Apple Vs. Microsoft - Competition?

I was talking with my good friend today about Apple and Microsoft and how crazy they compete with each other. Moreso how crazy apple competes with Microsoft, the commercials and such.

I brought up this subject after watching pirates of silicon valley, and seeing how much a of a psychedelic nut job, jobs really is. Apple is more of a religious crusade for him than a business, and he clearly shows that with his commercials and speeches. and even in the apple company, how they fight over which machine is better. The movie strongly portrayed jobs as being hitlerish.

It's obvious that his mindset led to company issues and him being fired (only to be rehired later)



Is the competition with apple and Microsoft greater than the competition among other companies?


I told my friend that Steve jobs makes it this way with his "crusader" mindset. That you don't see other companies fighting like that, and used dell and HP as an analogy (a terrible one at that; my friend called me on it saying that they are too different because they both use windows OS). i mean, i usually see apple fans being HARDCORE, like ridiculously "patriotic" about their love for apple and HATE for windows, while in the film they showed jobs creating this superiority mindset even among his own company.

I mean I see people who "prefer" AMD over "Intel" and vice versa, but i don't see crazy obsessions. Another reason why jobs might be so nuts is because of how Microsoft screwed him, but it seems like jobs was this way even before that.

What you guys think?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

No other company that I can think of offhand has to make commercials that just rip on the competition and don't really say squat about themselves.

Apple is basically some douchefag lifestyle-choice thing now. I know like one person who has an Apple because they honestly like them better. That kid of person I like because they are actually informed and intelligent. The rest are just on board the bandwagon because they think they're computer-savvy just for hating microsoft and sitting in starbucks with their laptop open so everyone can see they are part of this hip new cultural phenomenon.

I want to punch every dumb fucker in the head who is like this. I've seriously come across Apple owners who cannot get it into their head that they do NOT have 120GB of system memory. A PC owner, at least in general, you know, would be like "oh, I see the difference now." An Apple owner, however, sees it as an affront to their entire way of life and will not only refuse to give way, but they will not shut the fuck up about it, and will go after you, and go after you, until you just tell them they are right so they'll shut up.

I don't know. Maybe Apple is better overall. But I'm used to PCs, they have far more 3rd party app support, and I need my DirectX for gaming. Apple has pretty much put me off ever buying any of their products with their stupid "im a douchefag apple" and "im boring business pc man" commercials. On first glance I like what Apple does with their stuff, but the company philosophy makes me hate them more than any other company. I *LIKE* Microsoft now because of how they compare up with Apple.

I don't see Pepsi putting out commercials bashing coke for having too dull a taste. I don't see Paramount showing a TV spot ripping on Touchstone Pictures for releasing Pearl Harbor. You don't see Charmin ripping on fucking Quilted Northern because they don't give you a nice tingly feeling when you wipe it across your asshole.

It's pathetic. It's like watching an 11-year old whine at his parents because he wants sweeties, and the parent just ignores the kid because they know the kid isn't going to get what he wants, they are large and in charge.

I really do not know what is up Steve Job's ass but it's terribly annoying. At least it makes for some funny internet spots (Bill Gates Runs Like a Girl).

EDIT: In a more direct answer to your very BIG question, no, it's not bigger. Microsoft seems to be pretty much, at least as a whole, ignoring Apple and letting them make fools of themselves. Apple's making a crusade out of a non-existent corporate hatred.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

They're both fiercely competitive. Apple's current business processes are as bad or worse than Microsoft's were at its prime - undocumented APIs to make its programs faster, price fixing, hardware lockins, the works - and yet the government turns away and lets them be instead of kicking their ass in court like they did with MS. Microsoft has mellowed out, although mellowed != going away peacefully

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

In all honesty I don't even see this as a real competition. Apple computers are basicly just good for video editing from what I understand. If you want to play much of anything that isn't World of Warcraft on an Apple you have to download all sorts of programs to trick your Apple into thinking it's a PC which from what I understand causes it to run worse then it does on PC. So much for Apples power.

