A Decision which Could Affect the Rest of My Life...

I had this posted in my journal but I thought maybe more people would take a look if I posted it in Advice forum... because I am really looking for opinions or experiences...

There is a girl that I have been close friends with for about 2.5 years.... a few days ago, we had a long discussion about each other and the potential future.

She likes me VERY much, and she said that I am the best guy for her that she has met since coming here about 4 years ago. But because of her boyfriend and stuff, she had never thought about loving me or anything, which I guess is only fair for her and her boyfriend. But she told me that she is going to break up with him and has been trying for almost a year with little to no success. The reasons why she has troubles is to complicated for me to explain here but mainly she saids he is not responsible, lazy, doesn't pay for the rent or the food... and doesn't help out at all. But she has been with him for such a long time, that I feel she needs the confidence from someone else that when it all comes down, someone is there to catch her, which is probably the reason why she hadn't made a move too largely. She is very honest and very nice and I know she is a sincere person.

She hinted to me that the next guy she will date will be the man that she will take the steps towards marriage and she basically told me that if I was really serious about being in a relationship with her that I would have to show the responsibility and really show her that I am serious and truly love her.

I have spent the past few days thinking about whether I am ready for this... and after some deliberation with some of my closest friends, and some of her friends I know... I think I will start making the steps towards it. I may be only 22 (She is 25) and many people say that is wasting my life away when I could be totally partying up with tons of different girls almost everyday. But I am not like that. I hate playing the game, guessing all the time and whatnot. I want a stable, satisfying, loving, stable relationship that can last for long years. I want to dedicate myself to one person so that I can concentrate on making her, me, and the people around me happy. I am really into her and whenever I see her I smile.

When I am around her, I listen to her talk, and I barely say a word because I love listening to her. I am usually a huge talker. Everything feels so right... She says that she has seen so many positives from me and that I am very close to fitting her criteria. She says that I am one of a very few set of people that sees what she really feels when she is upset or sad. She said that I am also very good at making her smile when she is sad and almost no one can do that.

What do you guys think? Everyone thinks its only a matter of time before her and I get together mainly because they have been watching us for a long time. Most of them say that she lights up so much after she sees me.

I am not afraid of marriage or having kids or being responsible.... the only fear I have is if I am good enough for her...

She is Chinese, but we communicate very well together. Actually, its kinda weird how we connect so well... I guess maybe people notice that. I hope to start learning more Mandarin as well to show her I want to give it my all...

Please tell me your thoughts.... I know its probably hard to say anything for advice, etc., since many of you have never met me, but I wanted to write something to let it all out.

What do you think? Have you been in an experience like this before? If you are married, how did you deal with it? What do you think I should do? I think for the most part I have made a decision, but I am curious what other people may think.

Thanks for the reading the long thread.

The Wise Vivi

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You can't go into a relationship saying to yourself "Yes, I must definitely marry this girl" just because she says that that is what she is after. It's far too naive to assume you will both fall in love and stay in love and weather the storm of future and unpredictable conflicts long enough to want to get married.

I don't think you should put yourself under so much pressure before you're even dating this woman. If this is a concrete demand of hers before you can get together, then she's being unreasonable and you should look elsewhere. If it's just something she hopes will happen, understanding that there are plenty of Ifs and Buts along the road, then go ahead and date her and have fun.

I don't think you can honestly say for certain any more than she can that you want to get married to someone you haven't even dated yet. Friends for years is one thing, dating is another. There's no rush; keep your options open.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I saw three very serious flags:
"coming here about 4 years ago"

"But she told me that she is going to break up with him and has been trying for almost a year with little to no success. "

"she is Chinese"

Let me tell you... you are asking to be hurt. I am Chinese and I've dated A LOT of Chinese girls. The ones that come from overseas are the worst... usually clingy, and very needy. But on the flip side they are very affectionate (but that is only because they are inseucre and "need" someone hence the overseas thing). VERY TRICKY... the affection and sincerity is VERY appealing and DECEPTIVE... Seems like they love you, but they really don't.

