[Multiplatform] Nintendo 64 controller versus psx dualshock

The Dual Shock. Two analogs that can be clicked in, 10 buttons and a d-pad makes it the superior choice. It's actually possible to utilize both the d-pad and the analogs at the same time, unlike the Nintendo 64, so designers made use of this. (Although, seems mostly just after the Playstation 2 was released, so maybe that's an unfair comparison.) Using the d-pad as method of movement isn't that common nowadays outside of sidescrollers, shmups, and fighters, but its use as a weapon switcher/quick menu is still damn handy.

The Nintendo 64 controller was alright, I suppose. Except for this one time the N64's hard plastic analog actually peeled off a large layer of my skin playing an analog-intensive mini-game in Mario Party. ...It wasn't particularly pleasant.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Argh. The n64 controllers become worn down incredibly quickly. I like how it fits in my hand, but older controls become unresponsive with the joy stick due to wear and tear. Strangely enough, this is one controller that wasn't built to last, which is strange as Nintendo tends to make some of the most durable equipment on the planet. I've heard so many stories of people running their games over with cars, flushing game boys down the toilet, leaving games outside all winter and then having them work perfectly.

If a mouse farts in a room, the n64 controller breaks down and starts sobbing uncontrollably.

I like the comfort of the ps controller. Dualshock is simple and is comfortable to hold for extended periods. The joystick doesn't get worn down, which is good.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Despite its odd design, I did find the N64 controller worked well for some games at the time. The trigger on the bottom fit FPS games quite well, and the C-buttons worked well enough for camera manipulation and as movement in FPS games that used a Turok-style control system. Unfortunately, many games seemed to suffer from it: trying to play virtually any fighting game with the C-buttons was a chore, not to mention the d-pad section of the controller was practically never used, making it feel like a third wheel.

The Dual Shock was rather nice, although a bit harder to get used to. The position of the analog sticks isn't quite as comfortable, but the symmetry of them felt natural for many games, including Katamari Damacy. The analog click and just plain number of buttons made almost any game work well enough on it. And of course the built in rumble was nice as well, it's really surprising how often I overlook that until I actually go to play one of the older consoles that doesn't have it built in (or even the Sixaxis, ironically).

Overall, I liked the Dual Shock more, and its design was influential enough to carry on throughout the generations.

Originally Posted by RABicle

HAHAHA what? Set the standard for today's controllers, except 66.7% of them? Gimmie a break. And the 360 controller has far more in common with the Dreamcast than the Dualshock, which itself borrowed heavily from the N64 and SNES. To call any controller a standard setter is ridiculous.

No, the Dual Shock did set a standard, it was even given an award for it. After the Dual Shock, every console in the following generation except the Dreamcast adopted a dual analog, rumble-enabled, handle-gripped controller, and the Xbox 360 even went as far as adding in the extra two triggers as well, as well as analog stick buttons. Plus, the Dual Shock design was even adopted on PCs as the main form for gamepad controls, at least until Microsoft started pushing the Xbox 360 controller as the standard.

I liked the Dreamcast/Saturn analog controllers, but the only features from them that were really utilized in other consoles were the analog triggers and basic placement for the left analog stick/d-pad. Too bad the VMU/controller screen didn't live on.

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The dpad has been relegated to joke status since Super Mario 64.

Which is quite ironic, since Super Mario 64 DS relied on a D-pad for control (unless you wanted to use the extremely awkward touch screen controls for the game).

How ya doing, buddy?

I feel rather torn on this. Granted, the Dual Shock is the more enduring design. However, when the Playstation originally came out, there weren't ANY analog sticks or vibration. The Dual Shock didn't come out until AFTER the N64 did. So if you want to talk about "setting the standards," you have to look at the N64 first.

However, I will admit that the Dual Shock is better-designed, if not as innovative.

Eh. Fuggit, I voted for the N64 before I wrote out this post and thought it through. Guess my inner child which is stuck in his bedroom playing Star Fox 64 to death is still kicking around.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Dual Shock. I loved Star Fox 64 as well, but the Dual Shock was superior to the N64 controller. It was smaller, didn't have as many loose parts, and had two analog sticks (sadly I don't remember both being used that much).

