Chrono Resurrection Petition

Originally Posted by Slayer X

What are you talking about? The art style is quite good as well as the lighting effects and everything else. It's not supposed to look realistic, it's supposed to look somewhat like DQ8 which is what CT was meant to look like from the beginning.

Never said anything about it being realistic, but for a company that is basically known as being one of the best modellers in the world, it's simply not even close. Sorry.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

a lurker, you have your opinions and I have mine, I think its dumb of Square to order a cease and desist over a fan game, you believe that being amatuers gives no excuse to "lousy graphics". I mean god, did you expect a fan game to suddenly look like FF13?! These guys were paying a triubute and had no intention to make profit out of it, Square told them to stop cause it happens to look better than some dumb sprite fan game. Its disrespectful to fans, but hey, coporates don't care about the public, they care about money and control.

I understand copyright, my objections were simply moral, the company can use some actual creative work and variety, if you wanna milk stuff, at least milk most of your franchises so at least we get variety. Letting it sit there accompishes nothing, why not sell it off, then maybe the Chrono team will get together and try to buy it. But no, why let go of a potential franchise that they can milk off by making mediocre squels?

I know in real life, Square is entitled to do so, I just think it was dumb to do that to a FAN GAME. Why not have cease and desist orders to every fan game and fan art there is out there? They own the designs of the characters, so people shouldn't make art out of it should they? Send a letter to newgrounds perhaps?

Sheesh, way to spiral my opinions out of control and insult my intelligence. I rather see a bunch of guys paying tribute (NOTE TRIBUTE, not ROB) and make a nice little fan game or movie out of Chrono Trigger, as quaint is it may be compare to a full blown company's work, then see a company that lets its copyright sit there and rust. Perhaps I jumped the gun with saying hiring them to make a Chrono remake, but I wouldn't have suggested that if Square was doing something with the franchise, be it a port, remake, or a sequel.

Of course, we know that most of Chrono's staff has left, hence why there's no new game, I wonder who's fault that is though, the talent, or the corp? I say its the latter.

I enjoyed certain works from SE, and their graphics are always top notch, but as a company, they sure dunno how to handle their work, franchises or staff right. Why do you think Xeno and Chrono's team, along with Hironobu Sakaguchi himself, left SE? If they are such a awesome company that respects their works and staff, why did they left?

Oh and regarding profile, it was an Enix game, and it did well in Japan and Asia, hence a prequel. VP2 was a top selling game, along with the PSP port of VP1. So yes, its all about profit, but at least this game has quality.

I'm sorry if people don't agree with me, but at least you can stop insulting me. That's all I ask, you all have valid points and I understood them fully, and I am not ignorant as to not know how copyright works,but just cause its protected by law doesn't mean they truly deserved it. By rights the creator of CT should own the rights, in fact by rights, all creators should own copyright to their creations, but that's not how the real world of coporal control works. Hence my objection that Square doesn't deserve alot of their copyrights they're holding on like dolls they stop playing with. You may not agree, I just hope you at least see my point here.

Square didn't create Chrono, the development team did, not the corporal execs who now own the copyright.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

About inner conflict...I would say there was conflict at Square even during the making of CC. Just look at how different a game it is from CT...I picture a scenario where the creative team for CC was glad the Enix guys were out of the way, so they could make their vision of what the franchise should be (which would explain the existence of Radical Dreamers, possibly as a low budget side project). Of course, I hear CC sold poorly for such a high-profile game, so that might be a factor as well. I don't know...CT was fine and I wasn't happy with CC's way of "expanding" the franchise and really teasing people about the CT relationship. If we were ever to see a sequel, I'd prefer it to be more in the direct vein of CT. Plus time traveling is much more interesting than parallel worlds I can barely tell the difference in...

As for Resurrection...I understand the paranoid corporate mentality, but it does seem a bit extreme shutting down a non-profit fan project. Especially compared to the doujin scene in Japan, which frequently uses licensed characters in games/albums/hentai and actually sells them (and probably make good money off them too). I was looking forward to seeing what became of it, but I can live without it just the same.

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Originally Posted by Kairi Li

you believe that being amatuers gives no excuse to "lousy graphics". I mean god, did you expect a fan game to suddenly look like FF13?!

If they're going to do Square's work for them, well then, yes.

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I understand copyright, my objections were simply moral,

You keep saying you understand copyright but you keep demonstrating a lack of basic knowlege. I mean case in point, you are morally offended by Square protecting their copyright. Most people, in contrast, are morally offended by rape or murder. What point is having an opinion if you can't even find the right words to defend it?

