Girls, myself, and religion apparently can't mix

In terms of female companionship, these last few years have been downright grueling. I've been with two girls who were religious and have both dumped me because I'm atheist. Because I choose not to believe in God, I'm unacceptable to them.

My first girlfriend was Mormon. It wasn't until about a month after we started dating that I found this out. Soon after, she asked me about my beliefs, and then everything slid into ruin after a series of melancholy and awkward MSN conversations.

Second was Christian. This one lasted a solid three months. I knew she was religious, and I probably was wrong to date her from the get-go, but what we had was something I don't know I'll ever feel again. I'm certain that her parents had a part to play in convincing her to break up with me once they knew I was atheist.

I don't know how this keeps happening to me, but my current girlfriend and I are about to breakup. She's also a Christian, though I've noticed she's a lot more lenient in her ways. It's been two months since we've started dating, and only one month since we made our religious beliefs known to each other.

I don't want to break up with her! I'm sick and tired of this happening to me, all for nothing. These women are all beautiful inside and out, and aside from religion, nothing should have kept us apart. In every case, they all had to choose between me or God and I still don't know why to this day. Why do they have to make this choice!? I'm not Satan in human form, and I'm not evil in the least. In fact, I have a strong set of morals, maybe stronger than some religious people I know. The thing is I would NEVER degrade anyone, much less a mate, because of their religion. Why can't we just not bring up the subject while we're together?

Lastly, I had considered lying to my current girlfriend about my beliefs, but I'm sure the cat would be out of the bag in no time. I've also thought about the possibility of becoming Christian simply to keep us together. While I don't actually believe in God, I believe in spirituality and the afterlife. I would hope we could connect to each other in that sense.

I could really use some advice.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, try to understand from their point of view. A very common case I find is when a Christian girl or guy starts dating someone outside Christianity and isn't strong enough in faith, slowly but surely, they start to leave, no matter how morally set the other party member is. Doesn't always happen like this, but pretty common.

I can suggest 2 things right now.

#1. If you're opened minded about it and stuff, try going to church with her and stuff, I'm sure it'll really make her happy to that you're trying. If it doesn't work out for you, then you'll probably have to face break up. Under any circumstances, I'd ask that you don't take her away from her religion if worst comes to worst.

#2. Break up, and stop dating religious girls. Pop the question casually earlier in a new relationship if they're religious.

Your choice though, you could call this 3 times the charm and see how church might work out for you and her. I'm Christian myself so I'm trying to be as least biased as possible here.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The girl I dated for 2 and a half years was a staunch atheist, where I am a staunch Christian (though not necessarily prudish and strict, I do believe strongly in God and Jesus.) She was pretty awesome, and when we broke up I joked with her about how she'd have to turn lesbian to find another atheist-vegetarian since there aren't many guys out there like that.

With the Mormon girl, you just had crappy luck there, pal. Most Mormons are taught that "you marry who you date" and so dating outside of the religion is strongly discouraged (though not forbidden.)
The Christian girls could be the same way. Despite my being strongly religious, a girl I was interested in - who was also interested in me - refused to date me because I was not a "true Christian" in her MOTHER'S mind. Yes, this girl was over 18 too. Pfft.

While religion has never really been a factor for me in my relationships, having hooked up with an atheist, an agnostic, a new age spiritualist, a Mormon, a former polygamist, and a couple of Christians... I do however understand how it is so important to them in a relationship.

It's not that they think you're evil in any way. It's simply that a lot of Christian families are brought up to believe that if you are not Christian, you are going to hell. Not because you're evil, but because you "choose" to be "ignorant" of the "truth of God" so to speak. Many religious people view things in terms of the eternal perspective - so why get involved with a guy who is going to hell, when you could have someone who's going to heaven instead?
Another problem is all the pressure and (one might call it brainwashing) that a lot of Christians (especially girls) go through. Such as the example with the girl who was interested in me but wouldn't date me because of her mother's beliefs. A lot of the time, if their peers find out they're dating non-religious guys, they get all kinds of dirty looks and negative reactions from people, ranging in severity from mild to extreme. I've actually seen this one in action, and it's not pretty. Almost anyone would break down from that kind of pressure.

