Gordian Knot: Encoding

Ugh...still having 2 problems with Gordian Knot while trying to encode:



All the "movement" has these horizontal lines. I see it once I have the d2v file. I'm told that I might fix it after it encodes...apparently that's the only way to see if it's fixed.

Second, my files are like 300MB. And they're not even 640x480 resolution. I'm seeing wonderful quality MKVs all over at 150-200MB with better resolution and no horizontal line garbage. What gives? :\

The doom9 people basically said "Mess around with your different encoding settings until it works" and "Well, better quality means bigger files." Trust me, if you saw the 150MB copy of the show, you could hardly see it without zooming...

Thanks in advance, Gaminglol

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Your source material is probably interlaced, so you need to either deinterlace the picture before encoding or just discard every other line. I never used Gordian Knot, but this is essentially what you need to do in order to get rid of the horizontal lines. If Gordian Knot is any good, it should support these things.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Hrmm. I'll check into that...but would you care to share the name(s) of software you use?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Use MeGUI. You can make MKV, AVI or MP4 (mp4 is my preference). It is easy to use, free, and just plain kicks ass. It has a deinterlace analyzer that will figure out whether to deint or not. I use MeGUI to encode my mp4 files, not Apple's Compressor on my MacBook Pro, cause it does the job faster, better, and with more options and control.

BTW, the reason that other files are smaller and higher quality is because they are using newer codecs and compressions. Most MKVer's use the AC3 file with x264 to get great quality with small size. Give x264 and MeGUI a try. You won't be displeased.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I was using x264 though... :\ I'll give MeGUI a try.

I was speaking idiomatically.

x264 does have many different builds, since MeGUI updates automatically, it will get you the best, latest, and most stable build available. I noticed increase in quality when I upgraded to the newest builds.

Also, Gordian Knot uses VFW (Video for windows) rendering which is inferior and not as high quality as CLI rendering which MeGUI uses. This alone will give you better encodes, especially when you are compressing to the sizes you are shooting for.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Well I gave it a shot. I've got the size down to 220MB...but the quality is crap. On top of that, it seems my subtitles didn't add to it..and it added TWO copies of the audio tracks.

I'll recopy the VOBs with DVD Decrypter and give it another shot, AVS and D2V and all through MeGUI. :\

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Dayvon

Also, Gordian Knot uses VFW (Video for windows) rendering which is inferior and not as high quality as CLI rendering which MeGUI uses. This alone will give you better encodes, especially when you are compressing to the sizes you are shooting for.

That's just plain wrong. There are different interfaces for video encoding and decoding. These are VfW, DirectShow and 'direct' (VideoLAN or mplayer, which have all the codecs integrated). And every interface does interface with the same code, if the x264 version if the same.
The only thing you get is a boost of performance when using MeGUI because you don't have th VfW/DirectShow overhead when compressing. Also MeGUI does better container handling.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

So very close.....for some reason, MeGUI isn't installing my subtitles that I'm trying to add. It encoded the audio and video just fine and claims to have added the subtitles...but in MPC's or in VobSub's options....enabling the subtitles doesn't seem to help.

Got a suggestion for another way to mux the subtitles? :\ So close.

EDIT: Nevermind..it seems SubRip opens the VOB and only is reading the theme's text....but when I add it to the video, MPC and VobSub are both showing the subtitles....no mention of the subs in the rest of the show (This is anime I'm trying to encode)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

What container are you using? There are great tools for both matroska and mpeg4. Try mkvtoolnix for matroska and MP4Box for mpeg4. And leave the subs out at first and add them later using that tools.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

That's just plain wrong. There are different interfaces for video encoding and decoding. These are VfW, DirectShow and 'direct' (VideoLAN or mplayer, which have all the codecs integrated). And every interface does interface with the same code, if the x264 version if the same.
The only thing you get is a boost of performance when using MeGUI because you don't have th VfW/DirectShow overhead when compressing. Also MeGUI does better container handling.

VfW IS inferior though, especially in how it handles b-frames. I haven't read up on it for a while, so I cant explain more.

