Under Defeat (Dreamcast) 1st Impressions

Finally got the game today... played it for a little bit.....

This was my first reaction...

WOAH =O

This game is brilliant in all its forms.

Presentation

You start off with background story (in Japanese) that an Empire is starting to take over your country. You and a friend (I believe the characters are both women here) are put up to the task of leading the resistance force against the Empire. After a quick optional tutorial, which takes 5 seconds to look and comprehend (images help a ton), you are immediately thrown into the battlefield.

Graphics

Some really nice eye candy here, a very realistic view of the battlefield with some amazing attention to the tiny details (more on that later) which makes it look definitely polished.

Sound/Music

Sound effects do their part by providing some realism, particularly with explosions. You get two types of soundtracks to choose from, the original Arcade synth and the Dreamcast exclusive arranged which features live guitar segments in the stage themes. Both soundtracks accompany the action to a tee. Can't say more on that, it's perfect. Kudos to Shinji Hosoe for coming out with such a ROCKIN' soundtrack

Gameplay

The helicopter is a bit difficult to control at first, but you quickly notice which button does what. What's interesting is that there is a button for options (Machine Gun, Rocket, Cannon, etc...), one for bombs and one to recharge your current option. While it cannot rotate 360 degrees like Zero Gunner 2's helis, you still get a feel of freedom when moving about.

Attention to detail

This is easily one the best aspects going for it. Right in stage 1, various things interact with the surrounding environement.

Here are a few examples:

There are cows running around on the ground, blow up a tank near them and they keel over in shock :P

When you blow up anything, you see huge plumes of smoke into the air and gets blown away if you fly into it.

The first boss appears and mercilessly chops up a flock of birds as it flies towards you with its rotor. It's a helicopter that's twice your size and is equipped with machine guns. As you fight it over a swampy area, you see the reflection of the events in the water below. When you finally defeat it (not as easy as I expected it to be), it twirls slightly before crashing into the ground but hops a bit futher and finally crashes into the swamp with a satisfying boom.

Longevity

Under Defeat could be beaten within half an hour by pros, but the game offers so many bonuses you'll always be coming back for more. Some extras include exclusive galleries that become unlocked when beating certain stages in certain ways. There are replays available after beating the game once. Beating the game the 1st time also unlocks a harder mode, with a different look on the levels.

Fun Factor

Well.... do you like blowing stuff up ? In need of unwinding after a stressfull day at work or school ? Then this game may be for you. It's very satisfying to figure out how to master the enemies' patterns and outsmarting the huge bosses. This is the game's main draw afterall... no complex scoring systems or anything, just blow stuff, badass style !! I like that notion :P

Overall

As you can see, G.Rev really wanted to do something really special for this game. Unless you can't stand shooters at all, I see no reason not to look it up, even for curiosity alone. Long live the Dreamcast, and God bless G.Rev for creating such a fun and simple game.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I love this game....almost as much/maybe more than Border Down.

G Rev puts the pedal to the metal in this offereing:

Sound/Music: 8.5/10

Graphics: 9/10

Gameplay: 8/10 (I rated it 8 because it took awhile for me to get used to the aiming system, seeing how I cannot read japanese I had to cycle through all of the different formats before I found one to suit me.)

Overall: Great package...9/10. After modest presentations like Chaos Field and Trizeal, we finally get a real winner.

Great game, great presentation for my fav genre of video game...unfortunately, a dying breed. Hopefully with the sales of this game it might inspire some of the other software manufacturers to start producing shmups again.

Its too bad Playlogic has decided to shelve Xyanide...that was the only other shmup coming to console that I am aware of in the near future.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Modest? Trizeal and Chaos Field were garbage. Ask anyone who actually has a clue with shmups. Garbage.

Under Defeat reminds me alot of Zero Gunner 2. I mean, alot. Since you're able to control the direction of your helicopter in Zero Gunner 2, Under Defeat has the same feeling. I don't specifically like the whole helicopter shmup concept myself, but in comparison to the likes of Chaos Field, this game is superior in all forms.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Trizeal and Chaos Field were garbage. Ask anyone who actually has a clue with shmups. Garbage.

