[360] X360 & 720p, oh wait... I'm an idiot...

How good a game is for the most part comes down to personal preference. Considering one my favorite games to this day is Final Fantasy IV which isn't even a native SNES game but a NES port - clearly graphics are not the only thing.

However saying that graphics don't matter is a mistake. All other things being equal, I'd rather have better visuals than not have better visuals. Seem's like a ridiculous statement to make but it's just as outlandish as a statement such
as

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Just because someone doesn't have a HDTV does not mean they have an outdated tv

of course SDTV's are outdated in comparasion to HDTV. It's like saying if someone bought a newly manufactored VHS player - the format is still outdated compared to DVD.

If you say WELL NOW, HDTV DOESN'T HAVE THE PENETRATION that DVD players do - I'll conceed that for right now but you are still going to be retarded when you revisit this thread a year from now.

Again:

1.) If graphics didn't matter, game reviews would not include Graphics (or presentation for that matter) as scoring criteria.

2.) If you do not have HD, you are not enjoying XBOX360/PS3 games the way the creator's intended. I don't think the artists created high resolution visuals and wanting for people to see their work not seen in the best possible light.

3.) Taking the exact same title, I have a better experience than you. This isn't I am having more fun playing Final Fantasy VII than you are playing Final Fantasy VI because my graphics are better. It's we are both playing Final Fantasy VII, my experience is better than yours.

4.) You are all confusing my posts with the OP's. Someone made a comment that 720P/HD gaming is not a big deal. I contest that it is. Am I pissed that Call of Duty 3 is 600P compared to 720P? Not at all. I can still tell you though that 600P is a whole hell of a lot better looking than 480P.

5.) We are not even comparing X game is better than Y game because of better graphics. I am saying X game is better than X game in high def vs standard def. Why people are arguing that fact makes no sense to me.

6.) Analogies like Component > Composite > Coaxial is meant to illustrate the gains and downgrades one would experience by not using the best possible output option offered by your respective gaming console.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

of course SDTV's are outdated in comparasion to HDTV. It's like saying if someone bought a newly manufactored VHS player - the format is still outdated compared to DVD.

They still sell SDTV's worldwide, brand new, and are still being made.

I'd hardly call them outdated, even in comparison to HDTV. The quality is better, but they've been the standard since the 80's, and I doubt they'll be going anywhere anytime soon.

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HEY GUYS GEARS OF WAR ONLY SEEMS TO RUN AT 1024x576 BASED ON THE GAMESPOTS SCREENSHOTS IT MUST BE A CRAP GAME BECAUSE OF THIS AMIRITE?
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen004.jpg

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Graphics Whores GTFO.

I was playing TMNT3 for NES the other day and marvelling how much MORE fun I found it than playing crappy latest generation games like Perfect Dark Zero. I was amused how my Xbox owning friend could only comment on how crappy the NES graphics were when I was busy marvelling how much more fun it was.

Also, I REALLY enjoy Chorno Trigger and FFIII (VI) much moreso than a number of games from later generations. e.g. FF VIII and Chrono Cross. I was very annoyed at people who whined about the graphics in CT when it was rereleased on PS1 because they obviously have no comprehension of gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike new games. I really enjoyed Metriod Prime and F-Zero GX but the hopped up graphics and 3D gameplay didn't make them surperior to their predecessors. Furthemore, it took Nintendo four tries at MarioKart to come up with a game which stands on par with the original.

I really think someone needs to draft a worldwide edict that relegates gaming technology back to it's 16bit side scrolling days for a decade so we can effectively purge the world of graphics whores and force game developers to focus on gameplay rather than pretty visuals.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Capcom for better or worse, have made two of their XB360 games nearly unplayable on a SDTV setup. Dead Rising and Lost Planet have unreadable text under SDTV resolution.

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http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/capcom/...uel-217066.php

This is rumor but its possible that Red Steel for PAL countries will require progressive scan -> HDTV inputs to play as well for the Nintendo Wii.

