[PS2] Xenosaga III: Also Sprach Zarathustra

Agreed. On the second point that is. My main complaint post-mortum is that there wasn't more E.S. combat. I could've probably played an entire game using that system

I'd be tempted to say I enjoyed it much more than Xenogears' gear combat, if only because you didn't have to worry about Fuel constantly... But of course there needed to be a much wider variety of ES and weaponry. Most all of the normal attacks were either Physical, Fire, or Beam. So when bosses put up elemental resistances, there wasn't much to go with for working around that aside from Anima attacks. So yeah, there could've been a bit more depth, but in general very fun combat system versus the big bads.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I like how i forgot to use spoilers, anywho Yeah the Scene before Chapter 9, was awesome ::radgame:: and lol at those bosses

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Spoiler:

You thought the scene with Shion, Allen and Kevin was awesome? Awesome how, seriously? I thought it was unnecessarily moderated, like practically every love scene in video games these days. No one ever just says 'I love you,' and gets it over with. For me, the scene was a little funny but mostly frustrating because once again, love is overshadowed by friendship, a less mature theme. I hate it when games are toned down. Would it have killed them to make that scene just a little more intimate? Being a type of person who likes a romance, I was quite disappointed with how it turned out. Allen took the beating of his life for Shion and she didn't even embrace him with a hug.

And yeah, that boss fight was hilarious.

FELIPE NO

By scene before chapter 9 i mean the one with JR and the gang.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Guest

Spoiler:

You thought the scene with Shion, Allen and Kevin was awesome? Awesome how, seriously? I thought it was unnecessarily moderated, like practically every love scene in video games these days. No one ever just says 'I love you,' and gets it over with. For me, the scene was a little funny but mostly frustrating because once again, love is overshadowed by friendship, a less mature theme. I hate it when games are toned down. Would it have killed them to make that scene just a little more intimate? Being a type of person who likes a romance, I was quite disappointed with how it turned out. Allen took the beating of his life for Shion and she didn't even embrace him with a hug.

And yeah, that boss fight was hilarious.

I do agree with this, it has been a long time since such a game used the L word in full. He got shafted big time and it's a shame because he developed pretty well as a character in this game.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Aka Shion is such a bitch, I seriouly loathe her character at times, Its just awesome how she's not a stereotypical "goody goody" lets face it, she's a bitch.

How ya doing, buddy?

Does anyone agree that the ending sort of opens up more of the Xenosaga universe? I seriuosly would love to see Xenosaga go to the next gen of rpg's. Dear lord. We'll go from 8 - 10 of fmv to 18 - 20 hours if we see it come to the PS3 and the Blue Ray disc.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I for one hope they continue the series more than anything. Before saga was announced, I was so desperate for a Xenogears sequel that I read almost every fanfic on the net. 'The Real Ricdeau' and 'Circles' were the best ones I came across, especially Circles. I haven't read a fanfic in years, but thanks to the way Episode 3 ended, my old hobby will be back in full effect. It'll be interesting to see how some people will tie in Episode 3's ending with Xenogears and make a hybrid, alternative timeline.

If the developers would harness some of those ideas theres no reason to not continue the series. They only said Episode III was the end of Shion's Ark, I want to see one entirely dedicated to KOS-MOS.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Ah, ha ha ha.

Spoiler:

Kudos for the Maria reference.

Double Kudos for the Chrono Trigger reference (Maria's grandfather was Balthasar, and this one's granpa is Magus. Coincidence? I think not).

prays for an Emeralda reference next.

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Finally finished disc 1 the other night (32 hours on the clock). Holy SHIT, this game's awesome.

"I have to put it back.."

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Just beat it last night. The ending scenes were so moving and powerful

Spoiler:

Why did Jin have to die??!! I didn't like the censorship, I mean come on! He got stabbed twice and his clothes never got torn and not one drop of blood! That took away from the drama, IMO.

Spoiler:

To me, it seemed like the game ended on a strange note. I mean, how will we ever find out how Shion and friends get to Earth/Lost Jerusalem? Will KOS-MOS and chaos come back? Will Jin become the Green Testament (or some other kind/color of Testament or some other enigmatic being)? Would the fourth game star only Shion, Allen, and Jr.? Lots of things left open-ended. It seems Bandai-Namco did that on purpose in case they got enough positive feedback to continue the series, which I really hope they do, only this time for the PS3 and with less censorship -_-

Anyone have anything to add onto this?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Vash

Spoiler:

Will Jin become the Green Testament (or some other kind/color of Testament or some other enigmatic being)?

