[Multiplatform] Fallout 3 - Guns with Oblivion

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

I took it as a jab was all. Everything else is my sound and fury. I do wish there was more involvement past being critical, not that I didn't drive that into the ground already.

How?

How can you honestly become more involved past criticism? Game development isn't a democracy, unfortunately. It's a business, and it's grown into a big one, with all the trappings of big business, including media campaigns and the idea of "what's going to make the most money?" over "what's fun to play?"

That is why we have companies like EA that put out the same game every year with minor changes (their sports games). So how can you change this? Get into the business and work from within? No, because you can't create something new as a grunt, nor are you allowed to take risks as a designer because ONE flop can spell doom for a small company, and the big ones have embraced the idea mentioned above and won't let you risk their 20 million dollars' worth of money.

In order to *break even* at that budget size, you need to have at least 400,000 copies sold, give or take a few thousand (assuming the price of 50 bucks per copy). If your idea isn't guaranteed 400,000 sales, then forget it right out, and if your idea isn't guaranteed another 200,000, then you have to fight tooth and nail to get something. Nor can you be in charge of giving the green light to projects like that, because you are once more being overseen by others and they will fire you if you OK a flop that costs the company millions.

What Brady's doing is all that he can do, really. He doesn't have the funds to start up a company, acquire the Fallout license (which would be a massive deal in the cost of millions in of itself), and create Fallout 3 as a CRPG. He can't become an employee at Bethesda and convince them to abandon their insanely massive project and start over from scratch. The Fallout 3 train is already in motion, and ain't nothin' gonna stop it. Hell, ain't nothin' gonna stop the games industry. The bar's been raised too many times over the years, and the tech's become more and more complex, and people are always demanding more. More detailed textures, more complex and adaptable AI, more depth, more storyline, more content, more special effects, more, more, more, more.

Yeah, Elder Scrolls 5: Fallout is probably going to be the death knell for CRPGs. And it's probably going to be pretty damn popular, because it looks good and it's got "innovative" concepts. Hell, I'll admit it right now: I plan to play TES5: Fallout. I plan, however, to thumb my nose at Bethsoft, dust off BitLord, and pirate the damn thing. I'll probably wind up enjoying it, but not so much that I would spend 50 bucks on the thing (or whatever price companies charge nowadays).

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Originally Posted by The_Griffin

How?

Learning about actual game design. Reading developer interviews, go to Gamasutra, take a college course, become an intern, make mods, learn to write. If you like gaming, GET INVOLVED IN IT. Past just flapping your gums in internet dead space. Gamers are the whiniest fandom around, constantly arguing several different elements of enjoyment and such.

Rather than participate in faggotry, I would like it if we had more to the activity than people who speculate based off a limited view of the industry and as a mere consumer at that.

When I say make a change, I also say "realistically." Fallout's fucked in the mind's of the fandom, I conceded this. That doesn't mean it's too much to ask that people do more to learn about the industry and get involved if they insist on saying this is a travesty and that gaming is dead and oh my god it's all over.

No one said anyone had to become some worker on EA's payroll, but there was a slight hint that some people could do something other than flap their gums about how "man this sucks, fuck you Bethesda, Imma harass you and get back at you despite the fact that you're still probably going to make money because journalism on gaming is a PR machine!"

Based off one of Brady's entries, a developer just took a pot shot at the Fallout community. Who's got more cred to the common man, the community or the developer?

If all you want to look at is the failure rate, then go ahead. You'll see failure and not opportunity. You've got to take risks to be successful, fact of life there. I didn't say people should throw their lives away, I said they should contribute positively, even through things like little events on a message board.

If all you want to do is discuss games, there's nothing wrong with that. Do whatever it is that you're going to do. What I think is hilarious are people who call Fallout 3 the clarion call of doom to gaming, when this shit has supposedly, I don't know I just might not have been paying attention the past 5 pages been going on for quite some time.

