[Movie] Heroes

Originally Posted by Skexis

And personally I think a wild card like Ted (Who is interesting because after the death of his wife it's obvious HE is the one spiraling into evil) is a WHOLE lot more compelling as an antagonist for the show and a way to drive the action forward than predictable self-pity machine Pete.

Please, to say that Ted is evil would be like saying Frank Castle is evil. It'd be like saying Hiro is evil for even using his power for -some- self gain, like that whole spider-man issue when he was in vegas using his powers to gamble.

Ted has a purpose...he wants his power gone and he is willing to go to any lengths to get answers. He's out for revenge, though, his anger is clouding a lot of his thoughts and judgements. I haven't seen him kill someone voluntarily as of yet...same with Peter.

Remember, Anger doesn't automatically = evil...Fuck Star Wars for even putting that in there.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Have you forgotten that Ted wanted to take hostages in the first place? That he pulled the trigger in his head?
He has nothing left to live for, and he's ready to endanger innocents in order to get what he wants, whether that is what he ultimately needs or not.

I'd say if anyone other than Sylar is in danger of being evil, it has to be Ted.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Skexis

I never said it was a continuity problem, but it's a creative decision that I didn't appreciate simply because Peter is being made into the kind of Superman for the show. I liked it better when it seemed like the Heroes would have to unite to defeat the forces of evil, more like a justice league approach.

Now you are just asking for a huge injection of cheese. So many shows and movies have tried the whole lets gang together to defeat evil, and have failed, its much better when theres a couple of main characters and the rest of the team work in the background or go on their own path. Look at xmen 2 and 3 and the recent smallville justice league episode, im still left with a bitter taste in my mouth from that episode.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Skexis

Have you forgotten that Ted wanted to take hostages in the first place? That he pulled the trigger in his head?
He has nothing left to live for, and he's ready to endanger innocents in order to get what he wants, whether that is what he ultimately needs or not.

I'd say if anyone other than Sylar is in danger of being evil, it has to be Ted.

So what you're saying is that sure, Ted was going to go postal...but that was because he wanted whatever what was done to him to be cured...so he didn't kill anyone accidently like he did his wife.

Ted saw Bennet as evil, and well, Ted was going to go to extreme lengths to get what he needed, an answer, to know that he wasn't going to be killing everyone around him....and if he needed to kill a few innocent people in the process, so be it.

So what would be more evil? Ted doing nothing and letting people die all around him, or forcing answers and hopefully gaining a cure in any way possible?

Is Issac evil for wanting to kill Peter? Is he evil for accidently killing Simone? I don't think so...he just wants no one to get hurt, and will do what it takes to stop it. Sure, it borders on obssessive, but hey, everyone has their kick :P

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Grail

Ted was going to go to extreme lengths to get what he needed, an answer, to know that he wasn't going to be killing everyone around him....and if he needed to kill a few innocent people in the process, so be it.

The only thing stopping Ted from going nuclear is Ted. He has obviously been practicing(!) using his powers and can command them, up to a point. (Like getting shot, for example.)

You're giving me a "ends justifies the means" argument for all of this, and if you've ever seen any superhero that isn't the Punisher, you know that doesn't fly well.

To answer your question, yes, I would say Isaac definitely slipped off the rung when he started shooting at Peter. Peter hadn't done anything, and Isaac as much as admitted that the whole reason he had done what he had done was to get back at Peter for "stealing" his girlfriend. If you think his behavior was selfless then you're not paying nearly enough attention.

Originally Posted by The Furious One

Now you are just asking for a huge injection of cheese. So many shows and movies have tried the whole lets gang together to defeat evil, and have failed, its much better when theres a couple of main characters and the rest of the team work in the background or go on their own path. Look at xmen 2 and 3 and the recent smallville justice league episode, im still left with a bitter taste in my mouth from that episode.

Look, I'm not saying they should become the justice league. You've seen this show before. You know it isn't the X-Men movie or Smallville (ugh). So far, it's taken a much more realistic approach to the notion of a superhero.

Which is why I dislike the idea of a singular, all-powerful superhero like they're trying to make Peter out to be. I'd much rather see how the heroes interact with one another. That doesn't mean every episode is a snuggle fest, Isaac case-in-point. Heroes can remain heroes and still have spats with one another, or have a falling out, or even have a crisis of conscience or faith.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I dont really mind if Peter powers the uber hero, as long as the writters dont focus fully on him and let everyone else story go to shit, then it fine by me.
Like i said earlier, Heores has several characters each can be seen as main characters (just peter happens to be the centre of it at the moment).

FELIPE NO

At some point everyone is going to have to get together, although if everyone is on the same side is another question. I see everything building up to some grand meeting at season's end with some sort of cliffhanger finale.