There's a reason that tons of software just skips over working on Apple and not vice versa. Apple probably wouldn't even have the money to be flapping their gums right now if they didn't make Ipods.

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Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

In all honesty I don't even see this as a real competition. Apple computers are basicly just good for video editing from what I understand. If you want to play much of anything that isn't World of Warcraft on an Apple you have to download all sorts of programs to trick your Apple into thinking it's a PC which from what I understand causes it to run worse then it does on PC. So much for Apples power.

There's a reason that tons of software just skips over working on Apple and not vice versa. Apple probably wouldn't even have the money to be flapping their gums right now if they didn't make Ipods.

I totally just had an AOL flashback.

TOTALLY

I'm pretty sure that Microsoft considers Linux a larger threat than Apple and Mac OS X.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

In all honesty I don't even see this as a real competition. Apple computers are basicly just good for video editing from what I understand. If you want to play much of anything that isn't World of Warcraft on an Apple you have to download all sorts of programs to trick your Apple into thinking it's a PC which from what I understand causes it to run worse then it does on PC. So much for Apples power.

There's a reason that tons of software just skips over working on Apple and not vice versa. Apple probably wouldn't even have the money to be flapping their gums right now if they didn't make Ipods.

Well I think saying they are only good for editing is a bit of of an understatement. Apples are good for a lot of things, and I personally believe apple is the "better" computer. As far as reliability and ease of use go, GUI and security as well, Apple takes the take.

I totally agree with you about the ipods and actually lol'd when you said that. It always seems like apple comes out with this innovative piece of hardware (which is another respectable face of apple) that SAVES THEIR ASS. The first imac, the ipod, now the iphone perhaps. I think Macair is gayyy though.

It's funny because when Jobs was let go apple started going to absolute shit. Without Jobs' innovative, spiritual, psychotic mind, they couldn't keep up with the mass invasion of PC computers and just sucked. Then in 1997 jobs cames back (I figure he was working "undercover" the entire time anyway) and introduced the imac. The rest is history.

It seems like apple spend most of their time these days just trying to make innovative hardware and keeping their computers pretty/professional, easy to use and VERY secure. And raising a fucking army or mac loyalists.

I'm so glad Steve Jobs isn't president....omg, we thought bush was bad.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I prefer to Microsoft:because Ease of Use,More People use it,Not Expensive

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Vinjeux

I'm so glad Steve Jobs isn't president....omg, we thought bush was bad.

Hehe I think it's funny that your entire impression of Steve Jobs is based wholly on a dramatized documentary.

I see no real compelling reason to own a Mac as a home computer, but the second you want to use one professionally, there's really no other choice. They rock the industry.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Cellius

Hehe I think it's funny that your entire impression of Steve Jobs is based wholly on a dramatized documentary.

That was my going to be post except I would have called it a far-fetched work of fiction. I note that Vinjeux has no apparent scorn for Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, neither of whom were depicted in a flattering manner by this movie.

It's fiction, nobody but the parties involved knows what really happened. I think it's only safe to say that Jobs has a huge ego and an almost religious fervor regarding his products. This much we can judge from his public appearances. It would be unfair to assume he's the maniac depicted in the movie though.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

I've seriously come across Apple owners who cannot get it into their head that they do NOT have 120GB of system memory. A PC owner, at least in general, you know, would be like "oh, I see the difference now."

I take it that in the impenetrable bastion of high society that you live in EVERY PC owner you know is actually a computer scientist? Both sides of this "battle" have their share of fucking morons and you know it.

I love how you generalized every Mac owner based on the experiences of you running into the yuppie coffee shop "revolutionaries" of the world BUT WAIT you somehow managed to try to save face by including the one "well-informed" cat you know who owns a Mac.



There's nowhere I can't reach.

I think the reason why Apple has been attacking Microsoft so much directly in their advertising is because they are trying to sway PC past and present users to switch over. Since Microsoft owns the majority of the market, Apple needs to find not only new users (which are few left) that do not use computers for the most part in their lives, but to move people from one side to the other.

