[SotW] Song of the Week - WEEK 187 Voting/WEEK 188 Nominating

Song of the Week. 175 Weeks and counting.
Week 187 Voting is padlocked.
Week 188 Nominating is soldered.

Results:
1). [28] Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
2). [23] Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
3). [18] ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
4). [15] Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
5). [12/10.5] Alphabet Planet - T
6). [12/9] Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)

!!SPECIAL SOTW ANNOUNCEMENT!!
This week we are going to have a trial run with only six tracks so that we can see what people think about it. This is a response to the relatively low number of nominations recently and an attempt to keep things running smoothly. You still have 6 points to distribute; the only change is that you can't give each song 1 point (why even vote in that case, since it won't alter the outcome?). Everything else will proceed as normal.

Tracks:
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: Alphabet Planet - T
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
Get the Flash Player to play this audio file: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)

Voting Rules:
Voters must distribute 6 points among the 6 nominees, giving points to at least 3 songs, giving no song more than 3 points, and giving no more than one of their choices 3 points. Even though there are six songs, you can't give every song 1 point, since that defeats the purpose. Possible ways of voting include:

Spoiler:

"Traditional"
Song1 - 3 pts.
Song2 - 2 pts.
Song3 - 1 pt.

"Even Stevens"
Song1 - 2 pts.
Song2 - 2 pts.
Song3 - 2 pts.

"Tough Decision"
Song1 - 2 pts.
Song2 - 2 pts.
Song3 - 1 pt.
Song4 - 1 pt.

"Nomination Bias"
Song1 - 3 pts.
Song2 - 1 pt.
Song3 - 1 pt.
Song4 - 1 pt.

"Indecisive"
Song1 - 2 pts.
Song2 - 1 pt.
Song3 - 1 pt.
Song4 - 1 pt.
Song5 - 1 pt.

Notes:
Please remember to upload your nominations to the SotW server! Uploaded noms mean a faster, smoother SotW experience for everyone. Server information:

Spoiler:

* Host: ftp.sotw.info
* Username: nominations@sotw.info (that is the actual username; not an e-mail address)
* Password: gff
* Port: 21

Week 187 Nominating:
The Nominations Queue can be found here.
The rules for nominating can be found here.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Nom Nom NOM!!

• Album: Scratches Original Soundtrack
• Composer: Cellar of Rats
• Track Title: The House, in Dust
• Track Number: 3
• Year: 2006
• Source: N/A: Scratches Original Soundtrack - VGMdb

There's nowhere I can't reach.

This might be a really silly question: I'm interested in nominating a track, but I have suspicions that I nominated it in the past but don't know how to confirm it. Any ideas on how to check that easily?

The track in question is from GoldenEye 007 (which I think will barely pass the obscurity measure).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well the Nomination Archive doesn't list any GoldenEye 007 noms. So you're set.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Alphabet Planet – T Kikuta is always good in a pinch, though this is one of the lesser songs from Alphabet Planet for sure.

Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2) Not bad, but has kind of an anonymous sound. Reminded me a lot of the weaker latter-day Blue Bomber music.

ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others- I don't know who or what ixion is, but it's always interesting at the very least. There's some neat stuff over the song's epic length, but the long windup makes it tough to enjoy as such.

Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star I guess I was expecting something bouncy rather than demented big band that sounds fresh out of Moonside. Can't say I enjoyed it much.

Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer Okami's music tends to be rooted too much in Asian classical music for my taste. Luckily that overwhelming sound is more subdued here and related more to instrument choice than the structure of the music. I will say that pasting the two songs together seems like a bad idea, since the second half is far more energetic and engaging than the first and the song's length feels kinda bloated.

Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver) Like a breath of fresh air, this bouncy synthy song is just what this week needed. It's got a great melody, and the hideous vocals that no doubt accompanied the non-karaoke version are blissfully absent. Far and away the best song this week.

Very poor week overall, but the 6-track structure seems to work just fine.