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Yeah, Elder Scrolls 5: Fallout is probably going to be the death knell for CRPGs. And it's probably going to be pretty damn popular, because it looks good and it's got "innovative" concepts. Hell, I'll admit it right now: I plan to play TES5: Fallout. I plan, however, to thumb my nose at Bethsoft, dust off BitLord, and pirate the damn thing. I'll probably wind up enjoying it, but not so much that I would spend 50 bucks on the thing (or whatever price companies charge nowadays).

Victim complex. Again.

No one's killed your fucking mother, stop talking like this. A genre is dying, were you there for Freespace 2 and Space Sims on Computers?

It's such bullshit that no one makes mainstream text based adventure games.

> Type rebuttal to internet post

"I don't understand 'internet.'"

FELIPE NO

I just ask my friends how games are instead of reading internet reviews.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

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No one's killed your fucking mother, stop talking like this. A genre is dying, were you there for Freespace 2 and Space Sims on Computers?

I actually bought Space Force: Rogue Universe because it's the only privateer-esque space sim and it's mediocre at best.

The death of a genre never gets any easier. Instead of taking elements from text-based games that would enhance games in other genres they were discarded entirely. All we've gotten out of CRPGs are the stats, and that's not roleplaying.

Demanding that people get involved in the industry is honestly too much to ask, because they're already involved in other matters. To be honest, I actually used to want to be a gaming journalist until I figured my efforts would be wasted. Now I want to teach history.

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Based off one of Brady's entries, a developer just took a pot shot at the Fallout community. Who's got more cred to the common man, the community or the developer?

It was Allen Rausch, an editor for Gamespy who said in his official capacity as a Gamespy representative that Fallout fans should catch a disease and die.

He was also one of the marketing managers for Fallout Tactics (not a dev), so he hates a community because he tried to sell them a game that they didn't want.

He's a virtual nobody, and his opinion carries about as much weight as Fallout fans.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I actually bought Space Force: Rogue Universe because it's the only privateer-esque space sim and it's mediocre at best.

Right, dead.

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All we've gotten out of CRPGs are the stats, and that's not roleplaying.

Indeed, though the fact that the idea of just using stats emerged slowly kind of says something about people who only get bits and pieces.

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Demanding that people get involved in the industry is honestly too much to ask

Right, no shit at that? I do remember saying being involved could range from industry work, to just small little projects (yours) or just being informed beyond "this is a travesty." Of course asking everyone to just up and join the industry is ridiculous, I just used it as one example. It's amazing what we take for granted. Again, my point was/is that people get all up in arms, and the question becomes "Why should I care about what you're saying when you're not really saying anything that hasn't been heard before and echoing something because it's only affecting you at this one point in time?"

Did a pretty shitty job of explaining myself, so I guess I'll just level here. Often I read things like "Capcom isn't even trying" coupled with "Most of Capcom's fighting game guys aren't with the company anymore." It baffles me with these two points being established, that anyone could even say Capcom isn't trying, when they've already established that their talent for such things has flown the nest. I owe it to those involved here to define what the fuck I'm saying, as just letting people try to take a shot in the dark and understand what I'm incoherently rambling about is, to be blunt, asinine and fucking retarded of me. So, if you were to ask me "Define being involved", I would say "Doing anything ranging from recognizing and following the industry past cursory knowledge to actually trying to participate in it."

And, well, that is asking a lot. Stab me through the brain.

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He's a virtual nobody, and his opinion carries about as much weight as Fallout fans.

And the uninformed guy who reads it is gonna trust who? Yeah.

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No, right, I see what you're getting at. There are far too many people even in discussions that are all talk. It's never enough to simply say "Capcom isn't even trying," they actually have to demonstrate why. That's too much, though, when people are just trying to look for somebody that agrees with them.

In all discussions the burden is on participants to be informed about the subject matter, and to articulate their points with reason, not fall back on memes and talking points.