I wouldn't necessarily blame religion for all of this, by the way, just the stupidity of people.

Anyway, my advice to you would be about the same as Greykin's. One interesting way you could break into the religious topic REALLY quickly without worrying about awkwardness is to display a cross - either on your neck, or in your car, etc... I have one in my car - and inevitably she will go "oh, are you religious?" at some point during your first interactions. You can then say "no, not at all, I just like how it looks. Are you?" At that very moment, you can tell by her reaction if it's going to be a problem. If she starts lecturing you on wearing a cross when you're not religious, kick her to the curb If she goes "oh..." and gets all quiet, you'll probably need to abandon that one, too. If she seems interested in at least hearing WHY you think it's cool looking, that's a good sign. And if she laughs and says "me neither, that's kinda funny you have a cross though, you weirdo" then you're good.

How ya doing, buddy?

I had the same problem until I met the girl I'm with right now. I had gotten really tired of my girlfriends putting (G|g)od before our relationship, because they were always priority one to me. It was never what actually ended the relationship (one, we'll call her "L" to protect her privacy, went traveling; the other, we'll call her "S" though I could give a damn about her privacy, was a living, breathing collection of DSM-IV case studies) but it made things tense. I remember a moonlit walk at L's college, talking about how happy I was to be with my then-sweetheart, and the reply was "Me too. I think someone up there is watching out for us." Um, no, how about credit where credit's due? We did it ourselves, and I'd at least like credit for my part. S was far worse. I was under constant bombardment to convert, give up my sinful ways, come into the light, the relationship will never work unless I do, we can't have non-Catholic children, must have a church wedding, on and on and on. I tried my best to appease S, going to church functions and masses and god knows (hrhrhrhrhr) what else, but after a while I realized it wasn't going to be enough until I was a "member of the team." It got pretty disheartening, too, since I cared about them both a lot. I know L loved me back, though she was shy about saying it sometimes, but with S it felt like "Your love and affection are worthless if you don't love Jesus first."

For a couple years after that I was talking to a girl online who seemed far less religious (though still spiritual, but in a hippie/zen kind of way); alas, that never panned out.

Last summer I finally had had enough of the "game" and registered on eHarmony. One of my conditions there was that I did not want to be with someone who was religious. I would be willing to take someone who proclaimed themselves to be a follower of one religion or another, but I was sick and tired of having an invisible man in the sky put before me in a relationship that was supposed to be about togetherness and interpersonal affection. Shortly after registering I met my current girlfriend, and I couldn't have found a better one. Not religious in the least with a healthy dose of cynicism about religion in general, she's never once judged me on any basis other than how I conduct myself toward her. Matters that are my business stay my business, and matters that are hers stay hers. Talks of marriage always conclude with a decision to be married by a JP as churches give us both the creeps.

Anyway, where I was going with this is that it pays to find out about things like this very, very early on. I feel your pain--it's not easy being of a religious minority and trying to pursue relationships. With S, my being a Wiccan (at the time) was tantamount to me professing my allegiance to Satan, and L gave me the copout response "No matter what god you pray to, it's really all the same one." That one never sat well with me, but I didn't want to express how offensive I found it for fear of screwing up the relationship. Having since given up on religion altogether and found a science-nerd girl, my life has taken a significant turn for the better.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Guardian

I don't want to break up with her! I'm sick and tired of this happening to me, all for nothing. These women are all beautiful inside and out, and aside from religion, nothing should have kept us apart. In every case, they all had to choose between me or God and I still don't know why to this day. Why do they have to make this choice!? I'm not Satan in human form, and I'm not evil in the least. In fact, I have a strong set of morals, maybe stronger than some religious people I know. The thing is I would NEVER degrade anyone, much less a mate, because of their religion. Why can't we just not bring up the subject while we're together?

