Are RPG's getting worse every 5 years? (List your top 10 RPG's ever to help!)

Which time period were RPG games (averagely) the best?
Late 80's seemed just great to me with Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy starting out and I believe RPG's were at their peak early in the genres lifetime in the 1990-1995 time period.

My top RPG's ever, in order, are:

1. FF4
2. Shining Force CD
3. FF1
4. Shining Force 3
5. Dragon Warrior 3
6. Dragon Warrior 5
7. Dragon Quest 8
8. Super Mario RPG
9. Lunar The Silver Star (Sega CD)
10. Shining the Holy Ark
11. FF7
12. Paper Mario

1996-1999 was okay, some excellent shiners, but there was also a flow of junk coming out, just the same. 2000-2003 it seemed that the amount of junk coming out overshadowed the good stuff. And even moreso in 2004 to present.
I have a feeling that some people LOVE modern RPG's, but I also believe that people who have been playing RPG's as long as I have are going to have 90's RPG's in their top list-primarily.

So, what are your top RPG's in order, and how do you feel about the RPG genre over time?

Note:

The thread's point is not to just make a list of your favorite RPGs and then say which era your #1 game is from. You don't even need to make a list.

The idea is to discuss what you thought was/is the best time for RPGs, both console and PC, and whether RPGs have considerably worsened as platforms come and go.

The list helps give yourself an idea of how your favorite RPGs span out and through that consider what was the best era. Don't just list and gush.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

1. Valkyrie Profile
2. Lunar: Eternal Blue
3. Thousand Arms
4. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
5. Star Ocean: TSS

And those recent ones like Till the End of Time, Legendia, Shadow Hearts: Covenant and so on.

Basically I'm a 1996-2000 RPG type of guy since my introduction to RPGs started in about.. '98, pretty recently so I can't help but list those ones in about 6-7 years old.

But as seeing a lot of RPGs pretty much follow the cliched storyline of boy meets girl or boy has sister or boy promises revenge or boy seeks to be the best whatsoever or boy tries to save the world (oh no!) or something else you can see pretty much in every literature, modified with some tweaks but follow the same path, a lot of modern (hell, my top 5 would be at least modernized too to an extent) RPGs are pretty flat regardless of extras or beautiful-rendered cutscenes or style drawn whatsoever.

How ya doing, buddy?

2000-2003 for me. I'm the type of RPG fan that prefers the "SNES" type of RPG, similar to Golden Sun, or something of that sort. You could say I prefer the GBA/DS type of RPG over the typical RPGs seen on the major platforms.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Here we are. In order

1:Secret of Mana
2:Secret of Evermore
3:Seiken Densetsu 3
4:Final Fantasy Adventure
5:Breath of Fire
6:Breath of Fire III
7:Breath of Fire II
8:Chrono Trigger
9:Legend of Mana
10:Wild ARMS 2
(Sadly, my fanboyism shows with this list).

Everything started going downhill in '97, sure a few great titles showed up(Legend of Mana and WA2) but there really hasn't been anything since that time that was earth shattering(NO, FFVII was NOT God, it wasn't even that good of a game).

And being that I couldn't choose the two answers I wanted to, I'll just go ahead and say that between 1990 and 1996 were the best years for RPGs.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Choose 90-94

More likely you like that than 95-99...

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

1. FF4
2. Shining Force CD
3. FF1
4. Shining Force 3
5. Dragon Warrior 3
6. Dragon Warrior 5
7. Dragon Quest 8
8. Super Mario RPG
9. Lunar The Silver Star (Sega CD)
10. Shining the Holy Ark
11. FF7
12. Paper Mario

Well. You should *definitely* try Shining Force III Book 1 for Saturn. If you enjoy it, burn the others and play them. SFCentral.com I think it is has full text translations for all three books. Beware the horrid voice acting in SFIII though ;( I played SFCD and enjoyed it immensely. I should download it again soon :3

Shadow Hearts I & Shadow Hearts II: Covenant. Play them. #1 might feel weak or have bad voice acting (but it isn't often so no worries). It grows on you. Then you play Covenant. Personally, I rented SH1 and my attention shifted. One thing to bear in mind -- it isn't faithful to the era technologically. If you can't get past this point, the inaccuracies will bother you waaaaaay too much. Shadow Hearts uses real-world people, places, and events with them mixed into the story.

