A ban on plastic grocery bags?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070328/D8O4T7900.html

Quote:

By LISA LEFF

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - City leaders approved a ban on plastic grocery bags after weeks of lobbying on both sides from environmentalists and a supermarket trade group. If Mayor Gavin Newsom signs the ban as expected, San Francisco would be the first U.S. city to adopt such a rule.

The law, passed by a 10-1 vote, requires large markets and drug stores to give customers only a choice among bags made of paper that can be recycled, plastic that breaks down easily enough to be made into compost, or reusable cloth.

San Francisco supervisors and supporters said that by banning the petroleum-based sacks, blamed for littering streets and choking marine life, the measure would go a long way toward helping the city earn its green stripes.

"Hopefully, other cities and states will follow suit," said Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi, who crafted the ban after trying to get a 15-cent per bag tax passed in 2005.

The 50 grocery stores that would be most affected by the law argued that the ban was not reasonable because plastic bags made of corn byproducts are a relatively new, expensive and untested product. Some said they might offer only paper bags at checkout.

"I think what grocers will do now that this has passed is, they will review all their options and decide what they think works best for them economically," said David Heylen, a spokesman for the California Grocers Association.

Newsom supported the measure. The switch is scheduled to take effect in six months for grocery stores and in one year for pharmacies.

Craig Noble, a spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said it would be disappointing if grocers rejected the biodegradable plastic bag option, since more trees would have to be cut down if paper bag use increases.

The new breed of bags "offers consumers a way out of a false choice, a way out of the paper or plastic dilemma," Noble said.

I mainly heard about this because I work at a grocery store, but I thought it was worth posting since to some people it might seem so odd a decision.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I wonder if those "easily compostable" bags are able to withstand the heavy weights that regular plastic bags can.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I don't see the harm.

A ban is a little unnecessary though - I think it should be an at-will kind of thing, where it's greatly encouraged.

I DO see a lot of plastic bags and shit floating around out here, but some places I shop at don't offer ANY bags and I make do. Bring your own bag for shopping for smaller items, and use the cart for larger things to your car.

It sounds like a good way to reduce crap, if you ask me.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh no, now the people of San Franciscoiscocoisco will miss the joy of a plastic bag caught in an updraft. Parents will have to take their kids to other cities on the weekend to witness the event! Will the Golden Gate and the lesser known Silver and Bronze bridges be able to handle such an increase in escaping traffic each and every Saturday? The mayor should have thought about this before doing something so reckless as to ban plastic bags!

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Wait, I don't get it, I thought plastic bags were recyclable? I always put useless plastic bags in the recycling bin and since it falls under the category of plastic. Is the ban because plastic bags were too rampantly seen strewn across the streets or something?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Summonmaster

Wait, I don't get it, I thought plastic bags were recyclable? I always put useless plastic bags in the recycling bin and since it falls under the category of plastic. Is the ban because plastic bags were too rampantly seen strewn across the streets or something?

I think they are, but people most people just throw them away. Paper bags usually get recycled because people use them to put their newspapers out.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Summonmaster

Wait, I don't get it, I thought plastic bags were recyclable? I always put useless plastic bags in the recycling bin and since it falls under the category of plastic. Is the ban because plastic bags were too rampantly seen strewn across the streets or something?

I'm thinking because people either throw them out after one use, or they just litter them wherever else. Secondly, they're probably not biodegradable because that's just the downside to plastic. :/

This really makes a person wonder how much useless shit the human race could cut back on to help not pollute the environment with.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Long story short: People care too much about trivial shit.

Get out.

FELIPE NO

The real answer! Taken from this site. Yeah, other people said the same thing, but this goes into more detail.

Quote:

Are paper bags better? Let's compare paper and plastic. Plastic bag production requires 40 percent less energy, results in 80 percent less solid and 94 percent less waterborne wastes, and generates 70 percent less air pollution than the manufacture of paper bags. Plastic bags also take up less room in landfills.

