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Duo Maxwell: There comes a point when standing on hot coals for too long will only cause harm. He danced for 20+ (14?) years in a country that hates Christians and hates their own kind who convert even more. While it is sad that they plan on killing this man, he did choose to stay there knowing full well what would happen to him if he ever got caught. There's nowhere I can't reach. "In a somewhat related statement. Hugging fat people is soft and comfy. <3" - Jan "Jesus, Gumby. You just...came up with that off the top of your head?" - Alice
Last edited by Gumby; Mar 27, 2006 at 02:13 AM.
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This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
What does the pilgrims have to do with a lone convert in bumfuck, Afghanistan? Funny hats?
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
I'd call him stupid as well because hes attempting to drive a cause that is best not martyred for. The only way to achieve that kind of religious freedom in Afghanistan is to allow the society to open up to the world and acclimate itself to such ideas, simply dumping it on a society of that kind will just not work. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
His religion is a personal thing. He was turned in by Muslim family members. Jesus was apostate in Israel...Paul refused to bow down and call Ceasar god...and how do you know religious freedom would have no effect if it hasn't been tried. Maybe many Afghanis would think Christianity to be superior to Islam and convert..perhaps thats what the cleric are afraid of, perhaps thats why they so desperatly want to forbid any other religious thought, becuase in the light of free religious choice, Islam may lose its power and control over the people.
FELIPE NO |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
It's not like the guy openly displayed his religion in a defying way. His own family betrayed him. Anyway, he's out now. Officially released for "mental" issues. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Wesker made this topic just to bash Islam,he is just looking for chance to bash even more ,where as Adamgian is trying to defend needlessly.
The issue is trivial,who gives a DAMN fuck to a afghani. And this issue has ended so i dont see any point of continuing this debate. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
The issue is not trivial. If American lives are being sacrificed to bring "democracy" to these Muslim nations, I'd prefer to see them act in a more civilzied fashion. Since this isn't going to happen, my opinion now is the hell with them, we shouldn't waste another American life trying to mediate peace between these people since in the long run it won't matter anyway. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
To be honest, it's not a secret that the recent nation building sponsored by the US and their allies is failing left and right. I wonder what went wrong after WWII.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
After WWII we were, in Europe, building nations that already had a Judeo/Christian ethic and had, in the past, experienced western style freedoms. In Japan, MacArthur governed, almost as a dictator, and the Japanese, having been so soundly defeated, were eager at a chance at a better life. While not having a Judeo?Chritian background, they at least weren't burdened by an overly strict theocratic law, and were thus better able to adapt to a free market, libertarian type of society. Allowing the Emperor to remain as a figure head leader helped also, by allowing them a tie with their past and their religion.
How ya doing, buddy? |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Last edited by Gordon_Freeman; Mar 28, 2006 at 03:36 PM.
Reason: clarification
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I ask you,if your father and mother would prefer solving problems of their "family" by themslef or they would rather suggest some stranger to come to your house and intervene in your matters(beating you if necessary). How will you react? Afghanistan is Fucked since long ,a guliible nation,with fucked up citizens and US is responsible for that. Now don't even expect them to act in civilised way. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
The Iraqi shopowners aren't emptying magazines out of seventh-century social sets but political expressions of the desire for national autonomy. I'm not sure you're aware of this, Wesker, but people who don't live on your continent generally severely disagree with Full Spectrum Dominance. How ya doing, buddy?
LlooooydGEEEOOORGE
Last edited by Cal; Mar 29, 2006 at 10:10 AM.
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This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
This is a complicated issue because on the one hand, even an occupying force needs to respect foreign cultures, law and lifestyle. On the other hand, if you're going into a country with military force planning to establish a western style democracy, you better do it right and not be half-assed about it.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Islam presents a problem when it comes to respecting other cultures. Islam seems to have a victim complex. Muslims can inflict all kinds of horrible violence upon each other and theres nary a peep of protest. Release a rumor of Koran abuse or draw a cartoon of Mohammad and theres hell to pay. It seesm that only the "infidel" can be guilty of offenses against Muslims. This presents the occupying forces with the dilemma of trying to protect a people from themselves. Any actions taken against the offending party, if the offending party is Muslim, and the occupying force is the guilty one. It's a no win situation.Knowing this, "insurgents" and terrorists often hole up in mosques, knowing that for the infidel Americans to go after them would be some sort of horrific offense against islam and cause a public outcry.
FELIPE NO |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
The fact of the matter though is, Middle Eastern countries don't want to be "Westernized." Hell, just read some of the Saudi press, and it'll openly say - Modernize, yes, Westernize, never.
Democracy and a rule of law open to the public is not something that is given, its something the people of the country who want it must earn. It takes strong institutions and a people willing to work themselves to get their right to vote and determine their own laws. Democracy will never work as an imposed idea, and its very sad that the US and its people of all nations, can't seem to realize that. Islam is compatible with Democracy so long as you realize the type of Democracy it calls for. In particular, what do you consider as central tenents of a free society? Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, what? European countries don't grant full freedom of speech, and some have state religions, yet we consider them democracies. Adapting this to a conservative Islamic society is the way to bring about an open rule of law. I bring this up for a few reasons. First off, blasphemy will never be tolerated in an Islamic society. You cannot expect even a democratic muslim country to permit people to openly caricature Muhammed, as with the Danish cartoons. As well, apostacy will be a touchy and difficult issue to address, and likely will be illegal as well. However, does banning those two practices inherently mean that a state cannot be a democracy? Wesker, most of this is directed at you, although it applies to anyone else who wants to address it. I've been looking at the issue, its a very, very complicated one to address, and thats the main reason I strongly oppose any intervention to prop up "Democractic governments." It's just too difficult for a foreign power to juggle and understand the complexities of the situation on the ground. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
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