It's the biggest reason why I don't post at NMA anymore, because the influx of ESF members have created a general IQ crash, where new members are wishing 9/11 events on Bethsoft studios.

If that's what you're getting at, then I agree that nobody should be tolerating that bullshit.

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And the uninformed guy who reads it is gonna trust who? Yeah.

All the more reason to "inform" them.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I definitely need to work on not being hard to follow/convoluted, but yes, that's what the synapse firing in my brain was trying to get out this whole time.

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All the more reason to "inform" them.

Do what you do, man.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

The death of a genre never gets any easier. Instead of taking elements from text-based games that would enhance games in other genres they were discarded entirely. All we've gotten out of CRPGs are the stats, and that's not roleplaying.

Space Rangers 2 had text adventure parts and puzzles, but that was made by a bunch of crazy russians that stuck together just about every genre out there into one (amazing) game.

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As much as I do love Space Rangers 2, it's honestly the exception to the rule. If more games start incorporating text adventures that would be fantastic, but until then it's kind of sad that the only people getting this are the Russians.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

My favorite text-adventure puzzle was when they give you bad instructions and then after the puzzle's over blame it on poor translation between the alien languages.

FELIPE NO

http://games.ign.com/articles/806/806770p9.html

Well this is likely to make the people who think Bethesda can't make a good game thats not Elder Scrolls a little less worried.

And #2 at Gamespy. http://www.gamespy.com/articles/806/806191p27.html


Thats if anyone even cares. Which may not.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Depends on how much stock you put in IGN or Gamespy's opinions. The bigger the company or franchise name, the less eager they are to even breathe a negative word about the game.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Obviously. I would rather read such things like this then hear nothing, or not even have it on such a list.

I wasn't even aware they were demoing it to people.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Could someone put this in the RPG FORUM and set under MULTI. And maybe even change the Title

Well guys this is getting pretty close. After watching the two HD gameplay videos on the Xbox Live Marketplace, I have to say I am quite excited and impressed. It is true I see some signs of Oblivion in it, but that is a good thing in my opinion (See zoom in on character interaction, and same voice actor on the guy who asks you to arm the bomb(LOL!)). However, they have added a lot of the things that made Fallout great. I like the multiple choices given to the player similar to the prior games.

A couple other things...I hope I don't hear the bartenders or whoever saying the same things everytime I go near them and I hope they have conversations without voice actors, for more in-depth lore. If they do have all voice actors, it better be many actors and lots of conversation. Maybe they commented on this already, but i don't know.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Fine. Done.

Despite it feeling like one gigantic Oblivion Expansion I'm still looking forward to this game.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I just happened to watch a trailer of this game on Gametrailers with some hands on. I don't think I have ever seen such a fun an time consuming game in such a while. I'm anticipating this game oh so much

I was speaking idiomatically.

Censors Force Fallout 3 Changes | Edge Online

I lul'd and slightly grrr'd

Originally Posted by http://www.edge-online.com/news/censors-force-fallout-3-changes

Speaking to Edge, Bethesda has explained what it calls a “misconception” regarding the classification of Fallout 3 in the Australian region. Edge has also learned that due to concerns and issues raised in the process of international classification, Fallout 3 will not contain real world drug references in any territory.

Fallout 3 was originally refused classification by the Australian Office of Film and Literature Classification, citing among other reason the in-game use of “Morphine” in order to ignore limb pain. According to the Office’s guidelines, “material promoting or encouraging proscribed drug use” is refused classification.

In mid-August, the OFLC announced that a revised version of the game had been granted a rating in Australia, thanks to edits that changed the context of the in-game drug use.

While it has been assumed that these changes would only be in place in the Australian release of the game, Edge has been told by Bethesda vice president of PR and marketing Peter Hines that there will be no differences between the version that releases in Australia and the versions that will release in other territories, including Europe and the US.