I imagine if you're strictly religious and your partner isn't, at some point in the future you're going to have kids, and it'll be a pretty huge decision on how you're going to be raising them.

I was speaking idiomatically.

It would seem that the option is for her to choose betweem me or Big Guns upstairs. I really wish it wouldn't have come down to this, but it's worth asking isn't it? I'm pretty sure the answer won't involve me, but closure to the whole situation would do wonders for my aching soul. Should/When things come to an end, I'll probably follow your advice, Greykin, and start weeding out the religious ones.

I'm totally open to going to church with her. I can at least act like I believe in God but, of course, I don't think it'll ever truly sink in.

And the thing about kids... my parents left it up to me whether or not I follow religion. However, I guess I was a little biased in that they haven't gone to church since I was born. When I have children, I would leave it up to their mother just to avoid conflict. Besides, from what I've seen, there's nothing wrong with the values they teach in church.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

My boyfriend and I are getting married and we are both of different faiths, he is a Catholic and I am a Pagan, we love eath other and we love to talk about our faiths, we have no conflict because both faiths teach to love and respect.

It can be done, you really seem to want the relationship to work out, if your girlfriend is using religion to break up with you, it is a poor exuse. You said so yourself that you have a strong set of morals, you may be atheist but that does not mean you diss religion, that is something she needs to understand.

Both of you need to share your beliefs, and if she leaves, then she is not as open minded as Jesus was.

At least that is my opinion.

FELIPE NO

That's a beautiful thing you having going on Chibi. Congratulations!

To be honest, I wish more people would see things from your point-of-view. However, I'm sure this would cause all kinds of commotion everyone has their own take on what religion is and how far they take their beliefs.

I can't really blame my girlfriend for not seeing things my way, since some religious friends of mine have told me they've been kind of "brainwashed" into certain ideas about God since they were little. For the record, I don't care if the people here are biased towards God or not. I'd like all opinions from both sides of the fence.

The storm is coming any day now. I'm waiting for her to come back from a trip with her family, and I'm certain we're going to break it off. In reality, she's going to be breaking up with me, while I pretend that it's mutual. I have a lot of hate going through my mind right now. Questions I'd like to stab at her are: "Why can't you be open-minded about other people's beliefs?", "Why are you letting an invisible force control your life?" and "Do you honestly believe that believing in God equates to happiness in your life?" Of course I can't ask those.

Maybe I just don't understand, maybe I don't care. I don't even want think about how much I hate the idea of religion right now.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I live in a Christian family and have not yet disclosed my views to them...chaos will ensue eventually. In the meantime, it's so easy to pretend because America is at its roots and Christian country, and my phrases I say are God-ish.

As for the girls, you've just had bad luck. If those losers think that they are too good (or their parents think their children are too good) because Atheists are inferior because they won't go to Heaven, then they don't really love you. I think at that point they were looking for a way out, because that's a very weak argument. I am a very big Atheist, and to the people who can't accept me the way I am...that's their problem.

I haven't had a girlfriend at all, but considering who I know and hang out with religion won't be an issue.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

I imagine if you're strictly religious and your partner isn't, at some point in the future you're going to have kids, and it'll be a pretty huge decision on how you're going to be raising them.

I recall a distant Irish relative of mine who was living in Ireland when things were still pretty damn heated between the Catholics and the Protestants. She was catholic and the man she married protestant (also a side note on the kids; they alternated between sects for each child, so that's one way of solving it). Admittedly they are both branches of Christianity but being so separated at the time, my point is that you can have conflicting religious views and make things work.

It seems like you go for girls who are intensely religious; if they don't want to value you highly enough based on your personality and looks but instead feel religion is the most important thing to have in common with their partners, you should leave. I'm not saying there's no point in trying to make things work between you and your girlfriend, but if you find yourself at a moot point where nothing will make it right then give up.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Heh, it not like I have a fetish for religious girls. :P

I'm thoroughly attracted to women who have self-respect and morals. Evidentally, it seems that only females of faith have these kind of traits? Not that I'm saying an atheist can't be a kind and loving person. It just seems to go against this stereotype. :\

(I am an unlucky sort of person though...)