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http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/red-ste...nly-217211.php

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Also, I REALLY enjoy Chorno Trigger and FFIII (VI) much moreso than a number of games from later generations. e.g. FF VIII and Chrono Cross.

This is a stacked argument as everyone knows that FFVIII and CC is completely owned by FFVI and CT.

Suikoden V, Xenosaga I, Final Fantasy X, Knights of the Old Republic, etc make better examples that story, gameplay, graphics can co-exist just fine.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by boRAT

I really think someone needs to draft a worldwide edict that relegates gaming technology back to it's 16bit side scrolling days for a decade so we can effectively purge the world of graphics whores and force game developers to focus on gameplay rather than pretty visuals.

I think the reason why those old games were so good was because they had nothing to offer but gameplay. Gameplay was the primary factor that made those old school games so compelling. If they could just get a little more of that gameplay in these new games with all the stunning visuals, I'd be a much happier gamer.

An example of a new game with pretty simple graphics that is awesomly fun... Wii Sports. I spent the weekend playing Wii Sports with my cousins. I haven't had as much fun with a multiplayer game since getting in fights over Mario Kart and Street Fighter II Turbo. The graphics on Wii sports are more simple than the Monkey Ball games. Some of the character models don't even have arms or legs.

I'm glad that at least Nintendo seems to know what's up. I'm sure that the Wii will have some fun games on it that are focused on awesome gameplay rather than window dressing.

(Not trying to be a fanboy here at all.)

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You popele do realize that graphics were touted a lot back then too, right?

Remember Star Fox? SUPER FX CHIP WOWEE AWESOME KAPOW BANG WHIZZ. CHECK THIS OUT HOLY COW. Or Donkey Kong Country, or Yoshi's Island, or any of that jazz? Graphics have been pushed since FOREVER. It has nothing to do with what era you're in.

There were beautiful games back then too that had ZERO fucking gameplay content, just as there are now. The game's weren't BETTER, pound for pound. There was quality and there was shit, just like today. Graphcs always have been and always will be important.

All this "OLD SCHOOL IS BETTER HUR HUR BECAUSE BACK THEN THEY FOCUSED ON GAMEPLAY" talk is depressing when it's just flat out NOT TRUE. Yeesh.

That said I'm totally siding with Tony here. Graphics are important. They aren't the whole point but they aren't toss away bullshit like some of you are implying.

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Would you have played Wii Sports so much if the characters had all been stick figures and the pins were all flat pieces of cardboard?

Would anyone be playing Zelda on the Wii if it was still the 2D overhead perspective with maybe 10 colors on screen, like in NES Zelda? (Color amount is probably wrong)

Skills has a point in that graphics aren't the devil, but at the same time it's bad when people overemphasize the graphics. Gears of War is an amazing-looking game, and they clearly spent a lot of time making sure it looked great. But at the same time, they also made sure the game PLAYED well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game looking great as long as the game plays great also. If you immediately dismiss a game because it looks great, something's wired backwards in your head.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Dude, have you seen the character models in Wii Sports? They look like unfinished Lego people. The emphasis of the game is not on graphics at all.

Nowhere did I state that quality graphics are the devil. I'm only saying that neglecting good gameplay and trying to make up for it with pretty graphics doesn't work.

And, many old school games have stood the test of time in that they're still incredibly fun to play, but their graphics obviously don't compare with stuff that's currently being released. There were a lot of solid games that had terrible graphics (ie Earthbound) but the design was so good that they were awesome anyways. Nowdays, good graphics should be a given. Every current gen console is capable of displaying beautiful visuals. And the quality of the titles shouldn't be based on whether or not they can be displayed in 720p or not. If high res graphics where a deciding factor in the quality of games, PC games would have had the market cornered years ago and home consoles wouldn't be able to compete.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

You popele do realize that graphics were touted a lot back then too, right?

Remember Star Fox? SUPER FX CHIP WOWEE AWESOME KAPOW BANG WHIZZ. CHECK THIS OUT HOLY COW. Or Donkey Kong Country, or Yoshi's Island, or any of that jazz? Graphics have been pushed since FOREVER. It has nothing to do with what era you're in.

