[Manga] Another Superhero gets "killed"

SPOILER WARNING: Don't click on the link unless you want to know:

Spoiler:

http://tinyurl.com/2cu83y

To generate some general discussion, this isn't the first time a superhero has been "killed". Note that I put that word in quotes, because in comics, the death of a character never seems to be permanent, and if the character was popular enough, the publishers will figure out some way to bring them back to life (Superman probably being the best example of this).

Spoiler:

Heck, although this isn't entirely related, I remember how pissed off fans were when Optimus Prime died in the 1985 Transformers movie, so much so that they had to bring him back to life later on. And as a result of the outrage, they didn't kill off Duke in the GI Joe movie, and rather he just goes into a coma.

Do you think by "killing" off a character, the character's image is being hurt or helped? What about if they later get brought back to life? And don't say it won't happen, comic book characters never really disappear (the sole exceptions being because they're not a popular character, and/or their comic isn't selling well).

Of course, I'm not a hardcore comics reader. I know enough about most superheroes and their backstory, but if I'm wrong here, do you know of any major characters that were really killed off and never brought back?

Use spoiler tags if you do have an answer, so that you don't ruin it for other people. type spoiler in between brackets [ and ] (they're above the Enter key and slightly to the left), and when you're done, type /spoiler in brackets behind the last word.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I dunno if it applies to the entire Batman Comicss but....

Spoiler:

According to the Batgirl: Cassandra Cain series the secon Robin was killed by the Joker.

I am also not a hardcore comic reader. I just read whatever I can afford. Or whats on sale. You can get lucky sometimes.

One thing I can say for sure with all these killed-then-suddenly-revived heroes. It confuses the hell out of me. Also not to mention the what ifs..

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Personaly, it's just the full stop to that horrid series.

(Runaways spoiler

Spoiler:

Iron Man showing up conveniantly just after the runaways deal with those giants is the big giant MGS Sounded Exclamation Point

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

you know just above this is a comic subforum where you could post this

Personally i think it's great he got killed, i didnt like him one bit.

no homo

Originally Posted by Gecko3

Of course, I'm not a hardcore comics reader. I know enough about most superheroes and their backstory, but if I'm wrong here, do you know of any major characters that were really killed off and never brought back?

Spoiler:

Last I heard, they killed off Jean Grey quite awhile ago and Cyclops is sleeping with Emma Frost now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Doesn't mean shit. There's been 20 Robins and 40 The Flashes, it's just a ploy to get people to buy more comics.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by kuttlas

Doesn't mean shit. There's been 20 Robins and 40 The Flashes, it's just a ploy to get people to buy more comics.

Those are both DC characters. We're talking about a marvel character.

FELIPE NO

Oh wow, I just heard about this on the radio a couple hours and went to pick up the issue (just released this week, heh, I can't wait to reap the benefits of this investment). Man, that's was quite a surprise. I'm surprised that it's even getting media attention outside of the internet (which I'm sure everyone will know who it is by the end of the today, if not the week).

Spoiler:

But yea, man Captain America getting killed like that? Seems rather anti-climatical to the whole Civil War event. Though, I'm sure there'll be a revival of the character in a few years or so (no doubt it'll happen when a Capt. America movie is announced, if not sooner). Hell, it could be just apart of the story arc, as the issue says part one. Just like how they're reviving Thor.

Anyway, a character with this big of a name in comics, I've no doubt they'll be revived. Just a matter of time. And with the timing they chose for the character to go down, I think it'll probably help the character's image more than it'll hurt it (heh, as company is only going to get more sales).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

You know, for the longest time I was comforted by the fact that no matter how many times someone died and then "Oh wait it was a clone" or "Oh well he was healed by ancient chinese monks" etc., that some character just STAYED. DEAD.

Then, they revived Bucky.

So I don't care if they 'killed' Captain America, because its inevitable that he will return. In fact the only way that Marvel could make his death mean something, and the ideals he stands for, is to KEEP him dead, and play off everyone's expectation that he's only "semi-dead". Marvel doesn't have the balls to do that, just like how everyone is going to magically forget that Peter Parker is Spider-man in 2 years.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

This is racism. America can't die!

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Drat. This thread spoiled me. Why did I expand those infernal spoiler boxes

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

i for one think that the killing of a superhero hurts the image.

but reading further in that article [yesterday] i noticed something very funny.

