If there was a Final Fantasy Tactics 2...

I posted this on another site just for shits and giggles, and I figured I'd post it here as well, mainly for other people's opinions/ideas. Also because Final Fantasy Tactics was the greatest Final Fantasy game to come out, and not seeing a sequel is probably the largest crime against humanity (or at least me!) there is.

I figured I'd start this thread to share my ideas and see what you all thought, as well as to hopefully get new ones. Mainly as this is one of the greatest games in existence and they haven't made a true sequel to it (which is a huge crime against humanity in my opinion, ), I figure it'd be fun to muse what a second Tactics would be like.

I guess since I posted the thread, I'll start.

Locale:

I would like the game to stay in Ivalice, but much broader. Granted, I haven't experienced FFXII yet, so I can't comment on what they did to the world and how it crosses over with FFT, but I would like to see an expanded Ivalice with maybe even more to explore (kind of like Final Fantasy IV did with an underground and the lunar surface).

I would also like to see a world map to actually travel on, abolishing the linear style map jumping from point to point, using hotspots on the map to determine where the battles were to take place. Having explorable cities, dungeons, forests, etc. would just make for a far larger game.

Story:

I would like to see the story centralized around a war of sorts. A serious topic makes for a far more excellent game, and war stories always seem well done. It could be done far past the time of Ramza, or even directly following. I won't get into too specific, as the game could be done very well with any sort of storyline as long as it follows the way the first was written. Keep it human (ie. identifiable to those who play it), keep it serious (I hate "stuck in" humour, which is done so often in Hollywood movies. It just seems far-fetched to have it in there.)

Humor with ironic situations and such is alright, just don't overdo it. An example would be Gimli in the Lord of the Rings. His butt of every joke position seemed wrong, designed to bring laughs and lighten the mood, but in effect detracting from the overall experience of the movie. The story should be adult, dark, deep, gritty and above all real. Epic would be a great way to design it. The game should be based on the story, with the characters reacting to it, rather than the story centralized on the characters and having implausible situations happen around them.

I would definately go with more sidequests and such so that the game isn't so linear, with maybe more options on possible endings, depending on who you finished the game with or what quests you did. You could even have different bosses depending on the story branch you took, so that there is a different way to play the game through on a repeat performance.

Characters:

No Steiner characters please! Keep the characters fitting to the story. That said, I want a large cast, much like the first, all with their own backstories. I would rather stay away from the crappy cute/funny/pointless characters (Mog, Amarant, Quinna, etc.) They are alright to have as story elements as long as they are not too prevalent or overdone, but they are not good characters to base a team around. Ultimately 25 to 30 characters would be ideal (including hidden characters), with a list of up to 50 for created ones.

I would like the main character to be a competant person rather than a pretty boy, metrosexual character like Vaan and not a whiney suck like Tidus. I'm thinking more like a Cyan character overall, or General Leo, or Cecil of old.

Hidden characters, I do not care for as much. Seeing Cloud in the first game was a little unsettling, but I can see it was more fanservice than anything, and at least the story didn't centralize on that, and as well you didn't have to get him. But I would rather have hidden characters that are within the game itself and unlockable say with a new game plus sort of idea. Think of playing through Final Fantasy VI and upon beating the game, you had a chance to get General Leo, Seigfried, Banon, Vicks and Wedge even based on certain actions, or possible dialogue options that opened up in new game plus.

I would like to actually take out the monster egg and gaining monsters for your team, unless it was only 1 and a story based event. Having monsters constantly lay eggs and taking up slots for other characters was very annoying rather than neat, and the monsters overall served no purpose because they couldn't gain anything really from leveling up other than a couple of skills, not like characters.

Party and Fighting Area:

I would like the fighting area to be broadened. Think Shining Force like, but not quite that big. As well, I would like more options for limited battles, where you only got a couple of characters to take with you or even larger battles where you could take a ton. I would like to see split style maps, where you had to split your party beforehand and you had to reach an objective with one (or two) parties before the last could progress. Even having a split style for a while like in Final Fantasy VI where you split up your available party members to go in different directions in the story on the map for a while.

Having more meaning to traps and such would be interesting too, to make them more deadly or even more interesting would be neat, and it would give a need for skills to learn to counteract that.

Disgaea had a neat system for party assists and such. I would take that and broaden it to being able to set your characters to be offensive, defensive or middle, so that you could choose to defend a character if you knew he was going to be ganged up on. I would leave out the pyramid system/throwing system as that seems a little too far fetched for the game though.

I would like the map to be fully rotatable and scalable however.

Style:

I could go one of two ways I think. Either keep the same sprite-based design in the first, or else go full bore with fully 3D and more realistic looking characters. I know I wouldn't want the 3D superdeformed ones though (Final Fantasy VII overworld or the upcoming Final Fantasy III). They seem to detract from the serious nature of the story overall.