Since she can't break up with her boy, it's obvious she can't let go of him yet. And if she did, it would be a sham. If you dated her (are you even dating her) and he came back in the picture she would fall for him again in no time. I promise you that she will leave you in a second without second thought. No matter how lazy, unreasonable, stupid he is, she will remain blinded by her "love". That's just what these girls are like.

The situation is retarded man. She is not honest or sincere either. Well, she might be at the moment, but she will not hesitate to change again either especially to give her "ex" a second chance since they have been "together so long". Don't believe it.

I'm assuming you're white? If she is a fluent mandarin speaker, I could see her using you as a rebound, but not as marraige. Chinese are stingy man, and they generally like speaking Chinese. Unless her current boyfriend is also white, I don't think you have much of a shot - too big a culture barrier no matter how hard you are willing to try.

I apologize in advance, for the harshness of this post, but I've just been through so many of these situations where the asian girl seems all for it but then decks out for no good reason (usually for the ex-bf) so I don't even sugar coat things anymore.

In a statistical sense you will lose, but I also speak from a biased point of view since I've had to put up with bullshit everytime I enter a scenario like this, so who really knows.

All in all, desipte culture, white/chinese, bf/gf, I say save yourself some trouble and don't go for it. 22 is still too young anyway.

<3rocket

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I don't know anything about this girl but the fact she's been trying to break up with her current boyfriend for a year is not a good sign. I'd be wary of her stability.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Doesn't seem like she's really that into you. If she really wanted to break up with her boyfriend then she certainly wouldn't wait almost a year to do it. And with you talking about being there to catch her it sounds like you're in love with her and she thinks you're a really good friend. I get the feeling you're the guy she comes to to complain about her boyfriend, who you only said was lazy and irresponsible. Doesn't sound like the greatest guy in the world, but you didn't mention any abuse or manipulation.

About her hinting at marriage or whatever, either you've misinterpreted something she said or, like rocketdog suggested, she's got some issues. If she does, it's not going to be anything you can fix. I get the impression that you want to save her from whatever it is you think is keeping her away from you and that might be warping your perception of the whole situation.

Either way, there's no way a relationship between you and her is going to work out, never mind marriage or kids. By all means stay friends with her, but don't keep waiting around for her to break up with her boyfriend. It's time to move on.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Just as a counterpoint to rocketdog's opinions, I'd say her being Chinese doesn't have as much bearing as he thinks it does, in my opinion. My girlfriend of 2 years is Chinese, and she's never displayed any of the traits he talked about, so I'd say that it really depends on the personality of the people in the relationship, and not on whether the people are Chinese.

That said, it's all well and good if she wants you to be responsible and serious and show that you really love her -- however, has she said she'd treat you the same way? It's only fair, after all.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

As Ulysses says, it's probably unwise to start with "I'll probably marry this girl" as the premise of a relationship. Someone who says that to you can't possibly be in possession of all their marbles, if ya ask me.

But hey, if you're really that into her, at the very least just tell her that you guys need to take this one step at a time, rather than having marriage in the back of your minds from day freakin' 1.

FELIPE NO

You guys make some good points, especially about the whole future thing be unpredictable. The problem she is having about breaking up with her boyfriend is that they have been living together and breaking up would mean that one person would have to leave, and that would probably be the one whose name is not on the lease form. It could be even worse if both their names are on it. It is also mid-school year, and the last thing she needs is a bunch of BS trying to find a new apartment while working about 40 hours a week just to make ends meet. There is not much I can do to help her into someplace else because I live in a dorm.

But if things keep moving closer between her and I, then I would definitely help her plan a way to get out and find a new place. I think the biggest thing is she wants to find some stability... and right now she doesn't know where to get it from. I mean, she is very head strong and works hard, and I know she isn't using me for a crutch or anything. I just think she needs a reason to move on.

You guys know how difficult it can be to make large changes in your life, and I think for her its even more difficult because she is Chinese and there is more pressure on her than on most people who are born in Canada.

Yes, I am white, and her boyfriend is Chinese.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by The Wise Vivi

But if things keep moving closer between her and I, then I would definitely help her plan a way to get out and find a new place. I think the biggest thing is she wants to find some stability... and right now she doesn't know where to get it from. I mean, she is very head strong and works hard, and I know she isn't using me for a crutch or anything. I just think she needs a reason to move on.