There were beautiful games back then too that had ZERO fucking gameplay content, just as there are now. The game's weren't BETTER, pound for pound. There was quality and there was shit, just like today. Graphcs always have been and always will be important.

All this "OLD SCHOOL IS BETTER HUR HUR BECAUSE BACK THEN THEY FOCUSED ON GAMEPLAY" talk is depressing when it's just flat out NOT TRUE. Yeesh.

That said I'm totally siding with Tony here. Graphics are important. They aren't the whole point but they aren't toss away bullshit like some of you are implying.

But, Starfox and Donkey Kong Country did not play like a piece of shit. That's a basic difference there. I mean, why is Retro such a huge mania right now that Nintendo based a console around it, if not for the fact that something is lacking in current games?
And don't bring up Yoshis Island into a gfx vs gameplay debate. Ever.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm not saying any of those games were bad. In fact, I love all three. I'm using them as examples of graphical powerhouses. You may remember that, back then, those games were some of the most beautiful around. And you can be SURE that when they came out, the graphics were hyped to HELL AND BACK. Hell, I remember the ads. I remember the hype. Back then graphics were put into the spotlight like they are now.

If you want examples of games that suck but look great, look at the SNES version of Street Fighter Alpha 2. Or Dirt Trax FX. Those games ain't so good, but they sure as fuck looked nice. I'll even use the infamous 32X Doom port example. Looked pretty good considering what the thing could do, but fuck if the game wasn't shit. My point is that games that focused on graphics above gameplay aren't exclusive to this or the next generation. Neither are games that are both beautiful and play well, and games that are ugly as sin and play like shit.

Good job totally missing my point, by the way. You win. :thumbsup:

And lastly, this retro fad isn't just a gaming thing, pop culture is going through it like crazy right now. Walk into Best Buy and buy 80s cartoons on DVD. There are transformers G1 reissues figures that fly off the shelves. Grown men buy Nerf guns, people over the age of 20 buy Thundercats shirts from Hot Topic. It's not just a gaming thing, God damn. I'm willing to bet the people who are 8 to 10 now will be looking back fondly on the PS2 and Gamecube in 2017 when the PS5 is coming out. Nostalgia sells.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by MetheGelfling

Nowhere did I state that quality graphics are the devil. I'm only saying that neglecting good gameplay and trying to make up for it with pretty graphics doesn't work.

I agree with this, but it never has. Everyone here is making it out to sound like this is a recent phenominon when it's not. It's been happening since forever, basically.

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And, many old school games have stood the test of time in that they're still incredibly fun to play,

And I'm willing to bet in 10 years, when PS2 stuff is old school, there will be some that hold up to the test of time. That are still fun, and still entertaining. You guys are totally making it out to sound like there won't be any, and that this entire gen is a throwaway now. And that's simply wrong.

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Every current gen console is capable of displaying beautiful visuals.

Back then, Earthbound wasn't terribly hideous either. Sure, it wasn't, say, Chrono Trigger, but it wasn't as bad as some of the other games available either (Secret of the Stars, anyone?). It sure looks dated now, but back then it's no different than the rather plain visuals in, say, GTA 3 or something. It'll hold up because of the gameplay, and it'll have a bunch of people who remember it fondly. No different here.

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And the quality of the titles shouldn't be based on whether or not they can be displayed in 720p or not.

I never meant to imply that they were, and the OP is a fucking moron, but that's beside the point. All I'm saying is that graphics have been important since the beginning, and they will continue to be for as long as games are played in their current form. To think it's any different now than it used to be is foolish.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Skills is correct. I hate these elitist people that keep saying videogames were better back in the days. People just so happen to love what they grow up with. It's called nostalgia. You'll eventually get over it and notice how modern games have actually improved in a lot of aspects. Even though I'm older than your typical "gamer", I seem to often enjoy playing games more than I did ten years ago.

I was speaking idiomatically.