[PS2] Xenosaga III: Also Sprach Zarathustra

Colonel Skills: I believe we both made our points and I'd rather not argue/discuss it anymore. I just want you to know I do understand and respect your viewpoint.

Winter Storm:

Erde Kaiser Sigma

Spoiler:

I actually beat Erde Kaiser Sigma at level 41 without any of the other Erde Kaisers. The key to victory for me was 1/2 fire damage bracelets on all and keeping Safety up on as many people in the party as possible at all times. Shion was my healer, MOMO was the attacker keeping Blood Dancer up as much as possible. I used KOS-MOS in the final spot as a backup healer and Safety caster. When Sigma cycled to being vulnerable to fire I tore him apart with Blood Dancer boosted NEMESIS and D-TENERITAS attacks.

Omega Id

Spoiler:

As for Omega-Id, its actually really easy as well. Buy lots of Half Repairs and Medium Nano repairs. Basically have at least someone heal each round. If one person needs HP just use the single items, if more than one use the half repairs. Keep everyone at high HP at all times. Naturally the best person to heal would be someone who's attacks would be nulled on their turn.

Keep at least one persons Anima gage below 1 at all times after he hits half health. If he uses that power up attack (sorry I forgot the name) just have everyone guard/charge that round and it will be impossible for him to kill anyone even with two attack rounds. I had one ES with one of those 1/2 guard damage things on and he usually did a pitiful 6000 dmg max while guarding.

FELIPE NO

Now that's very clever. I was level 67 when I fought Sigma. My strat was very much in disarray. He goes into uber mode when he's at half health. It turned into everyone of us having to cast Revert almost every round until only KOS-MOS was left -.-. I will try what you advised above. For ID, I have like 40 All repairs from that insane leveling fest I did on the Merkabah lol and like 99 halfs and mediums .

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Simple question on the Xenogears tie-ins:

Spoiler:

If they didn't intend Xenosaga to be a prequel to xenogears, then why the bloody hell did they leave the story line at the end of Episode III so friggen open ended >_<.

Even if the intention wasn't there, you could write any thing you wanted to after Episode III to make it seem like the games were connected =/

If the game really was ment to be it's own story, why does it leave such a gapping hole at the end of it?

(ok so I repeated my question a few times...)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by vertigo

Simple question on the Xenogears tie-ins:

Spoiler:

If they didn't intend Xenosaga to be a prequel to xenogears, then why the bloody hell did they leave the story line at the end of Episode III so friggen open ended >_<.

Even if the intention wasn't there, you could write any thing you wanted to after Episode III to make it seem like the games were connected =/

If the game really was ment to be it's own story, why does it leave such a gapping hole at the end of it?

(ok so I repeated my question a few times...)

That's stupid. Why leave anything open-ended? What about the countless movies that are open-ended? What about FF7?

Open-ended endings =/= a reason to tie it together. It's open-ended because the ending would have been fucking lame and lost the whole meaning and feel to it if they just spelled out every single thing to you.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Plus Takahashi made it pretty damn clear from the get-go that XS != XG.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Is it just me or did they make wilhelm not as powerful as he was set up to be?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

LOL, oh Wilhelm is powerful. The way he used his power at the end was to match his personality no less. I mean damn, nothing really bothered this guy and he shows no anger(mildly at the end).

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Mary. What you are doing?
You fool.

lol

He really had no impact at the end though.

I was speaking idiomatically.

He really should have been the final boss.

Spoiler:

I wish I knew what makes developers think out of the blue, super hideously deformed, monstrosity final bosses that have nothing to do with the plot are always a good idea. It's getting very cliche these days, and the whole 'Zarathustra' thing was a big disappointment. It was like they deliberately waited to throw that in at the last minute. But at least the music was awesome, Yuki FTW! I personally would have rathered seen Wilhelm do something, anything, even if it was ridiculous like morphing into the rainbow testament.

...

What?

Most amazing jew boots

wilhelm is great an all but

Spoiler:

i hate the way he was "killed off".. it was great how he just looked at kevin when his arm was cut off

but other then that i love the music also, my favorite being the one when you enter the ruins in the cave of the floating landmass..of course i like others too..

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by blackbird862000

wilhelm is great an all but

Spoiler:

i hate the way he was "killed off".. it was great how he just looked at kevin when his arm was cut off

but other then that i love the music also, my favorite being the one when you enter the ruins in the cave of the floating landmass..of course i like others too..

Spoiler:

So true. I couldn't believe that there wasn't a final ES fight between Joshua and the party. He was pretty much like "oh look I guess I lost, good bye" .......