You guys know how difficult it can be to make large changes in your life, and I think for her its even more difficult because she is Chinese and there is more pressure on her than on most people who are born in Canada.

Yes, I am white, and her boyfriend is Chinese.

Even if it works out, and you make a successful pull, you're going to be in the middle of one helluva sticky situation in terms of ex-boyfriend. Maybe she can let go just like that, do you think he will do it also so easily? PLUS, she will always cave to his audience requests because they have "history".

its bad news man... bad news... but you gotta live and learn. My advice is to obviously not do it. But me personally, i have trouble listening to people so i'd probably do it anyway, get hurt, and learn the hard way.

So i changed my mind - I say go for it and see whta happens. But be braced to be fucked over, and to not be surprised if at the end you just wasted many hours trying to win her heart, thats all. but once agian, i'll say one last time, you are in an lose lose lose situattion right now.

ps. if she really is headstrong, and indepednat, she can find a way out herself... and find a place herself. if she can get out of her realtionship without you, then i say go for it. but if she needs you there... ftl

edit:
and just for credibility here is a quick rundown on my romance history

-had chinese gf just like the one you describe who left me after 2 years for an "old crush", so i can also speak from the "losers" perspective. (trust me it was hard for me to get over her and i put myself, and her through hell while doing it) which is why i sya her ex bf will be a pain in the ass (i sure as hell was)

-ive taken 2 chinese girls which same characteristics from the ex boyfriend. we dated for roughly 3-4 months each, but in the end they just went back to their ex boyfriend due to "history" (even after they slept with me... like wtf)

-ive taken maybe 2-3 chinese girls from nice, caring white guys (who were honestly better than me, just didnt have the culture bit).. relationship gnerally lasted 1 month
-i exclusivley date china/taiwan/japan ONLY, so i think im familiar with the market

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I have been exclusively dating Chinese, Japanese and Korean. I had a Korean girlfriend for about 6 months about 2 years ago. And I have been on many dates with Chinese girls for the past 6 months.

See, the thing is I love the culture and I have been understanding and experiencing that culture and language for about four years now. Although its nothing like actually being in China or Korea, I have learned a lot from the people around me, including some of the languages themselves. There are a lot of Chinese International Students at my University.

I know what you are saying about them going back to ex-boyfriend etc., and also about the kind of efforts you put in and in many cases, nothing comes positive. There was a girl I was in love with for about 2 years and I spent all the effort I could to woe her, but in the end she finally said no.... So I know what its like to be destroyed like that after all the effort. That is probably the main reason why I have been reluctant to go ahead this time.

I mean, what if I work my butt off for a year or more, and nothing comes out of it?

Additional Post:

I was just talking to her and she has said exactly what you said : "He is a very jealous man, and if you take him on, you are taking a very high risk." She told me she doesn't want to see me get hurt, and that it would be best to let her figure out a way out instead of me getting involved with something I probably shouldn't. She wants to have a simple life, and she considers me very special and doesn't want to see me get hurt.

At this point, I think it will be best for me to sit back a bit and take some time to wait to see what she does. She really wants to make changes in her life, and she is trying to her best to figure out the best way out. She said that I am everything she wants, but my timing is bad right now.

So, basically, the waiting game is what I am playing. At the same time, she is telling me to experience other women. But, for me, when I want something, I will wait for it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Hmm, I actually dont have very much to say until I saw your last reply:

At the same time, she is telling me to experience other women.

As a Chinese, and a girl, if I really love someone I doubt I'd ever say that to him. It sounds more like an excuse to get rid of you then actually meaning "go experience other women". (So she's expecting you to go look for some other girls, then ditch them for her when she's ready? >.>) She may be using you as a 'relif hut' and you are everything she's looking for because her bf isn't anything that she's looking for. I think the last thing you should worry about is 'Am I good enough for her?" A better question would be: Do you love this woman? Is she the one that you want to spend the rest of your life with? Does she really love YOU?