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Why not have cease and desist orders to every fan game and fan art there is out there? They own the designs of the characters, so people shouldn't make art out of it should they? Send a letter to newgrounds perhaps?

They are 100% entitled to do that. Disney cracks down hardcore on people who make fanart of their work, although I'm absolutely certain you have a nice fat directory of the stuff. What's your point, here?

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I rather see a bunch of guys paying tribute (NOTE TRIBUTE, not ROB)

Just one more quicky: is child Janus x Ozzy porn more tribute, or robbery? Yes, this is absolutely on point.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Kairi, how difficult can it possibly be to understand that Square funds alternative series on the profits generated by established series? CT, XG, FFT, VP, FM, ToF, VS, are all low-selling, high-risk titles created out of the money the cash cows of their respective times generated. (CT was a surprise smash hit but afaik all of the other listed series' games have much lower sales than any FF game.) Some games they lost money on. They do that because they care about the fans who just want more of the same old and fans who want something radically different. Companies that ignore either die.

Enix was rather more conservative in their new franchise creation before merging, but that's the past. (And it still spawned some gems.)

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Why do you think Xeno and Chrono's team, along with Hironobu Sakaguchi himself, left SE?

Pepole move on. Do you want to be stuck at one company working on one franchise forever? Would you turn down offers of more money from others, or a chance to start your own studio, to stay in your little world churning out chrono games for the masses? (Assuming you were remotely creative, which doesn't seem to be the case here.)

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Originally Posted by koifox

Enix was rather more conservative in their new franchise creation before being bought

ok someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it on the contrary, that it was Squaresoft force to merge with Enix to survive the financial crisis cause by the movie Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within?

so in all it was kind of Enix that "bought" Squaresoft but it still seem like it's still Square that have the "leadership" in this deal.

I'm not sure about this but that's what I read about the merge of those 2 company...

FELIPE NO

I'm still having a difficult time understanding your point, Kairi. Maybe you can elaborate a little for me.

You're making it clear that you think the milking of FF7 is morally wrong, but you want the same thing to happen to Chrono Trigger, I guess, because otherwise you wouldn't be so morally against their lack of work on the series. Why?

You talk about wanting variety but you act like the only thing SE works on is Final Fantasy, and that's obviously not true. No, being able to fight an increasingly-avian Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts doesn't count as it being a final fantasy game. I mean, ignoring the whole part about SE being only one game developer here, there are plenty of fish in their sea. You keep ignoring them because they are detrimental to your point, that's all.

You seem to think that the people who are credited in Chrono Trigger are the only ones who are morally deserving of the copyright to the series, while you also seem to think they would be perfectly happy to see their characters rendered in such ugly 3d glory. What's up with that? Furthermore, you seem to think that just because it was a fan project, it was okay, nevermind the quality of the piece. Have you ever thought about how high-profile a project has to get before a foreign company takes notice? I don't think you really thought about that.

You talk about Square being disrespectful to its fans for not giving them what they want (more Chrono Trigger), but then you talk about Square being money-grubbing by milking a series (in this case, Final Fantasy 7, which I guess you weren't around for when people were begging for more). Do you honestly not see the disconnect here?

I mean really, none of this makes sense, lady.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Why am I against FF7's milking? Cause its way over the limit! You got the original, a movie, a shooting game, a PSP game, and a cell phone game, all this is devoted to a single game franchise. Meanwhile, other works had been sitting in the dust, why did the Chrono Break trademark ended before all this was announced? What's the point of keeping Xenogear's lisence if you do nothing with it? I'm pretty sure the Xeno crew who left would love to work on the rest of the series.

And I know Square had some titles out, like Front Mission, there's the DS mana game, some Itdaki street stuff,(VP2 is coming as well, but that's a enix game) but aside from the mana game, none of these reached other countries. While its great to see them doing something with Mana, I also have to wonder why there's a lack of news with the PS2 mana game and more news concerning the FF games. I mean we learn about FF13 from E3, but nothing on Mana the game they supposdly are working on?

And are you saying that this fan game was a high profile game? This game simply got spread around fans cause they found it impressive for a fan game, it's not exactly a high profile game, then SE took notice and told them to stop, cause it looks better than the average sprite fan game. I mean, why else would they tell them to stop? If they really want to stop all fan games, they would also go to places like newgrounds or something. I doubt the creators will send a cease and desist over a fan game made by a bunch of guys who went through the trouble doing it for free, just to show how they were fans of the game. Just because you think it looks ugly (its a fan game made by amatuers, I mean god,were you good at something when you just started?) doesn't mean other thinks so, it got reported in various games magazines and spread around the net for a reason. The creators are not controlling coporal minds, I doubt they will suddenly get insulted by people making a fan game out of it.

