were they merely decoys, or part of a larger strike plan? If the latter, why would they withdraw on the verge of success?

Who built the Hresvelgr, and for what purpose? Its Sapin escort craft still leave this point unclear.

What official involvement did the Kingdom of Sapin have, if any, with the coup?

What was the target of the V2 launched from Avalon?

That's a very quick-and-dirty list, none of which even begin to address your own questions regarding Kupchenko.

Originally Posted by Stealth

Every super weapon since Stonehenge has been poor because there is no intense buildup like they did with AC04. But I liked Excalibur quite a bit. Of course I have to agree, the XB-0 came out of nowhere.

It's also a product of the fact that every superweapon since Stonehenge has been far easier to deal with...>5000 feet for Yuke burst missiles versus <2000 for Stonehenge long-range fire, one huge orange targeting cone with 10-second delay for Excalibur versus wherever any of the seven operational guns are pointed at will for Stonehenge. That said, though, the Arkbird is the only opponent I ever feared in AC5; even before the story considerations it's sad to go directly from that to an overgrown B-2 that, unlike its inspiration, can be destroyed in flight by FAEBs.

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Remember, they were trying to close off the entire South Eastern front. Some of those nukes could have been more for strategic value then actually hitting Osean troops. It's not like they could send people across after it without radiation issues. It was meant to slow Osea down, and that's exactly what they did. They knew the war would end anyway.

But most modern tanks and APCs are NBC-survivable, so if they weren't directly hit they'd be able to button down and drive through the radiation...it'd certainly slow down everything else, although you have to remember from AC5 that if you've got four tanks, you've got an invasion.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by tajisdurmin

Sorry, Ray, but you asked for it:

Where was Yuktobania involved in the Belkan War on any level, let alone enough of one to make the Belkans want to nuke Okchabursk 15 years later?

The Yukes didn't play an active role, but more of a behind-the-scenes role, supplying the allies with weapons and other assorted supplies. The Axe & Hammer briefing infrastucture you see before each mission? Guess who made it.

That's right, Yuktobania. It's a play on Sickle and Hammer (since Yuktobania is the AC0 world equivalent of Russia). It's also ironic since the Axe & Hammer aren't really precision instruments in any sense of the word.

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How and why did the Grey Men come to be, and exactly what connection do they have with Belka? Were they a factor in what we see during ACZ?

Most of the Grey Men were disgruntled ex-Belkans who worked their way into other countries over the years. Shoot down Ashley (GRABACR) in Mission 10M and read his Assault Record. It plainly states he joined the Osean Air Force shortly after the Belkan War ended. Also recall that Ashley was the one Pops talked to over the radio in Final Option from AC5 about the Belkan War. Ashley shot down Pops and Bartlett, got shot down by the GALM team, then joined the Osean Air Force after the war to get into the country.

Hamilton's story was explained in AC5. The other GRABACR/OFNIR guys just followed their flight leads into it. So how did the Grey Men come about eh? I wonder, maybe it has something to do with the whole "infiltration and revenge" thing Genette mentioned in AC5? Proof you don't pay attention to the story.

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Exactly when did the Rald Party take an active role in Belkan politics, and what if any influence did it have on the events of ACZ or AC5?

I'm going to go with my guts and say they took power during Belkas economic depression (wasn't this explained in the story) and that their effect is no more than what you see at face value.

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Just who were the Belkan bomber pilots in Stage of Apocalypse aligned with? Which faction of the Belkan government ordered them shot down? Were they merely decoys, or part of a larger strike plan? If the latter, why would they withdraw on the verge of success?

The radio chatter during that mission proved that a lot of the units were fighting amongst themselves over what was about to happen. The attack was most likely ordered by the right wing party in power and the dissention was caused by pilots who didn't agree with the order. Can't tell ya if they were decoys or not.

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Who built the Hresvelgr, and for what purpose? Its Sapin escort craft still leave this point unclear.

