Pregnant teen needs help! (The sequel)

For those of you who want the full story see the Pregnant teen needs help! thread.

Those who have read or posted on that thread will know what I am talking about.

In a nut-shell my cousin is pregnant again, the good news though is she left the jerk Chris. This child is due in January, and like her first baby, she is smoking this one too. She has her own place, but still has no job. She is living off of the government baby bonus. Chris does not come over to see his child and he cannot be made to pay child support because he too has no job and is living off of welfare.

Here is what I want advice about. While I understand that she will not be able to work full time until the second baby is born, she needs to start relying on herself a little more. She down right refuses to leave the town she is in (Trust me... there is zero opprotunity there) she says she does not want to leave her mom at all, she has to stay close to her. My cousin has just turned 20 and she is still pulling at the hem of her mother's dress as if she was 6.

I have tried explaing to her my experiences, I graduated from college and moved from home at age 19, it was hard at first, but I had to leave in order to get a job and life for myself, I am now 25 with my own house and getting married next year. I am not at all expecting her to do the same, but I think she should stop relying on her mom so much.

What do you all think? I am not really sure that to do about this situation.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I don't think there IS anything you can do. It seems you've done all you can besides offer her a place to live which would be a terrible idea. I think the best you can hope for is that at some point her mother will be telling her these things and she'll listen.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It sounds like that she is relying on her mom, especially now that she is having a second child. Being a single mother with one child is rough, but two of them is extremely difficult.

If you have talked to her about this, then you have done what you needed to do. This may sound harsh and I DO realize it IS family, but she IS an adult. She is also not a TEENager anymore (judging by your previous post and adding a year).

Unfortunately, the best thing to do is what you have done. You can't do anything more to change her mind. You can give advice, but that's why they call it advice, it can be followed or not followed.

I do not know of her and her family. Some families will help their children forever. Some stop at a certain point. It's different for each family. If it's the latter, then be ready to lend a shoulder for her to cry on, and an open ear when she needs to talk to someone. However, unless she is literally living on the street, don't lend her a room or space in your house (otherwise, you may run into the problem of her relying on you).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I think it's pretty harsh to say that she's clinging to her mother's hem. She's a single mom with two kids and no job, no prospects whatsoever from your post....of course she doesn't want to make even more changes! I can't imagine what her situation must feel like, and neither can you. So I think the only thing you can do is be there for her and listen, and not judge her. Offer practical help, show her where to get information. Help her become more self-reliant. But don't put her down, because that certainly won't help.

Also, there may be other reasons why she's still so close to her mom. Does her mom perhaps rely on her as well? All that we don't know.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You raise a very good pont Traveller87, however my aunt really wants her to move out and become more self reliant, my cousin is very difficult to live with, she won't pull her own weight around the house.

My cousin has always been the person that says "I am old enough to do what I want and you can't stop me" since she was 13. While this is true on many senses, our family always provided positive advice to her, yet she contiuned to reject it and dig herself deeper into the hole she is in now. I guess there is really not much I can do but leave it up to her. I still continue to talk to her once in a while, but I feel that I am all out of advice that I can give her.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Unfortunately, there comes a point where you just have to let go and let the person potentially hit rock bottom. Hopefully, given the situation, she won't go to that point, but sometimes that's what it really takes to get someone to turn things around.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

As anyone would guess, my take on this is get God in on the action with prayer.
All of your actions were good ones yet you are merely human. Plus she doesnt need you like the rest of her support system.
Even if you have given Him a chance before and things didnt work the way you wanted try again.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As anyone would guess, my take on this is get God in on the action with prayer.
All of your actions were good ones yet you are merely human. Plus she doesnt need you like the rest of her support system.
Even if you have given Him a chance before and things didnt work the way you wanted try again.

I think my cousin needs to act more then pray. I haven't gotten along with the Christan god very well, which is why I am a pagan.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As anyone would guess, my take on this is get God in on the action with prayer.
All of your actions were good ones yet you are merely human. Plus she doesnt need you like the rest of her support system.
Even if you have given Him a chance before and things didnt work the way you wanted try again.

Prayer doesn't help in personal responsibility. Prayer doesn't make a person more mature, more responsible, and less needy.

You've done what you can, Chibi. I know it must be painful to watch her go through this and not learn her lesson the first time around.