For all it's worth, we officially broke up today. She wants to be friends, but I'm not keen on it. We've been together for a very short amount of time and having her around would be like masochism for my heart. I'll deeply miss our chats about everything, but I guess the situation is permanent.

Thank you for your views, everyone.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Chibi Neko

My boyfriend and I are getting married and we are both of different faiths, he is a Catholic and I am a Pagan, we love eath other and we love to talk about our faiths, we have no conflict because both faiths teach to love and respect.

You know, that's actually pretty much my stance on it. I can respect religions just fine and people's beliefs are their own and if you have a common respect for those beliefs you're pretty much on good footing. I've had my share of broads who freak out over religion but I suppose these things happen. My best advice is: If they don't like it, fuck 'em. Plenty of fish in the sea and all that jazz.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bernard Black

I recall a distant Irish relative of mine who was living in Ireland when things were still pretty damn heated between the Catholics and the Protestants. She was catholic and the man she married protestant (also a side note on the kids; they alternated between sects for each child, so that's one way of solving it). Admittedly they are both branches of Christianity but being so separated at the time, my point is that you can have conflicting religious views and make things work.

I imagine neither of them were very deeply religious if they believed there really wasn't too much of a difference between their two groups. My parents are of different religions (dad's Jewish mom's some sort of Christian one) and neither of them is very much into it, so they didn't feel compromising on their faiths was a huge deal (and pretty much left my brother and myself to be brought up without any sort of religion which I'm pretty fine with).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Greykin

Well, try to understand from their point of view. A very common case I find is when a Christian girl or guy starts dating someone outside Christianity and isn't strong enough in faith, slowly but surely, they start to leave, no matter how morally set the other party member is. Doesn't always happen like this, but pretty common.

O man, what a crock of shit.

The same could be said of atheism. I think you're a little biased, aren't you. Must be Christian. "See it from her point of view." WHAT point of view? "I want you to believe what I believe NOW!" ???

Quote:

#1. If you're opened minded about it and stuff, try going to church with her and stuff, I'm sure it'll really make her happy to that you're trying. If it doesn't work out for you, then you'll probably have to face break up. Under any circumstances, I'd ask that you don't take her away from her religion if worst comes to worst.

O, who are you kidding. Why should anyone have to "try going to church with her" when she's not necessarily willing to forget about her god in return?

Are you high? There's "open-mindedness" and then there's "doing something to get some pussy."

My advice: Find a girl who shares some beliefs with you, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, whatever. If you can't find that, try someone who is willing to make a nice compromise. Not necessarily an atheist chick, because thats just being an asshole, closing the doors on potentials like that. Maybe a nice Christian girl who doesn't think her religion should run her life. I've known a lot of Christians who believe in whatever and are really, genuinely nice people. And as an added bonus: they don't harp on about crap day and night!

But seriously, I hate this "go to church as a compromise" crap. I hate to promote conflict, but really. Ask her to give you the same favors in return (which are hard to do - thanks Christianity)

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#2. Break up, and stop dating religious girls. Pop the question casually earlier in a new relationship if they're religious.

Yea, no shit.

If religion is an important (or completely UNimportant) thing to you, you should try to consider it in your list of priorities when it comes to dating. I know that I could never date a very religious person - I don't share my foundations in morals with that person, and this will introduce a LOT of conflict in my future with a person.

It seems to be bothering you a bit to date girls who have religion as a priority in their lives - thats fine. There are moderate girls out there, you know.

But it's important to explore each other and your mutual interests and needs before throwing yourself full-throttle into a relationship. If you know the religion thing gets on your nerves as an atheist, try to find someone who you can work with a little better - someone who is a little more willing to compromise.

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Your choice though, you could call this 3 times the charm and see how church might work out for you and her. I'm Christian myself so I'm trying to be as least biased as possible here.

PFFAHAHA, FAIL.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't think I'd ever want to date a religious girl. I don't see how it's something you can overlook in a relationship. Every week when she goes to church and you don't, that's a reminder of the difference in views between the two of you.