Why wouldn't it be okay for the game to look less impressive compare to real big company games out there when its made by fans? These guys are still learning,and they thought trying to render Trigger in 3D is good practice, you may not think so cause it looks nothing like the pro games out there, but I think its quite impressive for a bunch of guys who were new at this. And even some smaller game companies has less impressive graphics, along with the crap kid games based on cartoons. This game looks far better than those.

As a company, Square use to show a variety of franchises, but ever since Advent Children, they have been focusing on milking this one franchise, since it made sales cause of the label FF7, they are gonna do it again with FF13. It's only a matter of time before they stop work at all the other franchises just to cater to FF. I mean Nomura even said he can't work on the next KH title till FFVS13 is done.

This just shows a decline in variety of orignal work, I mean how would you feel if Konami only made MGS games, or Capcom just made RE games? All Square cares about is profit, while other companies are concern with original titles, variety in the products they make and profit. Capcom didn't rely just on old titles, they also made new ones that started their own franchise ( Veiwtiful Joe). All Square is doing now is making sure they keep using the FF label. As a company, Square has declined to a lower level by being one track minds about FF, and the fans who gobble up whatever crap they made (DoC) fuel this. The worst part is FF7 wasn't even the best RPG there was, it was just more famous cause of its revolutionary graphics, which cause SE to focus on the look of the games. (And we all know graphics isn't everything). So they need cashcows to get more money, if you're gonna do that, at least make it GOOD (DoC was crap, AC was cool but had no substance.) When Capcom and MGS milk their cashcows, they still made solid games. Square didn't, only concerend about profit and milking the label of FF, and not the quality of FF. Now thanks to FF7 they made more money, what do they do? Make a FF13 compliation. What happened to Chrono Break? Where are the news for PS2 Mana game at E3?

Bottom line, Square has over milked a franchises that doesn't nessacry deserve it,(fans wanted it yes, but can you say overkill?) they are putting aside alot of other games (KH3) for the next gen FF, they overeact with their controlling coporate minds over a fan game that will not hurt them as a company,(Do you honestly think that Trigger's reputation will drop cause of this? In fact, people will be impressed they went this far to show how much they like it, most people just draw fanart) and they lack variety in their own franchises,(Square's franchises, not Enix, just cause they merged doesn't mean they interfere with each other's works) and holding to them like dolls they no longer want to play with, but keep them anyway cause they want control. Meanwhile, the creators themselve left this company, why leave? After all they seem to be doing so well back then, or maybe Square isn't as nice as one thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if their controlling also extends to its staff. And when they left, the copyright remains with Square, even if they want to keep creating it (Xeno's staff would have made more xeno games, but Square pushed them at the end of production, ruined disk 2, they left, and they weren't allow to take Xenogears with them, Square just hold on to it like Toys they wont play with anymore, cause they can say we made this, its ours, when it really isn't)

I doubt their leaving was just simply to move on, maybe Square was never a great company to work with, I mean god, no one wanted to work with Disney when Eisner was in charge, I'm getting the same vibe here from Square. Square used to bne about creations, now its all about coporal control.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

Why am I against FF7's milking? Cause its way over the limit!

Why do you want them do the same with Chrono Trigger, then?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Why do you want them do the same with Chrono Trigger, then?

Making a new game is not over milking. Jesus. Stop putting words in my mouth. Is RE4 overmilking the RE franchise? Of course not, its a game sequel and it was a solid game.

Making a movie, a PSP game, a cell phone game, a Shooting game on a set of pre existing characters, world and setting, IS overmilking, especially coming from a series where the "sequels" are not straight sequels, but new games. All the above is called OVERKILL. Not to mention stuff like DoC was mediocre, and AC looked cool but had no depth and real plot, it was fanservice. If you're gonna milk something, at least put effort into its quality, not just the looks.

FFX had a sequel, but it was just one, so it wasn't over milking. FF7 has 5, counting the new DoC cell phone game. I also will hate it if they did the samething to Chrono as they did with FF7.

I want them to create a new installement to Chrono, a solid game, NOT a mediocre game with the only purpose is profit and fanservice to gain that profit.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

And are you saying that this fan game was a high profile game? This game simply got spread around fans cause they found it impressive for a fan game, it's not exactly a high profile game,

[...]

it got reported in various games magazines

What do you think high profile means?

