[Multiplatform] Guilty Gear! Because I love it! v. BURST

Since Bobo is a dummy and forgot to pay the bill to keep GFF, we lost all our awesomeness of our Guilty Gear thread. Now that I'm back, I decided to revive our old thread and even give it a new version name (a parody of #R and Slash, if you couldn't figure it out). I'm not sure if any of you members who once attended this thread have been keeping up with the Guilty Gear scene, but Slash has been out for a little over 6 months, and the console version is to be released (Japan only, for now) on 4/13.

If you guys need videos, head to this Dustloop.com thread for links to sites.

There aren't many Slash machines in America right now, as far as I know. I know of three: one on the east coast somewhere (NY, I think), one in Texas, and one in SFSU (San Francisco State University).

I was fortunate enough to go to SFSU with my friends from Reno just to play Slash all day. To make a long story short, the trip was awesome, and Slash is awesome. While it doesn't feel as an extreme of a change from XX to #R, the changes are noticable. When I first started playing, I still found myself trying to option select throw... and often getting hit out of the air when trying to air throw. ^_^;; Added pushback is also very, very noticable, especially when one FDs. All bread and butter combos still work, but most of the time you need to be a bit closer for a move to connect.

The best part about Slash is this of course: Eddie is actually balanced! This deserves a by far. While he's still a very strong character, IMO, his changes have no longer made him "OMFG IT'S EDDIE". In other words, he's not some huge unstoppable tyrant like he was in XX and #R. Flying has been nerfed considerably, j.K hit box is smaller (thank god), all shadow moves do less damage, and the Eddie shadow no longer increases guard gauge (best change)! While his pressure game remains the same, his combos are weaker in general. Think of it this way: in #R, Eddie pressure usually upped your guard gauge quit a bit, and one slip up usually led to a 50% or more combo even if the shadow gauge was lower... which could also lead into a nasty unblockable, almost killing you. Now, in Slash, since his combos do less damage in general and there's no longer guard gauge build up from the shadow, Eddie needs about a full shadow meter to do a combo into unblockable in order to do the damage he did in #R. On a side note, the unblockable is harder to do too.

I played a few characters in Slash: Sol, Ky, Order Sol, and Robo-Ky, though I mainly experimented with the new Sol and oddly-unique Order Sol. I never once got to complete a full Sidewinder loop (9 times out of 10 I got a running bandit revolver when trying to run in for command grab due to the sticks being P360s), but I was starting to get the hang of getting the first Clean Hit down. Sol, in general, is still really, really strong. In fact, it's debatable that he's the best character in the game, due to the changes to many other high-tier characters and him being left relatively unchanged. Even without dust loop, Sol is still very strong. His mix up is strong, his pressure his strong, and his combos are strong. Overall, he's one of the best characters in the game at this point.

Order Sol, on the other hand, seems to have a lot of potential or will continue to be a lacking character. Hopefully he'll become much better once console version comes out. He's odd, to say the least. His Action Charge system is interesting, but it can often limit him in combos. His more damaging combos often require at least 50% tension and a level two special (like RCing a level 2 Rock It into an air combo). His biggest weakness is his range, which is piss poor (and mentioned by Arcadia Magazine in his strategy section). However, his strongest points are his low jump, his very fast dash, and his special moves are all safe on block. That said, his pressure seems to be very solid... but, like I said earlier, his damage options aren't very high. Still, he seems like an interesting character. I'll have to experiment with him more next time I play Slash.

Hrm... I think that's about it for now. If you guys have questions let me know.

Let's make this a great thread once more!

Let's rock! ^_^v

Jam it back in, in the dark.

How's Ky?! How's Ky?! How's Ky?!

Anyway, I'm glad Sol's Dustloop is gone (and now, Sidewinder...) and that Eddie is being balanced. I haven't read much on Slash because I'm finally learning to play #R (a little late). So, what I'm wondering is if Ky still has the VT loop. I don't want to sit there and learn it if it's not going to be in Slash. And I'm guessing there is only a PS2 version planned?

COCONUT!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by SuperDK

How's Ky?! How's Ky?! How's Ky?!

Anyway, I'm glad Sol's Dustloop is gone (and now, Sidewinder...) and that Eddie is being balanced. I haven't read much on Slash because I'm finally learning to play #R (a little late). So, what I'm wondering is if Ky still has the VT loop. I don't want to sit there and learn it if it's not going to be in Slash. And I'm guessing there is only a PS2 version planned?

