[Classic] The Storyline of Final Fantasy VI *Spoilers*

What is your insight on the storyline of FF6? Who thought it was magnificent? Who thought it was just average?

I feel that it is the most overrated storyline of all time in games.
Just because the music is brilliant and pulls us in during some of the scenes does not mean that the whole plot ended up being perfectly well-rounded or the game had a magnificent ending.

I am asking for some more insight because the storyline is often brought up amongst my friends & people online and it is spoken of like it is equal to perfection.
Am I the only one that believes that it had a great start but really, Kefka ended up getting what he wanted by destroying the world like that, anyway?

Feel free to state what you highly like or dislike about the storyline. Use this if you need quotes:
http://faqs.ign.com/articles/429/429392p1.html (Entire Game Script).

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The beauty of FFVI is that Kefka does destroy the world and yet the hopes and dreams of the characters allow them to pick themselves up and continue living. If it's the bleakness that bothers you, it's pretty obvious in the ending that life was returning to the world and that it would soon recapture its former glory. Rebirth is definitely a big part of what FFVI is all about. FFVI has a character-driven story. Some people can't deal with the absence of a linear plot to push things forward in the World of Ruin, but it's no secret that that aspect of the game is polarizing for how it differs from the World of Balance. Either it propels the game to greatness for how it dares to let the game be carried on the strength of its characters or it reduces the game for leaving you without the Empire conflict that played a role the first segment of the story. For me, the former has always been the case. I love the World of Ruin and how it serves to put the emphasis on the cast even more than the first half did. At that point you're pushing forward because you care about these characters and not because the plot is forcing to go you from scenario to scenario. Either way, it's a terribly old argument and one that I'm sick of talking about. I should think that you'd have gotten over your problem with this by now and come to a final decision, but I see that you're still uncertain. In the end you may simply have to accept that some people see something you don't. Everyone has their own way of judging and appreciating stories. However, if you're serious about trying to develop a new perspective on FFVI's story and aren't just searching for like opinions in order to validate and reinforce your own, then reading this might help:

http://mysite.verizon.net/respxabq/ethergeist/id25.html

Watching this might help too:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23185.html

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I did indeed rate it a 7.5 out of 10, but I felt that the ending was more of some kind of character-building segment rather than an epic battle against a foe who is trying to destroy everything but hasn't yet.

Here is what I mean:

"Terra: I know what love is...!
Locke: And I have learned to celebrate life... and the living.
Cyan: My family lives on inside of me.
Shadow: I know what friendship is... and family...
Edgar: It is my dream to build a kingdom in which I can guarantee freedom
and dignity."

I like the fact that in FF4, for example, the reasons why the characters fight is to save the world and also to get revenge on the entity that attacked Damcyan, Fabul, Mist Village and other places.

In FF6, they had to look for reasons within themselves to pick their "butts" up and start fighting. In almost all other video games, the reasons for fighting is clear and plain as day. There is a threat and it must be eradicated. Also for revenge purposes / character anger (emotionally strong reasons to do act).

Perhaps I just didn't like the latter: "reduces the game for leaving you without the Empire conflict that played a role the first segment of the story."
and the fact that it was harder for both the player and the character in the story to find a reason to fight within the context of the plot.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

"Terra: I know what love is...!
Locke: And I have learned to celebrate life... and the living.
Cyan: My family lives on inside of me.
Shadow: I know what friendship is... and family...
Edgar: It is my dream to build a kingdom in which I can guarantee freedom
and dignity."

[Directed to final party:] This is sickening... You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet! Prepare yourselves! - Kefka, Final Fantasy VI

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

That part of the game sounded just like that... I agree with Kefka. I'm not supposed to agree with the final boss of the game, so I wasn't a huge fan of how the game boils down to that, however, I did score the story a 7.5 / 10 so it wasn't too bad anyway.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I went for a 9.5, primarily because of the ending...Because the second half of the game is open-ended and many characters are optional, they couldn't have been written in like they were in the first half. A minor drawback, considering how much fun it is acquiring them. Still, I wish there was more to do with them, but there's more than enough...That's the mark of a good game, that you're always left wanting more.