Using the 3D aspect would enable you to have equipped armor actually have a visual representation on the characters which would be nice too.

Gameplay:

I would definately keep the same style of gameplay. It wouldn't be Tactics without it. I would definately work on the "math" behind the game though. A lot of it was very "glitchy" as to what it displayed and what actually happened (like the percentages of attacking or being hit). I would like more to be done with the birthsigns/brave/faith though, to make them more important to the game somehow.

I would either get rid of the job ideas where you can go to a tavern to lose a character for a while to get something in return, or else I would make it far more in depth, where you can gain new abilities for that character to use (that wouldn't require a slot for example), or more hidden items/places/people and such to unlock through it. It was mostly pointless as it was in the first game, so it should go or either give it a reason to be there.

Classes and Skills:

This is where I would borrow an element from Disgaea and have upgradable classes. I would like more than just a palatte swap though, with having the upgradable classes be more unique from each other. It would also enable a way for you to have those classes that you saw in the game on other story characters but could never get yourself (like Holy Knight or Assassin or Dragon Knight, etc.).

I would like each individual class to have something about it that was more unique though, to give you a reason to play each class, beyond their inherent skillset. Plus you could give each class an ability that is unassignable to another class.

I would probably get rid of the certain sex only classes, just so that neither males nor females had some sort of inherent advantage over the other based on the classes they had access to. Or else I would make the sex only classes different in name only, but their abilities would remain identical.

I would like each created character to maybe get a special ability that is unique to them only as well, to make them feel truly unique (much like Ramza's Guts was different than every other squire's Guts). Make it random, and have a large set of these skills to draw from. Some could be inherent abilities that act passively (like an increase to attack or damage) or it could be a skill that you actively use (like a special attack that only he could do). Make each "list" of accessable skills separate for each class, so that only certain classes have access to certain skills.

You could have some classes and abilities only unlockable on new game plus as well, to give you more reason to play through it again.

Creatures:

I would like to have more variety in creatures definately, beyond just a palette swap. I would also like to see multiple tile sized enemies, so that they can be ganged up on, but it would also make things like Dragons/bosses seem more imposing and such.

New Game Plus:

This is definately something that is needed, but it needs to be expanded upon. You could have different stories show up to be followed, many new areas to explore, new items, new abilities, new classes etc, as well as unlockable characters to use that would give you more reason to play through the game.

Keeping your characters the same level would be nice, but if the cap is only 99, you would probably max out pretty quick, so maybe upping it every new game plus might be neat (although keeping the enemies challenging would be necessary too). Going Disgaea's route might be overkill, unless the enemies can get radically tougher.

Well, I think that's all I've got for now, so tell me what you think, or how you would do the game yourself.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Final Fantasy Tactics was a huge ripoff of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, which is pretty much the defining game in the Strategy-RPG genre (in its current form). And isn't Tactics Advance generally considered the sequel to the original?

How ya doing, buddy?

I loved FFT due to the Job System. But on top of that, the story. It had hands-down the best story I'd seen in an RPG in ages. Loads of politics, backstabbings, in-depth story, etc. Plus, I love the whole setting. I mean c'mon, the game is supposed to be a historian looking over clues he collected, proving that Ramza (hero) was a good guy and not the heretic that the church tagged him as.

Tactics Advance was no fun. It lacked the same sort of job system and had you, like, gather abilities off of weapons and armor. Kinda FFIX-ish, and I really hated the system. Mogs were turned into fucked up rabbits and the story focused on some kids in elementary school. It's hard to make a game dark in setting when the main characters are about half my age. I mean come on.

Also, you might tag Tactics Ogre (great game by the way. Played the SNES version) as the defining game in the genre, but if I'm not mistaken, FF Tactics got loads more attention. I dunno about it being a rip-off, though.

But anyhow, this'd be left best without a sequel. Unless Squenix could prove that they have the skill to pull off an honorable sequel. I'd rather not like to see its name get dragged through the mud.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

Final Fantasy Tactics was a huge ripoff of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, which is pretty much the defining game in the Strategy-RPG genre (in its current form). And isn't Tactics Advance generally considered the sequel to the original?

I wouldn't say it's a rip off at all. Sure, it used the same type of battle system, but how about Disgaea? Or Suikoden Tactics? The idea is there, and it has been implemented in different ways. I just liked FFT so much because it took the genre to a new level.