The more people around her enable her, the less she will learn. I doubt you personally enable her, but the people around her (her mother?) sound like they are torn between helping her and cutting her off.

The only way I think she'll learn is if she gets a little tough love from your family. If she is old enough to pop out a few kids, she's old enough to start relying on herself.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As anyone would guess, my take on this is get God in on the action with prayer.
All of your actions were good ones yet you are merely human. Plus she doesnt need you like the rest of her support system.
Even if you have given Him a chance before and things didnt work the way you wanted try again.

No, no, no. I think you misunderstood the thread maker's request. She's looking for real answers. Not ones that aren't going to help her at all.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Unfortunately, cutting somebody off is always problematic when they're your own daughter (which is why I think her mother's reaction is understandable), and even more so when there are children involved. It's a common cliché that letting a person hit rock bottom will eventually make things better, when in fact, it may just lead to them getting stuck there.

I agree that you've done a lot for her, and that SHE eventually needs to take care of her own life - it's not your responsibility to do that for her. But I'd still keep an eye out for her for the sake of the kids, although I'm convinced you were going to do that, anyway.

Whatever happens, though, it's not your responsibility. She needs to find her own way. And maybe her family's way and their advice wasn't right for her, who knows? If her mother wants her to move out, she should talk to her about it, and tighten up the rules/conditions for her. She needs to get her expectations across ("if you're going to live here, I want you to a) do XYZ around the house, b) ..."), and make it clear that this is a sort of contract. If your cousin is supposed to grow up, she needs to be treated like an adult. And if she thinks she can do whatever she wants, then perhaps she needs to realise that she also has to carry the consequences, and that other people won't always take care of these things for her.

People grow with the challenges they face, but only with the right kind of support. And that's often difficult to give. Once again, it is her own responsibility to get her life together, and only she knows what she wants, but it does help to be supported through this process of gaining independence. So what I would do is probably to ask her what she wants from life (what kind of job, etc.), and how she thinks she can achieve that. Then perhaps give her some job websites and phone numbers of support services, where she can get professional advice....and the rest is up to her. You can't take that step for her.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Unfortunately, cutting somebody off is always problematic when they're your own daughter (which is why I think her mother's reaction is understandable), and even more so when there are children involved. It's a common cliché that letting a person hit rock bottom will eventually make things better, when in fact, it may just lead to them getting stuck there.

I don't agree with this assessment 100%. But it usually works for people who are accepting handouts when they have their own capabilities.

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I agree that you've done a lot for her, and that SHE eventually needs to take care of her own life - it's not your responsibility to do that for her. But I'd still keep an eye out for her for the sake of the kids, although I'm convinced you were going to do that, anyway.

Whatever happens, though, it's not your responsibility. She needs to find her own way. And maybe her family's way and their advice wasn't right for her, who knows? If her mother wants her to move out, she should talk to her about it, and tighten up the rules/conditions for her. She needs to get her expectations across ("if you're going to live here, I want you to a) do XYZ around the house, b) ..."), and make it clear that this is a sort of contract. If your cousin is supposed to grow up, she needs to be treated like an adult. And if she thinks she can do whatever she wants, then perhaps she needs to realise that she also has to carry the consequences, and that other people won't always take care of these things for her.

And what would the consequences be, exactly, if the cousin doesn't follow the rules of the house? Whats the worst the mother can do? Ground her?

I agree that some rules should be laid down, but that's not "being treated like an adult." That's being treated like a teenager.

I think with some time, the girl will do a little growing up and will find her own strength - especially if she has to.

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People grow with the challenges they face, but only with the right kind of support. And that's often difficult to give. Once again, it is her own responsibility to get her life together, and only she knows what she wants, but it does help to be supported through this process of gaining independence. So what I would do is probably to ask her what she wants from life (what kind of job, etc.), and how she thinks she can achieve that. Then perhaps give her some job websites and phone numbers of support services, where she can get professional advice....and the rest is up to her. You can't take that step for her.

You're looking through rose-colored glasses, I think.

Maybe it's because I've read the previous thread about the girl (I'm glad you followed up, Chibi~) and I know that she's a stubborn little cookie who thinks she's got all the answers, but yet can't seem to figure anything out.