I've considered dating some church girls, because you find attractive and pleasant people who are christians just as often as you find ones who are not, but I don't think it would be fair to either of us. My current girlfriend is just like me, completely atheistic. Somewhat openminded, but not likely to partake of organised religion in any form.

I'm in full agreement with most of what Sass said, including the part where she said that there are more moderate christians out there. I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying that I prefer to choose an atheist partner, and cut out the possibility of dischord.

FELIPE NO

Sassafrass, you are my hero (heroine, apparently!). <3

One other question that's been riddling me. If a person can dump another because of religious beliefs, how can they morally keep friends who are of different faiths or none at all? You can expect only your partner to hop to God's side of the fence while your best friend can go scot-free? Are there separate rules for platonic and romantic relationship?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Guardian

One other question that's been riddling me. If a person can dump another because of religious beliefs, how can they morally keep friends who are of different faiths or none at all? You can expect only your partner to hop to God's side of the fence while your best friend can go scot-free? Are there separate rules for platonic and romantic relationship?

I think there really are (or should be) different rules. I don't actually have any Christian friends right at the moment, but that's not by design. I could potentially have some Christian friends I don't know about, because they just never talk about it. That's the rule between friends; don't make it an issue.

When I have had Christian friends, they knew that there was one simple way to keep things conflict free. Do not prosyletise to me, and I will not say anything negative about your faith in return. That's necessary. It is about respect.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Guardian

One other question that's been riddling me. If a person can dump another because of religious beliefs, how can they morally keep friends who are of different faiths or none at all? You can expect only your partner to hop to God's side of the fence while your best friend can go scot-free? Are there separate rules for platonic and romantic relationship?

I have several very religious friends. I actually get along with all of them (otherwise they wouldn't be my friends lolz), but we try to keep our mutual religions and lack thereof out of our friendships. We appreciate each other for each other - not what we believe in.

Being in a relationship with someone who has a strong opposing religion is more difficult then being friends. Consider you don't sleep with your friends, you don't live with your friends, you don't want to combine your bank account with your friends.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I don't understand why you have to be so offended by what I said, or sound offended. Anyways, here's a reply.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

O man, what a crock of shit.

The same could be said of atheism. I think you're a little biased, aren't you. Must be Christian. "See it from her point of view." WHAT point of view? "I want you to believe what I believe NOW!" ???

The same could be said for atheism indeed, so why is it still wrong? It happens, so I don't know why you'd call it a "crock of shit".

When I said see it from her point of view, I mean how she feels dating someone that it outside her religious circle. The parents usually worry about their child and they usually know that themselves, so to try to make things for comfortable, they ask them to come to church or whatever to try it out.

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O, who are you kidding. Why should anyone have to "try going to church with her" when she's not necessarily willing to forget about her god in return?

The point of going to church wasn't to get in the sack or something like that. It was to see if this was something for him. If he were to go to church to only get closer to her and fake it, then it's not going to work out later anyways.

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Yea, no shit.

If you agree with what I have to say, there is no real need to say that.

------

Originally Posted by Guardian

Sassafrass, you are my hero (heroine, apparently!). <3

One other question that's been riddling me. If a person can dump another because of religious beliefs, how can they morally keep friends who are of different faiths or none at all? You can expect only your partner to hop to God's side of the fence while your best friend can go scot-free? Are there separate rules for platonic and romantic relationship?

A friend and girlfriend is on different levels though. With friends, I maybe ask them once or twice if they want to hear anything about my religion, if not, then I can say I gave it a chance. As long as they don't pressure me to do drugs or anything of that sort, then they're friends to me, Christian or non-Christian.

With a relationship, if you're looking long term, you'll be living with this person and seeing them basically everyday and waking up beside them, I don't know why I can't explain it right now, but it's a totally different aspect than having a friend who is non-Christian.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Greykin

I don't understand why you have to be so offended by what I said, or sound offended. Anyways, here's a reply.