Chaos Field is very below average, I agree.

But Trizeal is probably the most underrated shmup of all time. And I have a clue with shmups. With the exception of the boring stage 1 (and only boring if you don't play for score), the game has very awesome design. Some parts are long winded, and some are extremely unconventional (those tiny pods that come out in the thousands), but I had much fun with it. The 5th boss is fantastic, one of my favorite Shmup bosses of all time, as well.

Under Defeat... Has anyone played Air Duel? It's an old 1990 Irem vertical shmup that gives you the choice of two ships, a plane with the straight and powerful fighter, and a helicopter that can change the direction slightly (I'd say a 30 degree angle). Even though it doesn't give you as much turning options as Under Defeat, it's what I first thought of when I heard the concept, unlike everyone else who goes "OMFZ ZERO GUNNER II 2".

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I didn't want to come straight out and call them garbage...I mean we don't get many shooters at all so I'm willing to suffer through a few stinkers...if it will jump start the shmup genre again.

Air duel? Never heard of it...I'll look it up. Occasionally, a good shmup sneaks by me...like Bio Hazard Battle for Genesis/Mega Drive. I recently purchased it for about $6 on ebay and it was GREAT. Easily beating Trizeal/Chaos Field. Very enjoyable.

I was speaking idiomatically.

There's no point playing a shooting game if it's flawed or there's some sort of problem with it. The level design in Trizeal wasn't great, and Chaos Field was just a boring game. In comparison to Ikaruga, Shikigami no Shiro II, or Radilgy, they're garbage.

Raiden III is a great example here. I have this game for PS2, but I won't play it half as much as I should mainly due to cheap shots. The bullets are a yellow/orange color, and so are explosions. That means if you kill something and it explodes, and you're near that explosion, bullets become invisible and you can't tell whether you're going to make it out alive.

Zero Gunner II wasn't my thing either, as I said I'm not too favorable on the helicopter theme, but this game has been getting a large amount of hype so I wouldn't completely rule it out as of yet.

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Originally Posted by Elixir

There's no point playing a shooting game if it's flawed or there's some sort of problem with it. The level design in Trizeal wasn't great, and Chaos Field was just a boring game. In comparison to Ikaruga, Shikigami no Shiro II, or Radilgy, they're garbage.

LOL...thats funny, because I hate Ikaruga and Shikigami. Nice graphics but (in my opinion) the gameplay is terrible.

When I 1st bought Ikaruga and Shiki, I was happy...untill about a week later. Ikaruga is more puzzle game like Tetris to me than shmup. Go figure. Shiki was just horrible in every way. I do realize that the shmup community as a whole most likeky approves of these two games, however I do not. I'd much rather play Chaos and Trizeal (over them).

I despise most Cave shooters, like Don Dopachi, but I have no doubt if it were up to the shmup community as a whole, Don would probably be voted number one. When people talk shmups, its usually the first game mentioned. I think its just a matter of individual taste.

FELIPE NO

Dodonpachi is okay. It depends on what kind of shooting games you like. For me, I see that there's three kinds. The Battle Garegga type, which is mostly about blowing shit up, and not dodging bullets, then there's games like Shiki which are focused more on bullet dodging/bullet hell, and then there's the average type, which is a mixed bag of bullet dodging and blowing things up. Like, uh, Dangun Feveron.

Ikaruga is frustrating as hell, while Shiki is easier it isn't going to cut you much slack; this can be said for most shooting games. Ultimately it's your choice what you play, but apart from Radilgy and ESP Galuda, I haven't touched the genre in a little while.

Under Defeat I'm really tempted to download, but like I said, the concept of using a helicopter is about as appealing as the time I found out that Raiden III would have 3D backgrounds. Ugh.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Firepower 2000 had a helicopter and a jeep for controllable vehicles. Sure, the game isn't a bonafide classic, but it was pretty cool and had a few interesting bits towards it. (Then again, perhaps I like it a lot because I've owned it since forever and have fond childhood memories playing it, I dunno). I can't imagine what vehicle is being used being that big a deal, to be honest. It's not like it's as weird as some of the stuff in Parodius, right?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I guess I'm the only one who liked Chaos Field then, heh. It's like a boss fight only version of Radiant Silvergun with the useless weapons and the annoying point-powerup system taken out. The lame techno music even makes it relaxing if you ask me, not an omfg game but fun to take out every once in a while for some mindless fun. The last boss was retarded though, all you had to do was send one of those shield things on the center and dodge the rest while you automatically rack up a 1600 hit combo.