COCONUT!

Ky is really good now... his throw can be frced and rushdown is improved due to the new air heavy stun edge, also frc-able. You can choose between fast or slow ground stun edge to pressure the opponent and as well as for mindgames. The rest of his moves remain unchanged I guess.

With these new options, you should see what Ky can do when he corners his opponent...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Just when I'm really getting used to #Reload...

I'm still looking forward to this game (I wanted to meet Frenchie in SF to play Slash), but I'm curious: how have Millia, Bridget and I-no changed? Keep in mind I'm not very big on the fighting game lingo, but I do think I'm a decent player. I'm trying to prep for EVO this year, even though I'm sure I'll get my ass kicked in the first round.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by TheFrenchLlama

(9 times out of 10 I got a running bandit revolver when trying to run in for command grab due to the sticks being P360s)

It doesn't have anything to do with the sticks. Execution in Slash is much stricter. They were talking about this in the Sol section on Dustloop a while back. Another guy was having problems with Bandit Revolvers coming out instead, too.

It's a shame Order Sol ended up being pretty underwhelming. I think at this point everyone's more or less dismissed any chance of anything huge coming from him, but maybe kaqn can show everyone a thing or two at SBO. On the bright side, his Lvl 2 Savage Fang is absolutely awesome. I miss those first days when everyone thought OS was broken as all hell. The reactions during beta testing were hilarious at times.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, some days ago, I finally purchased my first Guilty Gear ever, Guilty Gear X2 #Reload ( XBox ). I don't know how you felt while playing a Guilty Gear game for the first time, but the variety of options, characters and so on is quite confusing. Which character would be the best for a beginner? How to get better? Should I refrain from using the thumbstick? Beginner, Easy or Normal difficulty?

Besides the confusion, I enjoy playing the game. Especially the artworks, the whole design and its soundtrack are superb.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Playing GG on the XBox controller is pretty awkward. Unless you feel really comfortable with it, I wouldn't recommend practicing there.

As for your other questions, I'm no GG expert. Practice with normal difficulty until you get the hangs of things. When you're used to the speed and controls and combos and movesets of whatever character you use, go on and play MANIAC MODE. It's as close as you're going to get to some decent training without a friend or playing online (which, from my experience, has some pretty bad lag).

FELIPE NO

I don't have any problems with the XBox controller, but I don't know if I should play the game with the digipad or the thumbstick. The normal difficulty isn't too hard, but I-No isn't really equal to my skills. I was able to beat her once ( with luck ), but fighting against her is mostly a humiliation. Even so, seems like I simply have to play the game more. I should get better over time.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

D-pad is best. Just easier to pull off moves that way.

Boss I-No is a cheap beast, but she's pretty simple to defeat. If you can't figure out where her ball attack is heading, then zip around and pull an Instant Kill on her.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Lewis

D-pad is best. Just easier to pull off moves that way.

Boss I-No is a cheap beast, but she's pretty simple to defeat. If you can't figure out where her ball attack is heading, then zip around and pull an Instant Kill on her.

If you can because she can like block it and stuff, then no more meter for you. I mean, she's a cheap shot, she might as well block any one-hit kills.

It's been a long-ass while since I played Guilty Gear.. like.. a year ago or more. Nonetheless, I still like it.

HOW IS JOHNNY BY THE WAY? When I saw some guy's combo of Johnny, I liked it very much (well, he MAY be short on hits but the pulling it off was awesome)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by TheDude

It doesn't have anything to do with the sticks. Execution in Slash is much stricter. They were talking about this in the Sol section on Dustloop a while back. Another guy was having problems with Bandit Revolvers coming out instead, too.

It's a shame Order Sol ended up being pretty underwhelming. I think at this point everyone's more or less dismissed any chance of anything huge coming from him, but maybe kaqn can show everyone a thing or two at SBO. On the bright side, his Lvl 2 Savage Fang is absolutely awesome. I miss those first days when everyone thought OS was broken as all hell. The reactions during beta testing were hilarious at times.

