Muslim girl kicked off soccer team for not removing hijab

From CTV.CA

Quote:

The decision by a Muslim soccer referee to order a Muslim soccer-playing girl to take of her headscarf has triggered yet another controversy in Quebec's ongoing debate on accommodating minorities.

Given that a provincial election is going on, the politicians waded in.

On Monday, Quebec Premier Jean Charest defended the referee's actions in the weekend tournament.

"One of the practices around soccer is not only the sport itself on the field, but also the behaviour of the players and how they're expected to behave towards each other and the rules around how they are dressed," Charest said.

"My understanding is that the referee applied the rules of the soccer federation and that's why that decision was made," he said.

Charest said he played soccer as a boy and recalled a referee telling players to tuck their shirts into their shorts.

"It's a case of safety in sports," said Mario Dumont, leader of the Action democratique du Quebec.

Asmahan Mansour, 11, of an Ottawa-area team was ejected from the game for running afoul of the Quebec Soccer Association rule.

The referee first addressed the issue when Mansour, who was not in the starting line-up, substituted for another player.

"It was my turn on the field, and as soon as I went on the field, the referee pointed at me and said get off the field," she told CTV Montreal.

He made a gesture that she should remove her hijab, and then pointed to the bench. The referee said she could not play for the under-12 team as her headscarf posed a danger to other players.

Her coach, Louis Maneiro forfeited the game and pulled the team from the tournament in protest.

Five other Ottawa-area teams followed suit, four of them affiliated with the Nepean Hotspurs but in other age groups.

Maneiro has said he is interested in hearing what the Canadian Soccer Association, which is looking into the incident, has to say about the matter.

Parents of players on the team, the Nepean Hotspur Selects, have argued that Mansour played in other games during the tournament, in Laval, Que., without complaint from other officials

The rules
The guidelines of Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA), soccer's international body, do stipulate that a player can't wear anything that can be dangerous to any player.

Valmie Ouellet of the Quebec Soccer Federation said the uniform, shinguards and shoes are all that are allowed under the rules.

But international FIFA rules do not specify anything about wearing hijabs, or any religious headgear.

"It definitely isn't a safety issue. It's just a piece of cloth that's on her head, and the way she was wearing it, it was tucked in her shirt ...," said Maria Mansour, Asmahan's mother.

The broader subject of reasonable accommodation has been in the news in Quebec after the town of Herouxville, comprising 1,300 mostly white, French-speaking residents, adopted a code of standards for immigrants.

The code stipulated that: Women should be able to show their faces in public and should also be permitted to drive and write cheques. And it is "completely outside norms to... kill women by stoning them in public, burning them alive, burning them with acid, circumcising them etc."

The resolution has no legal weight but is the code by which the town expects its residents to abide.

Earlier this month, the town council changed some of the wording in its controversial code of conduct, including the removal of the phrase "stoning of women."

I can understand the argument from both sides. We all know that safety somes first, but the girl was able to play in other games without having to remove her hijab, and it did not prove to be a saftey hazard because it was was not loose, it has to be tied on tight so that is will not fall off while she as running.

What do you all think, was the referee doing the right thing?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Hey, Teacher, Leave those Hijabs alone!

I think the Hijab is a good thing, the parents will ALWAYS know where there child is on the field during the game.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I've never played soccer and watch it infrequently at best, but I cannot see how her hijab could cause harm to anyone. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It's just tragic that a child has to experience exclusion from ordinary societal function because of a belief system which they have no self-determination in.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

She wasn't kicked off the team -- her teammates and coach stood by her and they forfeited the game together.

It was a horrible decision by the referee, who kicked her off the field. Her hijab -- a light fabric -- was tucked into her neckline of the shirt, and posed absolutely no danger to other players or to herself.

She had also played in previous games of the tournament with no problems, and none of the previous referees had any issues with the hijab.

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, like a hijab would be such a safety threat to others.
"The bright colours distracted me!" *BAM!*
Honestly...wow.

How ya doing, buddy?

I can kind of understand the whole safety angle. Now, if the picture above is accurate, it looks like it's wrapped pretty tight. As long as it stays like that, it's not bothering anyone. Still, I imagine if it somehow came loose, with all the running around and such, she would have a hard time seeing. And if you can't see, you can't see where you're putting your cleats. That's just a guess though... it may just fall off harmlessly if it came undone.

The other side seems pretty silly though. I'm sure it has some religious significance (which I couldn't possibly care less about), but even so, it sounds like she was the only girl on her team wearing one of them. Seems to me like it's not vitally important if all the other girls left theirs in mom's minivan. It's a hat, for crying out loud--put it back on after the game.

I say they totally overreacted. If the ref had said 'hey, you look like a Muslim, get off my field', then I would agree with their decision to drop out of the tournament. I don't think people should be excluded from things like this based on their religion, but I don't think that anyone should get special privileges for that reason either. If you allow crap like that, you're going to start seeing Flying Spaghetti Monster sombreros and the like, and you'll have nobody to blame for it but yourself.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by tenseiken

silly

which I couldn't possibly care less about

It's a hat, for crying out loud

crap like that

This is the actual problem -- total lack of respect and understanding.