I got the Dual Shock controllers (as opposed to the original controllers), but I was young so I never noticed anything wrong with the analog sticks (and I haven't until you guys brought it up). Did the DS have R3 and L3 buttons, or is that only DS2?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Whoever wins, Sony loses. The Dual Shock is just a Super Nintendo controller with more shoulder buttons, analog sticks copied from the N64 controller (though placed in a more ideal layout, to Sony's credit), and bastardized face buttons with shapes instead of letters.

FELIPE NO

Dual Shock in a deserving landslide:

The only legitimate gripe I've ever heard against the DS is it's awkwardly placed left analog. While I can definitely see that as a problem for some it isn't a problem for me thus it's my dream controller.

Above all the DS murders the N64 controller in fighters. While the N64 didn't have many, if it were to have the same library of them this would be no contest. The D-pad was microscopic and the asymmetric placement and uneven size of the buttons is unfriendly.

In action adventure games I still chose the DS. I like the idea of being able to switch between controls. Take a game like Devil May Cry. While running around the analog stick is fine, but when it comes to fast twitch action I can effortlessly switch to the D-pad; double tapping on a thumb analog is annoying.

Moreover the DS is a dual analog with more quickly accessable buttons. The L3 and R3 make 10 compared to the N64's 8, and if a programmer wants they can use the D-pad as an additional four. The N64 has a d-pad as well, but you have to change grips in order to access it.

Lastly while it's true that the N64 was great for 1st party games it doesn't completely outshine the DS in those same games (emulation).

All of that said in my eyes this is an "Anything you can do I can do better" situation. There's just no type of game I can think of where the N64 controller will be head and shoulders above the Dual shock with the exception of a slow paced game where you can play a majority of it with one hand controlling and one action button. In that case the N64 controller would be marvelous as I'd have one hand free to drink or eat while I'm playing.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

It's a bit of both, really. N64 controller was generally excellent, my only complaint was the loose dpad which was far bigger than on the SNES (and then they proceeded to shrink it to ridiculously small sizes from there on). Button placement was excellent and the best games designed for the system made great use of the layout. Sure, it probably sucked for Mortal Kombat, but if you're a dullard who wants to play Mortal Kombat on the N64, you're.. a dullard. It's still the best analogue stick on any controller. My stick never became loose (still using the first controller I had years ago), I've no idea how badly you people abuse your controllers.

The PS1 controller, or dual shock generations altogether. They have the best dpad of the past few consoles, even though by any other standard the dpad is pretty bad. Yet the other dpads on offer are even worse. GC dpad had the best shape, but small size combined with awful placement made it largely unusable for long periods of time.

Dual Shock's layout was a direct ripoff of the SNES pad, indicative of just how awesome that controller still is. You had two sticks instead of one and no one really had a clue what to do with the other one. These days outside the FPS they still don't seem to, but luckily most third person games have eased us into the need to directly control the camera.

I just wish they'd make proper use of the analogue sticks. Nearly every third person game, even today, only has run, walk and stop as speeds, instead of proper analogue movement like in Mario 64 or Halo. Most of the time the deadzone for stop is far, far too big and the zone for walk around it is really tiny (see Tenchu Kurenai). Manhunt was one of the few PS2 games to make great use of analogue movement.

I'm probably one of the few who thought the Dreamcast's controller was and is an awfully uncomfortable piece of design, even though the analogue stick is good and it gave us triggers. The dpad is a good shape but it protrudes from the controller far too much making it painful to use.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Qwarky

I'm probably one of the few who thought the Dreamcast's controller was and is an awfully uncomfortable piece of design, even though the analogue stick is good and it gave us triggers. The dpad is a good shape but it protrudes from the controller far too much making it painful to use.

Don't worry, I hate the Dreamcast's controller too! We can form an exclusive club! Cramps my Hulk hands up something shocking pretty much the instant I touch it, even the Jaguar's elevator control panel controller didn't do that! I guess if I have to pick one for this GameFAQs battle deluxe thread, it'll be Cloud Strife. Dual Shock. It wouldn't be very good if I didn't like it, then what would I be playing my PS2 games with? A horse? That would be awkward.