I saw Covenant for pre-order a few years later with an offer -- get SH1 for free with it if you did so. I preordered and once I got it, I played through and finished SH1. Then I hopped right into SH2.

Best gaming follow-up EVER. The ending to SH1 (good or bad) typically meshes with SH2's plot. The acting is fantastic, voices are perfectly assigned, and gameplay is very intriguing. The storyline is incredible and character development is top-notch. SH1 is a very dreary, serious game. SH2 is very light-hearted but it still has flashes of cruelty from SH1.

SH3 builds off of the gameplay from this even further, but I am halfway through it and must say it lacks #2's magic. Possibly because there are no characters from 1 or 2. Still, it is fun. But it only makes me want to return to #2. If they really intrigue you, try playing Koudelka. Koudelka is a prequel to SH1, as a few characters tie them together.

Try Lunar: SSS & Lunar: EB for PS1. They are wonderfully redone, although SSS's depiction of Ghaleon is a bit off. The storyline makes him out to just be entirely evil, unlike CD which had an underlying premise to what he was doing.

Suikoden I & II are also real gems, primarily the latter. I hear Suikoden V is going to be just like I & II if not better than them. I've yet to hear a single negative review.

I seem to have moreso modern RPG opinions, but I'm an old RPG fan. I've been playing since DQI & FFI. They are getting better, believe me. Just hafta keep your ear to the ground.

I could suggest more, quite possibly.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You just need to be more open and try new game series'. No shit you are going to be disappointed if you simply keep away from new franchises and only pay attention to the mainstream RPGs. There are other games besides sequels to classics, ya know? I couldn't possibly choose between eras because I have games I loved to death from the mid 80's all the way up to this year. I never personally felt any sort of "dry spell" or weak time for RPGs.

If anything, it has gotten better if for no other reason than because we get more games than ever these days. (as opposed to only getting a handful of the good releases back on the nes/snes)

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I actually do stay away from main stuff now. FF12 will be the first FF game ever made that I will not buy. (besides FFX-2 which is the current only FF i've never bought in my life).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Do strategy RPGs count? Because if that's the case, it would be tied with my number one RPG...

1. Valkyrie Profile
2. Chrono Trigger
3. Suikoden II
4. Final Fantasy IV
5. Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
6. Star Ocean: The Second Story
7. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
8. Lunar 2: Eternal Blue
9. Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
10. Tales of (Insert word here)

I'm suprised no one has put up Persona yet...am I the only one who liked that game? As for the 'Tales of' series, I couldn't decide which one, because I liked pretty much all of them. There were a few more RPGs that deserve respect, like Shadow Hearts and the Breath of Fire series but I just couldn't put them up there with the rest.

Me, I liked the set that came out between 2000-2003...Star Ocean II, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 2, Lunar 2, some of the 'Tales of' series was also released between those years. The latest RPGs have been lackluster I'll admit, like Magna Carta, a game that I had anticipated, and though I thought it was good, it didn't meet the standards that I had set for it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

There have been some relatively recent gems namely Valkyrie Profile. Here is my bias:

1) Valkyrie Profile
2) Wild Arms 4
3) Wild Arms 3
4) Wild Arms
5) Romancing SaGa 3
6) Secret of Mana
7) Grandia 2
8) Terranigma
9) Tales of Phantasia
10) Final Fantasy V

I had genuine fun with the top 7 of them. Valkyrie Profile is easily my favourite with all the overkill finishers and incredibly ingenious story, different from most others.

As for Wild Arms 4...LOVE the hex system and overkill princesses Yulie and Raquel. Breaking past "9999" is always attractive to me in an rpg. The Wild Arms system in general is also very sexy (they really fight for second place with me), because I'm just a sucker for the way how in all the games, the strangers just coincidentally meet and then journey on. Together, the strangers get involved in much grander plans than they originally intended. Lots of references to familiar concepts in the games too, and ARM means something different but equally dangerous in each game. This should be saved for a Wild Arms Appreciation thread though.

8) and 9) annoy me in the fact that I got REALLY far in them, but never actually beat the game.

10) was lots of fun trying to master every job by wandering around in the Cleft of Dimension to be able to use any skill you wanted after fighting lots and lots of Movers.