In any case, the show has been very good in changing the character focus from episode to episode, so no one person has really been taking *too* much of the spotlight for the whole series. But, again, for purposes of have some sort of story resolution by the end of the season, some characters will have to take a bit more time from the others I feel.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't see Peter as having that much power, really. He's one of a few characters who have far more potential for exploiting their mutations, but he's obviously not especially formidable at this point because he's all caught up on himself. I'd say the Mystique-shapeshifter lady can probably get almost anything done by exploiting the relationships of other "heroes." She seems a little too powerful to me, but something holds her back from flat out ruling the world. Sylar is obviously capable of incredible power, but he's distracted by his super-munchies. Anyway, the point was that Peter isn't really all that singularly powerful when you take into consideration that this isn't some kind of massive mutant death match. I would like to see that towards the series finale, perhaps, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think the power dynamics between the characters can be determined merely by the usefulness of their mutations. What each character amounts to is controlled more by their psychological troubles and social issues, since it's a serialized TV drama and not Battle Royale. Hell, even in that story the ones with the bigger guns didn't necessarily have more power.

Originally Posted by Rollins

At some point everyone is going to have to get together. . . .

IN BED!

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm not so sure that woman is a "shapeshifter". When the police showed up at Isaac's apartment, she altered the surroundings to make it appear as though Simone was still alive. If she were strictly a shapeshifter, a la Mystique, she never could've done that.

Her true power is more likely to be casting illusions, or altering the mind's eye perceptions in others. This is pretty powerful, but it would prevent her from being able to forge fingerprints and retinal scans like Mystique often does.

As for Peter, he has every tool necessary to escape Sylar at his disposal, tools that Sylar mostly lacks. Peter can use flight, invisibility, regeneration, telepathy and time-stopping in addition to the telekinesis that Sylar possesses. Plus, Peter could unexpectedly use Sylar's newer talents, such as heightened hearing and destabilization of metals. Sylar, for all his power, lacks the tools at Peter's disposal.

Also, if Sylar were to acquire Peter's gift, then it would effectively stop his need to kill other gifted people. Why kill them when simple proximity is enough to gain their powers? This would be a plot killer and without a villainous motivation, Sylar's character ceases to be as interesting. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that Sylar will succeed in dissecting Peter's brain.

On the other hand, this would be a hell of a time for Mohinder to suddenly manifest powers. The question was never answered: Is Mohinder on the list? Mohinder's sister, Shanti, was apparently gifted and we've seen that these talents definitely run along familial lines. Sylar has never seen the actual list, so he likely hasn't made this connection. If Mohinder has latent powers, Sylar wouldn't really know to look for them.


Also, total jeers to Ando suddenly appearing in Linderman's casino. How in the hell did he manage to get a job there, let alone a job with such high security clearance? No, that entire solution was poorly contrived and reeks of deus ex machina. Ando was sent home. There should've been a better way for Hiro to get the sword than divine intervention.

(Cheers for Ian Gomez getting a cameo as the curator. I enjoyed him as a co-worker on The Drew Carey Show.)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

I'm not so sure that woman is a "shapeshifter". When the police showed up at Isaac's apartment, she altered the surroundings to make it appear as though Simone was still alive. If she were strictly a shapeshifter, a la Mystique, she never could've done that.

Her true power is more likely to be casting illusions, or altering the mind's eye perceptions in others. This is pretty powerful, but it would prevent her from being able to forge fingerprints and retinal scans like Mystique often does.

I saw the actress that plays Candice do an interview thingy on Attack of the Show, she called her a "manipulator of reality." I dunno how much people trust the actors on their thoughts on those things, but yeah you're right, it's definitely illusion as opposed to shapeshifting.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by kupomog

I saw the actress that plays Candice do an interview thingy on Attack of the Show, she called her a "manipulator of reality." I dunno how much people trust the actors on their thoughts on those things, but yeah you're right, it's definitely illusion as opposed to shapeshifting.

For the nerdy, canon explanation of things (illusion rather than shapeshifting), if you picked up on it, when she was appearing to Isaac as Simone, Simone's body is no longer visible on the bed. Then, when she drops the illusion, Simone's body reappears as well.

>_> I just watched it once, is all.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Rollins

For the nerdy, canon explanation of things (illusion rather than shapeshifting), if you picked up on it, when she was appearing to Isaac as Simone, Simone's body is no longer visible on the bed. Then, when she drops the illusion, Simone's body reappears as well.

>_> I just watched it once, is all.

Yeah, I picked up on that as well, which is how I was able to discern her ability as being more illusory than morphic in nature. If she were a shapeshifter, why would the air and everything around her fuzz out when she changed?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

Also, total jeers to Ando suddenly appearing in Linderman's casino. How in the hell did he manage to get a job there, let alone a job with such high security clearance? No, that entire solution was poorly contrived and reeks of deus ex machina. Ando was sent home. There should've been a better way for Hiro to get the sword than divine intervention.