Most amazing jew boots

I managed to finish the game earlier this afternoon.

Just a few thoughts about the final battle and the game in general:

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I didn't know who the final boss was, but I sensed that I was near the end of the game after I defeated Kevin's second form. The final boss itself wasn't too difficult at all, and I was Level 57 when I attempted it. I was a little surprised that it only took me one try to beat the final boss this time since Episode I and II's bosses took me a little longer.

Overall, the game was enjoyable. It seemed that the difficulty in this one decreased compared to the previous two though. Oh, and I also thought the unlocked features after completing the game were a nice addition.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I started on Disc 2 this week, and I currently just finished the battle with Black. Things are progressing well, but I have some dissappointments that I'll get into when I finish. But I will say right now my biggest dissapointment by far.

Spoiler:

I was told in advance that Albedo's screentime was short, but I didn't expect that they would completely ruin the character. After the big teaser in EPII and the awesome potential of him wrecking havoc as a Testament, it all turns out that Albedo just wanted to play nice with Jr and end up together again in one body.

I have a serious problem with this because it completely strips Albedo of his previous evilness. Suddenly all is forgiven for his sadistic torturing of MOMO and her sisters, the supposed murder of Sakura (according to XS DS), and any other innocent people he might've butchered along the way.

They should have left things as they were in EPII. In the end they added some sympathy with Albedo in his final moments, but at least he went down as a power-hungry villain. It was an even trade in that case, but in EPIII they just wanted to wipe his record clean. I know the writers probably intended from the beginning to make Albedo a sympathetic character, but he performed the role of a villain so well, this feels like a big disservice.

Edit: Just wanted to mention that "Godsibb" is currently my favorite song in the OST. Nobody beats Kajiura when it comes to dramatic battle themes. This game is full of some of the best fight tracks I've heard anywhere. It's nice to see her being used correctly, unlike the previous episode. It'd be reason enough to continue the series just to hear her compose more tracks.

How ya doing, buddy?

I don't have the game yet,but the OST is really really great! It's the best of the Xenosaga.
It's ashame I want to see the co-work between Yasunori&Yuji in the last episode. When the beginning and endinng work together

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I just finished the game a few minutes ago. Big post coming up, so be ready.

The ending was beautifully well done, in both length and emotion. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I nearly cried when

Spoiler:

Jin and Shion parted ways, followed by Jin's death.

That being said, I'm afraid to say that I'm still very dissapointed by much of the story. Two things in particular nearly ruined it for me.

For one, I hate Shion now. Well not really, but I've seriously lost a lot of my admiration for the character. She was a real bitch in EPII, and while she's less bitchy in this one, her inexcusable stupidty didn't help redeem her.

In the first disc, she constantly responds to the villains' comments with "What do you mean? I don't understand!". Then there's her bullshit decision in the 2nd disc.

Spoiler:

So she learns in advance that Kevin has been using her since before they met, as well as the fact that he was somewhat responsible for the death of both her parents. Despite all this, she still decides to go with him, and backstabs all her friends. She does all this whining about always being alone and that no one understands her. Okay, so KOS-MOS, Allen, MOMO and the rest don't matter, huh bitch.

Even though she wised up, it took Allen's near-death to do it. This was a lame attempt to add some drama. Maybe if Shion and Kevin's relationship got more focus (like say, Fei and Elly. Now those two definetely loved each other.), I would understand how she'd be willing to throw everything away to be with him.

At least on the upside, Allen has risen high above my list as a real hero. Then again he was always likeable, but it was still fun to watch him grow while his stubborn love interest only got worse.

Then there's my second beef with this game; the lack of any real interaction. Pretty much all the supporting characters got shit for dialog, and none of them ever interacted with each other. The reason I've always loved MOMO as a character is the way she seamlessly established a close relationship with all the other characters; Ziggy's like a father, Jr is her love interest, Shion's like her older sister. But these relationships are completely, utterly ignored in this game. MOMO and everyone else only says plot-relavent dialogue, and never anything personal or unique.

This becomes a major problem for the major moments in this game. For example,

Spoiler:

losing Gaignan should've been utterly tragic for Jr. He shows enough sadness during the cutscene, but no one interjects during the scene. In fact, no one else even appears. Than afterwards, Jr never mentions anything about Gaignun afterwards. Blink and you would've missed it. Same thing applies to Canaan's death.

Basically, things were rushed. It's understandable thanks to EPII's piss-short runtime and the smaller budget, but that doesn't justify things. There are some great scenes here, but they would have benefited much more with extra exposition and dialogue.