But many plastic bags are littered or fly away, where they clog up sewers and waterways, become entangled in vegetation and fences, and get caught in the throats of animals. Plastic bags are found in the stomachs of sea turtles and on the shores of remote islands. Once plastic bags are in the environment - whether in a landfill or polluting a lake - it can take hundreds of years for them to decompose, and they contribute toxins to the soil and water as they do.

And paper bags? Although they are more likely to be recycled (about 10 to 15 percent), the environmental impact is staggering. Beyond enormous energy costs, 14 million trees in 1999 alone were cut down to manufacture the 10 billion paper grocery bags used by Americans.

On the other hand, canvas bags are strong and reliable, don't tip over, hold more than plastic bags, and are good for the environment. Take them shopping today!

Ouch. It looks like paper and plastic bags are crap. I never tried a canvas bag before though.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Summonmaster

Wait, I don't get it, I thought plastic bags were recyclable? I always put useless plastic bags in the recycling bin and since it falls under the category of plastic. Is the ban because plastic bags were too rampantly seen strewn across the streets or something?

I'm going to put a more positive spin on your stupidity. You are at least providing employment for some guy to SEPERATE THAT TRASH FROM THE RECYCLING. I suppose you're one of those guys who puts pizza boxes in the recycling too? Plastic bags are only recyclable in the sense that you can use them again.

Originally Posted by Matt

I wonder if those "easily compostable" bags are able to withstand the heavy weights that regular plastic bags can.

You've never seen one? They're tough! They feel thicker than plastic bags.

How ya doing, buddy?

-_- So I guess pizza boxes are classified as spoiled cardboard then...
I guess that's why we're not allowed to put Tim Horton's coffee cups or plastic juice box caps in the recycling either :s

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I once saw some plastic bag recycling bin at my grocery store, but having people actually use it would be a very rare occurance. I usually reuse these bags into trash bags (for smaller trash cans) and such. I'm not one to easily throw away perfectly good bags. Although I see the harms in paper production, we really just need to encourage paper recycling instead. I'm pretty sure paper bags are made of recycled paper (and if not, should be), and it would probably be recycled anyway. But reusable bags are the way to go, it seems. Even if everyone would think you're some dork if you do use canvas bags. I should try it out some day.

How ya doing, buddy?

So what exactly are people with dogs going to use to pick up puppy-stools during their walks, how durable are those compostable bags, durable enough to not worry about poo-hand?

I'd be happy with a strait-up dog-ban instead.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Canvas bags... wouldn't they be expensive? Even if they are durable and stronger then both paper and plastic, wouldn't they cost us more?

And what about people who shop A LOT? Like big families who fill up the cart. That would take a lot of canvas bags... or even paper bags at that.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Valeska

Canvas bags... wouldn't they be expensive? Even if they are durable and stronger then both paper and plastic, wouldn't they cost us more?

Yes, but as long as the handles don't tear, you don't have to throw them away afterwards. You spend a bunch of money initially so you never need bags again.

Most people don't do this already as a matter of convenience. If, however, a ban like this allowed stores to encourage canvas or cloth bag sales, it would mean more profit for the company, because they wouldn't be paying for manufacture and shipping of plastic/paper, and it would contribute to healthier environment policies.

At my work, a plastic bag costs the company a penny. A Paper bag costs five cents. Canvas bags, depending on where you buy them, cost about six dollars apiece. That's obviously a big difference, but the upside is that you can use them for anything--not just groceries.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Valeska

Canvas bags... wouldn't they be expensive? Even if they are durable and stronger then both paper and plastic, wouldn't they cost us more?

One would think that but it's not like they're gonna be handing out brand new canvas bags every time you go to the store, you'd just keep reusing the same bags as long as possible. This is what my family does for groceries too mostly because it's a habit we carried over from Mexico. Down there when we went to the markets we took our own cloth bags because vendors aren't required to provide any bags for customers like they are here.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Gavin Newsom

"Well guys this paper or plastic thing has come to a head; what a dilemma. I gotta great idea, let's legislate unnessarily and maybe throw in a tax. I just love meddling in business under the guise of environmental concern. It's so entertaining to watch those little entrepreneurs try to adapt. C'mon guys, let's rent a jet to fly over and piss on John Locke's grave!"