Calling the idea of an Australia-specific version of the game a “misconception,” Hines told us, “We want to make sure folks understand that the Australian version of Fallout 3 is identical to both the UK and North American versions in every way, on every platform.”

He continued, “An issue was raised concerning references to real world, proscribed drugs in the game, and we subsequently removed those references and replaced them with fictional names. To avoid confusion among people in different territories, we decided to make those substitutions in all versions of the game, in all territories.”

Hines stated, “I didn't want people continuing to assume the version in Australia was some altered version when it's not.” Finally, he explained that, “There are no references to real world drugs in any version of Fallout 3.”

Bethesda has in the past described the landscape of international ratings classification as a challenge. In previous interviews, Hines has referred to the variation of rules and standards across different regions as “frustrating”.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

This isn't a problem at all. None of the chems in F1 or F2 were the real deal.

FELIPE NO

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According to the Office’s guidelines, “material promoting or encouraging proscribed drug use” is refused classification.

Refused classification? That's pretty hardcore censorship. The BBFC will give things an 18 rating for showing recreational drug use without negative consequences but they'd never ban a film or anything over it. I find the idea that a kid (Or in fact an adult, since they completely refused classification) would go out and score some morphine on the basis that it helped with bullet wounds to the leg in Fallout 3 rather laughable. If you're that fucking stupid you deserve to be a junkie. It's like people in this country complaining about the poster for the new Bond film because he's shown holding a machine gun and they're worried that in the midst of a gun-crime epidemic (Like 10 people have been shot this year or something equally pathetic) this will encourage kids to shoot each other. I mean, are the dealers and scummy kids from council estates who are shooting at each other all over east London and south Manchester really doing so because they saw a white dude with a machine gun on a movie poster? Of course they fucking aren't.

But yeah, I think GTA:IV is the only game I can think of that gives drugs their proper names anyway. It's not something that is going to negatively affect the gameplay.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well, seems a copy of the X360 version was leaked today, which is good - because we won't have to wait around another 3 weeks to finally realise what a shitty game it is.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

oh so you played it then Mr. Realise?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I hope you all enjoy cutscenes as according to the BBFC website, they had to sit through over 11 hours of them to rate this game (And 45 hours of gameplay footage). Also:

Originally Posted by bbfc.co.uk

Set in a post -apocalyptic North America in the year 2077, FALLOUT 3 is a science fiction fantasy role playing game in which the player becomes a young man or woman on a quest to find their missing father. Playable in either a first or a third person perspective, it was passed ‘18’ for strong bloody violence.

The BBFC Guidelines at ‘15’ state that ‘violence may be strong but may not dwell on the infliction of pain or injury’. In FALLOUT 3 however, players are encouraged to use a targeting system that allows them to pause the action and direct their attacks at specific areas of their opponents' bodies. This might be their head, torso or arms and legs. When the action restarts the camera then focuses on the impact of those targeted attacks, with in slow motion, the enemy shown being bloodily killed and dismembered. The game features many weapons with which players can do this, including various rifles and machine guns, as well as a knife, a chain saw and a rocket launcher. This focus on violent bloody injury was therefore considered too strong for ‘15’ and better suited to the adult ‘18’ category where the game's fantastical elements as well as the complexity of the playing experience helped to make it acceptable. Additionally, BBFC Guidelines at ‘15’ state that ‘the strongest gory images are unlikely to be acceptable’ and with these same combat elements also featuring large explosive blood splats, this emphasis on strong gore was also considered better placed at ‘18’.

FALLOUT 3 also contains strong language.

Slow motion? Sounds a bit like when you did the killing shots in that John Woo game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh, a chainsaw. Sweet.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Bethesda with cutscences? Cool. Usually don't have too many of those in thier games. Didn't expect slow mo either, which sounds cool, but we shall see.

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I imagine it's the total of non-interactive rolling footage so that'll include the intro and any pre-recorded conversations in the game. One wonders how long all the little bits of exposition before missions in GTAIV would come to if you watched them back to back.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?