Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

To answer your second question, I wouldn't want to play thought police.

Previous statements indicate otherwise.

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Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

You mean besides the senseless bombings in the name of Allah the Almighty? Or the corruption of morals by allowing people to pay the church to forgive their sins? What about all the religious wars?

To answer your second question, I wouldn't want to play thought police. Religion is already doing that. I want to stop the thought policing if you will.

I believe in God, and I believe that Jesus Christ was sent as my saviour so that my sins could be forgiven and that I would have a place in heaven. I go to church every Sunday, and I'm a youth leader on Thursday evenings. I help run a safe place for kids to come and get away from rough home situations for an evening. I have many friends at church, and lots of support should I need it. My church does a missions trip every summer to help out people who are less fortunate. Sometimes its building a home for a family in mexico that doesn't have one, or its something as simple as going to serve soup at a homeless shelter. Sometimes there is strife between different members of the church over small church politics stuff, but thats to happen with any community. But all in all, we keep to ourselves and don't interfere with other people. Now tell me what is pointless about this. Are you to say that we are better off to just tear down this church and build some houses in its place? All of us who have become friends under a common cause should just disband? I really don't think there is anything pointless about religion. Many of our criminal laws are based off of religious morals set forth by past religions. Our system of politics have things in them that were based off of religion. Many people who hit rock bottom, and end up on the streets, are saved by religion because they found love and support in a church when noone else would help them. You can make a general statement saying that religion is pointless and horrible. However, by making such a statement, you are ignoring the more positive, and less pointless aspects of religion as well. Religion isn't just some fanatical pastime that people get roped into. For some people it is a crutch and a way of life. I feel sorry for atheists, because without belief in something beyond themselves, what do they really live for? What can you strive to attain?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

I feel sorry for atheists, because without belief in something beyond themselves, what do they really live for? What can you strive to attain?

Understanding and self-realization, you arrogant prick. Betterment through oneself, not a fantasy man who forgives my mistakes if I ask nicely. What do we have to live for? Where the fuck do you get off? Only a belief in god can provide meaning? How hollow and empty is your life that this is true?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Smel, do you believe that the only aim of religion is to center yourself with the gifts and favors of God? If so, I can see why you think atheism is empty.

Additionally, if that's the way you do it, may I suggest joining a monastary?

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Originally Posted by Capo

You're simply turning atheism into a religion. Even the word "atheism" reflects this. Just live your life the way you see fit, but, please, don't infringe upon the rights of others. Religion would be fine with me were it not for people constantly using it as justification to further their respective agendas.

Like Christians and Jews have never done the same damn thing.

Ok, you're wrong again by even comparing atheism to a religion. We atheists don't believe in a god or gods, therefore, we are NOT a religion. That argument needs work my friend.

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

Previous statements indicate otherwise.

Have you ever heard of satire?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Atheism is a belief structure. I wouldn't call it a religion, but its certainly a belief structure on par with religions with its ability to produce radical idiots who make the moderates look bad.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

My church does a missions trip every summer to help out people who are less fortunate. Sometimes its building a home for a family in mexico that doesn't have one, or its something as simple as going to serve soup at a homeless shelter.

Does that make you feel good about yourself? Or does it just make you feel high and mighty for helping the people that aren't as good as you? By the way, don't missionaries try to convert people?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Sometimes there is strife between different members of the church over small church politics stuff, but thats to happen with any community. But all in all, we keep to ourselves and don't interfere with other people. Now tell me what is pointless about this.

Wait wait wait, so sending missionaries down to mexico is keeping to yourself?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Are you to say that we are better off to just tear down this church and build some houses in its place? All of us who have become friends under a common cause should just disband?

I'm not saying tear own the churches. We could use them to be warning to other about the evils of religion. And your pack of friends wouldn't have to disband, where did that even come from?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

I really don't think there is anything pointless about religion. Many of our criminal laws are based off of religious morals set forth by past religions.

No, our criminal laws are based off fucking common sense. You shouldn't steal, kill, etc. If you need religion to tell you that these things are wrong, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Our system of politics have things in them that were based off of religion.

Once again, it's based on COMMON SENSE. I suppose you religious folk have never heard of that though.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Many people who hit rock bottom, and end up on the streets, are saved by religion because they found love and support in a church when noone else would help them.