Most newer games are skimping too much on the endings (eg. Radiata Stories :@) and always have some kind of glaring flaw that detracts from how good the game could fully be (eg. recruiting Claudia? That took me hours and hours and she was pretty weak in comparison to the effort and times required)

I admit that even my almost-most favourite game, Wild Arms 5, felt like there could have been a better ending, but it definitely wasn't as terribly dissatisfying as Radiata Stories.

I can still rely on blockbusters like Final Fantasy to give me the endings I crave (nice touch in FF X with that corny but touching moment at the end...you know which one I mean ) As well as for a decent battle/menu system.

The offshoots (yes Radiata again) try new stuff, but I'd rather they fix certain flaws (the time thing...ugh!) to make them even better.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It goes in cycles, since 2001, there has been mediocrity. But this year seems to finally break the trend. Does it always take a Final Fantasy to give other RPG publishers enough of a kick in the ass to try to make a decent RPG:
Here's some great RPGs (I haven't played too many RPGs if you can't tell already, oh and it's in no particular order):

Diablo II
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy VII
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Dark Cloud 2

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

There are a lot of RPGs that I like, so it's tough, but I'll try in no particular order:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Super Mario RPG
Final Fantasy Tactics
Ogre Battle 64
Star Ocean 2
Deus Ex
Legend of Mana
Valkyrie Profile

I grew up with the 16-bit era (started with 8-bit, but I didn't have much of an awareness of the RPG genre at the time), and even going back to play RPGs that I missed from that period, I still find myself enchanted by the older approach that leaves some room for imagination. I like the idea of going out to a mysterious dungeon and essentially making the story happen. Even today I get more immersed in games like Breath of Fire V and SMT Nocturne that essentially use gameplay to tell the story rather than inundating you in dialog. I can't say that I'm fond of the interactive movie approach of many RPGs today. Ironically it's what is likely my favorite RPG (Final Fantasy VI) that did something to push things in that direction, but that one had the right balance in my opinion. So it comes as no surprise to me that some folks from today who claim to play for story find themselves annoyed with the World of Ruin. For me the World of Ruin is essentially what propels the game to greatness with its more open ended approach. (not that the first half isn't awesome, but the freedom of the second half brings balance) Unfortunately it was only the first half that had far reaching effects in the genre. It should've been for the better but Final Fantasy VII (which I do personally think is a pretty good RPG regardless) has ensured that a perversion of the good things which now do more to take the player out of the game for the purpose of putting the story first have had the greater influence. For me to find myself immersed in an RPG, the game needs to find a way of letting me push the story foward here or there without making me feel like I'm just on rails with the only input being the clicks through waves of dialog and cutscenes. It can be as simple as a game having some fun skill systems to tinker with in the meantime, but although it's hard to pin down what I'll really like or won't care for, I know that I gravitate towards RPGs that use their stories to serve the gameplay and not the other way around. It's the interaction between the player and the game that makes gaming special, and RPGs should be at the forefront of this by using the set up of the story as an opportunity to create exciting gameplay and an immersive world.

I surely have a soft spot for the late NES to late 16-bit range of RPGs the same as you. So I do have this feeling that RPGs as a whole haven't been quite as good since. But there are still standouts from the generations that have come after that deserve mention as well. So I won't go as far as to say that RPGs are getting worse. Just that they seem to have to do more to keep my attention for some reason. I think it varies from person to person depending on which RPGs they played first and on their individual tastes. The same as I see many PS1 RPG fans claiming that PS2 RPGs have been disappointing, we'll likely see PS2 RPG fans at some point claiming that PS3 RPGs don't seem to measure up.

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Originally Posted by Megavolt

There are a lot of RPGs that I like, so it's tough, but I'll try in no particular order:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Super Mario RPG
Final Fantasy Tactics
Ogre Battle 64
Star Ocean 2
Deus Ex
Legend of Mana
Valkyrie Profile