The Point Spread
Alice Dare – 3 pts.
Mr. T – 1 pts.
Ixion – 1 pt.
Wep'Keer – 1 pt.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Muzza

Well the Nomination Archive doesn't list any GoldenEye 007 noms. So you're set.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.


Edit: The six-track structure works fine for me. Different for sure, but no worse. And much easier to digest with two less songs. Two songs can really make or break a week: elevate it to a higher level or bring it down depending on the quality.

All in all, not a terrible week.

(2 points) ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-: Takes a little while to build up, but it's worth it when it gets there.

(2 points) Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer: I'm playing through Okami right now and this about falls in line with what I've heard from the game. Asian, for sure (not that it's a negative), but plenty more to make it worthwhile.

(1 point) Alphabet Planet - T: I remember this track, and it actually turns out better than the sum of its part -- particularly the instrument selection, which seems muddled but doesn't really hinder the song in anway.

(1 point) Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver): Bouncy, fun, that about sums it up.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I am, unabashedly, more of a fan of the first disc to Alphabet Planet than I am of the second. At one moment delightfully quirky and at the next awkwardly messy, Alphabet Planet - T is a tough one to judge. I guess it's not the most engaging listen in the end, despite some memorable instrumental elements. Still, points for the unconventional sound.

Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2) doesn't really do anything for me whatsoever. No real hooks to speak of, and unlike Kikuta's offering, you definitely can't chalk up originality as a plus point here.

Ah another zts electronica behemoth. ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others- progresses from the minimalistic to the jazzy and beyond all while retaining a great melodic sensibility, which is wonderfully emphasised by the low-key buildup in dynamics throughout. Yet another impressive zts track!

I'm all for Kirby (64) music, but Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star just doesn't cut it for me. The blend of sounds and styles is more jarring than alluring, and the melodic work is seriously insubstantial to help push the song along.

As fun as it would be to start another ASIA row, I can't really say too many negative things about Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer. It's a great track that paints a wonderful piece of scenery, and a delicate soundscape of tranquility and wistfulness. The lift in tempo halfway through is a welcome addition too, though I think the track would have benefited by using that development a bit more.

Well, given I would probably really enjoy the vocal version of this track too, enjoying the karaoke version is particularly easy. Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver) is one of those rare SotW tracks that's instantly enjoyable and entertaining, no strings attached. The song started to wear a little thin towards the end, but still---maybe this is one of the five million Touhou doujin CD's worth checking out.

POINThou by the billion

2 points: ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
2 points: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
2 points: Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer

Wow, perfect 50/50 split this week between the good and the bad for me. A passable week overall as such; couldn't discriminate between the top three so I just gave out an even spread. As for the six-track layout, consider me a fan.

FELIPE NO

Amendment to my nomination. Using a slightly different version and correcting a mistake in the earlier nomination's details.

* Album Title: Mirror's Edge Original Videogame Score
* Artist: Lisa Miskovsky
* Composer: Rami Yacoub and Arnthor Birgirsson
* Track Title: Still Alive
* Source: Amazon.com: Mirror's Edge Original Videogame Score: EA Games Soundtrack: MP3 Downloads ; Game Credits for Mirror's Edge
* File Location: Nominations folder (uploaded)
* Disc Number: NA
* Track Number: 11
* Catalogue Number: NA
* Year: 2009
* Note: This is from the mp3 album of the game's soundtrack.

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Spoiler:

I doubt I'll have the time to listen to these anytime again before the week ends, so getting my points in early (Friday's considered early, right)

3 points: Ripple Star
2 points: Zone B (Stage 2)
1 point: Wep'Keer
Just Missed: End of a Dream, false memories -others-
AGAUOENGUAHEFOAUNEFAOUDVNHSOg: T

Woah, Ripple Star is THAT tune. I always loved how Kirby 64, and Dreamland 3 for that matter, had these completely badass out-of-left-field tunes reserved for the "final" stage.

T could've been a really good song if, you know, it didn't have the most terrible sax sampling ever. I mean that distorted guitar reminded me of YACK, it's like the song was trying to cancel itself out.