Yes, and many people who end up on the streets, stay on the streets until they die. Where the fuck was god then?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

You can make a general statement saying that religion is pointless and horrible. However, by making such a statement, you are ignoring the more positive, and less pointless aspects of religion as well.

Needless to say, I do know that religion has positive aspects, but these positive aspects aren't religion exclusive. Just because religion can have some positive aspect does not outweigh the negative parts of it. Some of the people I care about most are religious. That's why it pains me to see them, and any other people, sucked into religion.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Religion isn't just some fanatical pastime that people get roped into. For some people it is a crutch and a way of life.

Yes, religion is VERY fanatical, and people ARE roped into it. Kids don't have a chance to open their mind because their parents are religious, and force it onto their kids. As for religion being a crutch for some people, and a way of life, that is just wrong. Religion should NOT, of all things, be a crutch.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

I feel sorry for atheists, because without belief in something beyond themselves, what do they really live for? What can you strive to attain?

There are so many things wrong with those questions. I think Denicalis said it best:

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Understanding and self-realization, you arrogant prick. Betterment through oneself, not a fantasy man who forgives my mistakes if I ask nicely. What do we have to live for? Where the fuck do you get off? Only a belief in god can provide meaning? How hollow and empty is your life that this is true?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Atheism is a belief structure. I wouldn't call it a religion, but its certainly a belief structure on par with religions with its ability to produce radical idiots who make the moderates look bad.

A moderate atheist? That would be an agnostic.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

Does that make you feel good about yourself? Or does it just make you feel high and mighty for helping the people that aren't as good as you? By the way, don't missionaries try to convert people?

Yes, I do feel good about myself. Or moreover, I feel happy for the family that got the house. They were really happy to have a decent home that wasn't built from pallets to live in. And obviously we didn't interfere.

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Wait wait wait, so sending missionaries down to mexico is keeping to yourself?

Would you rather us sit back home in our church, singing praise and worship songs, and gloating about how much better off our souls our? Have you ever tried to follow religion? How can you judge it simply by accounts of others? Its different for each person.[/quote]

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No, our criminal laws are based off fucking common sense. You shouldn't steal, kill, etc. If you need religion to tell you that these things are wrong, then there is something seriously wrong with you.



Once again, it's based on COMMON SENSE. I suppose you religious folk have never heard of that though.

Actually, its a historical fact that the first laws were based off the 10 commandments, which are indeed common sense. So you're basically saying that some aspects of religion are common sense. So why not follow it?

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Yes, and many people who end up on the streets, stay on the streets until they die. Where the fuck was god then?

Well, God gave people free will. If he just controlled things so that everything worked out for everyone, that would take away our free will. I would think that'd be alot worse than some fanatics taking things out of context.

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Needless to say, I do know that religion has positive aspects, but these positive aspects aren't religion exclusive. Just because religion can have some positive aspect does not outweigh the negative parts of it. Some of the people I care about most are religious. That's why it pains me to see them, and any other people, sucked into religion.

So basically, you cry yourself to sleep at night because some of your friends decided that they would be happy if they followed a religion? As long as they aren't being fanatical about converting other people, and as long as they aren't blowing up buildings because they say that their God told them to do it, what is so wrong? Do they seem happier to you? Do they seem like their life is horrible because they decided to follow religion? I say don't worry about it. Religion isn't for everyone. But it is for some.

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Yes, religion is VERY fanatical, and people ARE roped into it. Kids don't have a chance to open their mind because their parents are religious, and force it onto their kids. As for religion being a crutch for some people, and a way of life, that is just wrong. Religion should NOT, of all things, be a crutch.

I agree. Kids shouldn't be forced into religion. Religion shouldn't be about following rules, and only doing certain things. And although religion shouldn't be used as a crutch, often times it is. But like having a broken leg, eventually you don't need crutches anymore, but its still nice to have them handy incase you break your leg again or something. I used church as my crutch way back when. Helped me out of a shitty time in my life. Now, I find that whenever I'm hitting rough times, I can consult the bible for advice. Obviously its not for everyone though.

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A moderate atheist? That would be an agnostic.

Just my personal opinion, I prefer agnostics as opposed to atheists. At least agnostics are willing to admit that religion does have a place somewhere. Be that as it may. Religion works for me. I don't see religion as a bad thing. GameInfarcer, I really don't understand where your coming from, and so understandably, I'm finding it hard to see things from your point of view. Also, that last post of mine seemed kinda dumb. I was sort of ranting, and then hit the submit button. Sorry if it seemed a bit offensive.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

A moderate atheist? That would be an agnostic.