I grew up with the 16-bit era (started with 8-bit, but I didn't have much of an awareness of the RPG genre at the time), and even going back to play RPGs that I missed from that period, I still find myself enchanted by the older approach that leaves some room for imagination. I like the idea of going out to a mysterious dungeon and essentially making the story happen. Even today I get more immersed in games like Breath of Fire V and SMT Nocturne that essentially use gameplay to tell the story rather than inundating you in dialog. I can't say that I'm fond of the interactive movie approach of many RPGs today. Ironically it's what is likely my favorite RPG (Final Fantasy VI) that did something to push things in that direction, but that one had the right balance in my opinion. So it comes as no surprise to me that some folks from today who claim to play for story find themselves annoyed with the World of Ruin. For me the World of Ruin is essentially what propels the game to greatness with its more open ended approach. (not that the first half isn't awesome, but the freedom of the second half brings balance) Unfortunately it was only the first half that had far reaching effects in the genre. It should've been for the better but Final Fantasy VII (which I do personally think is a pretty good RPG regardless) has ensured that a perversion of the good things which now do more to take the player out of the game for the purpose of putting the story first have had the greater influence. For me to find myself immersed in an RPG, the game needs to find a way of letting me push the story foward here or there without making me feel like I'm just on rails with the only input being the clicks through waves of dialog and cutscenes. It can be as simple as a game having some fun skill systems to tinker with in the meantime, but although it's hard to pin down what I'll really like or won't care for, I know that I gravitate towards RPGs that use their stories to serve the gameplay and not the other way around. It's the interaction between the player and the game that makes gaming special, and RPGs should be at the forefront of this by using the set up of the story as an opportunity to create exciting gameplay and an immersive world.

I surely have a soft spot for the late NES to late 16-bit range of RPGs the same as you. So I do have this feeling that RPGs as a whole haven't been quite as good since. But there are still standouts from the generations that have come after that deserve mention as well. So I won't go as far as to say that RPGs are getting worse. Just that they seem to have to do more to keep my attention for some reason. I think it varies from person to person depending on which RPGs they played first and on their individual tastes. The same as I see many PS1 RPG fans claiming that PS2 RPGs have been disappointing, we'll likely see PS2 RPG fans at some point claiming that PS3 RPGs don't seem to measure up.

I grown up around 16bit games, but didn't get very much RPG exposure until the early 21st century. For me 16bit RPGs have been an aquired taste, which Chrono Trigger has made easier to aquire.

I was speaking idiomatically.

My list (constantly changing...Probably something else entirely on the old forum):

1. Valkyrie Profile
2. Star Ocean 2
3. Final Fantasy VI
4. Suikoden 2
5. Ys VI
6. Chrono Trigger
7. Growlanser 2
8. Atelier Iris Eternal Mana
9. Fire Emblem (the first GBA one)
10. Wild Arms 2

As far as years go, it's kind of tricky to pinpoint where I'd fall into. 2000-2003 had some real gems (namely Valkyrie Profile, Disgaea and GBA Fire Emblem and probably the first Grandia...Dunno if people count Dewprism as an RPG, but I liked that one too), but this was basically the era of basically every major RPG I had waited on tanking or ending up pretty mediocre at best. This is something of a gap in gaming history for me...Next-gen games weren't up to snuff and older era stuff (PS1) was being pushed beyond what the systems could reasonably handle and frankly, weren't that much fun. I spent most of 2001-2003 replaying and catching up on SNES games, outside of Klonoa 2 and Smash Brothers Melee.

I started playing RPG's in 90-94 and a lot of great classics came from that era I remember (Dragon Warrior 3 and 4, the NES and SNES Final Fantasys), but really, the selection pales in comparison to some of the later years (and FFVI was the only one of that group to make my list). 95-99 was pretty good, if only for Chrono Trigger and Mario RPG early on and then the RPG boom from 97 and on.

I have to say, I'm forced to vote for the 2004-present option. We have so many options now, it's silly and the selections I've picked out for myself thus far have yielded some real classics (see list). There's more SRPG's than ever before and more publishers overall (and more of a desire for Japanese companies to bring their games over) and not enough time to play everything, which is a problem I wish I could have had back before I entered the "real" world of work, bills, etc. There's still games out there I would gladly buy (Grandia 3, Wild Arms 4, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Fire Emblem Sacred Stones, the Digital Devil Sagas and Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne) but haven't because of lack of time. And there's more than enough coming out this year I'm drooling for (lead by Valkyrie Profile 2, Atelier Iris 2 and Suikoden V, which I may just drop everything and play for 40 consecutive hours once it's out).

The present wins by way of sheer numbers and overall variety, in addition to several great games.