What's worse, tenseiken (and a whole lot of other people) probably doesn't even realize it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't really see a problem with her wearing it, it's certainly not a safety issue. But to me, I think people in a regulated sports event should all have a uniform set of clothing. It's where the term "uniform" comes from. It just makes sure everything is fair, regardless of how silly it may be to imagine wearing a hijab is unfair.

It's like when you were in school and you ask for something specifically for yourself and the teacher replies "Well now, if YOU got a cookie, then EVERYone should want a cookie." I could see things like this getting out of hand if kids started wanting to wear their little fashionable caps, skirts, etc. It's not safety risk, right?

That's why I say "Regulated wear across the board with only slight allowances for deviation."

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I wonder if it's because the ref was Muslim as well that he felt he could speak out about it? I could imagine some other refs might not have brought it up in the possibility that they'd get "Well, you just don't like Muslims!" thrown in their face.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

As a fellow soccer referee, I can sort of understand the decision. She technically isn't allowed to wear it (shin guards, shorts, socks, jersey and cleats are what is allowed), but the ref is obviously being too harsh. I've let players play with religious symbols (bracelet/turbans for Sikhs), and I would allow a hijab. This ref was either an ass or a noob. I don't know any other Quebec refs that would have made the same decision.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Guys. Those are the Soccer's rules. The referee applied them. End of the story.

Now, as to discuss the actual validity of Soccer rules is an entirely different thing. Sheesh. People can't help but take every issues from an emotional point of view, nowadays.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by niki

Guys. Those are the Soccer's rules. The referee applied them. End of the story.

Now, as to discuss the actual validity of Soccer rules is an entirely different thing. Sheesh. People can't help but take every issues from an emotional point of view, nowadays.

This is actually a big issue in Quebec these days ever since the Herouxville incident. Les "accomodements raisonables" (reasonable accomodations) have been huge in Quebec for a few months now.

I was speaking idiomatically.

My take on the matter: complete overreaction.

No, not for the reasons tenseiken stated. The precedent had already been set when Mansour was allowed to wear her hijab for other games in the tournament. This was simply a bad call by the referee, and the sensible way to go about it would be to finish the game with another substitute and tender a complaint later. Boycotting the tournament en masse over the actions of one official, who certainly doesn't represent the entirety of the governing authorities, is simply a knee-jerk reaction which will just end up attracting unwanted and unproductive bitchfests over tangential topics (like every religious/racial controversy ever). Not to mention you've just disrupted a good part of the tournament proceedings.

This doesn't mean that Mansour has an irrevocable right to wear the hijab. If a ruling against headscarves had been explicitly stipulated in the regulations and Mansour barred from playing with the hijab from the get-go, then they wouldn't have much of a case. Consider an incident elsewhere, where a couple of Muslim students in a public school were barred from wearing headscarves in violation of the uniform code. The controversy was quickly quelled when the highest Islamic authority of Singapore (where this happened) issued a statement in support of the school authorities -- since "education was more important than headscarves" and that the rule only applied for the few hours they were in school.

Now that makes sense.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Bigblah

This is the actual problem -- total lack of respect and understanding.

What's worse, tenseiken (and a whole lot of other people) probably doesn't even realize it.

Wow, taken out of context like that, I look even more like a jerk, don't I? I was wondering how long it would take before my abrasive tone rubbed someone wrong. If respect and understanding is the real problem here, then what about the ref who, according to the quoted article, is a Muslim? I'm sure he understands and respects Islam more than I do.

I'm going to risk sounding abrasive again and say that I don't respect people for being members of a religion. I don't respect organized religions themselves, either. I simply don't find either to be worthy of respect. I don't respect people for saying their favorite color is red, either. I do, however, respect their right to affiliate themselves however they please, and I respect their right to make their child wear a scarf on her head.

But things like that have a time and a place. Strictly speaking, they were supposed to be in uniform. I'm sure there was something to that effect in the disclaimer or whatever the parents had to sign in order to get their kid enrolled in the league. Insisting on wearing it, despite the obvious uniform rule, makes it seem like they just wanted to stir the pot a little, particularly since she was (apparently) the only one wearing one.

Still, if I had been in the ref's shoes, I'd have ignored it and let her play, if only to avoid the ensuing shitstorm that always happens in cases like these. It's just a kids' soccer league, after all. The refs weren't particularly picky about uniforms when I was in a kid soccer league either, as long as one team was one color and the other team was another, and as long as you could see each player's number.

Oh, and I'm right there with you on finishing the game and filing a complaint later. The coach should've gotten the ref's name, and then let the rest of the kids play. Pulling the team(s) out of the tournament was a pretty obvious attention play.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by JammerLea

I wonder if it's because the ref was Muslim as well that he felt he could speak out about it? I could imagine some other refs might not have brought it up in the possibility that they'd get "Well, you just don't like Muslims!" thrown in their face.