You can give only so much help in these circumstances. I have a feeling the girl will walk all over whomsoever gives her help. Give her an inch, she'll take a mile.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The mother could kick her out, for example. Rules exist for adults as welll, it has nothing to do with treating her like a teenager. Our whole society is based on these rules. It's not like she's going to say "you have to be home by 12", but rather that she's establishing a contract with her - the terms and conditions for her to live there, and how she's going to contribute. If it doesn't work out, the mother will have to be rigorous and actually kick her out, and that's probably what I see as the biggest problem, because it doesn't sound like that's likely to happen.

And to me, the cousin sounds very disoriented and unsure what she wants/can get. Her stubbornness is mainly self-protection, and it is striking that she always made her whole moves dependent on the guys she was with. That's why I suggested helping her in terms of practical advice and listening to what SHE wants, to her own ideas and plans. Of course there have to be boundaries to this as well, and things she has to do on her own, but as a starting point, it sounds like support would do her some good. Don't forget about the children.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Buy her several boxes.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Ha ha! Actually I have been iching to ask her why they did not use condoms. I heard that she was on the pill but I am not sure if it was true. This is her second child with this jerk, and it is his third, he was not happy when she told him that she was pregnant both times.

If he really did not want more kids, why didn't he use comdoms. Guess they where both absent minded.

FELIPE NO

This is where some cold, "tough love" as Sass explained, comes in handy. I have some very harsh, cold, truthful words I'd like to say to this girl, but again, she's not my cousin, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm glad you followed up on this Chibi. Looks like, as many have already agreed, that you've done what you can. You can't make anyone come to their senses but it's possible you can guide them to that point. Unfortunately, it takes quite a bit to get some motivation up.

(In my honest opinion though, this is what happens when teenagers are not slapped once in a while and put straight in their early years...but that's a different topic altogether.)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Traveller87

The mother could kick her out, for example. Rules exist for adults as welll, it has nothing to do with treating her like a teenager.

Okay, look. I don't know how old you are nor how much life experience you have or anything, but in MY house, where I live and pay for, I do what I think is right and wrong.

I set my own rules and I live by them, come hell or high water. Why? Because I am an adult. I know the difference between right and wrong, cleanliness and squalor, screw with or without a condom, so on and so forth.

I am responsible for myself. Something that this girl should try being. Instead, she is asking that other people be responsible for her actions - which is not very mature of her. I would understand if she was younger or whatever, but seriously.

My point is this: when living at home with your parents, even if to get yourself back on your feet, you really shouldn't NEED to have the rules laid out for you. Out of respect for your parents and gratitude for their letting you stay awhile, you should be on your BEST BEHAVIOR, consideration-wise.

To do otherwise is childish.

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Our whole society is based on these rules. It's not like she's going to say "you have to be home by 12", but rather that she's establishing a contract with her - the terms and conditions for her to live there, and how she's going to contribute.

Contracting with your fuck-up daughter isn't a great idea, considering she hasn't quite got a great track record.

Of course, that's my opinion. Until she showed evidence that she wants to contribute or contract, the girl is out.

I don't want to come across as some black-hearted, callous person here. I understand people make mistakes, and I understand that sometimes they need help with correcting the mistakes that they've made in their lives. God knows I've been there.

But when you repeatedly make the same mistakes and show no remorse or intention of fixing the problem why should anything be given?

Enabling is a dangerous thing - I've seen it from the levels of rich kids who can't hold a job to addicts. Sometimes, you've got to get tough to get your point across.

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If it doesn't work out, the mother will have to be rigorous and actually kick her out, and that's probably what I see as the biggest problem, because it doesn't sound like that's likely to happen.

If you can't live up to the ultimate consequence, maybe you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you'd have to consider it to begin with.

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And to me, the cousin sounds very disoriented and unsure what she wants/can get. Her stubbornness is mainly self-protection, and it is striking that she always made her whole moves dependent on the guys she was with.

Why do you think this has anything to do with life direction and confusion over where she wants to go in life? (ie: what she "wants")

The girl is a stubborn, naive little thing who thinks she has all the answers. She's going on Baby #2, living off welfare, and tugging at the hems of her mother's skirt for help.

If she wants protection, she could start using birth control, stop moving in with any Joe Schmoe (see previous thread about this particular girl), and listening to the advice of her family and/or friends who love her and want to see the best come to her and her children.