Well in short, the Xenosaga series was very good in the end, but it had the potential to be fantastic. I feel cheated seeing my favorite characters getting screwed out of the spotlight just because they had to make room for Shion (and it's even worse if you don't like Shion). It's just bad design to cast aside the supporting characters like that, ignoring the relationships and personalities they established. Although despite the apocalyptic finale, there is room for a sequel. I just don't think I'm willing to get my hopes up all over again. I'd prefer if Takahashi started fresh with a new series or setting, and get things right from the start. But even so, I'll always wonder what could've been.

And speaking of the possible connection between Xenosaga and Xenogears...

Spoiler:

looks like it does and doesn't connect. It basically happened the way I always expected, rewriting the continuity, but still keeping the basic idea. Nephilim becomes "Elly" (grows up) and travels to Earth along with Abel, as well as the souls of the Gnosis and humans who died. I especially liked the touch of Jin joining them, since his death will lead him to be reborn as you-know-who. I suppose the next episode would be a "New Xenogears", if it ever happened.

I'm not sure if I approve that Shion is still around though, since she was fated to die. And it's especially silly that she left to find Lost Jerusalem, since she'd probably die before she was even 1/4 of the way there. Well I suppose there's always the plot twist where she finds a shortcut or something. So there is a chance Shion, Jr and the others could return for a sequel, it sort of leaves out MOMO, and I seriously don't approve of that.

And finally, regarding the big, big revelation on who KOS-MOS finally is...

Spoiler:

I was pretty shocked myself. XG was thought to have crossed the line back then with its religious content, but most of it was made up. Xenosaga, however, actually went and showed a rendered Jesus Christ, followed by Mary Magdeline. I kind of felt uncomfortable over that, and the song played (hepatica) really enhanced things. While again, this would've benefited with more exposure and information, it was still well done, and it was nice to finally see KOS-MOS with a personality.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

I'd prefer if Takahashi started fresh with a new series or setting, and get things right from the start. But even so, I'll always wonder what could've been.

They already did that, it's called Xenosaga. Xenosaga was already a fresh start, and Episode I did do things right from the start. Takahashi's ideas are just too ambitious for his own good. I'd prefer if he just gives up, because his vision will just get raped and left for the hounds just like it always is.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yeah, that's certainly the major problem with XS; it was just too big for its own good. I found the database in EPI nice and informing, but I just sighed sadly in the database in EPIII. It was basically all the leftoever ideas that never came to pass.

Should've stuck with anime.

But still, if he sets his sights smaller, and makes sure to make the next game longer, there's a chance he could get things right. Xenogears was unfinished, and that still kicked ass.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that MOMO's Swordfish is the funniest special move I've seen in a while. I know she's a Realien, but damn.

Spoiler:

I like how she stomps her feet on the ground like Akuma.

EDIT2: I also just read the post-game database, which sort of hints (or maybe just gives a final resolution) what the characters will do after. MOMO's made me ill.

Spoiler:

So basically she can body hop when she's old enough, essentially growing into an adult. And she can have babies? What the freaking hell? On the one hand, it gives hope to her and Jr settling down for real, but I don't think it's something I want to see.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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For one, I hate Shion now. Well not really, but I've seriously lost a lot of my admiration for the character. She was a real bitch in EPII, and while she's less bitchy in this one, her inexcusable stupidty didn't help redeem her.

In the first disc, she constantly responds to the villains' comments with "What do you mean? I don't understand!". Then there's her bullshit decision in the 2nd disc.

I didn't much care for Shion in Episode I, and outright hated her in II ("Jr., calm down! Don't you want to make peace with your brother?" Ugh, shut the fuck up.), but I actually found her tolerable for the most part in III, despite fits of idiocy -- the ones you listed, plus her refusal to listen to KOS-MOS whenever she was trying to protect her.

Spoiler:

I thought the reintroduction of Kevin into her life was handled pretty well, and added some depth to her character (until the whole flip-flop sequence),

I actually found Allen's final scenes to be pretty damn laughable ("I'M GONNA PROTECT SHION RRRAAARRGGGHHHH!"). We all knew it was coming, but the way it was handled was embarrassing. From zero to hero in under 2 minutes? Come on...

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Then there's my second beef with this game; the lack of any real interaction. Pretty much all the supporting characters got shit for dialog, and none of them ever interacted with each other. The reason I've always loved MOMO as a character is the way she seamlessly established a close relationship with all the other characters; Ziggy's like a father, Jr is her love interest, Shion's like her older sister. But these relationships are completely, utterly ignored in this game. MOMO and everyone else only says plot-relavent dialogue, and never anything personal or unique.