Also where did this rip of Okami come from, hearing both versions of the tunes in one file would be a real treat.

EDIT: Noticed that the Wep'keer tune was simply done by the nominator himself.

How ya doing, buddy?

And here's my nomination:

Game Title: GoldenEye 007
Artist: Graeme Norgate, Grant Kirkhope
Disc Number: 2
Track Number: 05
Track Title: Antenna Cradle, Janus Base, Cuba
Year: 1997
Note: Rip

There's nowhere I can't reach.

For an experiment, this was not an auspicious start.

3 Points: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)

And that's where my ability to make a decision ends this week. The rest of the tracks, not a single one had an effect on me other than to shrug and move along to the next. Just being honest with you guys.

But in order for Alice-Dere to receive credit for the points it deserves, I've gotta pad the voting for two or three other pieces I don't feel strongly about. I feel a bit hypocritical since, if it were up to me, there'd only be one placing track this week. I just don't feel as if any of the rest are sincerely worthy of enshrinement as the so-called "Best in VGM." They're okay - none are hideous or anything - but they're also quite pedestrian, not examples of outstanding or unique composition.

This is why I think I prefer eight tracks; the chances of finding and choosing three quality tracks is improved with eight, whereas with six we find ourselves in the situation at hand where we're voting in one good track, then debating the best of the worst. I don't feel good about the implication that this week's runners-up are of the same caliber as the runners-up from any other given week.

But I truly like Alice-Dere, and want it to win hands-down, so here's the rest of my points in no special order:

1 Point: Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
1 Point: Alphabet Planet - T
1 Point: ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-

Please forgive me for being negative this week.

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3 points: Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
2 points: Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)
1 point: uh, let's go with Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer, I guess

Ripple Star is why Jun Ishikawa is my favorite VGM composer, and while I readily admit that I will eat up every Kirby soundtrack full of repackaged melodies with fanboyish glee until the day I die, I eagerly wish for the day when the Kirby series returns to the musical legacy started in Kirby Super Star with a few tracks (RoMK ending and MWW final boss in particular, GCO title somewhat) that Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64 expanded upon into brilliance (Kirby Air Ride arguably as well; it's rather different stylistically from those two, but I tend to group them together).

And while there are quite a few reasons to dislike Ripple Star, as well as an exactly equal number of reasons why doing so makes you a terrible person, I do kind of resent being "pedestrian" being used as one of them, when it's the track this week that that adjective is least applicable to.

In other news, I find myself liking the I themes from Okami more than the II ones. It's kind of weird how my favorite tracks from the soundtrack are either the simplest (Curshed Shinshu I) or the most over-the-top (battle themes).

How ya doing, buddy?

2 points: ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
2 points: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
1 points: Alphabet Planet - T
1 points: Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)

I fucking lost my post because of hitting backspace and already wrote so much, you know that it's passed and you can't type the same thing again, so here's a short retell:

I was talking, concerning Crash's post, about how it's simple math and it's evitable that the quality will go down according to the last post I made. Then I went briefly over the fact that I had difficulties assigning points on account that in the beginning I rather like every track equally and only later like the 7. time it came to a sensible distribution form.

The last issue was the longest and concerned GAINING. I was very emotional and used a lot the word "fucking" in order to express my disappointment of how fucking inferior the SOTW version of the ixion song is in comparison to my original that I uploaded, DESPITE what the developpers say. I was willing to accept that maybe the song isn't that good to begin with and that I was imagining things, but then I went on saying that this issue is raised not the first time, especially concerning downgained songs. I was aware that the reason for that complaint is unfortunately not clean or objectif or innocent, because it concerns my own song, but made the concession that it's otherwise impossible for me to jugde which other nominations have been victim of that. The reason in my opinion was that the gained song lost somewhat of its power and text. In order to illustrate it I made a comparison with a rough surface, whereby gaining reduces the roughness, and that my fingers couldn't possible still feel the texture depth, because it's not unlimitedly sensitive. Towards the end I called GAINING arrogant for allowing itself to judge over the volume and thus power of my song relative to the others, especially considering the boastful, cheeky and chaotic nature of this song.
In the last paragraph I plead to the officials to please not gain my songs or the songs from others anymore, because this is not the first case. Once again I pointed out the apparently selfish nature of that plea, but conceded that it isn't possible otherwise again and that it should be better for the future and my conscience. Thank you.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Djinova