I'm pretty sure he meant "moderate" in a "won't shove their beliefs onto others like an asshole" kind of way.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LZ

I'm pretty sure he meant "moderate" in a "won't shove their beliefs onto others like an asshole" kind of way.

Bingo. But thanks for proving a point for me, infarcer.

How ya doing, buddy?

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To answer your second question, I wouldn't want to play thought police. Religion is already doing that. I want to stop the thought policing if you will.

You basically end up swapping one form of social control for another, though. You will end up becoming that which you hate.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

Ok, you're wrong again by even comparing atheism to a religion. We atheists don't believe in a god or gods, therefore, we are NOT a religion. That argument needs work my friend.

As Deni said, it's the same basic idea. The way you used the phrase, "we atheists" only serves to demonstrate my point.

And don't get so defensive. We're trying to have a civil discussion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

No, having a belief structure has nothing to do with being a religion. Besides, he was just trying to make a witty comment, not an actual point. Good one, btw. It was very funny.

How ya doing, buddy?

What is religion if not a structure of beliefs?

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Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

No, having a belief structure has nothing to do with being a religion. Besides, he was just trying to make a witty comment, not an actual point. Good one, btw. It was very funny.

Having a belief structure is completely what religion is about. Anyone who follows religion obviously chooses what they based on what they believe. Atheists also have a set of belief, and those beliefs also are what they base their actions on. If religion has nothing to do with a structure of beliefs, what then does it have to do with?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Religion, has to do with believing in a god. having a belief structure is nothing special.

FELIPE NO

As far as I'm concerned, you don't have to be a part of any religion to believe in God. All religion is, is a set of beliefs and customs and traditions. Having a relationship with God is called spirituality.

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re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

The dictionary even confirms that religion is a set of beliefs. Atheists have a set of beliefs. So doesn't that make them a religion too?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

You're missing the point here: Whether or not your structure of beliefs centers around a god, absence of a god, or a fucking flying spaghetti monster is inconsequential. It's that these structures of belief foster a group superiority, and this applies to both Christianity and Atheism.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

No. you guys have the worst arguments. Just because something has a set of beliefs, doesn't mean it's a religion. That's just ridiculous to say. That's like saying just because something has a set of wings, it's a bird. There is more to it than just a set of beliefs. Atheists are far from religion.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Then why group them together in such a group? Why try to prove anyone anything?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Capo

You're missing the point here: Whether or not your structure of beliefs centers around a god, absence of a god, or a fucking flying spaghetti monster is inconsequential. It's that these structures of belief foster a group superiority, and this applies to both Christianity and Atheism.

That wasn't your point. You were saying that Atheism is a religion. Yes it's true that some belief structures foster group superiority, but that doesn't make them religions.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It makes them just as good as religions, which is what I've been trying to get across to you for the past few hours.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

No. you guys have the worst arguments. Just because something has a set of beliefs, doesn't mean it's a religion. That's just ridiculous to say. That's like saying just because something has a set of wings, it's a bird. There is more to it than just a set of beliefs. Atheists are far from religion.

You say that atheism is far from religion? For what reasons? You're making a pretty general statement.

Society's definition of a religion is that it is a set of beliefs. Atheists have a set of beliefs. They have a common belief that there is no higher power and that religion is phoney baloney. I would say that is some common beliefs.

Christianity has a common belief that God created the world and that the bible is a set of guidelines explaining how to live your life so as to please God.

Christianity is considered a religion, and they are a group of people coming together under a common set of beliefs. Atheists are a group of people coming together under a common set of beliefs. So wouldn't you agree that this goes to show that Atheism is also .. oh my! whats that word? a RELIGION!

Lets see you make some points that are a little more specific. Or at least back your points up with some reasoning.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Society's definition of a religion is that it is a set of beliefs.

No. It's not. Technically there is no definition of religion. But ALL religion has to do with belief in god(s). You can't tell me that's not part of religion.

Originally Posted by Capo

It makes them just as good as religions, which is what I've been trying to get across to you for the past few hours.

No, not at all really. Group superiority isn't the worst thing about religion.

FELIPE NO

Then what is?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?