One thing totally pisses me off: Where the fuck does Mr. I'm-So-Fucking-Important-In-The-Opening-Hours Banon end up? Just...written off. THAT has always annoyed me about FFVI's storyline. Oh, and the elder doesn't really explain much about Narshe in the second half either...DETAILS PLEASE!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Borg1982

In FF6, they had to look for reasons within themselves to pick their "butts" up and start fighting. In almost all other video games, the reasons for fighting is clear and plain as day. There is a threat and it must be eradicated. Also for revenge purposes / character anger (emotionally strong reasons to do act).

I don't mean to sound flamish in anyway, but look at the top post for a moment, and look at what I see wrong with it.

If you are like me, and see everyone around the world complaining about lack of originality, then you'll understand why I think that Borg here is about the only one not complaining about originality nowadays.

The fact that FF6 DOESN'T do the general "OH EM GEE, the world is going to end by some evil guy, we have to kill him because we are just average people with nothing better to do, and it's the right thing to do!" Kind of angle, or some destiny bs is the reason why the storyline is so good.

God forbid video game characters actually NEEDING a reason to fight other than "It's the right thing to do" or "I need revenge!!!!" It gets old, frankly.

FELIPE NO

Borg, I think that while it is clear that nostalgia plays a role, the reason why FF6 is still held in such high regard is for what it attempts to accomplish. We can debate if it does it well or not, but I give Final Fantasy VI credit for being something different up until that point. It was seeking to deliver that character-driven story, and was the prototype for later games that downplayed the actual plot of "saving the world" and replaced it with deeper characterization.

There are problems with the game that needn't be ignored. The plot does falter at times, and one wonders, like GoldfishX said, what happens to Banon, and about the complete lack of all-out war that seemed to be so impending. The Empire was always on top, but almost comically so, and for the deranged clown figure in the Empire to win and create some evil world is really, for the lack of a better term, dumb.

But the fact that the important characters - ignoring incidentals like Relm or pure placeholders like Umaro - develop deep reasons to defeat Kefka is enough to make it stand out when it came out. Perhaps the act of having the characters really read like a self-help book at the end shows the simplicity of the medium - these lines, if need to be said at all, would have been much more powerful spaced out in individual scenarios. But to ignore what FF6 did for video games everywhere is really a travesty.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

That part of the game sounded just like that... I agree with Kefka. I'm not supposed to agree with the final boss of the game, so I wasn't a huge fan of how the game boils down to that, however, I did score the story a 7.5 / 10 so it wasn't too bad anyway.

Final Fantasy has always dealt badly with humor. Unlike its rival, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy is a bit too serious to have a funny villian. Kefka is great at times, but he makes us feel that the most important scenes in the game is corny. He sort of is that little voice in our head that will occasionally speak out and say, "This is really dumb, you know."

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

The characters in say, FF4, have their reasons to fight based upon what happened to them or their families. I can detect an extreme urge to go to the moon as quickly as possible and save the world.

The characters in FF6 have to scan their brains for reasons to do something in the world of ruin, which completely destroys any sense of suspense for the player. However, (and I will paste this in almost every post in this thread to remind people): The concept that FF6 used in the world of ruin is still a 7.5 to me. It is a good concept. Not the best or most suspense-filled thing ever, but good. This thread is about how highly overrated I believe the storyline is especially given the things that left us hanging in the world of balance.

EDIT ADD-ON -- Hachifusa: So what would you score FF6's story out of 10 then? Vote I'm wondering this to understand your opinion fully because you said some of the negatives and some of the positives but with no clear "score". (I'm guessing high? But 8, 9 or 10...?)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

All right. 8.5. Automatic 7 because of the nostalgia, and an extra point and a half because it holds up pretty well thirteen years after the fact.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Kefka wasn't just comical though, he was DERANGED. He wasn't always so, though, but the game never did a good job at explaining things past "he was messed up in an experiment to augment his magical powers".

"Final Fantasy VI: Settai Shiryou" was a book published by Square in Japan, which was basically a "perfect works" or Ultimania book. It went pretty deeply into Kefka's history and you can clearly see there was a good person (or at the very least, a not insane one) in there before he spiraled into madness.