This is a possibility, too. She may have been allowed to play by other refs in the tournament for the second reason you cited. They could claim "rules are rules" until they were blue in the face, but they would have still been labeled haters.

Now, the reaction to the ref who DID take a stand was uncalled for. Forfeiting the game because he was right? Blah's correct. The game should have been continued with another player, then a formal protest submitted. He knows what the hijab means--probably more than any other ref, and STILL he asked for it to be removed.

It's possible he WAS concerned for the girl's safety. One good grab of the hijab, and the girl can be strangled.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Mucknuggle

This is actually a big issue in Quebec these days ever since the Herouxville incident. Les "accomodements raisonables" (reasonable accomodations) have been huge in Quebec for a few months now.

We had (and most probably will have) this issue here with the respect of laïcité in public schools. Modern French people are usually pretty fast to be fucktards and think with their bleeding hearts rather than with their brains as well, but the French Revolution heritage makes that the Laïcité concept is still a very respected one in the public opinion. The last major crisis was thus settled quite fast, for a change.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Um. I can't see a hijab being a major danger as jewellry would be, but still, it's not exactly on the kit list is it? The idea of a uniform is that everyone looks the same. It reminds me of that case about flight attendants who wanted to be able to wear hijabs and veils, yet christians couldn't wear small crosses. We all adhere to the same kind of restrictions.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by tenseiken

Wow, taken out of context like that, I look even more like a jerk, don't I? I was wondering how long it would take before my abrasive tone rubbed someone wrong. If respect and understanding is the real problem here, then what about the ref who, according to the quoted article, is a Muslim? I'm sure he understands and respects Islam more than I do.

Oh, I certainly wasn't referring to him when I said that. But if you're going to have a civil debate on, say, whether headscarves should be allowed on the football field, dismissing their beliefs as insignificant is rather unlikely to sit well with even the moderates. In fact, calling the hijab a goddamn hat is an insult to my cognizant ability.

And, to be honest, I found your shitty slippery slope argument much more "abrasive" than that. Flying Spaghetti Monster sombreros haha oh dear

(Note: by "respect" I don't mean "genuflect", it is just formal substitution for "don't be a dick")

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Bernard Black

It reminds me of that case about flight attendants who wanted to be able to wear hijabs and veils, yet christians couldn't wear small crosses. We all adhere to the same kind of restrictions.

The problem is: the hijab is considered by many NOT to be a religious symbol, but rather a cultural one.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think it's completely fair. If I can't wear a fucking watch or other jewelry while I'm playing a sport, no one else should be able to either. If I were the ref, I wouldn't have called her on it since it isn't a safety hazard at all (just like a watch or a ring), but she's the one who's playing soccer and agreeing to play by the rules that everyone has to follow.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I think the referee was out of order if the girl has played other games and been allowed it on. It maybe the rules of the game but its still unfair for the girl to be ejected from the game. Seeing as the referee was a uslim himself surely he would understand that it is part of her culture to wear one.
Although I can see the concern of it being a safety hazard, if it wasn't loose, it was tied tightly and was tucked into her shorts. It didn't fall while she was running I can't see the problem. It's not like it could've been used as a weapon like a ring, long nails or a watch.

The other thing is if FIFA had made a rule about hijabs then I could understand the referees decision but there is nothing about it mentioned. I think he was out of order slightly by doing this.

How ya doing, buddy?

I would have at least made sure that the hijab was safely secure. At the same time, it was the interpretation of the rule that the referee made the decision. Maybe itwasa bad call, but he was just interpreting the rules. Unfortunetly, some referees interpret things differently. But yeah, you would think there would be some sort of flexibility.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by tenseiken

Seems to me like it's not vitally important if all the other girls left theirs in mom's minivan. It's a hat, for crying out loud--put it back on after the game.

As hilarious as you and your juvenile trolling are, I want to know where you got the notion that the entire team was some kind of Muslim-only gang.

Originally Posted by Leknaat

It's possible he WAS concerned for the girl's safety. One good grab of the hijab, and the girl can be strangled.

You can't strangle someone with that any more than you could with a t-shirt. Like any other shirt, a grab could choke you for a second and leave you winded and offbalance, maybe haul you off your feet if it's vicious enough with one mean landing on your back/head. But last I heard shirts weren't banned as safety calamities. (Aside from the brasilians who rip them off at every opportunity)

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by koifox

You can't strangle someone with that any more than you could with a t-shirt. Like any other shirt, a grab could choke you for a second and leave you winded and offbalance, maybe haul you off your feet if it's vicious enough with one mean landing on your back/head. But last I heard shirts weren't banned as safety calamities. (Aside from the brasilians who rip them off at every opportunity)

You can strangle someone with a t-shirt....

But, my point was, since he was a Muslim, maybe he feared that someone WOULD get a good hold of it on purpose and try to hurt her. But, it's not the fact he did it that's the point--it's the reaction afterwards.

How ya doing, buddy?