English dubs versus Original Japanese or Fanboys Need to Grow up and Gtfo

Ok.

Anime gets licensed and ported to America Land to be redistributed with a brand spanking new language track called English. Some anime, usually of the shonen variety, get aired on television for children since, you know, that's the demographic. Fans of these shows exist on the Internet and have long been familiar with the original Japanese voices, dialogue, and unedited footage. However, when the same episodes air on western television with English coming from a character's mouth, in addition to some edited for TV violence, they bitch.

Why.

They can still download these episodes online, even if they're licensed. I also like how no matter how decent the dub of an anime is, "nothing beats the original Japanese voice acting." I'm sorry, since when were you an expert in the Japanese performing arts. Do you know what good voice acting is in that language? Do you know what good acting is period in that language?

Dubbing has come a long way in America. 4Kids knows how to milk a series and make a shitload of cash off of a franchise while destroying the source material in the process. However, other studios, like Viz or Geneon, are able to hire decent and occassionally above-average voice actors for their purchased shows.

I just don't understand how 90% of the fanboys bitching can absolutely abhor their native language. The purpose of this thread is to get to the bottom of this bitching. I've always known "why," but I don't see any logic behind that (if there's any at all).

Any haters of dubbed anime willing to step up?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

haha. I (someone else) always wanted to make a thread like this. You know me, I dont mind dub or sub. If anything, I was sorta like that back in 2002 when the animes came in Toonami. The only reason i stopped the "fanboy-ism"(which was only 3-5 months of complaining about dub) is cause i noticed the improvement in every dubbing group. Viz, to me, is still new and young when it comes to having a few voice actors here and there but i still give them a chance.

So yeah. Im not one of those fanboys. I bet if anything, they would say how much japanese show more expression into the acting lol.I guess that differs from the american dub

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Basically it's a show of emotion. If the emotion isn't conveyed properly then it cuts the worth of the anime in half.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Where I'm from, dubs are basically for one thing, and for one thing alone: kids. They can't read fast enough so subtitles are not option, and they might not have fully developed the brain functions necessary to process both picture, sound and text at the same time. So I fully understand that 4Kids needs to dub their stuff and I have no problem with that.

But from the age group of 12-13 years and up, which a lot of anime in the US and elsewhere is being marketed to, this shouldn't really be a problem. And that's my reason for disliking dubs: because it's simply unnecessary. It's not that I don't want to have it in my native language, but that I want to have it in the original language, the original version. All these changes are just stupid and pointless in my eyes. And it's not some Japanophile mentality; I don't want to watch Crouching Tiger in English, I don't want to watch STALKER in Swedish or play the Legacy of Kain games in Japanese. I don't want to watch a fullscreen version of a widescreen film, a widescreen version of a fullscreen film or a colourised version of a B&W film. I don't want to watch something that's been censored or edited, where the entire premise has been changed or the music replaced etc. etc.

You don't understand why people don't want to watch anime with dubs, I don't understand why people necessarily have to have dubs for everything when it's perfectly fine in Japanese. Something probably close to 80% of the international movie market is already English-language Hollywood films, isn't that enough?

Then there's another side to it: that it's responsible for some annoying problems with the anime industry. You yourself complained about the price of anime DVDs in the 'buying' thread. Why are they so expensive? Partly because of the cost of dubbing. And for example why won't classic anime get licensed? Because they're often long and it would not be economically feasible to dub it all. So why can't they license and release them only with subs? Because then people bitch and moan that there's no dub, they won't buy it, and hence no one will license it. Same goes for a lot of niche titles.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I don't particularly hate dubs, but of the ones i have heard, they suck so bad. The American dubs just put no effort into the voice and you lose the sense of the character instantly with their monotone voices. At least the Japanese VA's seem to have some emotion in their voices. If you sit down and compare the original anime VA's with the American VA's, you'll be able to tell where they're going wrong. There is only dub i can stand to watch and that is Rurouni Kenshin because that's done pretty well and i don't like the Japanese VA's