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That's why I suggested helping her in terms of practical advice and listening to what SHE wants, to her own ideas and plans.

The girl can't get her man to wear a fucking rubber. What makes you think she can plan her own life out right now??

I don't understand why you think she should explore her life desires right now. Girl needs to clean up, get a job, and support her two babies.

She should have thought about her life plans BEFORE she screwed some asshole and popped a few out. She's made her choice, and now, she has to live with it.

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Of course there have to be boundaries to this as well, and things she has to do on her own, but as a starting point, it sounds like support would do her some good. Don't forget about the children.

"Don't forget about the children." Yea, that's the entire point of my post: the mother has to make some goddamn sacrifices now. It's not time to think about college, to think about what she wants to be now that she's grown up, or whatever.

It's time to put her nose to the grindstone, bust some ass working as a waitress or something making money to feed her babies, and get the fuck off welfare.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Chibi Neko

For those of you who want the full story see the Pregnant teen needs help! thread.

Those who have read or posted on that thread will know what I am talking about.

In a nut-shell my cousin is pregnant again, the good news though is she left the jerk Chris. This child is due in January, and like her first baby, she is smoking this one too. She has her own place, but still has no job. She is living off of the government baby bonus. Chris does not come over to see his child and he cannot be made to pay child support because he too has no job and is living off of welfare.

Here is what I want advice about. While I understand that she will not be able to work full time until the second baby is born, she needs to start relying on herself a little more. She down right refuses to leave the town she is in (Trust me... there is zero opprotunity there) she says she does not want to leave her mom at all, she has to stay close to her. My cousin has just turned 20 and she is still pulling at the hem of her mother's dress as if she was 6.

I have tried explaing to her my experiences, I graduated from college and moved from home at age 19, it was hard at first, but I had to leave in order to get a job and life for myself, I am now 25 with my own house and getting married next year. I am not at all expecting her to do the same, but I think she should stop relying on her mom so much.

What do you all think? I am not really sure that to do about this situation.

Alright then. I'm just keeping in mind my own situation into comparison with this particular situation and here's my insight on it. My apologies if anything may seem offensive. I don't mean to be.



I have a child of my own. The mother was 20 when she had him. We too live in an area where there's no oppertunities for good work and even now things are difficult. I try my damndest to do absolutely everything in my power to make sure my son has everything he needs and will need.


Like your situation, the mother refuses to move to a larger area and feels she needs to be close to her family. I can understand that to a degree.

The difference though is we planned our son's birth. We wanted to settle down and start our own family. We wanted to set things for our own independance... which your cousin will need to do or it'll bite her in the ass later. It'll be extremely difficult but she made the decisions. She may be by herself raising her children but she has people around her for advice. If she didn't want the responsibility, she shouldn't have fucked him without some protection.

However, in your situation there isn't much you can do. Everyone will do what they do. You can make suggestions and opinions but that won't make anything happen. She'll just have to learn things the hard way and deal. In my opinion I do think that she should be more dependant and not so reliant. It'll be difficult and an extreme pain in the ass but in the end things will work out.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Okay, look. I don't know how old you are nor how much life experience you have or anything, but in MY house, where I live and pay for, I do what I think is right and wrong.

I'm 20 as well, like this girl, and I live on my own in a foreign country, go to uni and finance it through orphan's pension and three part-time jobs. Not that any of this is really relevant to the point.

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I set my own rules and I live by them, come hell or high water. Why? Because I am an adult. I know the difference between right and wrong, cleanliness and squalor, screw with or without a condom, so on and so forth.

I am responsible for myself. Something that this girl should try being. Instead, she is asking that other people be responsible for her actions - which is not very mature of her. I would understand if she was younger or whatever, but seriously.

My point is this: when living at home with your parents, even if to get yourself back on your feet, you really shouldn't NEED to have the rules laid out for you. Out of respect for your parents and gratitude for their letting you stay awhile, you should be on your BEST BEHAVIOR, consideration-wise.

I don't disagree with any of this. Of course this is the way things should be. Unfortunately, it's just not the way things are in many cases. She shouldn't need rules, she should be mature enough to know what she's doing, she should know and do so many things...but she doesn't. And the objective is to get her to a point where she can take care of herself, and starts taking responsibility.

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Contracting with your fuck-up daughter isn't a great idea, considering she hasn't quite got a great track record.