I personally don't feel it has been overly successful, but I have enjoyed the commercials.

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Apple Vs Microsoft? Wow, this has been going on for YEARS.

What Apple is doing is nothing new. Remember Sega and Nintendo. Yeah, the Sega that now has the majority of their titles on the Wii/GC/NDS? Yeah, THAT Sega. Apple isn't the first, nor it is the last.

Interestingly though, they are wisely going for people with the idea that their stuff is the 'hip, new thing'. That works nicely because many people who believe that won't know the disadvantages of a Mac.

That isn't to say that a iMac or whatever doesn't have some nice features. They are lightweight, a bit faster, and you can do alot with photos, music, etc. However, the disadvantages of not being able to run 80% of the software (which is a HUUUUUGE improvment from say, ten years ago) without emulations/BC (at a hit in performance) is huge.

Take for example, the airbook mac or whatever it's called. Seems awesome because it's so light and all. However, once you peel away the surprise and innovativeness, you notice it's missing some things like a CD/DVD Rom drive, and has a limited number of ports. Granted, you can get add-ons for that, but that costs more money and ultimately will take up more space.

For iPods, I admit it, I like it. I got a 4G one long ago, used it to it bust, and then got a new one which I still use all the time. I looked at the Zune, but it's features didn't impress me like an iPod. And while I admit that before I got it because it was the 'hip new thing' at college, nowadays I get it because it's small and easy-to-use.

The iPhone is way overpriced. I see myself getting one on the 11th of never. I mean, I guess it's innovative or something, but that is more Apple basically investing a lot of advertising into it, plus they had the 'new, innovative technology' and 'it's by us, Apple' that used to help themselves along. I haven't heard of MS having anything to top this but there are, of course, rumors about them doing so.

So yeah, I think the competition between them is fierce. Apple is wise in how they are marketing their stuff, but in truth they will run into the problem that they simply are they 'hip, new technology' anymore. After that, it will be interesting to see what happens. That doesn't mean that they aren't already forseeing that and trying new things (wasn't it reported they were going to start making games or somethinglike that?), but as of things right now, it can only be so long until iPods and iPhones just aren't as 'new' anymore, and that the innovativeness concerning their macbooks are seen as truly innovative.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by mortis

Apple is wise in how they are marketing their stuff, but in truth they will run into the problem that they simply are they 'hip, new technology' anymore.... until iPods and iPhones just aren't as 'new' anymore, and that the innovativeness concerning their macbooks are seen as truly innovative.

I don't know about you, Mr. Prophet, but I buy industry standard technology to do industry standard work to be hip and cool.

These arguments are always so flawed because they're so generalized. No way in hell am I going to use my Windows computer to get my film and/or scoring work done, and only when that computer dies would I use my Mac to do anything else. Macs can handle so much more intensive work, but I find them to be a chore to use for daily non-essential work.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Dude, Cellius...quote from myself:

"
That isn't to say that a iMac or whatever doesn't have some nice features. They are lightweight, a bit faster, and you can do alot with photos, music, etc. However, the disadvantages of not being able to run 80% of the software (which is a HUUUUUGE improvment from say, ten years ago) without emulations/BC (at a hit in performance) is huge.
"

Yes, I know that macs can do a lot with graphics, photos, music, etc. And yes, I realize that macs are lacking in being used for other uses. Heck, that's why when I have friends who are truly interested in music and art (and a few other things), I refer them to macbooks, but otherwise advise PC's.

I suppose the definitions of 'hip' and 'cool' vary. What I am getting at is that people buy things, such as iPods, because that was (is) the 'hip, new thing'. However, wasn't that the same with CD players? Maybe it was only me, but I really remember waaay back fifteen years ago people with CD players being 'hip' because CD players were the 'new' thing. Nowadays it is Mp3 players but iPods especially.