According to the book Kefka was infused with an evil esper called María, which was what drove him insane and probably conquered his mind. He had been infused with it around the same age that Celes was when she was infused and it didn't seem to effect him very deeply for several years. Infact, his first "major breakdown" where he had become clearly insane (started dressing in gaudy clothing and wearing makeup...) was three years prior to the events in the game. He wasn't much different than Leo originally, except they clashed with one another often because Leo despised Magitek while Kefka embraced it and found it fascinating (as did most of the empire).

http://forums.ffonline.com/showpost....9&postcount=63
http://forums.ffonline.com/showpost....3&postcount=65
http://moonreading.lunarpages.com/tr...rldhistory.txt
http://moonreading.lunarpages.com/tr...opolitical.txt

You can read some translations of the book there but it's mostly just a timeline and the character pages for Kefka and Celes. People at the FFO forums are trying to translate the whole book but it's a slow process making sure the translations are correct. I know it doesn't change the fact that the story wasn't all that well fleshed out, but it does explain why a garish clown like Kefka could have risen so high in power and have been trusted so much by the emperor despite his obvious insanity. He just simply put wasn't always like that and for the final three years trust in him had been waning, he had been demoted from a higher position even before the game started because of it. According to the book, María is the demon you fight right before you finish off Kefka at the end of the game as well -- and is figuratively his mother too.

"Born of María, the fallen angel, this child was destined to destroy the world, and overthrow the gods themselves."

Hopefully someone else will find that interesting, because I've always loved the game and was pretty excited to see people translating this book (I knew it existed before but could never convince anyone to translate it...) so that I could see what Square originally had in mind for some of the characters as well as their origins and such. It helps separate canon and fiction at least.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I am asking for some more insight because the storyline is often brought up amongst my friends & people online and it is spoken of like it is equal to perfection.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

This thread is about how highly overrated I believe the storyline is especially given the things that left us hanging in the world of balance.

Yeah, okay. I hope you see the difference there.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

The characters in say, FF4, have their reasons to fight based upon what happened to them or their families. I can detect an extreme urge to go to the moon as quickly as possible and save the world.

I don't. The only one who had a personal tie to the goings on of the moon was Cecil. Just based on how much you love the game, you're giving FFIV credit for things it doesn't go for. None of the characters are driven by revenge in FFIV. (except for Edge up to but not after Rubicant) Ultimately, they're united under one 'save the world' banner like in every other RPG. That's why it has been explained to you the importance of FFVI shooting for something different. FFVI attempted to give each character their own story and motivation while maintaining a central theme to the story. I think it succeeded and perhaps you didn't, but your reasoning doesn't strike me as based on anything substantive. Only some skewed comparisons to FFIV. Not enough suspense? They had to scan their minds? Please. They didn't scan their minds for anything that wasn't tied in to who they were in the first portion of the game. The only exception is Setzer, whose story we didn't know about until Daryl's Tomb.

I'll give FFVI's story a 9.5 because nothing is perfect, but it was still more daring for its time than most RPG stories are today, even featuring interactive elements like the Emperor's Banquet scenario which haven't been reproduced in the era of FFVII clones. Few RPG stories can compete which didn't draw something from it. What do people generally regard as the best RPG stories? Xenogears? Suikoden II? Final Fantasy Tactics? I think FFVI can still hold its own against those, so yeah, 9.5. It's a classic, taking what FFIV tried to do in terms of creating a dramatic overarching story built around specific character stories and expanding upon it considerably. Just that it had an open-ended second half. That might make it a pain for JRPG purists, but I think it adds to the ageless credibility of the game. I think it means more for an RPG to pull something off in non-linear fashion so as to involve the player than for an RPG to be like a Xenosaga and hit you with a deluge of cutscenes.

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I really, truly do not want to come off as a snob here. So, with as much sincerity as I can muster, I would suggest reading some actual literature before discussing the storyline of Final Fantasy VI in this manner. I think you'd appreciate it even more for what it is after taking this approach.

I was speaking idiomatically.

That...is some pretty crazy stuff, Forsety. I didn't know about that. Although I'd hate to think that some people would suddenly change their mind about the game because of it, which they shouldn't, it makes for some interesting discussion.

Edit: That Maria thing isn't certain though, is it? It seems like that one was solely Wiki info and not the word for word stuff that LockeCole translated. Just like the Thamasa thing.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Judging on the rest of the topic over at FFO the Maria thing seems like canon, but the last bit of the wiki article was not (The Thamasa bit with mention of Clyde and such).

At the very least it's certain she was the esper he was infused with and was the strange female part of the "tower" you fought during the last boss fight. And I entirely agree, I didn't post it hoping to change anyone's minds about the storyline -- I just noticed people ragging on Kefka for being a comic relief character/villain and thought this would be a nice read for them (and for anyone else that happened to be interested).

Basically, I just felt it fit well with the discussion about the storyline and it seemed relevant enough to post, ya know?