Under Defeat is just a run in the mill shooter too if you ask me. There is minimal weapon variety so the game boils down to the "see if you can dodge a billion bullets" thing, which is not a great concept. The controls are cool but you really should've been able to tilt out the chopper a bit more, if, with nothing else, shoulder buttons. Soukyugurentai had a secret unlockable option menu where you could redefine all of the controls completely freely which was fun, wish there would be something more here too. Other then that its a solid game.
Oh, and it's HARD too. I can barely beat it in easy mode. The last boss is a total asshole though. It took me a lot of time to figure out that its invincible, you have to shot inside the cannon to damage it.
I do agree that the music is good and the graphics are phenomenal. I also like how theres a war raging down there, but theres not enough interaction with your allies (the few tanks that come in on your side just die from some scripted event), and not enough collateral damage either, you can blow up a few crates and towers but you can reshape the terrain. The exploding bosses will leave some nice landmarks but those are scripted too.

However, I LOVE the character design. I must get the artbook for this game if any exists.
With that said, the unlockable (?) art gallery will make this game worthwile for a few days for me.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Looks good, but my only thought is, how about releasing it on a console people will actually use?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by sabbey

Looks good, but my only thought is, how about releasing it on a console people will actually use?

Because G.Rev's fanbase lies with the DC :/

And they don't want to tackle the PS2 because of its complex programming required.

They are, however, porting Senko No Ronde to XBox 360. If successful, we may see the other G.Rev games on it.

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I agree about Chaos Field.

I thought i had a decent purchase when i bought it, but now i kinda look back at it as a waste

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Dragon God

Because G.Rev's fanbase lies with the DC :/

And they don't want to tackle the PS2 because of its complex programming required.

G.Rev had nothing to do with Gradius 5? (PS2)

Border Down and Gradius 5 had many simularities.

EDIT: Apparently, G. REV and Treasure did collaborate on Gradius V.

source: http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/commu...8a3c0a39dfc6e9

(post 3 & 4)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by ROBOTRON

G.Rev had nothing to do with Gradius 5? (PS2)

Border Down and Gradius 5 had many simularities.

EDIT: Apparently, G. REV and Treasure did collaborate on Gradius V.

source: http://www.dreamcast-scene.com/commu...8a3c0a39dfc6e9

(post 3 & 4)

They've only coded the 3D Engine, not a full game. The coding they did on Ikaruga and Gradius V was to fund their development for Border Down and Senko No Ronde respectively.

FELIPE NO

Oh well, that all won't make me not hope to see it on XBOX or PS2...

Hell, I'll take it on PC, anything other than the Dreamcast!

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Originally Posted by sabbey

Oh well, that all won't make me not hope to see it on XBOX or PS2...

Hell, I'll take it on PC, anything other than the Dreamcast!

The Dreamcast's popularity is still quite high in japan. From how I see it, games are released by companies on the Dreamcast to see how it runs on consoles. Then it can be upgraded, improved, abilities/options added, and then it's usually ported to the Gamecube and the PS2.

That's what I make of Radilgy, as well. It's currently out on the Dreamcast, but I expect it to be released for the PS2 and 'cube(actually, this is confirmed) with added options. Much like how Ikaruga was first on the Dreamcast, then on the Gamecube with added options and such.

How ya doing, buddy?

I can't say I care unless it's released on a *current* console...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by sabbey

Oh well, that all won't make me not hope to see it on XBOX or PS2...

Hell, I'll take it on PC, anything other than the Dreamcast!

run it in Chankast then. Heck I don't see why the game being on the DC is a problem, its a nice console with some fat games, and costs less then 50$ or so.

Elixir: Chaos Field got a similar treatment. Arcade, then DC, then PS2 as "Chaos Field New Order".