Just wondering, is she and/or her family like traditional Chinese or is she like a 'banana'? (White inside, yellow outside) As a traditional Chinese woman, 25 is an age to be worried about marriage and that may be why she's considering her next relationship has to be marriage related. Perhaps she may even marry her current bf just because she's at an age of marriage.

How ya doing, buddy?

See, warning flags go up for me at many of the points others have mentioned. One that hasn't really gone up is her idea of 'criteria'. Anyone going into a relationship and hunting for a spouse holding 'criteria' that someone has to meet is going into a relationship with a very skewed perspective on life. There's a lot of give and take in relationships, and the idea of criteria means that the other person will always fall short in some way. Always. That also means that she's going to find fault with someone and point out that he doesn't meet her criteria, so it's okay to move on to something else. Obviously I don't know if that's how she is, but I've seen it done quite a few times.

I would also like to throw in my opinion on culture. It's important to understand one another's cultures, but you shouldn't let culture be a determining factor of whether or not to date someone seriously. Cross-cultural relationships flourish all the time, especially white guy/chinese girl. I see it far more than any other (obvious) mix. My dad is white, my mom is Chinese. I have two aunts that married white guys. I have white friends who have married Chinese girls. It's not unheard of at all, and the 'cultural barrier' is overcome by love - because that's what a relationship is about, and as long as it's kept in mind, communication continues and the relationship can flourish.

That having been said, my personal advice would be to not push the matter any, but sit back and let it unfold while offering your support to your friend. It's up to her to make the steps necessary to free herself, so to say, and your move after that happens.

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To me with that last post you just set the outcome in stone.

At this point, she is blinded by attachment and not love. Even if she finds love somewhere else (ie. you) I don't think she has the capacity to let go of her attachment, and it will eventually win her over.

It is because of this property I don't seriously date girls who have not been 100% single, out of a relationship, for at least 3 months. That way you are somewhat sure you get the true headstrong ones.

You know, she even realizes she has this power over you and in a way knows you won't get anything from here which is why she would say "she considers me very special and doesn't want to see me get hurt."

You'd better back off, and most importantly, you better not "play the waiting game". It seems like your a nice guy vivi, because you can or even want to wait it out. We all want companionship, but I've seen this case before... I live in this community... these kind of girls have the ability to lead you on, make you think you have a chance, get all sincere on you, and they can really, really, really, stretch it out.

But i like to play all sides. Maybe im the one missing out here... maybe I myself haven't found happiness due to the fact I refuse to play this waiting game... *shrug. but perhaps thast why people like me and you are born!

I conclude to say, despiet all the above, the bottom line is that she has a jealous ex, and can't let him go. fuck that situation!!! You can find someone else man! Of 6 billion humans (well ok lets subtract 1 billion due to poverty, and uh, maybe another 3 billion due to race preferences), so 2 BILLION... I am SURE it is possible to find not someone better, but someone with a simliar mindset as you. Or at least an Asian chick who is off their ex, and lookin' for mature/serious love.

GOOD LUCK HF

I was speaking idiomatically.

She is traditional Chinese and wants a simple lifestyle. She believes that she needs to get this relationship over herself and that no one can or should help her. As many of you are saying, I should back off some. She feels that I am complicating things more than she would like as everything is already complicated. I cannot help however, to be falling in love with her.

She said to me, "I cannot be your girlfriend, but I will be the best friend as possible for now. I don't want to lose you, but I don't want you to be in this mess. Let me clean up the mess first, and we can go from there."

How ya doing, buddy?

Seems like you have a lot of thinking ahead of you, my advice and though it may not count for much. all I can say is to support her in her decision, allow her to clean up the mess she's talking about and then let her make the final decision if she asks for help then by all means offer help. I know what it feels like to be in love but not able to be near or help that person, but as I said before this is only my little bit of advice and does not mean much, other then That I wish you the best of luck in whatever happens.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, this is what I am going to do. I am going to spend more time with her, but rarely bring up the whole "I want to be your boyfriend", etc., stuff. I will just be the closest friend possible, and when the time comes, show her how much I care. At the same time, I will continue to spend time with other women and meet new ones. I figure this way I can stay off her back a bit while at the same time, supporting her. In the end, only the future will tell what she really feels and what she is going to do.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Yeah man I think it's been exhausted, the possibilities, the outcomes.
But your conclusion seems like a good one. Good stuff.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Thanks for everyone's help. I really do care for her and I am going to wait and do my best to get her. If it destroys me and I get my heart ripped apart again, then so be it. I am willing to take the risk.