As far as Tactics Advance, it didn't keep the same feel to it at all. It was much more a kids based game rather than the serious nature of the original, along with the fact that it didn't have any decent semblance of a story. I don't consider it a true sequel at all, a true Final Fantasy Tactics 2.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Final Fantasy Tactics has no room for a sequel. Why defile one of the greatest games of all time with a sequel that has no hope to capture the magic, let alone any sort of continuity of the original anyway. Seriously, leave it alone. Square Enix announcing a sequel would be enough to make a grown man cry.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

I wouldn't say it's a rip off at all. Sure, it used the same type of battle system, but how about Disgaea? Or Suikoden Tactics? The idea is there, and it has been implemented in different ways. I just liked FFT so much because it took the genre to a new level.

No, I understand those examples have their differences. What I'm saying is that Final Fantasy Tactics did not. It is practically a carbon copy of Tactics Ogre, with the only major difference being the three-dimensional battlefield.

Quote:

I don't consider it a true sequel at all, a true Final Fantasy Tactics 2.

I'm not talking about what you think. I'm talking about what Square-Enix thinks.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Considering the fact that Tacitcs Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics are created by the same person, what were you expecing from FFT? A new, genre-defining experience for all?

And besides, I know their are people out there who like the battle-system, but most people like FFT for the story.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Casaubon

Considering the fact that Tacitcs Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics are created by the same person, what were you expecing from FFT? A new, genre-defining experience for all?

And besides, I know their are people out there who like the battle-system, but most people like FFT for the story.

Exactly. That's why I didn't like FFTA at all...the story. Granted, I haven't played Tactics Ogre, so I can't comment on the story within, but having a true sequel (Advance wasn't a sequel, simply a simplified port for "fun") would be great. Sure there is the chance they may defile it, but there is also a chance that it might turn out as great if not greater then the first. That is what this thread is about. If there were a sequel in the works, what would you want in it? What do you think of the ideas that I posted?

I think that Square could make a good sequel to Tactics, as long as they didn't mess with what made the first one great.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

No, I wasn't expecting anything genre-defining. I was expecting a different game. Having the same writer doesn't explain why the actual gameplay is identical.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I wouldn't want an actual sequel to Tactics, as I've seen what SE does with sequels, and it frightens. However, I'd love to see a Final Fantasy style sequel... as in similar game with an entirely new cast and story, utterly independent of its predecessors. I think if they did it in the same style as Suikoden and kept the parts of the story that truely worked, i.e. the retelling of a history from within, the grandiose rising and falling of nations and the concept of the hero and anti-hero's true roles within all of it, it would be wonderful. So long as they didn't ease off the pedal in terms of keeping you involved with the constant updates to people's biographies and the twisting stories.

Now, as for classes, I would love the concept of levelling up the classes and powering them up. I'd also love to see a more dynamic shift in terms of armour to sprite appearance. If your archer is wearing a cape, give the man a damn cape.

For me, however, the truly important bit would be the story. So long as they more or less came through in that department, I'd be thrilled.

Come to think of it... maybe we could tell the story of St. Germonik...


Also, I believe it was more than the same writer. I think it was pretty much the exact same team.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

No, I wasn't expecting anything genre-defining. I was expecting a different game. Having the same writer doesn't explain why the actual gameplay is identical.

As Denicalis said, the whole team was the same. Matsuno was the Director and Writer for both games, and he probably was the Producer as well.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

What? No. A few members who left Quest to work for Squaresoft does not count as Quest developing the game.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

No, I wasn't expecting anything genre-defining. I was expecting a different game. Having the same writer doesn't explain why the actual gameplay is identical.

They're hardly the same game. I could go into detail on the "differences" between the two games, but it really shouldn't be necessary. They're similar in some ways for obvious reasons, but the same game? That's just simplistic and untrue.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I was obviously using hyperbole.

Some people probably think I dislike Tactics, but that's not the case. I'm just bothered by the fact that it seems to overshadow a better game for no real reason.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced seems to be a 'What-If?' story, as the world of Ivalice is clearly seperate from our own, and the version that was visited was

Spoiler:

nothing more then the escapist dream world of a wheelchair-bound kid, and the villian being the friend who bitchslapped him back to reality

.

I'd say its like this:
Final Fantasy VI and VII are in the same main series, but have very little in common, as do the rest of them.
FFT and FFTA are doing the same thing: General same series, but only related on a marginal (at best) level.

The only way they could NOT fuck up the sequel is if the producer of the game (Who also did Vagrant Story, correct?) have wide creative freedom in the design of the game, much like how FFVII was co-written by Nomura, even though he was offically only the Character Designer... he had a lot of influence none the less, so having the guy with all the ideas and the knowledge of what Ivalice [Proper] is all about, it would make for a much more failthful Next Gen continuation, rather then a horrible travesty of IP Usage.

FELIPE NO

You know... I keep hearing amazing things about FF Tactics. Is it really that great of a game? Is the story truly mindblowing?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

I'm just bothered by the fact that it seems to overshadow a better game for no real reason.