FELIPE NO

If the Maria thing is true, then it sure does make FFVII seem a lot more similar to FFVI than it already was, minus the 'mother earth' thing of FFVII. Not that it's a problem for me, since I like both games, but it could be surprising for people who like one and despise the other. Oftentimes having played one first seems to result in a lower opinion of the other. And usually the *largely irrelevant, but I digress* argument of post-FFVI Final Fantasy fans against FFVI is that Kefka had no motivation or backstory, which this would seem to change. It doesn't change the nature of the World of Ruin though, which is the other thing that irks some people.

I'm definitely interested in whatever new details might be found out from this thing. There must be more of those character history pages in there besides just Kefka and Celes. Maybe it'll cover more on Shadow's past than the mysterious stuff we see in the game. It might make certain the vaguely hinted relationship between Shadow and Relm.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Somewhere in the massive topic, it at least confirms that Shadow is roughly 30 years old during the events of FF6. He was robbing trains and such when he and Baram were about 15~16 years old so that narrows things down slightly. The topic veered away from him unfortunately in favor of the empire, Kefka and Celes, though, since there seemed to be a much larger pool of information about that stuff. (understandable, since the empire was a much larger chunk of the game's focus than Shadow was)

Kefka being like an older brother to Celes was pretty odd, as a lot of that stuff was. Not because it was unbelievable, but just because absolutely none of it came up during the course of the game. Then again, Locke and Celes had a poor romance plot to say the least as well, so it didn't truly surprise me all THAT much that such things would go unresolved.

I'm sure they'll eventually get back to Shadow and whatever else remains in the book. It's only 96 pages long, though, and it appears like maybe it was made with the thought that there would be three books made all together and this was just part one of that three.

I like these books, there is one for Final Fantasy IV as well which is actually a good deal translated. (http://home.att.net/~RCgamusic/ff4comp.htm) I guess that would make borg happy and give him something nice to read; though I myself am much more interested in seeing the rest of the FF6 translations get finished.

The topic did touch on how similar the Maria/Kefka thing was to FF7 as well. It's a pretty long topic but I read through it all anyway just to see what was true and what was debunked. It certainly added a new layer to the game for me but I already appreciated the game in the first place. I didn't need this to convince me that the game had a decent storyline.

For sake of staying slightly on the original topic -- I gave the plot about a 8.5 as well. Nostalgia played a large part, but I can't give it any higher than that because I do realise there was a lot left unresolved and plenty that was just never touched on at all. The books Square shove out always do this, but at least in most of the games (FF7 and such...) the majority of what is mentioned is mostly confirmations for things people already suspected, rather than being entirely new information nobody would have ever guessed in a million years. (ex; Prime Minister Kefka?) Eheh.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Forsety

For sake of staying slightly on the original topic -- I gave the plot about a 8.5 as well. Nostalgia played a large part, but I can't give it any higher than that because I do realise there was a lot left unresolved and plenty that was just never touched on at all. The books Square shove out always do this, but at least in most of the games (FF7 and such...) the majority of what is mentioned is mostly confirmations for things people already suspected, rather than being entirely new information nobody would have ever guessed in a million years. (ex; Prime Minister Kefka?) Eheh.

What was unresolved? I thought the various character stories were tied up pretty well. Even the smaller stuff like Duane and Katarin. Sure, Banon disappears, but that's actually more excusable than Rowd completely vanishing from Suikoden II, if just because the end of the world makes it safe to assume a lot of things. I won't even get into the second disc of Xenogears.

Prime Minister Kefka is just a title. FFVI never had a political storyline that was THAT intricate, but then look at the Wutai versus Shinra war element of FFVII. That's pretty fuzzy and not touched upon much. FFVII has a lot of muddled elements anyways that make it difficult to determine the nature of the Sephiroth and Jenova relationship, which is why theories have always floated around. Not to mention the ambiguous and frankly unsatisfying ending, which actually seems to conflict with what they show in Advent Children. How about the Rinoa = Ultimecia stuff in FFVIII? I never gathered that from playing the game. What I might agree with is this notion of a close relationship between Celes and Kefka. If it's suggested in the game, then it's only barely so, and pretty much only through the way that Kefka gives Celes a chance to rejoin them and goes berserk when she stabs him. But again, it doesn't hurt the story in the game, though it opens up the floodgates of doubt as to what else might've been minimized or removed.