Spoiler:

Jin's consciousness joins those of the other gnosis gathered in Abel's Ark and eventually is reborn as Hyuuga a.k.a. Citan. To have him go back and fight to the death along with chaos, KOS-MOS and the gang, is to justify his likeness in the new world that results from Abel and Nephilim's saving of the universe that in the long-term results in Xenogears' world. So no, everyone in Abel's Ark at the time of its remanifestation is no longer really part of the Xenosaga timeline.

Which does lead to the question of what Shion, Jr. and company would find if they did find Lost Jerusalem. Considering that even in Xenogears' storyline, that place hadn't been revisited. One could also take the ending as a metaphore for the surviving characters' unwillingness to settle down and let things be. They're always on their search for the next horizon. The Xenosaga team did say comfortably in an interview that this game ends Shion's arc in the overall storyline.

If any new series of games popped up regarding the Xeno universe, my bet would be on them covering Episode VI (Post-Xenogears) in the Perfect Works timeline since that's the only unknown at this point.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I see :/ I never played Xenogears, though I've heard nothing but good things about it, and also listened to the OST (which was quite nice).

Spoiler:

But I'm bummed about Shion's story ending (since it would be her story that lead to Lost Jerusalem and could have probably lasted one more game/episode). Oh well, it was great while it lasted. Kudos, Bandai-Namco

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Vash

Spoiler:

To me, it seemed like the game ended on a strange note. I mean, how will we ever find out how Shion and friends get to Earth/Lost Jerusalem? Will KOS-MOS and chaos come back? Will Jin become the Green Testament (or some other kind/color of Testament or some other enigmatic being)? Would the fourth game star only Shion, Allen, and Jr.? Lots of things left open-ended. It seems Bandai-Namco did that on purpose in case they got enough positive feedback to continue the series, which I really hope they do, only this time for the PS3 and with less censorship -_-

Anyone have anything to add onto this?

Spoiler:

I doubt Jin, or anyone else will become a Testament after what happened to Wilhelm and Zarathustra. I believe if Xenosaga is continued, it will be like an alternate universe of Xenogears. Jin gets reincarnated as Citan, thats a given. KOS-MOS will be the first one the land on Lost Jerusalem, what else could that planet she was drifting towards have been? I'm going to go with an old theory in that KOS-MOS becomes Deus/Maing, somehow. Most likely the residents of Lost Jerusalem will discover her dilapidated body and collect data about humanity's past/future. Abel will become Kim/Lacan/Grahf/Fei/Id and either Nephilim or Mary become Elly. Chaos will probably be the Wave Existance. I don't know what will happen to the people on the Elsa, my guess is they'll never find Lost Jerusalem.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I was looking on Wikipedia about Xenogears, stumbled across this:

Spoiler:

Abel - As a young boy living in the Cosmic War era, Abel came into contact with Zohar when he accidentally stumbled upon a facility housing a Deus/Zohar connection experiment. The Wave Existence gave Abel its power so one day he could destroy Zohar, which would free the Existence to ascend back to the higher dimension. Abel had been searching for his mother when he made contact, and his desire to be with her imparted the Existence with a mother's will when he made contact. It constructed a woman using the biological computer Kadomony, a component of the Deus system, to be with Abel, but Deus transformed the woman into the original Miang. Abel was the only human survivor of the Eldridge crash. Together with Elhaym, or Elly as he had come to call her he lived during the first years of life on the Xenogears planet. When Cain, Miang and the Gazel Ministry began laying down the foundations of what would be all their various control mechanisms in the developing human culture, Abel and Elly, now grown adults stepped forward and challenged them. Abel, having known the real truth of the matter and being the only true human on the planet was able to see through Cain's lies and called him on them in front of the whole world. Cain responded by murdering both him and Elly, however they would return eventually. Both Abel and Elly were continuously reincarnated through the Zohar until 9999 years later when Fei Fong Wong and Elhaym Van Houten were born. Fei is the last incarnation of Abel and the -Contact- who breaks Deus' hold on humanity and frees the Wave Existence.

Now I'm starting to see the connection between stories, but can anyone clarify?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Guest

Spoiler:

I'm going to go with an old theory in that KOS-MOS becomes Deus/Maing, somehow.

Spoiler:

I was under the impression that the Omega System is Deus, almost exactly. Zohar-powered, Merkabah as the chariot, the 4 coloured spheres, Omega's mutated self looking exactly like final-boss Deus. It was created to end the war, blew up a planet, etc. just like it says in Perfect Works. The Y-Data being the Raziel dealy that your party descovers on the Eldridge ruins. Since it never left Abel's Ark, it still remains capable of waking up and beginning the storyline of Xenogears.