Well, no, the execution is not stricter. That would mean you'd need SF-style reaction times/execute to do certain combos and what not. The cancel system is still very lenient The reason it was difficult for me, at least, is that now the input system has been changed so that you can do running fireballs (so running Bandit Revolver, Bandit Bringer, Fafnir, etc.) can now be done. Diagnals in 360s are pretty precise, it's pretty easy to go over the diagnal when trying to do running command grab. With square gate Japanese sticks, the ones I normally use, this wouldn't be much of a problem, mainly because once the diagnal is hit, it's easy to leave the diagnal there and not accidentally do a fireball motion. This is why I dislike American sticks, 360s especially; it's easier to get execution errors because American sticks are typically circle based, not square based where it's much easier to hit diagnals. Hell, even when I play SF games, P360s give me trouble because if I'm not on the diagnal precisely, I'm considered crouching but not blocking low like I should be. I mean, I could imagine some people are used to P360s and won't have problems, but for someone who plays on Japanese sticks, square gate, it can pose a problem.

Anyways, here's a brief rundown on characters asked about in Slash:

Millia: she's the same, but her air combo has changed and she can no longer do disc trap set ups (knockdown from air combo into a delayed disc) from anywhere on the screen. Disc traps are, more or less, corner only now.

Buri-chan (Bridget): he's the same as well, but he was nerfed slightly. Or was he beefed up slightly? It's hard to tell at this point. Some stuff got nerfed (mainly some normals and his Roger Rush attack), but there seems to be more lockdown/mix up potential for him later down.

I-No: probably one of the most improved characters in the game. Her mix up is insane and a lot of her new, stronger air combos lead to knockdown, which resets her pressure game. She's the new Millia but with better, higher damage combos.

Johnny: really braindead and stupid now, IMO. His combos are retarded now (lvl 2 High Mist Finer, dash in, coin, lvl 2 High Mist Finer, etc. to get into corner), and level 3 Mist Finer is now comboable after it's over, which defeats the entire purpose of coin management with him. Then again, Johnny's style is really hard to balance just because of his design. Lower his damage and he's going to suck hard. Make it higher and he's going to be too good. Also, his new move, Jackhound, is pretty worthless by itself. It's okay for relaunch combos, but that's about it. Overall a bad move.

How ya doing, buddy?

*shrugs*

I saw them discussing something about stricter execution regarding Ky, too, so I figured that was the issue.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Nah. It's just a change in the input system, not stricter execution by any means. Most fighting games don't let you do running/walking fireballs. f, then a quick qcf+button is read as a dp motion. That's why you can't do walking fireballs in SF games. You have to go neutral first.

I was speaking idiomatically.

This just in: Slash will SUCK >=o


Well... maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell. My predictions / thoughts:


Eddie - Will still be in the top tier, as he can still lockdown the opponent from almost anywhere on the screen, and hold them in pressure for a fairly long time (even longer if you have meter for Drill FRC). He still has combos to unblockable which now take ~50-60% health off the opponent, in some cases without even requiring a complete Eddie gauge, While it's true this is nothing compared to his previous incarnations, the fact that most other characters can't do much damaage in Slash will end up being his saving grace.

Slayer - Less BDC time = far less useful BDC Mappa, but not much else. BDC j.P still works well as AA, FDC Bite still works from what I've seen. New Mappa Feint is funny, as you can even use it to cancel recovery ala Mist Cancel up close. Not as great as before, but he's still decent.

Millia - Has been toned down considerably, no longer in the top or even near it, now. No knockdown from aircombos or ground throw hurts her alot, as the opportunities for Disc mixup are now very few. Actual aircombo damage is slightly higher, but you now have a very tough time to actually get someone into said aircombo. Add this to her weak, low-priority normal attacks and you have the makings of a lower-tier character.

Sol - The fact that this guy can be considered the best or one of the best really says alot about this game. He still can't force damage well, as he really only has his command grab for that. Sol relies on the opponent making a mistake, and scoring damage off of Counter Hits mainly. I believe his Bandit Revolver mixup is now gone (after connected BR - running jump to either low AD or land 2K). BR seems to recover a bit later due to the second hit being a bit later than in #Reload. So, less mixup, far less damage from combos, a decent new move... and somehow Sol ends up being one of the best in Slash?

Dizzy - Yay, Dizzy sucks. Considered by some to be the absolute worst character in the game, as she now takes insanely high damage and has lost much of what made her good in #Reload. Her broken low dust (2D) has been weakened in that it's no longer cancellable to any special. So no more 2D XX Fish lol FTW. The fish also disappears if you hit Dizzy, which is nice. Her health is so low that it only takes something like 6 Volcanic Vipers to kill her now - awesome stuff indeed.