N64's controller was pretty rad though, it's still the only controller I've enjoyed fumbling around with for first person shooters. That's what destroyed mine though, the power of GoldenEye Oddjob slap fight multiplayer nights (also Mario Can't Enjoy This Game Because It Has Primary Colours On The Screen Kiddy Party). Now I have to use this disgusting third party beast that's bigger than my monitor.


See, huge. But the control stick on this doesn't grind into dust!
It's made of top grade clown meat metal instead of plastic, that's why.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Qwarky

I'm probably one of the few who thought the Dreamcast's controller was and is an awfully uncomfortable piece of design, even though the analogue stick is good and it gave us triggers. The dpad is a good shape but it protrudes from the controller far too much making it painful to use.

I have to agree, because the Dreamcast controller gave me terrible RSI, and stopped me from gaming altogether for a couple of weeks. The weight distribution was terrible, it was even worse than the XBOX original controller, which is far more widely criticised.

I don't really think the DualShock is as perfect as everyone else seems to think. The tension on the sticks isn't nearly enough, and the positioning of them leaves much to be desired. However, any controller ever would beat the abysmal N64 controller. Not just because it had a bad layout, but also (primarily) because it was so fragile. The only ones I have left have a weak and limp analogue stick. I can compare them directly to Sony pads of a similar age, and they just haven't stood up well, even though the Sony pads have been used more.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Hotobu

Above all the DS murders the N64 controller in fighters. While the N64 didn't have many, if it were to have the same library of them this would be no contest. The D-pad was microscopic and the asymmetric placement and uneven size of the buttons is unfriendly.

Are you kidding? The N64 Dpad was BIGGER than the Dual Shock one. Are you thinking of the Gamecube or something? And I could've sworn that everyone agreed that 6 face buttons was better for Street Fighter style fighters than 4.

Originally Posted by Hotobu

In action adventure games I still chose the DS. I like the idea of being able to switch between controls. Take a game like Devil May Cry. While running around the analog stick is fine, but when it comes to fast twitch action I can effortlessly switch to the D-pad; double tapping on a thumb analog is annoying.

Oh a horribly designed 2.5D capcom game that wasn't even playable on the PSX. GOOD EXAMPLE MATE!

Originally Posted by Solis

The Dual Shock was rather nice, although a bit harder to get used to. The position of the analog sticks isn't quite as comfortable, but the symmetry of them felt natural for many games, including Katamari Damacy. The analog click and just plain number of buttons made almost any game work well enough on it.

Wow you won that point. A game that didn't come out until 2004 or wahtever, we can now retrospecitively realise the genius of the design of the Dual Shock when applied to Katamari Damacy.

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Which is quite ironic, since Super Mario 64 DS relied on a D-pad for control (unless you wanted to use the extremely awkward touch screen controls for the game).

Kinda the point. Super Mario 64 DS is pretty much unplayble with a dpad, hence why dpads are entirely irrelevent to anyone who wants to play any form of modern video game.

Originally Posted by Skexis

Played Symphony of the Night on XBL lately?

No. Are you still living in 90s world or something?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

This thread makes me want to replay all those N64 classics with a Dual Shock. I clearly remember that when I first laid my hands on the N64 controller, I didn't quite understand how to hold that awkward thing properly. At first, I even tried reaching the analog stick with my left hand thumb from the outer grip.

I probably spent more time figuring out the controller handling for a new game than actually playing it. Still, the controller turned out to be excellent for a few games once you learned how to use it.

Having used both controllers quite extensively, I can't help but say it takes some serious fanboy bias to prefer the N64 controller over a Dual Shock for most games. The Sony controller is far from perfect, but it's still amazingly comfortable and equally suited to a large variety of games.

I have to second the Dreamcast controller criticism, though my main gripe with it was that the VMU/Rumble Pack positioning made it impossible to comfortably hold that thing.

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Originally Posted by Qwarky

Sure, it probably sucked for Mortal Kombat, but if you're a dullard who wants to play Mortal Kombat on the N64, you're.. a dullard.

MK Trilogy wasn't great but Mortal Kombat 4 is the best of all ports in my opinion. as in: better graphics, real shadows (compared to the blocky shadows of the psx and pc versions) and no pixelated blood.