I wonder why SF is the most expensive place to live. Roll up to a hotel and expect to pay 48USD a night just for parking, and that's somehow considered a good deal.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

A few years ago, our government had the bright idea (for once) to put a Tax on plastic bags after one of our ministers saw it been done in another European country he visited.

The result was we would now have to pay 15c (US 20c) for each plastic grocery bag sold. Major supermarkets sell heavy duty plastic bags (capable of carrying 2 6-Packs of Beer) which are very sturdy (not one of mine has ever broke) for 30c but why fork out for those? Well...

The government sucked close to €1m in total out of an unprepared public in just a few weeks of the new Tax for every man, woman and child buying a plastic bag...

In a few months, people began carrying their own plastic bags with them as they already had invested 15c for each bag, why not re-use it when shopping again? This eliminated the possibility of the first days plastic bag becoming waste immediately...

People then realised that one could only use the 15c bags less then a dozen times before it became impractical due to holes, tearing etc. So people then purchased the 30c bags netting 15c for the government and 15c for the Supermarket on each of these heavy-duty bags...

In my case, I've discarded a 30c bag that I use 1-2 times a week for small minor indentals, ONCE in the past YEAR (as the handle gave way). I have 5 other similar bags that I use for major weekly shopping that are subjected to more harsh wear, these are replaced on average every 6-8 months.

Result: Major windfall for the government in the early stage and continues to generate a little revenue every day now. Reduction in the waste of plastic grocery bags by an estimated 85%.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Genthar

Result: Major windfall for the government in the early stage and continues to generate a little revenue every day now. Reduction in the waste of plastic grocery bags by an estimated 85%.

So the gov't and the "environment" win at the expense of the consumer and the business who manufactures plastic bags. I still don't see the justification in passing legislation and levying taxes just cause some people don't choose to be socially responsible enough to not litter.

20 US cents per bag? You guys are seriously getting ripped off. What's next, legislation to require the mandatory use of cloth toilet paper and diapers?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

If you can use that bag 20 times, then you're saving money in the long run because when you get bags from the grocery store you're just paying for them indirectly (Probably less than 20 times since they always give me way too many bags at my grocery store. I don't think I actually need them to double bag my bread, thanks.).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This is a great step but I have to go out and buy a canvas bag now.

For the longest time, super markets in SF have been offering a 5 cent credit back if you bring in old plastic bags and they don't double bag your paper bags (you have to pay extra). I think that was a previous law to prevent bag waste but obviously it didn't work.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I'm all about saving the environment. We can all afford to keep a few cloth bags in our cars and carry them to grocery stores. Why not? It saves the Earth and doesn't cost it much in terms of cash or effort. Simple decision.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by kat

This is a great step but I have to go out and buy a canvas bag now.

For the longest time, super markets in SF have been offering a 5 cent credit back if you bring in old plastic bags and they don't double bag your paper bags (you have to pay extra). I think that was a previous law to prevent bag waste but obviously it didn't work.

Trader Joe's does something similar, and also offers a percentage discount for customers carrying canvas bags. It's a step in the right direction, at least.

How ya doing, buddy?

A local grocery store a few blocks from where I live (mind you this is Austin, Texas) already stopped asking "Paper or plastic" and automatically assumes paper, or whatever bag you brought in to use. Although I noticed that the rolls of plastic bags are now hidden under the checkout counter like contraband, which brought a smile to my face when I went there a few days ago.

Usually, I grocery shop at a larger supermarket and carry a backpack and a canvas bag to carry my things in. While not enough to carry everything, I usually only end up with two or three plastic bags which I usually reuse in some fashion.

FELIPE NO