Of course, that's my opinion. Until she showed evidence that she wants to contribute or contract, the girl is out.

That isn't logical, though. You can't not make any demands, and then kick her out without a warning. I'd really make that contract with her, and if she doesn't abide by it (and it doesn't look like she will), that's where your tough love comes in.

I just don't think that kicking her out straight away, dumping her on the street with a baby and another on the way is the best idea. I agree that maybe she needs to feel this, she needs to experience this in order for something to click in her mind - but the danger really is that she won't know how to help herself, and that could get dangerous for the kids.

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Why do you think this has anything to do with life direction and confusion over where she wants to go in life? (ie: what she "wants")
[...]
The girl can't get her man to wear a fucking rubber. What makes you think she can plan her own life out right now??

I don't understand why you think she should explore her life desires right now. Girl needs to clean up, get a job, and support her two babies.

Her lack of direction has everything to do with it. Do you really think she got pregnant a second time by accident? She took a chance, and she knew what she was doing. Perhaps this gave her the sense of a social role (which she doesn't seem to be fulfilling adequately), maybe it was a way of keeping the guy, maybe she wanted a family...who knows, I can't read her mind. But from the way she sounds, it does make sense for her to get pregnant so young, twice, because it provides her with a role.

In any case, I didn't mean "what she wants" as in "I want to go to college now and be a doctor, and then earn millions and buy a house with a swimming pool". Of course her situation has to be considered. It's a matter of combining what she wants with what she can realistically achieve, and what her family needs. With her mother threatening to kick her out, what she wants right now should be a job, and quickly - any job. And figure out a way to earn money, and what to do with her children while she does so - which really isn't easy. These are two big things that she has to worry about right now. But she needs to know what she's doing. She needs to have some sort of plan in her mind, some sort of goal - which, right now, should be to keep her kids and herself materially all right.

That's why I think having that talk with her is still important. It's not about always telling her what to do (from the way she sounds, that really doesn't help - and if you get too judgemental, people tend to just shut down), but making her realise for herself what she needs to do. It's not easy, but it's possible if you ask her directive questions. Having that talk with her with some practical planning involved (e.g. where to find a job in that bad area, or where to go to find a job) might help. Then again, it might not, but that's all you can do at this point. It means that you at least gave it your best shot to help. It's all you can do.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Do you really think she got pregnant a second time by accident? She took a chance, and she knew what she was doing.

Actually both kids where accidents, while she still loves her current child as well as the second one when it arrives, she clearly did not know what she was doing, she said she was willing to deal with her current child, but she admitted it herself that she did not want to get pregnant again and said "I guess I will have to deal with it when the time comes"

Not using the pill or getting her boyfriend to use condoms was the really dumb part, he is either really good in bed, or she just never said no when he wanted it. I am not sure I really want to know at this point cuz neither made any responsible decisions in the first place.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

She is an anchor. Cut her away before she sucks you in further.

Seriously - I know you love your cousin but she's going to act like a willful child giving birth over and over because she's too weak to take control of other parts of her life. She can't see past her own long-term tantrum to how her choices are affecting her future, and the futures of innocent people. There is nothing you can say nor do to alleviate that.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Look. I understand accidentally getting pregnant. Sometimes protection doesn't work. It happens. Once.

This is the first piece of advice she needs to heed: put down the dick.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I do not know what your family view is on this.. But have you ever thought about giving the kid up for adoption? The first one is probably too old.. but it really sounds like she is not in a position (nor will be any time soon) to give either kid a proper home.

Then again, some may view that as the cowardice way out, but I am thinking more about the kid.

How ya doing, buddy?

Define "proper home". If she gives it up for adoption, it will change everything, for her and the older sibling, as well as the guy and the rest of her family. But I agree, she needs to give all of this serious thought and draw the necessary consequences. Because if the kids are suffering (doesn't sound like they are as long as her mum is there to "fix things" for her), somebody needs to alert social services. Like someone said in the first thread, it may just be what she needs to wake her up. Also, aren't there any parenting classes or any other support groups for young mothers in your area?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Also, aren't there any parenting classes or any other support groups for young mothers in your area?

This is something I never understood. Parenting classes? What is this hippie new age bullshit.

At the same time, I imagine these "parenting classes" cost money. Who's going to pay for that?

Jam it back in, in the dark.