It's also not just a problem with the VA's. They rip the animes to shreds by editing out all the blood/violence/swearing which annoys the hell out of me. All they have to do is show it a bit later.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I usually prefer original because the seiyuu sound better and they express the emotions better but there are several dubs that do just as well. Like gundam wing, kenshin, outlaw star, gits, arjuna, vandread. These dubs nail it on the spot. And sometimes the original seiyuu suck and the dub sounds better. For example, I like Inuyasha dub VA better than the original Japanese ones.
(someone is gonna call me a fanboy just because I used the word "seiyuu" XD)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't care as much, I prefere JP here, I prefere ENG there.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by jouhou

someone is gonna call me a fanboy just because I used the word "seiyuu" XD

nah. you're ok. just as long as you dont hate dubs to the point where it gets too annoying ^^;.

My only concern is the dubbing of Beck and how they'll pull it off. Cause there's already engrish in the anime ;p.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I can stand dubs if they manage to convey the emotion accordingly. DBZ (in the later sagas), in my opinion, has been the only one that has done that. Well, that as well as some Studio Ghibli ENG dubbed movies.

The reason why so many people hate ENG dubs is that a lot of it gets lost in translation. The puns, the jokes, the exaggerated voices... A lot of it would've be lost, or even modified and sometimes sounding out of place. Furthermore, a lot of athe dubbers put little effort into the animes when you compare it to something American, such as Walt Disney and etc.

How ya doing, buddy?

I don't mind dubs as long as the try to keep it to a decent quality. But I refuse to watch it if the also change the music. Although when an anime is dubbed it loses some of its jokes becuase of the translation.
I'm more around 50/50.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'm subs-only. Every time I see a game with voice acting released in the US, for example, I cringe if it doesn't have a JP voice track. Which is to say, I do so often.

As far as being Americanized and horribly dubbed? I think it ruins it. Not fanboydom if you wanna call it that. I have respect for good animes. Works of art at times. Then they're brought over here and bastardized. When Miyazaki's Kiki's Delivery Service was brought over, you don't wanna know how mad I was at the horrible, HORRIBLE job Disney did with it.

That is a fine example. Miyazaki's works are the best anime have to offer. But to ruin it so like that hurts it in the eyes of everyone else over here.

If I ever watch a foreign film, I watch it with subs. Keeps the original feel to it in my opinion. Hell, I don't even watch the anime that comes on movie-channels now, simply due to their bad dubs.

How ya doing, buddy?

You know, there is nothing wrong with wanting to watch a foreign work in its original form. If I'm going to watch something foreign, it's subtitles for me.

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Originally Posted by chato

nah. you're ok. just as long as you dont hate dubs to the point where it gets too annoying ^^;.

My only concern is the dubbing of Beck and how they'll pull it off. Cause there's already engrish in the anime ;p.

Well, Beck isn't licensed to my knowledge. I don't think they'll even try.

If they did, I think the only way they could pull off "speaking in japanese/english" is putting a little indicator onscreen (like a blue dot or something) that the character is speaking in another language.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by JazzFlight

Well, Beck isn't licensed to my knowledge. I don't think they'll even try.

If they did, I think the only way they could pull off "speaking in japanese/english" is putting a little indicator onscreen (like a blue dot or something) that the character is speaking in another language.

I bet that they're just going to pretend that it doesn't happen in the dub.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't mind if it's subbed or dubbed. Way back when I was fist getting into anime, I liked only the dub for the simple reason I started waching anime on TV and I was a little afraid to wach the original audio because I was afraid that it would ruin it. But after maybe 4 years, I stopped my dub only fangirlie-ness and desided to watch the then "virgin" subs on the DVDs I owned. I found out that it wasn't so bad, in some places better then the dub.

I really never got dub haters, though. There's almost always going to be a Japanese track on a DVD (Or in the case of Naruto and a few others, unedited season boxsets with subs on the DVDs) Why can't they just switch to them? I mean it's not like anime that's put out by ADV, Geneon, Bandai, Viz, ETC. are like those put out by 4kids....Names are the same, places are the same, the episode count is intact, so are the episodes. But people still bitch an moan about how they hate dubbed anime and love the original, bootlegged versions no matter how illegal they are after the series has been licenced, or way before that for that matter...