I fucking lost my post because of hitting backspace and already wrote so much, you know that it's passed and you can't type the same thing again, so here's a short retell:

Man, that's happened to me so many times. And I write bloody tomes for SotW some of the time. So disheartening when it happens!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yeah, in fact I posted during the previous Battle that I had to turn up my system volume in order to listen to the nominations. With the volume nerf plenty of songs lose their intended effect.

Relative song volume should be taken as an individual quality rather than noise to be filtered out. After all, you're not grouping all these tracks on a single medium for regular listening.

FELIPE NO

2 points: Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
2 points: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
1 point: Alphabet Planet - T
1 point: Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)

Average week, no standouts for me. And about gaining, I've had an issue with it concerning one nomination of mine several weeks back. I think it shouldn't be done or at least reserved for tracks that are either too soft or too loud.

o_O Not a big fan of the six track thing. Not enough variety...

Anyway, meh week.

(2 points) Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
(2 points) Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
(1 point) ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
(1 point) Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

3 Points: Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
2 Points: ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
1 Point: Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)

Originally i wanted to give my nomination (Okami) and ixion two points each and split the two remaining points between Osaisentoka no Karaoke and some other track but wound up not finding one that would deserve the point (<-subjectivity), so to not give all three of them an equal amount of points i gave it to Okami in the end...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

There are a few different points on gaining that I need to cover, so I've divided this post into sections.

Why we do this in the first place

The intent of gaining the tracks is to get them all at roughly the same volume. Louder music is generally perceived as sounding better, which is why I'd prefer to keep the tracks at the same level so that they can be judged on an equal field. I don't want someone's indifference in adjusting the volume dial to become a factor in deciding what places.

Game rips can vary wildly in volume based on the method the ripper uses, and ungained tracks have been complained about in the past. Conditionally gaining any particularly loud or soft tracks may help with outliers, but tracks will still be at different volumes in a range, so it's still basically the same as not gaining. For a music competition like SotW, where the pieces are directly judged against each other, I think the benefits of a consistent volume outweigh the downsides of adjusting the audio data.

What the gaining actually does

Theoretically, the gaining process is literally a volume change. The program calculates how loud someone will think the piece sounds and applies a constant volume change throughout the whole thing to match a target loudness. The process is reversible, because all it does is change the overall volume, not re-encode the file. There's nothing it does that shouldn't be able to be undone by playing the piece louder or softer.

I don't usually listen to the tracks before gaining, but I'm usually already familiar with 2 or 3 tracks in any given week, and in all the time I've been here, I can't think of a single track I felt was affected in any way that turning up the system volume a few notches wouldn't fix. That includes the ixion track this week, which I've listened to a few times gained and ungained. (I even gave it to a friend who has much better audio equipment than I do, and he agreed.) But, quite obviously, some people have had issues with the gaining of some tracks, or else we we wouldn't be discussing this at all.

From here on out

While gaining the tracks each week, I've noticed that pretty much every track gets moved down rather than up. I checked the gain settings for the last ten weeks' worth of tracks, and out of the 78 tracks, 71 had their volumes reduced. I'm fairly certain a similar ratio would hold if I were to check more weeks. To me, the numbers suggest that we could increase the target volume of the gaining process, so that the INCREDIBLY LOUD TRACKS (that ixion track is seriously hella loud) aren't turned down as much while still maintaining a consistent volume.

Of course, if I'm the only person who still wants gaining, I guess we could ditch it entirely, since my management style here is pretty much "eh, whatever you guys say," but I think the gaining is kind of important.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Sometimes in the past when I've used MP3Gain, it sounded like the fidelity was reduced, but I couldn't be certain. I just never use it anymore.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yeah, I don't usually gain my music either; I just do it for SotW for comparative purposes. I've never noticed anything that didn't sound to me like just a volume change, including my own noms, but again, just my personal experience (I do listen to music with the shittiest pair of headphones that have ever existed on this planet). Others have clearly had problems where they can hear a difference, even if I can't.