That's because they really didn't need to focus on Jr. or MOMO anymore. Jr. especially was... overexposed this entire series -- I actually dreaded when the focus briefly shifted to him on disc 2, if only because I was sick of him (still, his part of the story WAS awesome, I'll admit). MOMO's little scene with Mizrahi was actually quite touching, but it was enough for her. She's really nothing more than a secondary character with a cliched character arc, and is only really around for the loli factor.

The only character I felt got royally screwed was Ziggy, having most of his story relegated to a damn cellphone game. And from what little we see of it in XSIII, it looked pretty damn awesome.

Overall though, I enjoyed the hell out of XSIII and can easily say it's the best of the series. Hell, Xenosaga as a whole >>>>>>>>> Xenogears, despite Episode II being one of the worst RPGs ever.

FELIPE NO

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"Jr., calm down! Don't you want to make peace with your brother?"

MOMO: "Do ANY of you remember what he did to me!?"

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I actually found Allen's final scenes to be pretty damn laughable ("I'M GONNA PROTECT SHION RRRAAARRGGGHHHH!"). We all knew it was coming, but the way it was handled was embarrassing. From zero to hero in under 2 minutes? Come on...

It's not like Allen busted out the Ether and took out Red. It was a battle of who had the stronger love, and his won. I was mostly watching the whole thing intently because

Spoiler:

I thought he would die. I honestly wouldn't hold back the tears if that happened.

The scene during the ending sequence was much more embarrasing, but I still laughed.

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That's because they really didn't need to focus on Jr. or MOMO anymore. Jr. especially was... overexposed this entire series -- I actually dreaded when the focus briefly shifted to him on disc 2, if only because I was sick of him (still, his part of the story WAS awesome, I'll admit). MOMO's little scene with Mizrahi was actually quite touching, but it was enough for her. She's really nothing more than a secondary character with a cliched character arc, and is only really around for the loli factor.

But that's the thing, just because the characters aren't important to the grand scheme of the story anymore doesn't mean you have to chuck them aside. It didn't matter to me how important MOMO's role was (even though none of this would've happened without the Y Data), but the fact that she does little to no interaction at all is what bothered me. Come on, she doesn't say a damn thing in either Jr or Ziggy's character-specific scenes, and the same applies to the other characters.

Nobody talks to anybody here, aside from anything plot-related, or just to tell Shion to calm the fuck down.

And aside from the whole "nonhuman longing to be human" angle, I found MOMO's to be one of the best stories in the series, but again because of how she forms a deep connection with the other characters. I didn't much care for Shion's faux-lesbian pining over KOS-MOS, but I always liked the way she would care for MOMO, such as the scene in the Durandal park in EPI. But oh well, none of that exists in this game.

It was obvious with the Albedo scene in the first game that they intended MOMO's role to be darker and more serious. But I think somewhere halfway some tightwad put a stop to it, so instead she's put out of harm's way and gets together with her estranged mother. Freaking boo.

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The only character I felt got royally screwed was Ziggy, having most of his story relegated to a damn cellphone game. And from what little we see of it in XSIII, it looked pretty damn awesome.

I pretty much aggree. The scenes with Ziggy and Voyager were cool and all, but they deserved far more attention and closure than it got. In the end, they focused more on the sudden surprise connection with Ziggy and another character, and anyone who didn't play Pied Piper wouldn't have a clue about it. I love Ziggy, but I was hoping he'd suicide explode Voyager; it would've been cool (but the way EPIII was going, one or two characters would cry about it, then forget all about him when the cutscene ends).

I still found the ending spectacular, but after some thought I'm also disappointed with it. I thought this would give a clear, 100% final story for Shion and company, but instead it leaves room for multiple spinoffs.

Spoiler:

They could do a game in Lost Jerusalem, focusing on the resurrected Jin and other characters. This part I call "New Xenogears".

They could also focus on Shion and Jr's rather hopeless journey to find Lost Jerusalem.

And they could also focus on MOMO and Ziggy as they stay behind to create a new network. Maybe later on they'll have the awakened (and thus adult) Jr reuniting with MOMO, who is now in her adult body. I'm half interested and half leary in seeing that happen.

It seems there's a few patents, such as Xenosaga X. Wouldn't surprise me if it happens, but it remains whether I'll be suckered in for the third time.

Most amazing jew boots

Quote:

MOMO: "Do ANY of you remember what he did to me!?"