Now there are some dubs out there I dislike. One being Saiyuki Reload. I loved the original ADV dub of Gensomaden Saiyuki, but when Geneon got Reload and Reload gunlock....hearing other people do the voices was a little strange to me. Some of the VAs seemed cast wrong, they didn't fit the characters....the original VAs did some what. I think that's how the purests feel sometimes....they're so used to the Japanese VAs that once they hear the English VAs they sound strange to them and they don't think that they were cast right, or their voices don't match the character or whatever. But like I said above. There is alway a Japanese track like I said....switch to that insted of hollering at other people who may happen to like the dub you hate or dubbed anime in general. You may not like dubs, but other people still may like them.

Sorry when I get on a sub vs. dub rant I can't stop. This post isn't directed at anyone...just my opinion.

How ya doing, buddy?

This is something that I wonder about every now and then, and I keep coming back to how Americans just love their language so much, so it's impossible for them to be objective about it.

Coming from a country where the only dubbing is done for children's cartoons, I've always watched my movies in their original language, whether it's Japanese, Spanish, Russian, Chinese or whatever. I don't watch "funny" dubs for kung-fu films. It doesn't matter if it's a language I don't understand, just as long as it's the original language the film was made in, because that's what good, professionally made subtitles are for.

Dubbing is for people who can't read, meaning kids. That many countries (Germany, Italy, France, US) have picked this up for foreign films and series alike really doesn't mean it should apply for everyone else as well. I personally think it's an absurd effort, a bid to hide the origin of the movie, just in case some idiot might not want to see it if it's not made by their own country. To cater for people who are not interested in the film enough to bother reading. If you think it's entirely justified to alter a film because you feel uncomfortable hearing a foreign language, or are too lazy to read, there is something seriously wrong with you.

This of course wouldn't be so much of a problem if english wasn't the norm for most games and anime releases outside Japan. Most the anime I get, I need to import from either the US or the UK, which means dub centric, usually dubtitles. Almost always a dub only, if it's a game. I generally support any Finnish releases of anime they bring here (unless I already own the title), but even when stuff gets brought over, the problem remains. The Ghost in the Shell movie on DVD here has Finnish subtitles, but these are made from the english dub instead of the original Japanese script, meaning plenty of lines where none of the characters are talking on the original audio. Besides that, the film copy itself is the US/UK version, meaning the end credits music was changed.

I just see it like this. I don't watch any movies dubbed, I want to see them in the language they were made. I don't want my music dubbed. Why would I want my anime or games dubbed?
Of course, there's plenty of Latin or Indian pop songs that get English versions released as well, which is just as absurd to me.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Heh. its not like America are the only ones that dub anime. We also have the spanish people that dubbed Eva, DBZ,DBGT,Cardcaptor Sakura,Digimon,Lost Universe,Saber Marionette J,etc.

Originally Posted by JazzFlight

Well, Beck isn't licensed to my knowledge. I don't think they'll even try.

If they did, I think the only way they could pull off "speaking in japanese/english" is putting a little indicator onscreen (like a blue dot or something) that the character is speaking in another language.

True. Or, they dont have to dub it and just give out the dvds in japanese format with subtitles. If they're allowed that is..

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm a fan of subbing, and very much against dubbing. I would not choc this up to fanboyism so much as academic interests. I am always learning new words and phrases when I watch subtitled anime, and I am also constantly exposed to different types of talking styles and accents, which would be lost with most dubbings. However, I have not spent my time trying to find out if there has been any good dubbing groups out there, so I guess I have just been stuck in this opinion due to laziness.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Fjordor

I am always learning new words and phrases when I watch subtitled anime, and I am also constantly exposed to different types of talking styles and accents

Same as. I find the Japanese language interesting so following the subtitles and learning the odd word is great for me. I always listen really hard to what they're saying to see if i can pick up a new word or phrase

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It doesn't really matter, depending on two things. First, if it's japanese, there shouldn't be characters using any english whatsoever. I'd like to point out Sonic X here, which has ridiculous sentences like "Nomi miko no setsu ko, no desu wa mudamuda. Okray! No problurm!" or "Watashi wa deku nahi moshi that's cool, my love for you uchi ichi dichi doo" which is just fucking retarded.