Is this the common sentiment? Is anyone okay with the gaining? Had problem-free experiences like I've had? Please validate me.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm okay with the gaining since I agree that the songs should be presented on an even sonic level. I've only ever complained that a song was too faint but a few times, and I think that in those cases the song was originally recorded at a low volume and the gaining probably raised it a bit, in fact.

As CHz said, songs recorded at an initially high volume will subconsciously attract more attention, and that's not always a fair psychological edge.

I mean, here we are at Week 187 and we've come this far, gaining all the while. Is it seriously that critical that we need to change it now? It's been a relative non-issue for what, four years now?

How's this: if a nominator has concerns that mp3gaining will diminish the listening experience, when making the nomination, explicitly request that it not be gained. It can be a preferential option for the nominator; otherwise gaining will remain the default.

Does that sound like a fair resolution?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Some points here:

3 points ~ Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
1 point ~ Alphabet Planet - T
1 point ~ Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)
1 point ~ Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer

FELIPE NO

Here's the thing with mp3gaining; our embedded Flash player (or your choice of mp3 player for those who download the tracks) has a volume slider. If a track is too loud for your taste, you can always slide it down. With gain reduced tracks however, after maxing the player volume I still have to turn to the system volume slider.

Originally Posted by CHz

To me, the numbers suggest that we could increase the target volume of the gaining process

YES PLZ

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Alphabet Planet - T
Found it to be average, especially coming from Kikuta. Didn't like the clarinet(?) sound, but the rest sounded mostly good. Too much rhythm/harmony based, and thus lacking a standout melody in my opinion.

Cosmic Cop (Game Rip) - Zone B (Stage 2)
Good standard type arcade music from its era. Strong rhythm, and catchy, albeit short, melodic hooks. It was enjoyable, but not quite spectacular to me.

ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-
What's the zts nomination count up to now? Quite an interesting electronic tune, although a little long. I especially enjoyed the last segment's synth.

Kirby of the Stars 64 Original Soundtrack - Ripple Star
Never been a fan of Kirby in one form or another. And unfortunately, "Ripple Star" didn't change my opinion. It's jazz, so I was open, but it's too frantic and synthetic sounding for me to really get into. It annoyed more than anything; "Repel Star" for a play on words. Should work fine in-game though, but I guess that for a standalone listen, I'm a little too conservative for it. Sorry...

Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
Very peaceful, relaxing theme. It's a good one from the game, although not what I would have personally picked; probably would have gone with "Shinshuu Plains" or "Ryoshima Plains". Still a nice pick though!

Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
A happy tune for sure, maybe a little too happy though. But surprinsgly, I enjoyed it nonetheless as it was catchy. The retro NES sound usage was cool, as well as the other various electronic effects. It kind of reminded me of "Popcorn" in a way. An obscure nom I'm certain that I would have never heard otherwise, so thanks!

(3 points) Osaisentoka no Karaoke - Alice→Dere (Karaoke Ver)
(2 points) Okami (Game Rip) - Wep'Keer
(1 point) ixion - End of a dream, false memories -others-

-----

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

This is why I think I prefer eight tracks; the chances of finding and choosing three quality tracks is improved with eight

I agree to a certain extent. Six should be used when nominators get to a critically low level. I don't know if the current number is critical enough, although it's certainly not high.

Originally Posted by CHz

I don't want someone's indifference in adjusting the volume dial to become a factor in deciding what places.

Indeed. Although MP3Gain doesn't make all tracks at the exact same volume, it certainly help on that matter.

Quote:

I've noticed that pretty much every track gets moved down rather than up.

I concur.

Quote:

To me, the numbers suggest that we could increase the target volume of the gaining process

That would be a good idea. From my own experience, I found that 94db is about the "normal" volume.

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