"
The character's death came as a blow to co-creator Simon, the Associated Press reported.

"We really need him now," Simon, 93, told The AP.

"

hah.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Gecko3

SPOILER WARNING: Don't click on the link unless you want to know:

Spoiler:

http://tinyurl.com/2cu83y

To generate some general discussion, this isn't the first time a superhero has been "killed". Note that I put that word in quotes, because in comics, the death of a character never seems to be permanent, and if the character was popular enough, the publishers will figure out some way to bring them back to life (Superman probably being the best example of this).

Spoiler:

Heck, although this isn't entirely related, I remember how pissed off fans were when Optimus Prime died in the 1985 Transformers movie, so much so that they had to bring him back to life later on. And as a result of the outrage, they didn't kill off Duke in the GI Joe movie, and rather he just goes into a coma.

Do you think by "killing" off a character, the character's image is being hurt or helped? What about if they later get brought back to life? And don't say it won't happen, comic book characters never really disappear (the sole exceptions being because they're not a popular character, and/or their comic isn't selling well).

Of course, I'm not a hardcore comics reader. I know enough about most superheroes and their backstory, but if I'm wrong here, do you know of any major characters that were really killed off and never brought back?

Use spoiler tags if you do have an answer, so that you don't ruin it for other people. type spoiler in between brackets [ and ] (they're above the Enter key and slightly to the left), and when you're done, type /spoiler in brackets behind the last word.

Only in rare cases do characters remain dead. I think of a fair number of supporting characters, a few villains, and even a few heroes (though probably none of them well-known) that have been dead for a few years. But even if the characters die, different versions of them persist (clones, alternate reality dopplegangers, etc.). A few, such as Barry Allen, are taken out of time before their deaths for at least one story and then returned afterward.

Originally Posted by Minoko

I dunno if it applies to the entire Batman Comicss but....

Spoiler:

According to the Batgirl: Cassandra Cain series the secon Robin was killed by the Joker.

I am also not a hardcore comic reader. I just read whatever I can afford. Or whats on sale. You can get lucky sometimes.

One thing I can say for sure with all these killed-then-suddenly-revived heroes. It confuses the hell out of me. Also not to mention the what ifs..

[spoiler]He has recently returned to the land of the living under the title "Red Hood" and briefly worked alongside Dick Grayson as another Nightwing. Somewhere over the next year, he will become Red Robin. The fourth Robin, Stephanie Brown a.k.a. Spoiler, died a few years ago and remains dead.[/spoil]

I don't mind killed-then-suddenly-revived characters as much. To me, that means the death served a purpose within the overall story and that the return was equally as important. The writer's intent was to bring them back all along. Such stories have been told outside the comic book medium.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

Spoiler:

Last I heard, they killed off Jean Grey quite awhile ago and Cyclops is sleeping with Emma Frost now.

Spoiler:

Jean Grey is not currently dead. She is currently outside of space-time, in a reality nexus. But, yes, Cyclops and Emma Frost are a couple, despite the stuff she's done to him.

Originally Posted by kuttlas

Doesn't mean shit. There's been 20 Robins and 40 The Flashes, it's just a ploy to get people to buy more comics.

This death is like the Death of Superman in this regard. Now that people know a major character has died, they will rush out to various stores to get the issue, if only for it's potential future value.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

Those are both DC characters. We're talking about a marvel character.

The name of the company doesn't change anything but the names.

Originally Posted by Hantei

Oh wow, I just heard about this on the radio a couple hours and went to pick up the issue (just released this week, heh, I can't wait to reap the benefits of this investment).

I was spoiled by various media. I imagine I would've felt different reading the story if I hadn't known the ending ahead of time. I know it's a fairly big event and all, but they should've shown some courtesy.

My thoughts on the death itself? Utterly meaningless. The character will return. It might take a few months, maybe even a year, but the return will come. I think this, and the Civil War leading to it, ruined the writer's intent for the title in which this death takes place. I am reminded of Nightwing and how Devin Grayson had a different story set, but was forced to change things due to Infinite Crisis. When Infinite Crisis failed to kill Nightwing as originally intended, Bruce Jones had to modify his story, which ended up beigng crappy.

This issue is nothing more than Marvel's version of the "Death of Superman". A major character dies, only to come back months afterward, mostly for the sake of money. Even occasional readers will come out of the woodwork to find this story.