Just out of curiosity then, what RPGs would you consider to have 'the best' stories, or at least 'better' stories than FFVI which merit scores of 9 and over? I can think of a number of RPGs myself that have better or at least more 'complex' plots, but I can think of few that deliver their stories as well as FFVI. Even so, I think an 8.5 score is fair, depending on how you look at it. I look at the core plot as something seperate from the storytelling. FFVI has a simpler plot compared to some RPGs (however, the way it's structured is fairly complex), but the way it's told through its cast is what gives it its power, and is ultimately the most important aspect of a story for me. Other stories have more going for them in terms of the plot, but the storytelling isn't necessarily as good.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I've never seen such majestic words used for such silly things. I personally don't think SIX's story is overated since I never really hear people raving about it. Maybe people who rave about SEVEN and TEN are just louder. I could go into detail about why I like SIX's story, but it's all been said above.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Prime Minister was Kefka's title before he got demoted from his massive breakdown. The books timeline and structure make it seem like the empire was a place built upon the dreams of a man unifying a country that was torn between three smaller "city-states" which were constantly at war. It definitely tries to give you a more realistic look at the workings of the empire rather than the basic look you get in the game. (where they actually break down some of the positions and help you get a look at what the character's were doing before you tried to take them down) Totally understandable anyway, though, as I can't think of many games with a great amount of history or inside look at most anything anyway. It's just not necessary information for what was the basis of the actual plot. It's a nice read to me anyway, though, since I always like reading about empires and how they are built, maintained and inevitably fall.

Just a few things left unresolved to me were Banon (as was mentioned), Narshe (though this isn't necessary, some subplot about what happened there and rather everyone died or left would have been nice regardless), and Celes and Locke's romance subplot which pretty much died entirely after their scene in Albrook. Though I know there are some hints of feelings between them on the solitary island if you let Cid die, since she has his bandanna when she attempts to kill herself, I'm not sure that's canon since you can save him anyway and it's still just an extra scene proving she liked him rather than any actual resolution involving their feelings for each other.

I agree about Kefka/Celes. It was likely only hinted at in those select moments and even then, barely so. It's why I said it doesn't strike me as unbelievable at any rate. They did just enough in-game that it didn't seem like it came out of left-field, just that it was odd.

My main reasoning for a 8.5 rather than a 9 or a 9.5 is simply that the cast drove the plot up to a point, and then as with many people, I had a slight issue with the way the WoR was setup. No longer was it really driven by the characters but instead with generic dialogue shared between the whole cast (Having Edgar in the team, or having Relm, it didn't matter as instead of a specific line from the character it would be a generic text string that all characters shared -- it was obvious because such lines were simply in quotations rather then actually following a name.)

You have a good point about Rinoa/Ultimecia though. I never really expected that, either. I think I blocked that game from my mind when typing that cause of how much I detested the orphanage subplot. Heh.

As for better storylines, it's hard to tell. I loved the way FF6 was setup, and because they are remaking FF4 on the DS (with added plot and a stronger emphasis on the love triangle as well) I have some hopes that maybe they'll remake FF6 and at least attempt to rectify the last half of the game by adding a little bit more substance to the storyline. It wouldn't hurt to see some flashback scenes involving Celes and Kefka, to show a slight humanization of his character at least in regards to one of the main characters.

Games with better plot progressions though... maybe Tales of the Abyss, as much of a problem as I had with some of that game it at the very least had a pretty solid storyline start to finish, which involved the entire cast and never banished one to being worthless as the game's plot progressed. I'm sure that's why many games focus on smaller casts at any rate is it's easier to keep a character written stronger in the storyline so that you never feel someone is "dead weight". Final Fantasy 6 had a lot of great characters but it had it's share of dead weight without a doubt. Especially as the game went on and their plot threads were resolved, they lost their meaning and it became hard to keep them written in the storyline because of it.

...And now I'm rambling incessantly trying to explain what I mean and probably just making it come out more confusing in the first place.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I personally don't think SIX's story is overated since I never really hear people raving about it.

Indeed. And yet there are always people asking, 'what's so great about it'? Damn anime whores eat up Chrono Trigger but criticize FFVI. It's not fair. I love Chrono Trigger, but why must it be the only pre-PS1 RPG that escapes any kind of criticism from the post-FF7 RPGer crowd? Because of the Lavos effect, which Jenova and Deus copied? Bah. Appropriately enough, the extra backstory of Kefka makes him seem more and more similar to Sephiroth in terms of his origin story and descent into madness. And I always thought their backstories were similar anyhow, what with how they were both experiments gone wrong and the products of evil empires bent on world domination.