That example may be a bit weak when I am also including macbooks and such, but what I am getting at is it seems Apple is trying to go with the idea that their stuff is new, hip and innovative. That's fine, but what happens when people feel it isn't new, hip, or innovative and something else comes along? And while I'm not saying everyone buys a macbook for those reasons (hip, innovative, etc), SOME people do.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Uh, what exactly makes graphic and video manipulation so much better on Macs compared to PCs?

FELIPE NO

That would be a good question for someone into graphics and video. For me, I am going with what I have heard from others (something about macs being able to better process graphic intense programs, and having better graphic/video/music creation/edit programs overall), albeit most aren't mac users but they heard it from somewhere ELSE.

Of course, if what I have heard is wrong then there would go some of my arguments.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

The problem with this PC vs. Mac argument is simple - There are douchebags on both sides. You could argue that there are MORE douchebags in the PC camp given its bigger user base, but who's counting? The unfortunate truth is, Mac users get a bad reputation because a TINY minority of their users are a bunch of snobby artfags, and and even tinier minority are the vocal ones who are fucking idiots and give guys like me a bad name.

Why do people use Macs? Honestly, because they simply work better for some people. A lot of people don't want to be bothered with NEEDING a shit load of third-party software to protect them from the big scary internet. They don't care what kind of video or sound card they have, and they don't want to be bothered with needing to know the ins and outs of PC hardware. They just want to do their computing uninterrupted. Getting a Mac is pretty much a matter of buying it and plugging it in, and that's it. It's simplicity has always been its biggest upside for me. It just works, and it doesn't ask anything of you in return.

One of the biggest complaints I hear from hardcore PC users is that you can't upgrade your Mac or put new parts in it. I can see why this would upset the small percentage of PC users who actually build their own shit, but for guys like me who don't have the time or patience to do any of that, buying a Mac is fine. It has exceptionally good hardware built right in. I've never had any trouble doing intense video editing on consumer-level Macs. On top of that, you CAN upgrade the Mac Pro towers pretty much fully to your heart's content.

Now, I will comb through this and highlight some of my favorite comments:

Quote:

Apple is basically some douchefag lifestyle-choice thing now.

See, now how is this any different from the crazy Mac crowd? It's not just a douchefag lifestyle. I'll admit that it does have some brand recognition going for it, but who cares? They designed a better, faster, and sexier computer than anybody else on the market and you're condemning them for it? How is this any better than Mac cunts saying "OMG PEECEES ARE THE GAYYY"

Furthermore, of course it's a lifestyle choice. Computing is part of nearly everybody's lifestyle. My lifestyle is independent filmmaking, why would I choose anything but a Mac? The question is, will the computer you get satisfy your needs? Some people want PCs, some want Macs. Deal with it.

Quote:

Microsoft seems to be pretty much, at least as a whole, ignoring Apple and letting them make fools of themselves.

They're ignoring Apple because they still have 97% of the market. They don't give a shit. Plus, Apple making a fool of themselves? Their marketshare increases exponentially every month. Yeah they're really doing a terrible job.

Quote:

I think the reason why Apple has been attacking Microsoft so much directly in their advertising is because they are trying to sway PC past and present users to switch over.

Holy shit, truth overload! Of course that's why they're advertising the way they are. They're not trying to sway people who DON'T have computers, they're trying to sway people who do. And based on the rise it's getting out of people, it's working.

Quote:

However, the disadvantages of not being able to run 80% of the software (which is a HUUUUUGE improvment from say, ten years ago) without emulations/BC (at a hit in performance) is huge.

This is what I constantly question PC users on, and I have yet to this day gotten a good answer, so maybe you guys can help me. What exactly do you NEED on a PC that you can't get on a Mac? The only things I am aware of are games and keygens. List off some stuff you think Macs don't have and I'll see if I can back myself up.

I mean honestly, most of the shit people want can be had on a Mac, oftentimes better thanks solely to the fluidity and usability of the operating system. Everything is integrated brilliantly with the OS, and it makes pretty much every application a joy to use.

Quote:

Macs can handle so much more intensive work, but I find them to be a chore to use for daily non-essential work.

