[PS2] Ace Combat Thread (a.k.a. We Do Not Have Air Superiority)

The Su-37 is one of the better planes in the game. There should be no complaining.

I was speaking idiomatically.

This game was easy. Just fly head-on at your opponent and fire away a couple long or medium range missles and you have it won. Most likely your opponent won't even be able to shoot off a missle at you and if they do it's quite easy to dodge them. Su-37 has long range missles just get into a head-on with your enemy and fire. Even easier if you have the Morgan or Faulken. Then use the TLS to shot down scores of enemies like they were nothing. Personally, I like the Wyvern the best. As it's design is incredible and it has excellent armaments.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

*watches Foshi do a complete flip-flop on ACZ's difficulty, tries not to point and laugh...fails*

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Foshi

This game was easy. Just fly head-on at your opponent and fire away a couple long or medium range missles and you have it won. Most likely your opponent won't even be able to shoot off a missle at you and if they do it's quite easy to dodge them. Su-37 has long range missles just get into a head-on with your enemy and fire. Even easier if you have the Morgan or Faulken. Then use the TLS to shot down scores of enemies like they were nothing. Personally, I like the Wyvern the best. As it's design is incredible and it has excellent armaments.

Somehow, this fails in practice or atleast, your skipping the whole dogfighting/turns/barellrolls/2minuitechase that leads up to this finale. I also dont remember the Ace's being that easy...except for that one squadron that had like 2 people in it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Tokubetsu

Somehow, this fails in practice or atleast, your skipping the whole dogfighting/turns/barellrolls/2minuitechase that leads up to this finale. I also dont remember the Ace's being that easy...except for that one squadron that had like 2 people in it.

Unless you've given up on dogfighting and brought along MPBMs or a TLS, pretty much all you can do to accelerate things against most aces is get closer while you're in a tail-chase so they've got less time to evade your missiles...even then it's still just luck whether they do so. Sometimes the gun can help out, but I very rarely get pure gun kills on anybody except Schwarze because most are so maneuverable. And none of 'em fall for the XLAA-to-the-face trick that makes AC5's final mission so anticlimactic; even regular opponents often break formation before impact so at least one misses.

Anyhow, Thanatos, before you take Foshi's comments at face value, do read his last few posts in this thread. They're...illuminating.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Stealth

The Su-37 is one of the better planes in the game. There should be no complaining.

It's true.

HOWEVER, those F-15 S/MTDs that Sorceror squadron uses are so sexy it hurts. The vector canards on the front take some getting used to seeing, but that paint scheme is to die for.

I like how the FALKEN is still insane. The Gauntlet on Ace becomes the easiest thing ever with it. I shot Mobius One down twice, once instantly with the TLS and the other with regular missiles after about a minute or so of some insane dogfighting. His manuevers are so inhuman it hurts, sucks he's still no match for the power of the FALKEN.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

lol
Okay, let me spell it out more clearly. The game is quite easy to complete. My previous comments were about it's frustrating factor. I don't like games that are unnecessarialy frustrating. AC0 had too many unneeded infuriating moments in it. That does not mean that the game was not an easy one to complete though. I beat it in only a few days(2-3). Never did I say that this game was hard.

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I think you have your own issues if you're getting frustrated. Playing on ace, I was never shot down more than 3 times.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It's called challenge. ACZ is far from frustrating. Try playing Maximo some time.

::shakes fist in eternal rage at Maximo::

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Foshi

lol
Okay, let me spell it out more clearly. The game is quite easy to complete. My previous comments were about it's frustrating factor. I don't like games that are unnecessarialy frustrating. AC0 had too many unneeded infuriating moments in it. That does not mean that the game was not an easy one to complete though. I beat it in only a few days(2-3). Never did I say that this game was hard.

So the game's not hard, it's just frustrating and infuriating? How so? Unless you crash a lot, I'm guessing from what you've said before that you've gotten shot down one too many times by aces at the end of a mission...but you were just saying that you never called the game hard. Honestly, it sounds like you're trying to skirt around using that word with semantics, since I thought ACZ was markedly harder than the previous two games on my first run through it. Would it be fair to say you were a lot more frustrated with the game before you beat it than you are now?

How ya doing, buddy?

YAY! Got rid of Pixy.

To be honest, for most part, the game was quite easy except for Pixy and Wizard... (though still harder than 5 just a little tiny bit)

Wizard's stealth planes are just annoying.

Though I don't seem to understand why Excalibur was like.. so.. erm.. not.. hard?

FELIPE NO

Ok, so I'm finally getting to go through on the American release and redo all the stuff I did in the JP release in greater detail, and I love how EASY the missions are with the Morgan and the TLS/MPBM, even on Ace. It gives me time to destroy everything as it comes and then dick around in levels and see what I can find.