I loved that game ;_;

Also, you could play both mk games with the d-pad and it felt right, although mk4 was nice to play with the joystick. plus you could remap the buttons if you wanted to so you could alway put the snes layout for those games if you wanted.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Infernal Monkey

Don't worry, I hate the Dreamcast's controller too! We can form an exclusive club! Cramps my Hulk hands up something shocking pretty much the instant I touch it, even the Jaguar's elevator control panel controller didn't do that! I guess if I have to pick one for this GameFAQs battle deluxe thread, it'll be Cloud Strife. Dual Shock. It wouldn't be very good if I didn't like it, then what would I be playing my PS2 games with? A horse? That would be awkward.

N64's controller was pretty rad though, it's still the only controller I've enjoyed fumbling around with for first person shooters. That's what destroyed mine though, the power of GoldenEye Oddjob slap fight multiplayer nights (also Mario Can't Enjoy This Game Because It Has Primary Colours On The Screen Kiddy Party). Now I have to use this disgusting third party beast that's bigger than my monitor.


See, huge. But the control stick on this doesn't grind into dust!
It's made of top grade clown meat metal instead of plastic, that's why.

ha I used to own one of these XD

the joystick will get loose in no time! XD

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by RABicle

Wow you won that point. A game that didn't come out until 2004 or wahtever, we can now retrospecitively realise the genius of the design of the Dual Shock when applied to Katamari Damacy.

Yes, that is actually the point, since the controller was designed well enough that it could still be used for new and different control schemes even 7 years after it was released. I'd say it's a pretty damn good controller design when games can advance UP to its level while managing to not hinder existing games in the process (which I really can't say for about most of Nintendo's controller designs).

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Are you kidding? The N64 Dpad was BIGGER than the Dual Shock one. Are you thinking of the Gamecube or something? And I could've sworn that everyone agreed that 6 face buttons was better for Street Fighter style fighters than 4.

The problem wasn't that it had 6 face buttons, it's that it had 6 face buttons of 2 different sizes and 4 of them were so small it was practically impossible to use them efficiently. The Saturn pad was a great 6 button solution, since the 3 upper buttons weren't much smaller than the main ones and were still easy to use and press. It's clear that the N64's C-stick buttons weren't designed to be used as action buttons, and in that case you'd almost be better off using a 4 button controller with triggers instead.

FELIPE NO

I, for one, loved the N64 controller. It fit well in my hands and my hand was quick enough to switch between the analog stick and the d-pad when I had to. Ah, the fun times I've had playing Duke Nukem: Zero Hour and Goldeneye 64.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I prefer PS1's controller. Analogue sticks aren't necessary for 90% of PS1/2 games but it's nice to have that available to you.

The 64 controller was fine for things like Goldeneye, KI2, Pilotwings, etc. Did any game specifically make use of holding the dpad and analogue stick positions? I remember watching some video advertising the 64 and the "three positions" but most of the time there were only two.

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Originally Posted by Elixir

The 64 controller was fine for things like Goldeneye, KI2, Pilotwings, etc. Did any game specifically make use of holding the dpad and analogue stick positions? I remember watching some video advertising the 64 and the "three positions" but most of the time there were only two.

I think at least one of the wrestling games did, NWO vs. The World or some such abreviation. Also Sin and Punishment had a control layout where you could use the D-pad+analog stick configuration, but then you don't have enough buttons to switch between lock-on and free aiming modes so it was kinda worthless...

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by RABicle

No. Are you still living in 90s world or something?

Still living in fantasyland where games lose credibility 3 years after they're released?
Why do you even care about which controller is better if you're not going to be using any of them to play games?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by RABicle

Are you kidding? The N64 Dpad was BIGGER than the Dual Shock one. Are you thinking of the Gamecube or something?

The N64 dpad is not bigger than the DS one.

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And I could've sworn that everyone agreed that 6 face buttons was better for Street Fighter style fighters than 4.

Who is everyone? If everyone doesn't include me (which it doesn't) then why should I care what anyone else likes? I prefer the four button face because I can use my thumb to press the four face buttons and use my index/middle finger to hit the R1/R2 buttons. With six buttons on the face I have to use just my thumb. More fingers over the same amount of buttons = better control.

Furthermore as I explained the buttons on the N64 pad are unevenly sized and asymetrically spaced.