Edit: Woo-hoo, I'm the only who thinks we're in the "golden years" for RPG's now!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Fallout 2
3. Fallout
4. Final Fantasy 6
5. Baldur's Gate 2
6. Dragon Quest 4
7. Chrono Trigger
8. Wild Arms 3
9. Paper Mario
10. Lunar 2: Eternal Blue (Sega CD)

I worship at the fount of FF6 and CT too, but Square originally built its fanbase on quality. RPGs pretty much peaked in the 90s, and with few exceptions we've been in recession ever since. RPGs like everything else have succumbed to the siren's call of graphics = all, and there's no involved gameplay to distract one from the fact that the stories these games bank on are pretty awful. My picks either boast geuninely well-written scenarios, worthwhile gameplay, or in several cases both.

Yes, motherfucking Paper Mario. After going through shit title after shit title on the PS2, firing up an emulator and playing Paper Mario was a breath of fresh air. Involved gameplay, and a storyline that doesn't take itself too seriously. It beats the unholy shit out of Final Fantasy 7.

FELIPE NO

Paper Mario was an RPG?

I hate doing this, so much.

1. Chrono Trigger
2. Landstalker
3. Disgaea
4. Final Fantasy VII
5. Final Fantasy VI

Here's 5. I really can't think of any others which I liked. Just looking at people enjoying titles like Atelier Iris makes me wonder if there's something wrong with me, or whether I'm destined to hate games.

1995-1999 was the best period, because Tactics, VI, VII, VIII, Chrono Trigger and Tactics Ogre were made then.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Are we counting Final Fantasy Tactics as a RPG? It's more of a TBS in it's battle system?

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If it isn't an RPG, what do you consider it, then? It has the same system as Tactics Ogre, Disgaea/Nippon Ichi titles, and they don't have a catagory apart from "RPG."

Well, actually, the japanese box of Disgaea says sRPG, but I'd say it still counts.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Elixir

If it isn't an RPG, what do you consider it, then?

It could easily be considered (confused with?) a strategy game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

So you'd rather group Final Fantasy Tactics with Command & Conquer and Starcraft?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Elixir

So you'd rather group Final Fantasy Tactics with Command & Conquer and Starcraft?

It's possible (though C&C and Starcraft are both RTS, while FFT is TBS). The fact that FFT has a fantasy story and RPG elements does not make it a RPG outright - just like how the movie Alien isn't a sci-fi movie outright - it could be considered horror)

I was speaking idiomatically.

Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenogears
Final Fantasy 6
Chrono Trigger
Front Mission 3
Final Fantasy IX
SaGa Frontier 2
Ogre Tactics

Thats about all I can come up with. There are other RPGs I played - FF7, FF8, FFX, Vandal Hearts, Xenosaga - but either didn't like or can't remember much about them.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by LeHah

Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenogears
Final Fantasy 6
Chrono Trigger
Front Mission 3
Final Fantasy IX
SaGa Frontier 2
Ogre Tactics

Thats about all I can come up with. There are other RPGs I played - FF7, FF8, FFX, Vandal Hearts, Xenosaga - but either didn't like or can't remember much about them.

Vandal Hearts 2 was bloody amazing... you should check that one out.

FELIPE NO

Including Strat based stuff then

Disgaea
Vandal Hearts
Final Fantasy Tactics

also rank in my list. They did much right with all the exploding exaggerated attacks in Disgaea, as well as the very colourful depiction of the netherworld.

Vandal Hearts was loads of fun, for some reason I can't pinpoint. It could have been the class changing options, or the blood fountain inducing attacks.

Tactics required careful strategy which I respected a lot. Lots of memorable moments such as being stuck at the execution site battle, beating Queklain with Agrias, and my favourite: Nuking the entire field in the Izlude Battle with a Calculator who used Level 4 Holy.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

1. Vagrant Story
2. Final Fantasy Tactics
3. EarthBound
4. Suikoden II
5. Final Fantasy VII

I can only put down five that really seem "list worthy" to me. From this generation, I'd be inclined to include Tales of Symphonia and Baton Kaitos, but those are the only two that come to mind.

I didn't play an RPG until 1995's EarthBound, and even after that it was some time before the genre became a staple in my gaming diet. Has the quality gone down for me? I don't really think so. I think the market has become somewhat flooded though, so there's a larger crap/gem ratio. I think my biggest problem today is trying to figure out which game to spend my time and money on.

Jam it back in, in the dark.