We are going out for ribs tonight.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by The Wise Vivi

Thanks for everyone's help. I really do care for her and I am going to wait and do my best to get her. If it destroys me and I get my heart ripped apart again, then so be it. I am willing to take the risk.

We are going out for ribs tonight.

There is this quote. I forgot who said it and how it went exactly but it was something like love isn't seeing that you can live with the person but knowing you cant live without them. I know exactly how you feel about the whole party hardy thing and, if I were in your exact position, I would make the same decision.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well, things are looking more positive. We have pretty much forgotten about her boyfriend and everything, and we had a great time talking this afternoon for about an hour or so. I definitely made her very happy, mainly because she was having such a rough day earlier. I am glad that I can make people happy when they are upset.

We are going to have lunch together tomorrow possibly. At first she was reluctant, but I told her "If I can't handle your cooking, how can we go any further?" She laughed and agreed. So, she told me to call her tomorrow and we will meet up. She has also agreed to go to a movie next week with me.

Now that the emotional explaining etc. has all come out, we can both concentrate on building our relationship for the future. Once I get her happy, she smiles soooo much around me.

Anyway, just thought I would give you an update. Here and there I have been sending hints about us becoming something more, which will be very helpful for her to know I have never been thinking about "just friends".

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Sounds really good Vivi. However, there's a quote from Blade II:
"Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer"

Although you're, in my terms, DATING, what about her jealous boyfriend? I'd keep an eye out for yourself - he may be too immature to deal with the situation and come after you. Keep your eyes peeled!

Now, don't push her buttons anymore on this, but has she figured out how to lose her (ex)boyfriend yet? I'm just worried - just keep that at the back of your mind for now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Update:

Well, we talked some more tonight, and I made sure that I stayed away from her boyfriend and concentrate on what I want to be for her. She brought up her boyfriend into the topic later and stated that she ". . .thinks of me when she is with her boyfriend." She is trying to figure out how honest I am, and if I will remain loyal to her. I am slowly giving her the confidence she needs to leave him. I honestly believe she needs reassurance from someone in order to break the chain.

Her trust on me has increased tenfold since things started to get serious about a week ago. We will see how things transpire in the next couple weeks.

Yes, I will keep an eye on the other guy. Never know what is going to happen. But I will do what it takes...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Good luck, Vivi. I hope things work out for you. I remember all the second guessing and wondering. It is the worst. Hopefully, it won't be much longer. All you can really do, is wait for her to make her move.

Has she said anything about moving out yet?

FELIPE NO

Well, I found out today that she doesn't live with him. He is about a five minute walk though. Things might be easier than it first seemed....

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by The Wise Vivi

Yes, I will keep an eye on the other guy. Never know what is going to happen. But I will do what it takes...

Listen - This "I will do what it takes" sounds like you're too madly in love with her. Don't get so desperate - stay mature and just lend a hand for her whenever she needs it. And don't let it drive you crazy that you're not with her yet. Its a guy's weakness to want something so bad that they'll go to the ends of the earth to get it, driving them insane while doing so.

A "Five minute walk" from her supposively now 'ex-boyfriend'? Um, WTF why can't she move FARTHER away from him? Something doesn't seem right - like she wants to keep a leash on him/ keep a hold of him. I'd say girls are worse when they break out of a relationship than guys, because of the emotional attachment they had to their men that they're no longer with. It its tougher for them to move on the deeper the previous relationship was.

Just stay supportive of her for now, and keep her happy like you have been. It's up to her to clear her mind and break away 100% from this lazy, irresponsible, jealous douchebag. (Yes, I'm calling him a douchebag for a reason - any male that gets that way deserves the name).

She's trying to find out how honest you are? Pffft - she could figure that out quickly when she COURTS you.

Stay calm, collected, and strong. And yeah, uh, keep your eyes out there for the douche.

Jam it back in, in the dark.