The Sapin escorts merely joined AWWNB and were assigned to escort it on that one mission. The craft itself is assumedly Belkan made, as a replacement (or possibly compliment to if it was being made earlier) for the Excalibur. Stolen later by AWWNB.

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What official involvement did the Kingdom of Sapin have, if any, with the coup?

Outside of the few Air Force units that defected, there is no knowledge of Sapin being majorly involved.

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What was the target of the V2 launched from Avalon?

The V2 was a MIRV weapon, and we can safely assume it's target were largely just many capital cites and or border zones, in accord with AWWNBs mission.

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That's a very quick-and-dirty list, none of which even begin to address your own questions regarding Kupchenko.

I wanna know what got Kupchenko into being head director for them, but I do know that he was a weapons developer and a genius before the war. Since his details are so shrouded in mystery, I'm naturally curious for more.

But honestly I don't have too many gripes or questions about what happened in Zero. Anything else you'd like to ask?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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Damn, Karasu...don't you think you're overreacting a little? Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of moments in AC5 that make me feel warm and fuzzy, but there comes a point when soldiers engaged in combat generally shut up and concentrate on what they're doing. Nobody in Blaze's squadron, with the occasional exception of Grimm, ever hit that point. Eventually, it simply gets ham-handed: just how many times do you have to hear "Killing is immoral, pointless and wrong, except when you, me, he or she does it" to get the point?

Just because I say "Bullshit" doesn't mean in anyway that i'm overreacting. But you're telling me though it's an embarrasment to love AC5 over 4 because of the whole 'peace' thing. I'm sorry...but we do live in a world where there is a fake, vain war going on. I bet the writers of AC5 kinda played off of that, and brought their message in. I heard it, and I find it to be a positive message that should take heed. And if you forget....the Oseans have the Osean Air DEFENSE Force. Meaning, they attack when attacked upon. They are not agressors, and I found that to be rather noble. A superpower country such as Osea, plays diplomacy and defense before a battle and war.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Osea couldn't have dropped the nukes.

Remember that Pops was ordered to drop one of the nukes? Belkan orders.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Who were the 8492nd squadron durring the Belkan war?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Mobius One

Who were the 8492nd squadron durring the Belkan war?

There was no 8492 that early. The 8492 is the cover name used by the GRABACR Squadron, who were still active in the Belkain Air Force during AC0. It's only after the events of the Belkan War did they infiltrate the Osean Air Force and become the 8492.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Does anyone know when retailers actually began to start getting the Ace Combat Zero soundtrack in stock.

Was it yesterday.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I assume they have it in stock today and yesterday, but they don't actually start shipping until tomorrow.

Where did you order it from, Lith?

FELIPE NO

I ordered it from Play Asia a couple of hours ago. I don't know why I didn't pre-order it beforehand, and I'm just paranoid that I may not have gotten a first pressing, which is really irrational since it came out two days ago at the earliest.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, since you technically ordered it before it started shipping, I'd imagine that you will get a first printing. And considering FF12's OST comes out the same day, I doubt AC0 will get enough orders that you'd have to worry about it for quite some time, I bet.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Is it just me or is there some new/altered music in the NA release of the game?

Can't remember exactly when and where but I could have sworn the music that plays during the introduction movie sounded completely different from the japanese one.

How ya doing, buddy?

I felt that the sound quality had improved in the NA version, but the tracks are the same.

Also, the rip you made is actually slower sounding than the original tracks, so that might have something to do with it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I pre-ordered AC0's OST a month ago, and it was originally gonna come out on the 25th I think...then it got pushed to the 31st. So tomorrow, all places that have advertised it, should have it and should be shipping out. I got mine at yesasia.com

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I should have ordered from YA. I didn't know that they offered free shipping.

I was speaking idiomatically.

free shipping at yesasia only applies to items that are over 40$ I think...

I'm not complaining, it's only two bucks and it comes within a week, so it's all good.


EDIT: I stand corrected...I dont think i'm paying for any shipping. Just looked at the order online, and it says 0.00 at the shipping fee. Nice.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?