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Oh a horribly designed 2.5D capcom game that wasn't even playable on the PSX. GOOD EXAMPLE MATE!

It is a good example. We're talking about the merits of a particular controller when playing games. Egronomically speaking the PS1 and 2 Dualshocks are the identical. Why should I restrict myself to talking about PS1 games?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Hotobu

blah blah blah

Shut up, no one cares.

I think I had quoted your comment with the intention of making fun of it but sitting there it was jsut too disgusting to look at so i deleted it and now I can't even remeber whatever worthless shit you had to say. All I heard was that your tried to justify Street Figheter but it sounds like you don't even play with an arcade stick, so you don't even care about fights at all DO YOU HAVE AN AR YOU DONT? FUCK OFF THEN!

Devil May Cry is shit. Full stop. The fact that it works on the dual shock is a strike against the Dual Shock.

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Originally Posted by neothe0ne

Whoever wins, Sony loses. The Dual Shock is just a Super Nintendo controller with more shoulder buttons, analog sticks copied from the N64 controller (though placed in a more ideal layout, to Sony's credit), and bastardized face buttons with shapes instead of letters.

Companies copy their competition blatantly all the time. Like the PS3's home button and the Wii's home button copying the 360's home button, etc. It doesn't matter to most people. All people care about is themselves, what they want, their entertainment, and what games they're most likely going to purchase.

Originally Posted by Hotobu

The N64 dpad is not bigger than the DS one.

Uh yeah it is.

I'm not sure if you've been around a fighting game on the DS lately (Guilty Gear Dust Strikers, Jump Ultimate Stars, etc) but it's a pain in the ass trying to play them with such a tiny dpad.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

By DS he meant Dual Shock. But the N64 dpad is still slightly bigger.

As for the pad layout and holding dpad + analogue stick, it was intended to be used by flight simulators and such, but they didn't really make any. Bangai-O was played like that, which was made all the more clear in the DC version (though still playable).

As for the whole playing N64 games on the Dual Shock, that'd feel as uncomfortable as playing SNES games on a keyboard for me. A lot of emulator dudes are fine with it, but it reeks of compromise and it makes me retch. The best games make the best of their hardware and design their controls around the controller. This is why Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time and halol and Viewtiful Joe are so thoroughly excellent. They were built around the interface and work so well.

Sure, you can play Ocarina of Time on a GC pad, and probably on a PS1 pad, just like you can play PC FPS games on a console controller. But it's a compromised solution, a flawed experience. Ocarina playing on the GC pad felt terribly awkward and compromised. Making it an annoying chore to get over with, instead of the natural feeling instrument playing it was in the original.

Same way with most console FPS games. They just lazily dump PC keyboard + mouse controls on the two sticks of a control pad and to a degree it works. You can play it. But it doesn't mean it doesn't still feel horribly awkward, disorienting and floaty most of the time.

This is what I was aiming at with the Mortal Kombat comment, Spark. I didn't mean MK specifically, I meant wanting to play a game not designed, nor suitable for the controller and therefore the hardware.

FELIPE NO

DualShock wins, hands down. Especially when you put it in the ring with the N64 Controller. Way to make a controller that you can't even fully use without having to switch your hands around.

The N64 and Dualshock d-pads are about the same size really, though the DualShock's feels infinitely more refined. Compared to the DualShock, With the N64's d-pad it feels like you're rocking a coin on a ball bearing.

As for stealing or "we had it first!" arguments, I really could not care less who first used an analog stick or vibration function.

[edit] What lix said. Also, fuck Immersion corp.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Dual Shock for me. It is THE game controller. It can handle mostly any time of game [RPG, Fighting, Racing, Flight Sim Arcade etc etc], where as I felt everytime I played the 64 controller, it was only built for shooting games. I was not impressed with it at all. I think Nintendo lets invention and innovation get to their heads too much.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I have always hated the Dual Shock controller, I never owned a PlayStation and when I had a PS2 I already owned a GameCube and the Dual Shock sucks in comparison to the GC controller.

Though I must agree that it's better than the N64 control, let's not forget that the Dual Shock is a re-design. A fairer comparison would be to compare the old PSX controller and the N64 controller, which the N64 would win hands down.

There's nowhere I can't reach.