But why didn't this occur in the Civil War event itself (as many seemed to want it end)? Was it because people complained about Spider-Man's unveiling not being done in his own mag first? Was it done in order to boost the sales of a different comic? (Civil War has been quite successful at selling copies of itself.)

I don't know the answers. But I despise Marvel for pulling what is akin to a cheap parlor trick.

I was speaking idiomatically.

He'll be back by the end of the story arc. Either that or Bucky will take up the mantle.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

They briefly touched upon this in Civil War: Initiative. It seems you shouldn't write off the man yet.

FELIPE NO

Firstly, I had no idea that this was about to happen. I went and picked my books up Wednesday morning and everyone at the store was telling me to read the new issue of Cap. Since it's on my list anyway, it was already in my pulled books, so I took it home and read through it before anything else.

Spoiler:

Let me tell you something, the death was not meaningless in the least if you were reading Cap up to and through Civil War..the Red freakin Skull's been in the background the entire time putting this massive plan together, and he finally bested the great american hero. This sickest part of the whole thing, was that, while the first bullet came from a sniper, the second through sixth bullets came from Cap's girlfriend. Out of all my books in the passed two weeks, this was probably the best of the bunch.

I've no doubts that they'll bring him back, but so far, there are already two confirmed people that'll be taking up the Captain American mantle while Steve is down and out. The most obvious being The Winter Soldier, aka Bucky. The second, Frank Castle, aka The Punisher. That alone will keep me reading both Cap and Punisher: War Journal.

Just my two cents.

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There's also a third person you haven't considered, and that is Nick Fury. Wasn't he also a recipient of the Super Soldier Serum? And he's been in "hiding" for a lot of the Civil War thing. I can see him coming back under the Captain America mantle now that Shield isn't his. The question then becomes will he change the mantle to suit him, or will the mantle of Captain America change his views to be more in line with the man that died is it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

They won't kill off Captain America. Marvel wouldn't have the ball to do that. They will, most likely, re-vamp Capt. America with a "darker, grittier" image. Wasn't Bucky dead for about 40 years and I hear that now he is back? Pathetic. I used to be a hard-core comic fan. I mean, I was the biggest comic book geek in my school; but story lines like this disgust me. It was the whole "Spider-man is really a clone" story line that ended my romance with the comic book.

How ya doing, buddy?

HightopNinja... try marking your spoilers like this:

Regarding Civil War: Initiative

Spoiler:

They reveal that Cap is not dead. Wow, I'm shocked to hear that!

And why is this still not in the Comic Book Subforum? ...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

What a bunch of commie pinko liberal bullshit. DA GUBBAMINT IS KILLING AMERIKKKA

Maybe the next time Marvel wants to kill off a character to make ham-fisted political statements, they won't. I told you all that Civil War was retarded.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

What a bunch of commie pinko liberal bullshit. DA GUBBAMINT IS KILLING AMERIKKKA

Maybe the next time Marvel wants to kill off a character to make ham-fisted political statements, they won't. I told you all that Civil War was retarded.

I agree, Civil War was fucking awful. I said it from the beginning, and I'll say it again. Also, aren't you a commie pinko libertarian?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yeah, but I'm not about to subvert cultural icons into doing something out-of-character to push an agenda.

The most hilarious thing about all this is that they cite 9/11 and the Patriot Act as political inspiration for the Civil War split, but a superhero registry is more akin to gun control.

They can't even provide a consistant message, so the end result is a dumb one. The only one. The government is killing America = Captain America.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yeah, this whole run has been pretty goddamn shoddy. I fully agree.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I told you all that Civil War was retarded.

I thought it was decent, if crappily paced. Then the climax to this piece of shit is that Captain America goes "oops time to be arrested" and the fighting suddenly stops. Then he gets quizzed on Internet shit to determine the validity of his arguments. I reread everything and realized that Civil War is just a tumor filled with every dumb idea Marvel came up with and the overarching debate was already overdone by X-Men for forty years.

I hate Civil War.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I read the first two issues of Civil War and stopped because I couldn't stand how bad it is.

I just read the Capt. America Epilogue, and however anyone feels about the character or whether or not the character is truly dead doesn't stop me from thinking this is an incredibly shitty way to kill the guy.

I also just read The Confession, to which I reply: Fuck you, Iron Man.

Jam it back in, in the dark.