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Maybe people who rave about SEVEN and TEN are just louder.

Ten might have a more 'clean and concise' *cough*cliched*cough* story in some respects than FF6, but that doesn't mean its content is more compelling (in fact, I think ten's cast is terrible), and there's nothing special about an overly linear JRPG storytelling approach. The Lete River split in FF6 is more unique than any storytelling device of ten. Yet ten has the dream of the fayth business and a giant tick supervillain, which apparently makes it great. Not to mention sliding down a wire and the legendary laughing scene. How rad.

Seven is whole different animal. I like it a lot, but there are definitely problems in the details of the story, and I don't think the writers themselves were sure of where they wanted to go with it, which is evident in the cliff-hanger ending. And Red XIII with kids? I thought he was the last of his kind? So what explanation do newly revised Ultimanias have for that one?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Oh yeah, I think a better example than Tales of the Abyss would probably be Persona 2 for the PSOne. It kept all the characters involved with the plot and had a good core storyline going for it at the same time. I'd rate that game a very solid 9.5 or even a 10 if I were being generous and also assuming 10 just meant "fantastic" rather than perfect. (since no game can be perfect)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

"One thing totally pisses me off: Where the fuck does Mr. I'm-So-Fucking-Important-In-The-Opening-Hours Banon end up? Just...written off. THAT has always annoyed me about FFVI's storyline. Oh, and the elder doesn't really explain much about Narshe in the second half either...DETAILS PLEASE!"

"There are problems with the game that needn't be ignored. The plot does falter at times, and one wonders, like GoldfishX said, what happens to Banon, and about the complete lack of all-out war that seemed to be so impending."

These statements from people who give the game a higher score than me are exactly the reasons why I thought the game was only a 7.5. I do, however, understand Kefka and his insane attitude. I don't think they are going for comedy. I believe they are trying to make him seem insane -- which he is.

Sure, FFIV is linear, but who says a non-stop linear story is bad? In this game, it starts off with a great need to protect and salvage the crystals before Zemus/Golbez gets them because doing so would mean protecting the world. It almost feels like a race to some kind of finish line. A critically important race. Throughout the story, some characters' castles are attacked & infiltrated, others want revenge, and the rest are looking for answers about who they are and where they belong because their individual "worlds" were ruined (Cecil's king was a monster; Rydias village was bombed and she eventually finds the land of the summoned monsters, etc).
The story does not stop.

As this game is 3 years older than FFVI, I can understand that the execution is not as excellent. The character sprites are smaller, however, they are capable of making us witness emotion anyway. There are not as many graphics, either. FFVI eventually had mountains/hills shifting positions. Brilliant.

I am very much hoping for the FFIV DS remake to have great execution.
From where FFIV starts, I hope to see those wizards in Mysidia killed in the flashback in a much better-looking way. However, I am capable of understanding the scene -- a very powerful scene of a few small character sprites disappearing into thin air means that they were slaughtered because they were in the way of the crystal.

I believe the execution of FFIV is low, which does not help matters for some gamers, but I believe the intensity of the scenes is at a maximum. Remember when Tellah finally meets Golbez? Remember when Kain is, for some reason, attacking his own best friend that he grew up with? Remember when certain characters sacrifice their health for the benefit of everyone else?

Imagine all these scenes with the graphics & execution of FFVI! (The "FFVI-style" remake of FFIV).

Back to FFVI, I just felt that the plot was brewing into something gigantic and that it exploded in the favor of the enemy instead. After that, it seemed a little depressing. There seemed to be a lack of intensity. Everything felt slowed down.

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Originally Posted by Forsety

Celes and Locke's romance subplot which pretty much died entirely after their scene in Albrook. Though I know there are some hints of feelings between them on the solitary island if you let Cid die, since she has his bandanna when she attempts to kill herself, I'm not sure that's canon since you can save him anyway and it's still just an extra scene proving she liked him rather than any actual resolution involving their feelings for each other.

I kind of like that they never confirm it. I thought it kept it sincere. How the FF games went overboard with the love stuff afterwards is something I don't get. The only exception was IX, which I thought handled its love story pretty well, but I still have more of a soft spot for Locke and Celes. It may never have progressed beyond a sort of close friendship or puppy love, but it was convincing, and I think everyone can believe based on what they saw that Locke and Celes got together afterwards.