I suspected as much with how strongly motivated you seem to be on this but perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that the more "serious" SRPG fans tend to favor Tactics Ogre in a comparison. Personally I like both games a great deal. However, there's no denying that Tactics Ogre is the more balanced SRPG, and it arguably has a better story if just because a good branching storyline is more impressive than a good linear one.

If my icon is any indication, I'm a big Ogre Battle fan and Ogre Battle on the SNES was actually my first SRPG. So I can understand (and share to an extent) the frustration over Tactics Ogre being overlooked just because Final Fantasy Tactics happens to have "Final Fantasy" in the title, but thems the breaks.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Actually since I've started playing the game, the FF monkier only serves to distinct the job classes as being of traditional FF elements (Along with the Chocobos & Cloud in Ch. 4, lol ), so I think people would still play the game even if the Final Fantasy Elements were taken out. Its just that those job classes & other small details are recognizeable and help establish a 'theme'.

Its always harder to start a theme with an original IP, so sometimes, (Such as in this case apparently), the company will loosely use a more popular franchise/title as the skelaton of a game, but largely build it as if it were a completley new title. This is done for marketing reasons usually, but there are other reasons and other examples as well (Of which I can't think of any right now, haha).

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Cellius

You know... I keep hearing amazing things about FF Tactics. Is it really that great of a game? Is the story truly mindblowing?

Yes. And yes. It has a very dark and mature theme and plot with twists, deception, backstabbing, mind screwing and the like. Even the shoddy translation doesn't hurt the game. There's some seriously evil shit going on inside this game.

As for Tactics Ogre, one day a monkey was sitting in the rain forest took a crap and out came a miserable pile of dung that was later shoved in a box and thrown on a shelf with a price tag, and that's all I need to say about that.

Whether FFT copied Craptics Ogre is irrelevant. Anyone with a bit of sense can tell FFT has superior gameplay, graphics, story, music and everything else. You know, all those things that apparently make-up a game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

And isn't Tactics Advance generally considered the sequel to the original?

Sorry sir, but you fail.

Wonder what's keeping Squeenix to release a game that was that awesome again. =/

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Yes. And yes. It has a very dark and mature theme and plot with twists, deception, backstabbing, mind screwing and the like. Even the shoddy translation doesn't hurt the game. There's some seriously evil shit going on inside this game.

Whether FFT copied Craptics Ogre is irrelevant. Anyone with a bit of sense can tell FFT has superior gameplay, graphics, story, music and everything else. You know, all those things that apparently make-up a game.

Just with the music is far from enough. Can't compare such stories; FFT shits on Tactics Ogre's, just like that.

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Yes of course, fail, gtfo, pixels, etcetera. I've heard that shit before.

Just like how I always hear how people say Final Faggotry Tactics (you see what i did there) is better, in every way, yet silence always follows the bold statement. I'm never sure if it's because they've told themselves so many times that FFT is better that they actually believe it, or if they've just never played Tactics Ogre before.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Oh God, not another Final Fantasy thread.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by YoMan

Oh God, not another Final Fantasy thread.

Yes, it is, but it was one with a purpose in mind, originally. I would rather cut out the Tactics Ogre vs. FF Tactics arguement, since it is really moot. Some people prefer one to the other. Big deal. I have never played the former, although I'd like to, so I can't make a comment one way or another.

I was just hoping for some more discussion on a sequel for a game that definately deserves one, unlike the rest of the later games that have come out, or the milking of FFVII that is happening to this day.

Most amazing jew boots

If anything, Tactics deserves a PS3 remake before a sequel. The reason being is that the original story was not written to support a sequel. We know this because of the game's ending. What you're describing in you're first post is just a crapity crap game bearing the Tactics name. I mean if you're worried about a Tactics 2 introducing us to characters like Steiner and Vaan then clearly we're not in the same universe the original brought us to. Seriously, Square Enix not releasing a sequel to this game is the smartest decision they have ever made.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Despite the FF nay-sayers going wild here, I definately love FFT Mainly because I'm a huge fan of that specific team's work on games in general, not just because I like FF titles. I mean, like a lot of things FF-related, the only thing keeping the relative title are some of the creatures used in random battles and a few job titles. It's just really easy for someone that's bitter and jaded to go on a tirade about how everything FF blows and S-E should stop milking it. I don't have any clever rebuttle to those arguments, because really it's about what you enjoy, so whatever Spouting your opinions won't change what other folks enjoy, be it fanboyish or not.

Ramble ramble. With FFT and the whole Ivalice world of games (Vagrant Story, FFXII), it's not really about sequels. It's about games taking place in a similar world throughout its history.

That's about all I've got.

Jam it back in, in the dark.