Because your advice was widely a bunch of shit, frankly.

"Why not go to church with her when you already know you're not a Christian." Unless you're going to get a blowjob in the alter, this is unecessary and goes beyond "compromise."

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The same could be said for atheism indeed, so why is it still wrong? It happens, so I don't know why you'd call it a "crock of shit".

Atheists in general lack the belief or faith to instill in anyone. We can't really push an agenda, though frankly, there seems to be a division in atheism these days. Some act like it's a religion when it's sincerely not.

Besides. Christians have it built into their religion that they have to peddle their god on the sidewalks, what with the whole evangelism thing. How else would they bulk up in numbers.

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When I said see it from her point of view, I mean how she feels dating someone that it outside her religious circle.

Unecessary. Same advice goes to her as it does Guardian: Look before you leap. If religion is soooo important to you and yours (the general "you," not you personally), what the hell are you doing with an atheist.

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The parents usually worry about their child and they usually know that themselves, so to try to make things for comfortable, they ask them to come to church or whatever to try it out.

Maybe it's just my perspective, but I consider that lying to oneself.

I don't think it's a fair compromise, and thats what I am trying to tell you. A nice, quiet conversation over a dinner table wherein everyone at the table talks about what they believe and finding common ground seems like a compromise - not dragging someone to a temple or a church.

And frankly, the parents can give their input? But if their child is a legal adult, ain't SHIT they can do to change their son or daughter's mind.

Don't let your religion control you.

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The point of going to church wasn't to get in the sack or something like that. It was to see if this was something for him. If he were to go to church to only get closer to her and fake it, then it's not going to work out later anyways.

He already stated he's an atheist. He's obviously given it a little thought. I don't think he needs to go to some organized religion meeting point to discover Jesus or God more. Why bother with the church to explore whats inside of you?

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If you agree with what I have to say, there is no real need to say that.

I didn't agree with everything you said, not to mention you could have cut right to the chase with the statement. Instead, you went on about how he should "compromise" and go to church with her to see if "Christianity was right for him!" Maybe it's me, but I would be offended.

How ya doing, buddy?

I suppose you can never please everyone. I'm not going to continue this arguement since I know it'll be endless until one of us reaches the "i win".

I will reply to one thing though:

Quote:

If religion is soooo important to you and yours (the general "you," not you personally), what the hell are you doing with an atheist.

Because you love them, so naturally you'd want them to be saved so you can see them in heaven as well.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm Christian, and I'm currently in a lesbian!relationship with a girl who is a Satanist. We both make it a point not to make religion our defining bond within our relationship, although we have had a few mild spats about our beliefs. Nothing truly epic or that would compromise what we have together.

I'm a firm believer that you're allowed to think what you want and believe what you want, so long as it doesn't hurt anybody or isn't scientology. Religion is good and can be a great way to bond with people, however, it shouldn't be the only thing that brings and keeps you together.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Greykin

Because you love them, so naturally you'd want them to be saved so you can see them in heaven as well.

Naive.

I don't believe in that romantic and movie-esque "I love them, therefore I can't control myself" schtick. Act like an adult, already.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Besides. Christians have it built into their religion that they have to peddle their god on the sidewalks, what with the whole evangelism thing. How else would they bulk up in numbers.

Most Christians I know in real life don't go around preaching to others about how they're so great and I'm so terrible because I don't agree with them. Most tend to go by the guidelines of leading by example and showing how faith in God can help lead to a higher quality life.

Edit: And what's naive about greykind's comment? If I believed in an afterlife and all of that jazz, I imagine I'd want the person I felt the deepest connection with in this world to be around with me in the next.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Greykin

Because you love them, so naturally you'd want them to be saved so you can see them in heaven as well.

Is this why she dumped me? Because IF there is a heaven, she absolutely has to see me there for her to have a happy life on mortal Earth? Sounds more self-convoluted to me than really having anything to do with actually believing in God.

I know I keep interrupting with my lame questions, but I'm really in the dark about the specifics of religious relationships.

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