I actually view it the opposite way, believe it or not. Of course, I would never use a PC for professional work, but I'd be LESS inclined to use a PC for home/daily/non-essential work. Apple's software for the day-to-day things are far and away better than the stuff I've used on PCs.

I can deal with using Avid or Photoshop on a PC if I have to. I would absolutely prefer to use a Mac, but most professional environments have somewhat decent PCs in which to do pro-level editing/graphics.


A lot of Mac users I know are people who have switched over from PCs. The thing is, I've never met a person who has switched from Mac to PC. That has to account for something, PC users. As for me, I would never in a million years pay for a PC after having tons of experience on both. Macs have everything I need and while PCs might have everything I need on a tangible level, the experience in using one is, for me, absolute horse shit in comparison to my Mac.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by sprouticus

A lot of people don't want to be bothered with NEEDING a shit load of third-party software to protect them from the big scary internet.

That is so 1999. Really, a hardware firewall (built in in almost every router today) does the job just fine.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

They don't care what kind of video or sound card they have, and they don't want to be bothered with needing to know the ins and outs of PC hardware.

And why would I - as a pc user - be bothered with needing to know the ins and outs? I can use my computer in every way I want without bothering with the hardware. And what the hell is with the Sound/Video card thing? I'm willing to bet most PC users don't give a squat about their sound card either. It's probably built in on their mother board anyway.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Syndrome

That is so 1999. Really, a hardware firewall (built in in almost every router today) does the job just fine.

I don't know dick about networking, admittedly, but it's still true that PCs are more vulnerable than Macs, and that does scare away some people.

Quote:

And why would I - as a pc user - be bothered with needing to know the ins and outs? I can use my computer in every way I want without bothering with the hardware. And what the hell is with the Sound/Video card thing? I'm willing to bet most PC users don't give a squat about their sound card either. It's probably built in on their mother board anyway.

I'm just talking about the vocal minority here... Namely, the PC users who bitch about Macs having non-interchangeable hardware. Should have made that clearer, but my point still stands.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

I'm just talking about the vocal minority here... Namely, the PC users who bitch about Macs having non-interchangeable hardware. Should have made that clearer, but my point still stands.

Oh, sorry for the confusion.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bigblah

Uh, what exactly makes graphic and video manipulation so much better on Macs compared to PCs?

Apple engineered the Macintosh computer from the ground up to be a color-matching machine. Their Apple Color System is still pretty much industry standard in the graphics world and, when comparing the two platforms for font and color processing (usually PostScript), the Apple machines have the upper hand. The way all fonts are handled on my Mac trumps any font manipulation software I've ever used on PC and, provided I calibrate the Mac's monitor to the printer profile, I will always print what I see on screen. With PCs I can't even two monitors connected to the same computer to match colors from one to the other. This always severely fucks up my proofs because nothing prints the way I want it to. That's why I still have my Mac and I only use it explicitly for graphics. The PC is what I use to do my daily online chores.

But, for the record, both work just fine. PCs are no better or worse for daily use if you know how to take care of them.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

They're ignoring Apple because they still have 97% of the market.

92%.

Originally Posted by Syndrome

That is so 1999. Really, a hardware firewall (built in in almost every router today) does the job just fine.

Doesn't stop your average computer company from shipping a 30-day trial of the latest and greatest version of Symantec's Internet Security or something along those lines.

See, you and I both know that the majority of problems that can be contracted from the big scary internet can be nipped right at the entrance point. Yet almost every major computer manufacturer ships a third party anti-virus (an admittedly essential piece) AND some kind of personal firewall software (almost completely useless if you have even a basic router) with their computers, which you're encouraged to buy under pain of ad-infinitum virus attacks.

Each market fights as dirty as the other in order to gain or maintain their market share, people. The bashing of Apple on PCs and vice versa is kind of a joyride for me now. I know what I'm comfortable using and no marketing machine is going to sway that comfort.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Still, Apple using that blue screened monitor icon was low

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?