I suppose GGXX Slash is fairly 'balanced' at this point. But Capcom Fighting Jam was also quite 'balanced', but look where that got it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

**picks random characters that no-one will choose or like**

What about Testament? Zappa? Bridget? Jam?

FELIPE NO

I'm in agreement with Elyon about Slash...but moreso from looking at the game as basically another upgrade. I mean, GG is mostly ignored by a lot of potential fighting fans as is and another version of essentially the same game has the potential to drive away more people than it will bring in. Especially since it's iffy on a release outside of Japan at this point (one of the main gripes I've seen for #R was that it was only released domestically for Xbox and some of the people who MIGHT have been interested in it didn't have/want Xboxes or modded PS2's). And while the GG engine is probably the most advanced 2D fighting engine out there, it doesn't stop Slash from being more of the same...I needed to take a break from overplaying #R and I'm still debating whether or not to get excited over Slash (I was the same way once SF2 moved past Champion Edition...I was really into SF2, played a bit of CE, then didn't touch the series again until Alpha 2, where significant changes were in place). I definitely want to try the new characters and put the game through the ringer overall (despite me being an Eddie player), but 'underenthused' would be my overall take on it thus far. Just says how good of a game #R was/is (Sammy could probably release a 'Slash' upgrade patch for the Xbox #R). Still waiting for 'Guilty Gear XXX'.

I'm hoping for a decent online mode this time around though. Having top-tier listings for #R online and offline is not fun by any stretch, not to mention endless waves of "unblockable" high/low Ky scrubs.

As long as you guys are taking requests...What's the long-term outlook on ABA and Jam? Mostly, I've heard ABA described as being hard to use. And I'd expect Jam to be toned down, since she was near the top of the rankings in #R. I dabbled with her in #R a bit and I found her pretty fun to use overall.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

Still waiting for 'Guilty Gear XXX'.

I want to make numerous comments on that but can't choose one.

Anyhow, I'm probably one of the only few who wants to see what the hell they're gonna do with the story-line, instead of having Guilty Gear XX2/# Reload/Slash/Apricot/Dishwasher.

Also I wonder if they'll bring in another cheese Justice-like character?

And I wonder if they'll tone Jam down? Her (I forget what the name was but it was qcf+HS in EX mode) managed to win me a fair amount of Survival matches. And I'm like a novice to this game.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Wait, Capcom Fighting Jam was balanced? Were we playing the same game?

Glad to hear about I-No's upgrade. Maybe I'll start training with her again. Giggity.

Most amazing jew boots

*Sigh* I played Ky since GG...I can finally pull off the VT loop, although, only with a Greed Sever (which isn't very good...and this is #R, Xbox). I don't understand the Impossible Dusts or whatever.

Anyway, I also play Zappa I'm guessing I'm pretty decent with him. So did they nerf his 2HS hitbox with the ghosts?

And my little bro wonders about Chipp. He plays him a lot, and would like for Chipp to be at least decent in the upcoming Slash (even though I will probably never get to play it).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lndjyrWyEpk

Where Is this from?? i saw this and I almost had my jaw drop...Look at Sol. It looks like holy order sol.

Personally, been playing since GGX..It's a great game, great story, good mix of characters and it's not uberly rigged like MvC2...

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Furby

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lndjyrWyEpk

Where Is this from?? i saw this and I almost had my jaw drop...Look at Sol. It looks like holy order sol.

Personally, been playing since GGX..It's a great game, great story, good mix of characters and it's not uberly rigged like MvC2...

If you read the first couple of posts, or the rest of this thread, you'd know that Order Sol is from GG Slash.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Guys, where do I go to get good English info on Slash? I'm going to download the Jap ISO when it's released. I can't wait.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm pretty sure Shoryuken.com will have some info on their message boards. The Llama probably (see most definitely) knows of more sources than I do.

How ya doing, buddy?

Is slash actually going to have some kind of story behind it? Isuka didn't seem to have a story. Isuka felt more like they were testing the waters for their 2+ players game mechanics.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

like king of fighters. They have dreammatches and what not.

Btw, the game will also be for PS2 with more features including the M.O.M.

Jam it back in, in the dark.