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words

You know, you posted like four pages of solid text on how you don't understand the first thing about business, but you never did get back to me regarding Ozzy's engorged member entering Janus' tight little butthole. Is that tribute or robbery? It is absolutely on topic.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

There's doujinshi for every game out there, if the companies haven't done anything about it, it means they don't care. Why should they care about a fan game then? And its not like doujinshi has done any actual harm to the game's reputation, you might as well ban all game and anime hentai while you're at it, and we all know that will never happen. And as I last recall, doujinshis are non profit and are pefectly legal and fans have a right to express their fandon, not everyone has to like it though. I mean if it was illegal, then it certainly would have stopped right now, right?

The game may have gotten alot of exposure, but its still a fan game made by amatuers, it just so happens to get more well known than most fan games. Why are you asking so much from a bunch of fans? My comment about them working for Square was just an off the wall comment. They are fans, no one should expect them to make graphics like FF. You might as well expect all those famours internet videos to be high profile quality work, after all, they also got alot of exposure haven't they?

I understand business, I just don't agree with it, after all its possible to make solid games off franchises and also make origina titles at the same time, and the fan game cease and desist is overeacting when, like you pointed out yourself, there are other fanworks out there that use characters and put them in other more adult situations, not that they do real lasting damage. Its all coporal control that I disagree on, even though what they do is pefectly legal and within their right. They also have the right to be overeacting, which I also disagree on. I still don't see why you defend a company that likes to show how they no longer care about their work, and just wanna churn out cheap toys to get the kiddies buying it,and then overeact when someone wants to express their fandom in a non profit work. Square should be a company that makes solid games like they used to, not over milking franchises to make mediocre crap just to get mindless fanboys to buy their games, always do your best at whatever you're making, otherwise you're just another coporate that makes cheap products to get money. That's how business works, but I don't think its right.

Is it safer to go with a establish franchise? Yes. Is it within their right to overmilk it? Yes. Are they allow it to be mediocre? Yes. All these things are perfectly legal, but all it does is ruin their reputation as a company that makes solid original titles, now they are selling their label, not their work or quality, that's business, but I don't think its right.

Just because what they do is pefectly legal and withing their right doesn't mean I have to agree with it. This is all just my opinion. This whole thing is just a creativity VS buisness argument, and I'm sure it happens all the time. Now I rather want to move on from this and that we agree to disagee.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

There's doujinshi

Stop now. You're going into a very important territory and you have no idea you're doing it. Doujinshi is created in Japan, under Japanese copyright law. This fan game was created in the United States, under American copyright law. These are not equal. I recommend that you do a little bit of studying on copyright law for both the United States and Japan before you continue.

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And its not like doujinshi has done any actual harm to the game's reputation, you might as well ban all game and anime hentai while you're at it, and we all know that will never happen.

It still remains; is Magus' terrible childhood anal rape a fan tribute, or outright robbery?

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The game may have gotten alot of exposure,

So it's high-profile then?

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I understand business,

Who do you think you're convincing?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

Is RE4 overmilking the RE franchise? Of course not, its a game sequel and it was a solid game.

You know, I heard there's this game called Chrono Cross, which was apparently a sequel to Chrono Trigger. It sold relatively well and was a pretty solid game. So how is RE4 coming into the picture here exactly?

It's exactly the same deal. The styles are different, but they're still sequels.

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

Making a movie, a PSP game, a cell phone game, a Shooting game on a set of pre existing characters, world and setting, IS overmilking, especially coming from a series where the "sequels" are not straight sequels, but new games. All the above is called OVERKILL. Not to mention stuff like DoC was mediocre, and AC looked cool but had no depth and real plot, it was fanservice. If you're gonna milk something, at least put effort into its quality, not just the looks.

My bullshit detector's doing 360's right now. You realize that almost every company is going to do this once their characters have attention? SUP NINTENDO. They seem to be doing pretty well though. And because of the fans, their demands become tighter, and especially with FF7's situation; so tight that any effort to make a sequel-type game won't impress them.

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

FFX had a sequel, but it was just one, so it wasn't over milking. FF7 has 5, counting the new DoC cell phone game. I also will hate it if they did the samething to Chrono as they did with FF7.

Like I said, Chrono has had a sequel. It was just one. It wasn't milking. It didn't please fans half as much as the original because they're so fucking picky about how the next one would be that it's damn near impossible to make one. The same applied to FFX-2.

Except FFX-2 was full of fanservice and attention whoring (literally).



->



(Irrelevant: The first picture looks alot like Quistis, damn.)

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

I want them to create a new installement to Chrono, a solid game, NOT a mediocre game with the only purpose is profit and fanservice to gain that profit.

You mean like FFX-2?