No, no, the worst was in the ending:

Spoiler:

MOMO: "Hey, um, will you be sure to say hi to Albedo for me when he wakes up?"
Jr.: "Sure, but he's pretty lazy so I don't know when that'll be."
MOMO: lolz
Me: UM.

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The scene during the ending sequence was much more embarrasing, but I still laughed.

Yeah, that's what I meant. The first scene was pretty well done.

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But that's the thing, just because the characters aren't important to the grand scheme of the story anymore doesn't mean you have to chuck them aside.

True, but I can't quite blame XSIII for focusing less on the secondary characters because it had a TON of story to tell -- I'll blame Episode II for not focusing on anything (one more reason to hate that awful drek).

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I still found the ending spectacular, but after some thought I'm also disappointed with it. I thought this would give a clear, 100% final story for Shion and company, but instead it leaves room for multiple spinoffs.

The thing is, I thought the story actually did wrap itself up quite nicely.

Spoiler:

Sure, it'd be fun to continue the story on Lost Jerusalem, but I think it ended nicely enough as is.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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No, no, the worst was in the ending:

I had that same conversation with someone the other day who also hated that line. I on the other hand didn't find it too horrible.

Spoiler:

It's no secret that MOMO is the forgiving type. It was gay when Jr decided to look at Albedo with a sympathetic light. It was also gay when Albedo decided to live in Jr's body. Therefore, the two gays sort of canceled themselves out when MOMO just went along with the whole "Hey, let's forgive Albedo now" schtick.

Of course, the scene would've worked better if Albedo said something to MOMO before he vanished, something like "Please forgive me, ma belle peche." Would've been sincere and creepy at the same time.

Whatever happened with those Kirschwassers? Oh, I guess he killed them all. No big.

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True, but I can't quite blame XSIII for focusing less on the secondary characters because it had a TON of story to tell -- I'll blame Episode II for not focusing on anything (one more reason to hate that awful drek).

I can blame them for not taking the time to make EPIII longer. I don't know how tight the schedule was, but adding an extra hour or two just so the other characters give some individual, non-derivative dialogue couldn't have been too hard.

To take an example, Rico's screentime in XG pretty much petered out, but they still made sure his dialogue was unique to him ("I've come this far, so there's no point bitchin' about it.")

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So what's the relationship between Shion and Feb?
I still don't get it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Basically, Feb was like a surrogate mother to little Shion while her real mother was being treated in the hospital (and her dad tending to her). Of course, this would've been more meaningful had it not taken three episodes to explain this simple relationship.

I really wonder how many

Spoiler:

people survived by the end of the game. It looked to me like every freaking planet and person was being vaporized or turned into Gnosis, so I wonder just how much of humanity is left. And of course it bugs me how the characters weren't nearly horrified once they got the news.

"Little Master, it's horrible! 80% of mankind has vanished! Everyone is DYING!!"

"Ok, thanks."

Anyone know where I can download scans (scanlated if possible) of the XS manga? All I've seen concerning it were a few covers, but it sounds interesting from this wiki article.

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n 2004, an official Japanese manga adaptation for the series was written by Atsushi Baba and published by Zero Sum Comics. As of 2006, Baba has finished development of Episode I's adaptation and is currently working on Episode II. It is believed that the manga will focus more closely on character development rather than scientific, religious jargon and mysterious shadow games much like with the Neon Genesis Evangelion manga.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Damn, that does sound interesting....

I was speaking idiomatically.

Because I'm sure we're all tired of religious jargon. I know I've been tired of it for years now. It's nice when characters, you know, talk to each other.

It's very hard to find any images of this manga, though. The best I could do is here.

http://www.akadotretail.com/product_...86&cPath=27_7#

There's a chance it could get licensed here like Disgaea and Kingdom Hearts, but who knows. I'd love to read it now if it's available. I'd especially like to see how that infamous scene with Albedo was handled.

On that note, I also wondered how that scene was handled in the DS version.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

I'd especially like to see how that infamous scene with Albedo was handled.

On that note, I also wondered how that scene was handled in the DS version.

The same way it was in the English version and Xenosaga I: Reloaded, but with DS graphics.

But it's a bit different after that. In Xenosaga I&II, the Song of Nephilim and Proto Merkabah are one dungeon. You get MOMO back and then fight Virgil. Albedo runs off deeper into the dungeon. You find him and fight him. Then, you have to fight E.S. Simeon. You can't win it. It's impossible. It kills with one hit. When your party is dead, Canaan shows up in E.S. Asher and holds E.S. Simeon back while you go fight Sophie Peithos.

How ya doing, buddy?