I assumed Ando simply knocked out a security guard and stole his uniform, since it obviously would have been impossible to get a job like that on such short notice. He said he'd been following Hiro all that time, and Hiro's already been shown to be clumsy with alarms. This way Ando also proved himself capable of being Hiro's partner despite his lack of powers. It did seem a little sudden, but not unlikely enough to be called divine intervention.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

On the other hand, this would be a hell of a time for Mohinder to suddenly manifest powers. The question was never answered: Is Mohinder on the list? Mohinder's sister, Shanti, was apparently gifted and we've seen that these talents definitely run along familial lines. Sylar has never seen the actual list, so he likely hasn't made this connection. If Mohinder has latent powers, Sylar wouldn't really know to look for them.


Also, total jeers to Ando suddenly appearing in Linderman's casino. How in the hell did he manage to get a job there, let alone a job with such high security clearance? No, that entire solution was poorly contrived and reeks of deus ex machina. Ando was sent home. There should've been a better way for Hiro to get the sword than divine intervention.

Sylar knew about Shanti, though. He said Suresh trusted him telling him about that. And I think that if Mohinder was on the list, Suresh might have taken him off of it when he realized what Sylar was doing. Still, it would be awesome if Mohinder suddenly manifested powers.

I'll jeer with you on Ando's deus ex machina role, but it wouldn't be hard for him to be in that position - he could be a low-level guard, but when that button was pushed it apparently called all of the security. Right? So even the low-level clearance guys would have the alert. It's just fishy that he got there first, and long enough before everyone else that they could barricade the door.

I'm fairly certain that the New York blowing up bit is more complex than we're thinking. There are too many unknown variables - if Peter has more control over his powers now, why blow up? Could be to get rid of Sylar - sacrificing others' lives in order to put down one that threatens even more. We're not even positive Peter's doing the exploding, are we? We assume because a painting of a nondescript person and Peter's vision of the future that he's the cause, but we don't know where the vision of the future ability came from, do we? Maybe I just missed some major aspect of the plot or something, but it seems like there's more going on than we're giving credit for. And if Peter's vision of the future is accurate beyond just being symbolic, why is Simone there (unless reality-altering-lady is there, but then why is Isaac with her?) and why would Nathan just go up to his soon-to-explode brother? It seems like Peter's vision is more telling of the fact that he had to gain control of his powers rather than giving an accurate portrayal of the inevitable outcome of ongoing events.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

If she were a shapeshifter, why would the air and everything around her fuzz out when she changed?

Because they spent all their special effects budget on Ted's meltdown last episode.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

lollin'. =D

best. explanation. yet.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Spoiler:

I hope Peter is dead. He kinda sucked of late. It would be cool if Sylar was dead, too, maybe they kind of killed each other

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, I probably would have noticed the non-shapeshifting too if I hadn't been trying to play Rogue Galaxy during the commercial breaks. Either way, that's a powerful ability since she can pretty much get anyone else to help her do anything she wants by pretending to be a desperate friend or family member and stuff like that. It's good to know she's not a complete Mystique rip-off, though.

I really don't want Peter or Sylar to die any time soon because they're pretty.

How ya doing, buddy?

peter theoretically can't die, can he?

unless:

Spoiler:

Just as what happened with claire, when the stick was sticking out of her head, could happen to peter long enough to have it completely removed.

but i don't see peter dying at all.


on a side note

Originally Posted by Jochie

...if I hadn't been trying to play Rogue Galaxy during the commercial breaks.

as do [did] i.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, we haven't seen Sylar get to work on someone with the healing ability just yet (we'll have to wait for that). I'd figure if your body could regenerate, so would your brain, so I think Peter would be ok in the end.

I would also see Sylar getting all of Peter's powers, which is quite a bit. He was already having trouble controlling just one power at a time, imagine how he would handle getting a truckload of them. (boom?)

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Jochie

I really don't want Peter or Sylar to die any time soon because they're pretty.

How is Sylar any pretty. He looks like a total dork.

Spoiler:

I don't think that Peter dies, either. I mean, so far, he's always been capable to have the same abilities as the ones surrounding him. So since Sylar cannot die, Peter shouldn't be able to die, either.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You know, Sylar is starting to become one of my favorite characters on the show, as odd as that sounds. The actor plays him so well...so sadistic and psychotic and the actor is great at portraying it.

It's weird, he kinda seems the same creepy way in interviews too...well all the more power to him.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Musharraf

How is Sylar any pretty. He looks like a total dork.

This is a dork:



This is pretty:



What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Jochie's crushing on Sylar.

How cute. ^__^

Jam it back in, in the dark.

My mom wants to do bad things to Mohinder -_-

At that point in time I wanted to /life

There's nowhere I can't reach.