Originally Posted by Forsety

My main reasoning for a 8.5 rather than a 9 or a 9.5 is simply that the cast drove the plot up to a point, and then as with many people, I had a slight issue with the way the WoR was setup. No longer was it really driven by the characters but instead with generic dialogue shared between the whole cast (Having Edgar in the team, or having Relm, it didn't matter as instead of a specific line from the character it would be a generic text string that all characters shared -- it was obvious because such lines were simply in quotations rather then actually following a name.)

Ah, the World of Ruin... Well, it had to be that way I suppose given the nature of being able to recruit who you wanted and in whatever order, and the nature of the open-ended gameplay. I didn't mind the "Let's take Shadow to Thamasa!" type stuff. Each character did have unique lines of dialog for their sidequests, and it was still their personal struggles that took the spotlight. Just that instead of being driven by the characters and the predetermined pacing, it's driven by the characters and you. There's one notable exception to what you're saying though, and that's Gau's concluding story, where characters play specific roles and have specific lines while they're dressing him up and such. Also, I believe that Celes is the specific character who talks with Locke after he tries to revive Rachel.

Originally Posted by Forsety

As for better storylines, it's hard to tell. I loved the way FF6 was setup, and because they are remaking FF4 on the DS (with added plot and a stronger emphasis on the love triangle as well) I have some hopes that maybe they'll remake FF6 and at least attempt to rectify the last half of the game by adding a little bit more substance to the storyline. It wouldn't hurt to see some flashback scenes involving Celes and Kefka, to show a slight humanization of his character at least in regards to one of the main characters.

I fear that there may be more to lose in the process if they aren't careful, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

Originally Posted by Foresty

Games with better plot progressions though... maybe Tales of the Abyss, as much of a problem as I had with some of that game it at the very least had a pretty solid storyline start to finish, which involved the entire cast and never banished one to being worthless as the game's plot progressed. I'm sure that's why many games focus on smaller casts at any rate is it's easier to keep a character written stronger in the storyline so that you never feel someone is "dead weight".

Hmm, I haven't played that one. As for Persona 2, I've only played a little ways into it. I imagine that one has to slog through Innocent Sin in order to get the full effect though, right?

Originally Posted by Forsety

Final Fantasy 6 had a lot of great characters but it had it's share of dead weight without a doubt. Especially as the game went on and their plot threads were resolved, they lost their meaning and it became hard to keep them written in the storyline because of it.

One of the reasons that I do hold the game in high regard is because the characters manage to remain involved in the story. They all maintain an investment beyond just being there to support a lead character. In a game like Final Fantasy Tactics, a lot of the guest characters are involved in the story, and then when they join your team, they simply stop being involved. Or in Xenogears, the second disc focuses so exclusively on Fei and Elly that you'd hardly know the supporting cast was there anymore if it weren't for them picking up their Omnigears. FFVI does a pretty job of giving every character some kind of individual focus, even if some like Relm and Strago (who suffer from appearing late in the WoB story, but they're functional) are weaker than the others. FFVII, which has a smaller cast of characters, actually has a harder time keeping characters like Barret and Red XIII involved in the plot throughout the duration. It was terribly odd for me when I got to the Northern Crater and Tifa asked to be placed in the party. It's like, "okay, the game needs her for the next scene and they couldn't think of a way to justify it". Freya and Amarant are pretty much dead weight in FFIX as well, and Quina is, well, Quina.

Basically, I think FFVI handles its large cast pretty well, all things considered. It's not perfect, but nothing is, and it could've been worse. Look at Chrono Cross.

Oh, and Banon becomes Duncan. Strange that Banon was written out (Arvis disappears too), and then Duncan, a character who may as well have been all but forgotten, shows up with the same sprite but a different color pallette. I'll admit that Banon vanishing was a bit odd, but fortunately the themes of the game do go deeper than the surface story of Empire versus Returners. If it was anything but the end of the world, I might've had more of a problem with it. But the fact that the world does get totally rearranged was drastic enough for me to accept that Banon and co. simply ceased to be of any importance. Our characters had nothing left to rely upon but their own strength and that's how the story continued.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

FFIV has a linear storyline but the GBA remake manages to add Yang, Cid, Porom, Palom, etc in the middle of the game so you can pick them when you want.

Jam it back in, in the dark.