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Spoiler:

That's also true about the Omegas System being Deus. It makes more sense than KOS-MOS being Deus to be honest. But IIRC wasn't Maing part of Deus? She was the system's fail-safe, as The Mother. Maing is the woman we see after the Eldridge crashed on the Xenogears planet [Lost Jerusalem], she was 'activated' by Deus at the time of its destruction. Her mission as The Mother was to give birth to more humans that would later be used to rebuild Merkaba/Deus. I can definitely see T-Elos being Maing because they have the same type of personality and unlike KOS-MOS, T-Elos is made of flesh and blood, Mary's flesh and blood. When KOS-MOS absorbed T-Elos and awakened, she may have acquired her genetic make up. But If KOS-MOS became real flesh and blood I don't understand how her body could survive in space, so thats a different story. I'm willing to bet that somehow KOS-MOS will be The Mother in the next game. And for the love of God please let there be a next game!

Also heres another idea.

Spoiler:

Actually, The Real Mother wasn't Maing, it was Maing and Elly combined. This happened close to the ending of Xenogears when Ramsus killed Maing, she transmigrated into Elly and The Real Mother awakened. I just had another idea, what if KOS-MOS's 'awakened' personality [KOS-MOS Quote: I am Mary, but at the same time, I am not Mary] becomes Elly and the part of T-Elos she absorbed becomes Maing? So if T-Elos becomes Maing, Mary becomes Elly, that leaves Nephilim to become either The Wave Existance or something else. If she's The Wave Existance, chaos would be another mystery character. The Testaments would also be perfect for the Gazel Ministry, but since theres only one of them left.. Theres so many directions Monolith can go with this.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Ok I just started playing this today... I thought the beginning was kind of slow and boring... but I'm going to keep playing to see if it gets me interested like Episode 1 and 2 did.... I just feel it's a step forward with the battle engine and a step back with the amount of gameplay I'm not getting right now...

And that first dungeon you go through is absolutely poorly deisnged... way too much pointless walking around with too few enemies....

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

A question out there, I am not going to be able to get/play the game for awhile, but after seeing it come out, before I get it, will someone please answer one question for me?

Spoiler:

Will someone tell me what happens to Albedo in episode III? Ever since the scene in Episode I where he kidnaps MOMO and does the entire laughing-while-ripping-my-head-off thing, and the final scenes of Episode II, I really began to like the guy above all other characters save Chaos...

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This should clarify shit for you people trying to figure out if there is a direct connection between the two stories.

Which there isn't.

Spoiler:

You guys do realize that Saga and gears are not releated, right? This has been said time and time again. By the series creators, even. Jin is NOT Citan, chaos is definitely not the Wave Existance, KOS-MOS is not Miang, Deus is not Omega.

KOS-MOS as Miang has more problems with it than you can imagine. Miang was created after the Eldridge crash, and was a daughter of the first mother, created by Deus's Kadamony system. KOS-MOS being Miang makes little to no sense whatsoever. KOS-MOS doesn't actually fit into the Gears timeline whatsoever, actually. There is no character you can really compare her to.

chaos is in no way the Wave Existance. U-DO is. chaos is the physical representation of Anima, remember? The ending and database went over this if you were paying attention.

Abel is also not the same Abel from Gears. Abel here in Saga is a manifestation of U-DO, the wave existance. Abel in gears came into contact with the Wave Existance and it gave him the ability to destroy to the Zohar (in which the Wave Existance was trapped). So Abel is a Contact in Gears, while here is he actually a manifestation of U-DO as an observer. So no, not the same Abel. ABel just looks that was as, *gasp* fanservice. Just like Jin.

Lost Jerusalem is also not the Gears planet. This makes no sense.

Neph and (And definetely not Mary. Dunno why you even mention her) can't be Elly either. The first Elly was born to the original Mother, along with Cain and the Gazel Ministry. Abel (the only human survivor the Eldridge crash who wasn't given birth to by Kadamony) and Elly were killed by Cain and the Ministry after they defied them. They were given recurring lives though so they could eventualyl free the Wave Existance. Neph's appearance is merely done as a nod to gears fans.

Jin just looks like Citan as a nod to Gears fans. Just like the four spheres thing in the Ark was a nod to the end of Gears, and how each of the bosses in those spheres looked like an Omnigear. Michtam, Abel, Neph's transition at the end there. It's neat to speculate but it's not the same timeline. It's a rough retelling of the events of Episode 1, sure. But it's not the same and it would NEVER lead to Gears without some serious rewriting going on.