Let's say for a minute that this happens. Let's say that because of someone in Hong Kong, they end up making a(nother) sequel to Chrono Trigger. You won't be pleased. You won't be satisfied. There's always going to be something wrong with a sequel because it can't meet everyone's requirements. And if there were ever a sequel, it would be off Cross, not Trigger.

I'm willing to bet that making another sequel based off an original title, when there's clearly a sequel already, would be milking and/or fanservice. Sequels exist for a reason, and making a sequel (WHEN THERE CLEARLY IS ONE ALREADY) to a game that doesn't need one, simply because fans and people like you want one, would be fanservice.

And this thread is about a project using the Unreal engine in an american location without permission, which isn't a sequel (like you're wanting) but a remake. So what the hell are you talking about?

I also suggest clicking here and telling us how a sequel would work.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

Square Enix is not gonna listen, considering they don't have much respect for fans, cause if they do, they would have made Chrono Break right now and try to get the Xenogears crew back together. The fact that they mailed them a cease and desist letter is not cause they care about fans paying tribute that can cause copyright infringement, they just want total control of franchises they don't deserve to keep copyright of, they could have easily hired them at low costs and let them keep making the game, but they didn't.SE has alot of frachises that they chose to ignore cause of FF. Please, name me a game that is NOT FF that was a top selling game internationally recently.(KH2 doesn't count, its got FF characters and its part Disney, I'm talking about ORIGINALfranchises).

Frankly I hate Square's attitude as a company, no other game company has ever shown such disregard to it's own franchises and fans. All they care about now is profit and milking off FF. Look at Capcom, they care about fans across the world, even Asian fans ( I love the fact that the Asian HK version of RE4 was the USA version, but ported to a JP PS2 system.) and not just fans in the US. Hideo Kojima has a online blog with videos, which includes english versions. Now compare all this with Square.

"no other game company has ever shown such disregard to it's own franchises and fans."

Thats a lie...

~Sega~

Fans : Can we have Shenmue III?
Sega : No... enjoy new refreshing Shenmue Online for PC
Fans : What.. but what about the story?
Sega : Story will be played out online... once the update patches arrive!!!
Fans : But it worked better as a single player game
Sega : About that... we threw out the fighting engine and added a point and click attack like WOW!!! It worked for them!!!
Fans : WTF is this game?!?!
Sega : New refreshing Shenmue Online!!!

Fans : What about Sonic?
Sega : We added more annoying sidekicks for you to play as!!!
Fans : Uh What?
Sega : Yes now you can help Knuckles search for pieces of the master emerald... only this time we increased the pieces per level to 40...

ok it's almost that bad... but yeah... these petitions don't work... and Chrono Cross was a sequel... sort of... I don't get why Chrono was in the title considering you only jump back in time once... it's like Quantum Leap not being about time travel and instead a 50 episodes before any time travel happens...

Anyhow Square won't make a new Chrono game for the same reason Sega won't make a Shenmue III (they can prove me wrong... I'm waiting) and that is simply because : They are lazy and want to go with what will not just sell a million copies but will sell millions of copies...

Squenix hides behind Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts and Sega hides behind Sonic games... because none of their new games have been the same quality as the titles they released for Dreamcast... and Sonic is a guarenteed seller despite last years gameplay mechanics and bad camera angles and level design.

Maybe if Squenix does make a sequel they can do what Tri-Ace did with Star Ocean : Till the End of Time... and by that I mean make sense of the non-sense introduced in the series by the second game... :doh:

How ya doing, buddy?

I signed the petition simply because of my love for Chrono Trigger. I didn't know at the time that the trailer was just for the most memorable scenes in the game, but whatever. While I think a remake of the game would be a nice walk down memory lane for the people who enjoyed the original, I would prefer a new installment into the series. I think square should hold off on pushing out anymore FF titles for a little bit, and work on a new Chrono title.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Free.User

So are you saying that this project may even have a slight chance if Square-Enix sees a bunch of E-signatures?

If the # of requests = the # of copies of FF7 sold worldwide, there is a chance... for them it'd be a way to see how well the game would sell should a similar remake produced by S-E be released.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by yangxu

If the # of requests = the # of copies of FF7 sold worldwide, there is a chance... for them it'd be a way to see how well the game would sell should a similar remake produced by S-E be released.

what is that number anyways? I think I heard 7 mil.


BOT: I just don't concider cc a sequeal to ct. wile the first was a great game with a great storyline and battle system cc had none of that. They should have taken ct's battle system and improved upon it insted of makeing what they did.


I think they stoped the game because it would have been a better game then the crap they called crono cross.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.