I laughed forever watching Ashley of Grabacr shoot down Pops and Bartlett in mission 10 (I want his paint scheme ;___; ). I've also noticed Pixy's dialogue about neutral targets changes in New Game depending on where your meter is.

It's just a lot of little things they did that make it so awesome to playthrough again and again. The compatibility with the FS2 was nice, as well.

Regarding Pixy and The Stage of the Apocolypse:

Did anybody catch onto the conversation with Wizard 1 and Pixy after the nuclear explosion? I didn't get what the hell it was until I turned on subtitles. I suppose it only confirms Pixy had his defection planned out ever since he first spoke with Wizard 1 back in Mayhem.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by tajisdurmin

So the game's not hard, it's just frustrating and infuriating? How so? Unless you crash a lot, I'm guessing from what you've said before that you've gotten shot down one too many times by aces at the end of a mission...but you were just saying that you never called the game hard. Honestly, it sounds like you're trying to skirt around using that word with semantics, since I thought ACZ was markedly harder than the previous two games on my first run through it. Would it be fair to say you were a lot more frustrated with the game before you beat it than you are now?

Thats true, but the frustration came from not being able to have a checkpoint system or a quick save option. I don't like replaying missions over and over from the beginning. If I make one mistake like crashing into wall when I'm flying in the Avalon dam or something like that I want to start over right there and not play waste my time flying back to it. Yes, I know this is a minor nitpick which is why I still love the game.

Unless your playing on Ace this game isn't all that hard. Yes, enemies dodge your missles better and lock onto you more often but it's not like flying against another human. Dodging missles is a sinch and shooting down enemies is a piece of cake with a good fighter jet.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RayPrower

I've also noticed Pixy's dialogue about neutral targets changes in New Game depending on where your meter is.

It's just a lot of little things they did that make it so awesome to playthrough again and again.

Yeah, these changes in dialog are a great addition. It makes it feel like there are actually differances between the three ace styles. For example, there are some funny ones in the first mission. Pixy telling you about the stories he's heard about you and another friendly pilot makes a remark regarding what they'll be drinking when they get back to base.

Regarding Pixy and The Stage of the Apocolypse:

Did anybody catch onto the conversation with Wizard 1 and Pixy after the nuclear explosion? I didn't get what the hell it was until I turned on subtitles. I suppose it only confirms Pixy had his defection planned out ever since he first spoke with Wizard 1 back in Mayhem.

I don't even think it's possible to actually hear what they're saying there, it's just too garbled. It's an interesting tie-in though.

Originally Posted by Foshi

I don't like replaying missions over and over from the beginning. If I make one mistake like crashing into wall when I'm flying in the Avalon dam or something like that I want to start over right there and not play waste my time flying back to it.

Quote:

this game isn't all that hard.

So which is it going to be then?

You remind me of how spoiled kids are these days, with the (average) difficulty level in post 16-bit era videogames being a bloody joke.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by seanne

So which is it going to be then?

Um... easy.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Then what are you complaning for.

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Foshi does have a point, though. It is frustrating to have to replay a complete mission if you're unfortunate enough to crash or get shot down in the very final moments, no matter how easy the mission actually is.

Most of us Ace Combat veterans are probably able to beat Pixy on "Zero" blindfold and we shouldn't give newcomers such a hard time when they're complaining about the game's difficulty. I know it took me quite some time to get used to Zero and the fact that those aces were actually noteworthy opponents instead of missile fodder like the rest of the enemy planes.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by seanne

Regarding Pixy and The Stage of the Apocolypse:

Did anybody catch onto the conversation with Wizard 1 and Pixy after the nuclear explosion? I didn't get what the hell it was until I turned on subtitles. I suppose it only confirms Pixy had his defection planned out ever since he first spoke with Wizard 1 back in Mayhem.

I don't even think it's possible to actually hear what they're saying there, it's just too garbled. It's an interesting tie-in though.

Yeah I know. Like I said, I didn't catch onto what was being said until I turned on subtitles. The conversation; for those of you who wish to know it:

What Traitors Discuss:

Wizard 1: Larry, do you read me? Your fairy godmother's here, Cinderella.
Pixy: How can you say that after all that's happened?!
Wizard 1: (laughing) Today's your lucky day, Larry. Like your birthday.
Pixy: And you're here to pull me off in some magical carriage...to hell I suppose...
...
Pixy: Buddy...I've finally found a reason to fight.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by RayPrower

What Traitors Discuss:

Wizard 1: Larry, do you read me? Your fairy godmother's here, Cinderella.
Pixy: How can you say that after all that's happened?!
Wizard 1: (laughing) Today's your lucky day, Larry. Like your birthday.
Pixy: And you're here to pull me off in some magical carriage...to hell I suppose...
...
Pixy: Buddy...I've finally found a reason to fight.

That didn't make a lot of sense, actually. After all, this dialogue isn't evidence for anything. Just some garbled philosophing that's supposed to sound creepy.