I don't care if it's in english, unless it's apparent that the characters would sound better if they hadn't opened their mouthes in the first place. Like, Naruto.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I could care less, as long as the story is conveyed the way it was originally intended to be. Because of this, the first time I watch something I usually watch it dubbed and with the subtitles on. As long as they're pretty similar, I'll keep watching the show in this manner, but if the dub is drastically different (for no reason), I'll just switch over to the Japanese audio. And upon my second viewing of a show, I usually just switch over to the Japanese anyway, just so I can check that out as well.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I have to agree on what Elixir said. It's bad enough hearing english voice actors pronounce Japanese names, but Japanese VAs speaking English is painful as well. It kinda works when it's used for comical effect, but when characters are supposed to pass for foreign or professional scholars or something, it's quite embarrassing.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

I could care less, as long as the story is conveyed the way it was originally intended to be. Because of this, the first time I watch something I usually watch it dubbed and with the subtitles on.

This doesn't really work, because a lot of the times the subtitles are dubtitles, meaning they repeat the dub script, instead of the original script. Many of the publishers think they already have one translation there with the dub, and that the dub is close enough to the original, so why bother making another just for subtitles (which a large amount of audience won't use). This often works though, with the dub being just a translation, but there's also cases (like the Ghost in the Shell movie) where the distributor takes considerable efforts to alter the script to better fit the dub for english viewers, the alterations meaning not only added swearing and somewhat different lines to counter the japanese metaphors, but also characters talking off-screen when there was no dialogue in the original.
It's true, Ghost in the Shell's dub is still one of the best I've seen, and the work is very professional, but anyone wanting to see the original, it's a bit of a lost cause because the subtitles mirror the localized script instead of the original. It's no wonder if the dub and subtitles happen match, when they are essentially the same thing.

Same with something like ADV's original release of Neon Genesis Evangelion. It's troublesome because finding info on how true the subtitles are to the original script is difficult as it's either not known or not considered important enough to mention.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Well, out of all my DVDs, the only one I have with dubtitles is Princess Mononoke, so this problem doesn't affect me that much (even my GitS DVD doesn't have dubtitles).

How ya doing, buddy?

I watch anime subtitled most of the time. This is mostly due to the fact that over most English dubs, the original language track just sounds better. I also don't know what the fuck they're saying, so if it's bad acting, I don't know! I'm completely in the dark. Take the Escaflowne anime for example. Dilandau was reduced to an uninspired, whiny psychopath in the dubbed version. In Japanese, his VA is fun to listen to, as she managed to pull off some very interesting nuts as fuck moments.

The dubbed versions of anime are designed for a larger audience. Not everybody wants to read (which still kind of bothers me) and to be frank, nobody gives a shit about watching it in its native language. I usually don't either, so long as a subtitled version of the show or movie I want to watch is available somewhere. But Qwarky brought up something I'd overlooked for a while: altered scripts.

I remember watching Cooler's Revenge, a DBZ movie, in both English and Japanese. FUNimation had a different script in it's dubbed version, but the Japanese script was much different. It was translated, I imagine, so faithfully that there were even some awkward sentences in there. Although interesting, there was nothing plotwise to be missed. Not just because it was DBZ, but because the two scripts were still cohesive.

I can see how this can affect other anime on a larger scale. In that regard, I understand the hate for dubs to an extent. I still think the easier solution, rather than complaining so hard about edited material and the quality of the English VAs when Japanese tracks are usually available, is to just buy/download the stuff.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

GTO can be a huge example . Both jokes in japanese and english were different. In my honest opinion, I found the dubbing to be more funny even if David Lucas did a shitload of voices in the anime.

Jam it back in, in the dark.