Bigger travesty: Slavery vs. Holocaust

Discuss.

I think this is an interesting issue, since slavery happened in the US over a long period of time, whereas the Holocaust was short-lived and overseas. Yet, there are several Holocaust museums but no Slavery museums. Blacks are told to "get over" slavery often, but the same isn't the case with the Holocaust.

I'm black and think the Holocaust was far worse. Still, I feel there can be some debate about it, and about the ways the two events are viewed by mainstream America.

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There are actually a lot of slavery museums if you count Civil Rights museums.

How ya doing, buddy?

By a strict measure of sheer bodycount, the worldwide history of slavery wipes the floor with anything else you might care to name.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Pangalin

By a strict measure of sheer bodycount, the worldwide history of slavery wipes the floor with anything else you might care to name.

Religion?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Alright, Arainach. How many people have been killed by religion?

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Well, there were the Crusades. And the centuries of being subjected to unending, unchallenged dictatorial rule by the Church.

But then, isn't this question a little... facetious? How do we base these acts - off of "sheer body count"?

I'd say religion, in terms of time, has created a lot of hardship for people. I'm hesitant to say that it should be regarded as evil as slavery or the Holocaust, however. If we say one is worse, the other can be thrown up there, as well.

Is this just because we need a few slavery museums, Sinspawn?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Arainach

Religion?

Religion is an idea, it is not an event in itself. It has no bodycount per se.

Also, loving your sheer pettiness here. "Dudes, enslaving your fellow man is pretty bad and has been going on forever " "STILL NOT AS BAD AS JESUS THOUGH!!!!!"

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Arainach

Religion?

War.

Disease.

Poverty.

Being an insufferable prick.

terrorism!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Alright, Arainach. How many people have been killed by religion?

All those people killed by God's floods, locusts, and...um...extra oil for their lanterns.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You could be a romantic and say God, because he kills people everyday.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

IT'S GOD'S WILL THAT PEOPLE DIE =( What a prick...

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, isn't it?

Or are these people dying even though God doesn't want them to?

I mean, either God wants us to die or there wouldn't be cancer.

Just devil-advocating, here.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

All those people killed by God's floods, locusts, and...um...extra oil for their lanterns.

Touché, RR. Touché.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Pangalin

Religion is an idea, it is not an event in itself. It has no bodycount per se.

Also, loving your sheer pettiness here. "Dudes, enslaving your fellow man is pretty bad and has been going on forever " "STILL NOT AS BAD AS JESUS THOUGH!!!!!"

Fine, Christianity. Between the Inquisition, the Crusades, the various Witch Trials, the colonization and forceful conversion of North and South America, they're doing rather well on that count. If you REALLY want to be specific, you could make note of things like the fact that the Vatican objected to Hitler's euthanasia policies but not the holocaust and that one of the main justifications of the holocaust in Germany was Christian superiority and attribute the holocaust there too.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Arainach

...the various Witch Trials

Man, there weren't that many people killed in witch trials.

I mean, if you're trying to make a point about numbers killed by Christianity, citing the witch trials is like citing spilled milk. I don't even know if "Christianity" cuts it, as it's a rather BROAD, VAGUE thing.

I'm going to go with the black plague myself. Shit WIPED PEOPLE OUT. (75 million, was it?)

FELIPE NO

I don't know that you can really attribute the black plague to deliberate human intent, sir.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Pangalin

I don't know that you can really attribute the black plague to deliberate human intent, sir.

Welllllll, I mean, we all know it's not true, but at the tiiiiime, The Vatican said it was all the Jews' fault. Those dirty Jews.

But I was talking about sheer numbers dead. And I mean, yea, you can argue that people were unclean, therefore bringing it upon themselves, but thats a fucking stretch, so.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Quote:

If you REALLY want to be specific, you could make note of things like the fact that the Vatican objected to Hitler's euthanasia policies but not the holocaust and that one of the main justifications of the holocaust in Germany was Christian superiority and attribute the holocaust there too.

That's not actually religion killing people, so much as religion turning a blind eye to the killing of people.

The World Wars weren't started by religion, the Cold War and all of its proxy wars weren't started by religion, Roman conquest and Barbarian resistance was not started by religion, Communism wasn't a product of religion, Fascism wasn't a product of religion, nor was the slave trade.

Attila the Hun did not ransack Europe because of religion. Ghenghis Khan did not slaughter half of the Khwarezmid Empire because of religion.

The list goes on and on and on and on and on. Cruelties upon cruelties, all of which involving behaviors which predate religion, but that is of no concern to people like you who are so zealous in the destruction of religion that you would paint it as the worst thing to ever befall humanity with lies and half-truths, when it has only begun to hold us back.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Welllllll, I mean, we all know it's not true, but at the tiiiiime, The Vatican said it was all the Jews' fault. Those dirty Jews.

Maybe the Jews snuck said diseased rats on to the trade vessels, leading to the eventual spread of the plague?

Evil money-counters.

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Originally Posted by Arainach

Fine, Christianity. Between the Inquisition, the Crusades, the various Witch Trials, the colonization and forceful conversion of North and South America, they're doing rather well on that count. If you REALLY want to be specific, you could make note of things like the fact that the Vatican objected to Hitler's euthanasia policies but not the holocaust and that one of the main justifications of the holocaust in Germany was Christian superiority and attribute the holocaust there too.

Where in the bible does it say that thou shalt kill all thine jews? I want numbers here.

still, I say war claimed more lives than your piddling religion.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Come off your high horse. It's been used as an excuse throughout time that since the Jews "killed Jesus", they're inferior and need to be punished. Christianity has never, ever been about what the Bible says as much as it is about using the Bible to justify whatever the people in power want.

The Bible has been used to justify hatred and oppression of Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Blacks, Women, Native Americans, and pretty much any other group that isn't "White Christian Men" throughout the course of time. This shouldn't be news to anyone.

I was speaking idiomatically.

It's really greed that kills the most.

Whether it is power struggles, warfare, civil strife, profiteering, revolutions, or land grabs, a whole lot more people are killed in the zeal of greed, and this encompasses many acts that would otherwise be put into categories such as religion or genocide.

Disease, being a natural agent, has no such emotions, so it doesn't figure in what is the worse evil.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

If you think the Bible enabled people to portray the Jews as the "Other" you've got another thing coming.

The Bible wasn't needed to portray the Irish as sub-humans, for instance.

You're saying that religion is culpable for being the weapon, and not the people that wield it.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Bradylama

If you think the Bible enabled people to portray the Jews as the "Other" you've got another thing coming.

The Bible wasn't needed to portray the Irish as sub-humans, for instance.

You're saying that religion is culpable for being the weapon, and not the people that wield it.

As they say "guns don't kill people . . . "

How ya doing, buddy?

If we're going to be blaming things like religion, we might as well make the final leap to the source of all evil - testosterone. Every attrocity since the evolution of the first mammal can be directly attributed to those two spheres swinging between (half of) our legs. Someday mankind will eradicate this vile substance, and we'll live in a peaceful (and possibly catty) utopia.

Jam it back in, in the dark.