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Originally Posted by Foshi

Thats true, but the frustration came from not being able to have a checkpoint system or a quick save option. I don't like replaying missions over and over from the beginning. If I make one mistake like crashing into wall when I'm flying in the Avalon dam or something like that I want to start over right there and not play waste my time flying back to it. Yes, I know this is a minor nitpick which is why I still love the game.

Nothing in Zero really frustrates me, I guess, because almost no mission takes more than ten minutes if you're simply aiming to complete it. If I get shot down trying to kill everything in the air along with Schwarze in Mayhem, it's more my fault for trying to show off than the game's for being frustrating.

That said, though, the way Ace Combat handles above-ground crashes has never sat right with me. Since no in-flight or replay camera angle clearly shows the moment of impact, I've always had the sneaking suspicion that the game arbitrarily vaporizes you for being near structures rather than in actual contact with them.

Quote:

Unless your playing on Ace this game isn't all that hard. Yes, enemies dodge your missles better and lock onto you more often but it's not like flying against another human. Dodging missles is a sinch and shooting down enemies is a piece of cake with a good fighter jet.

Even on Ace, it's not all that difficult; as long as you don't get stupid or greedy, the enemies aren't any smarter. Every single time I've been shot down on Ace, I can attribute it to one of those two flaws...if I ever get frustrated playing the game, it's with myself for screwing up.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Rock

That didn't make a lot of sense, actually. After all, this dialogue isn't evidence for anything. Just some garbled philosophing that's supposed to sound creepy.

Well think about what they said in Mission 10 (Mayhem) earlier.

Prequel to the Madness:

Wizard 1: Larry, can you read me?
Pixy: Looks like you've still got the touch.
Wizard 1: It's happening exactly like you said it would. It's about time we got out of this dead end job.
Pixy: Not just yet.

This proves to us that the two were collaborating well before what happened on June 6th, and that Wizard 1 was apparently Pixy's guide into A World With No Boundaries. If he was in the area at the time the nukes dropped and Pixy followed him (as evidenced by their radio convo in that mission), well, what else could it have been?

This is all speculation of course, but it doesn't look like there's any other explanation.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm pretty sure Pixy and Wizard 1 both were in the process of making this rebellion during the time of the Mayhem mission. Maybe if you think about..Wizard 1 wanted this immeaditly, and Pixy was still iffy about it, hence the "Not just yet" part. Maybe he still felt there was no need for 'no boundaries'.

I think however in the Inferno mission, he then came to the conclusion that the world doesn't need the superficial borders these countries put on each other. After the mission, I bet and Wizard 1 went on ahead with the plan, and then..you have the Apocalypse mission.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Wizard 1 symbolizes perhaps the greatest problem I have with ACZ: the wasted potential of the game's story. To use my own words from ACskies...

Quote:

The one point where ACZ truly drops the ball, though, is its plot, which misses vast opportunities to color everything you know about the previous game. To wit, I was quietly hoping for an answer to the single most disturbing question in AC5:

Why were those seven Belkan cities vaporized by Belkan tactical nukes?

I've had some time to think about it between games, and one truly wicked reply comes to mind:

Because the planes that dropped them were Osean.

Think about everything that one revelation would explain. The immediacy of Wizard 1's transmission to Pixy after the blast seen in Stage of Apocalypse. The first shots of the Unsung War being fired by aircraft using the same false-flag tactics presumably employed by the Osean nuclear bombers. The open hatred displayed by the Belkan pilots encountered in AC5, men who had learned the terrible truth behind a 15-year-old lie. The 8492nd Squadron's resultant sudden interest in President Harling. The real reason Harling was so quick to seal the records of the war. And last but not least, the Belkans' final, singleminded push to visit not merely retaliation but nuclear retaliation on Osea.

Shortly after I said that, somebody there claimed that ACZ's plot was by far the strongest of the last three games, citing the "Falcons of Dawn" mentioned in the Assault Records as evidence. Le sigh.

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I'm not gonna lie, the AC stories aren't really that great, but keep in mind, this isn't the type of game that even cares about a story.

That being said, I don't think Osea dropping nuclear weapons on Belka would make any sense. At that time, they were already advancing into the northern territory of Belka, the war was sure to be over very soon. There would be no strategical value to dropping nuclear weapons on Belka. In fact, this would have only hurt them because it stopped their advance into the northern territory for a while.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think Belka themselves dropped the nukes to stop the advance of the allies. I agree with Stealth in that Wizard 1 and AWWNB wouldn't have gained anything from something like that.

Besides, although Wizard 1 was co-founder of AWWNB and all, wasn't Dr. Kupchenko (Gault 1) the one that got everyone started on that madness? I'm more interested in his role in what went down as opposed to Wizard 1.

I think Wizard 1 just capitalized on the Belkans plans to drop the nukes in order to fully set his plans in motion.

I was speaking idiomatically.