Deus is a bloody biological weapon. He's not a "Relic of God" like the Omega System was. Deus has a core called Omega-1 and was powered by the Zohar, this is truth. Merkava was a component of Deus though. The container/superweapon part. It's just a name thing here. Omega and Deus are not the same system. Similar broad activites but the specifics don't match.

Razael's Tree makes the most sense of all the comparisons made above. The Y-Data is not really "the knowledge of everything" that was found in Mahanon in Gears. The Tree was basically used as a device to let everyone know what Deus was about in Gears. He wasn't God, he was using people for spare parts. The Y-Data contains stuff like the location of Lost Jerrsulem and stuff, and I suppose the Tree would have that in there if people knew where it was at that time (unlikely), but it's not the same thing. The Y-Data has no mention of Deus because the Deus system does not exist in Saga. So no. That doesn't match up EITHER.

Holy crap that was long. Hopefully everyone understands now that they aren't connected though, that there will be NO WAY to connect them using the current stories of both games, and that the stuff in Saga that's rather obvious (like the character designs) is just fanservice. Jin doesn't reincarnate as Hyuga, sorry. As cool as that sounds, it's a no go.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Huh...that's pretty interesting. So Xenosaga's story might have a chance to continue after all! I'm keepin' my fingers crossed.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Oh, it was left open ended enough that it could go on. I just don't think it'll turn into Xenogears if it does. Besides the immense amount of rewriting that has to happen and the rather large time gap that has to be covered, Monolith wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

And, to be honest:

Spoiler:

I'd rather have the series end on this extremely high note. We don't need to know what happens what happens to Shion and crew. It's an extremely poignant ending as is. I'd much rather be left with the pleasant feelings and thoughts that they might make it to Lost Jerusalem instead of actually having more bad stuff happening to them. This was a fantastic ending, and I think that if they did write another chapter after this, it would have to be extremely well done to not lessen the emotional impact we got from this episodes ending sequence.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Fair enough, Mr. Skills It's just fun trying to put pieces together, even if they don't fit.

Yeah, lots of re-writing would have to occur, but you do have to wonder what exactly they were going to go for in a 6-episode Xenosaga rather than what we got in 3.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Spoiler:

I started to believed that, as was mentioned above, that Xenosaga and Xenogears were never designed to be part of the same story, but the ending of xenosaga III really screws things up.

To many dialogues ended with the hope that "oh, we will find/see each other again!". While I could just take this as filler for a happy ending, it's desturbingly open ended. Add to this the fact that a large part of Shion's gang is still around and looking for Earth AND Kos-Mos/Chaos still exist. While the plot did wrap up, there are many questions left to be answered.

These questions are obviously left there to be a spark point for any future iteration of the mythos of Xenosaga to be continued. But I wish they had just ended everything! That would have been the final stake in the coffin of all the Xenosaga references being more then Fanservice!

God, now we can't say anything at all because there is more to be told. >_<

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Vash

Huh...that's pretty interesting. So Xenosaga's story might have a chance to continue after all! I'm keepin' my fingers crossed.

I believe they have to see how sales do for episode 3. And, if they do end up making any sort of sequel, it won't be "Xenosaga".
At first, there were supposed to be 6 episodes, but with the horrible review of episode 2, and the fact that the budget and time limit were severely overdue, I guess they decided to only make 3 episodes.

It doesn't make sense, though. The ending of episode 3 still left so many questions unanswered. Besides that, all the talk about "seeing eachother again" kind of left it open for another game.

The one thing that really bothered me about this game was how much they shoved into it in so little time. Granted, I love this game more than the previous 2, I just feel like things were rushed, especially at the end.
I had the same problem with episode 2. Why on earth is it 2 discs long when you could seriously beat that game in 1 day (if you didn't complete the sidequests, anyway)?

I just don't feel like they delved into the past of some of the key characters enough. Shion, yes. Jr, yes. Momo, yes.
But chaos, Mary, and Ziggy all got the shit end of the stick. I realize why they're important but you never got enough of their past lives.
Especially chaos.
You only got to see him in that one scene

Spoiler:

where hes with Mary in the past listening to the messiah/Jesus speak before crucifiction

Furthermore, they lead you to believe that chaos IS Jesus because his real name is Yeshua.

Seriously, as much as I loved episode 3, I'm still a little confused about everything and I wish they would've spent more time developing the characters more.

What I also find strange is how T-elos seemed really important in the very beginning, but then you only see her in one major part at the very end.

I feel like I spent a majority of this game taking on bullshit quests that did nothing to further develop the story.

I was speaking idiomatically.