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by sabbey

I can't say I care unless it's released on a *current* console...

I honestly don't see the big deal about the DC being "dead" in the US. DCs are cheap nowadays, you can easily download the Utopia boot disc online.

It's a shame that you're underestimating its potential because of its lack of success over here, as it is a mighty fine console which still has a few aces up its sleeve thanks to developpers like G.Rev, Milestone and Triangle Service.

If anyone cares, G.Rev has recently reported that the Limited Edition of Under Defeat is completely sold out. The regular edition also sold incredibly well, to the point that G.Rev is forced to do a reprint to meet demand. I think they've sold something around 15000+ copies(LE & RE combined) in two weeks since release. That has to say something about the DC's staying power and popularity, wouldn't you agree, Sabbey ?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Not really, if I could find a new Dreamcast, I would buy it. The problem other than that is, other than this game, I don't know of many others I would want...

As for it's staying power, well, that's in Japan. I have no way to get them so it's a mute point in my view. Unless of course import games will play on a US model. Might considering buying a used one in that case.

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Originally Posted by sabbey

Not really, if I could find a new Dreamcast, I would buy it. The problem other than that is, other than this game, I don't know of many others I would want...

As for it's staying power, well, that's in Japan. I have no way to get them so it's a mute point in my view. Unless of course import games will play on a US model. Might considering buying a used one in that case.

Er.. how much do you actually know about the Dreamcast?

Dreamcasts have absolultely no region protection. Games which won't play from certain areas require a boot disc, which can be downloaded and burned itself. Basically, if you have the internet, black CD's, and a Dreamcast, you're open to it's entire collection.

I've burned possibly 80 Dreamcast games. From that list I can clearly say that Soul Calibur, Ikaruga, Power Stone, Shikigami no Shiro II, Bangai-o, Jet Set Radio, Gunbird 2, Sonic Adventure 1/2, are all great games and should be bought. You don't need to import for these, as the Dreamcast is still alive mainly thanks to the ability to burn games so easily.

I'm sure there's other Dreamcast titles that I'm missing, which are also great. The problem is that most of them are in japanese. Elemental Gimmick Gear is a great RPG, as is Evolution and Grandia II, if you're looking at Dreamcast RPGs.

I highly recommend checking this site which I've had added to favorites for years now. It's a list of all japanese and american released Dreamcast games, with pictures and a description.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Back to Under Defeat, anyone knows how to unlock the Character art gallery? I've unlocked the other two but not this one so far.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Elixir

Er.. how much do you actually know about the Dreamcast?

As is obviously known by now. not very much!

By the time I got back into console gaming everyone, including Sega, said the system was dead. I had no idea...

Originally Posted by Elixir

Dreamcasts have absolultely no region protection. Games which won't play from certain areas require a boot disc, which can be downloaded and burned itself. Basically, if you have the internet, black CD's, and a Dreamcast, you're open to it's entire collection.

Hmm, that's nice, wish the other consoles were as well. I guess there's no reason not to look for a Dreamcast. Always wanted one, but didn't think it was practical.

Originally Posted by Elixir

I highly recommend checking this site which I've had added to favorites for years now. It's a list of all japanese and american released Dreamcast games, with pictures and a description.

Thanks for the info! Will check that out. In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes open for a good deal on both the console and this game. Really do need to play it...

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by evilboris

I guess I'm the only one who liked Chaos Field then, heh. It's like a boss fight only version of Radiant Silvergun with the useless weapons and the annoying point-powerup system taken out. The lame techno music even makes it relaxing if you ask me, not an omfg game but fun to take out every once in a while for some mindless fun. The last boss was retarded though, all you had to do was send one of those shield things on the center and dodge the rest while you automatically rack up a 1600 hit combo.

I though it was worth the GameFly rental. I'm still sort of a noob to this genre, so it was a challenge for me even on Easy with 5 shields. The music was generic, but enjoyable. And it took me FOREVER to figure out that strategy for the last boss, since I was using Ifumi for the entire game (I liked her main weapon and shields better than the other ones).

Jam it back in, in the dark.