@ Lukage

If your using MP4 container, there is no "way" right now to insert subs except through a brand new VobSub MP4 hack, or using something that Nero 7 has. Search for VobSubs and mp4box at Doom9 forum, and it will give you the thread about it.

Also, what x264 settings have you been using to encode with? I'd love to try and help get you a bit more quality out of your files. Lemme know.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'll try mkvtoolnix...but I know I got the subs to work once before.

(I have the working one...with crap quality...and the nice quality....with no subs)

I'll post a download link tonight if you want to see what quality I'm getting out of the DVD rips.

Just a FYI, too, this first DVD I'm testing proves to be special:
Progressive Sections: 4
Interlaced Sections: 5
Partially Static Sections: 112
Film Sections: 30
Source is declared hybrid film/ntsc. Majority is film.
Source is declared tff by a margin of 29 to 0.

EDIT: Using x264 on MKVs.

Double Post:
Ahh, yeah, forgot about mkvmerge. Gracias!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

If the source is "film" you might try to force film mode in DGIndex, and see if that helps with the DeInterlacing. Also, if you have to deinterlace, you will get poorer quality and slower encode times.

You are selecting vobsub file to import into the MKV via MeGUI?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Dayvon

If the source is "film" you might try to force film mode in DGIndex, and see if that helps with the DeInterlacing. Also, if you have to deinterlace, you will get poorer quality and slower encode times.

You are selecting vobsub file to import into the MKV via MeGUI?

Yes, but VobSub only does one format. SubRip, however, can do conversions.

I was able to fix it last night with mkvmerge. I always had the "Force Film at 95%" checked for encoding, but it never seemed to work. It looks like when I try to make the AVS script in GKnot, I'm foobared. Any clue how to take care of this in GKnot?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Take care of "forcing film" in Gknot?

I don't really understand, so if you re-ask this with more info that would be great. But my advice (if you aren't doing this already) is to use DGIndex seperately from GKnot or MeGUI. If you are going for the best quality, making sure your d2v is perfect is worth the time to open up a different program. In DGIndex, you can preview in a very raw way, and see what sections are interlaced (if at all) and see if it is film. You also set whether DGIndex forces film. Make your d2v in DGIndex, and then read the d2v file with MeGUI's AVS script creator. Set the crop/resize/anamorphic settings and add any other scripts you want and save the AVS file.Then choose a video encoding preset for the quality you want, get your audiio side ready, click autoencode, choose your file size, select your vobsubs, and que it up.

FELIPE NO

I don't recall any mention of interlacing in DGIndex. I mean, I check "forced film" but it flips between Interlaced and film (see post 12) during playback.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Dayvon

VfW IS inferior though, especially in how it handles b-frames. I haven't read up on it for a while, so I cant explain more.

Nope, you're wrong again. The problem is the AVI format. If you're using VfW to output to AVI then you get problem with b-frames. But VfW is not limited to AVI-output, you can also output the raw MPEG4 ASP stream (when encoding with say DivX, XviD, etc.) and feed it into another multiplexer (like Matroska). Then you won't have any problem with b-frame support.
That's the reason why you shouldn't use AVI in the first place, it's simply outdated and broken when handling advanced codec features. I always remux to matroska after downloading an AVI file, if the input and output modules are available.

cya
liquid

Jam it back in, in the dark.

thanks for the explaination Liquid... Trying to get VFW info is hard. I always have been aware of AVIs issues, I thought that VFW and AVI were locked together. Cheers for assuming .

I myself use MP4 hoping for MP4 AVC High Profile to become popular in hardware and have all my files work. Generally I dont do downloading, but DVD backup & extended rentals .

There's nowhere I can't reach.

If your source is vfr (variable frame rate) you may wish to try Real Anime.

When source is detected as hybrid, most software will determine which framerate is more prevalent. And using force film in DGIndex will cause choppy motion in interlaced scenes.

Real Anime can retain all framerates from your source, and output into a vfr mkv.

Obviously, also handles de-interlacing. meGUI and Real Anime are pretty much the top two GUIs for x264 on www.doom9.org right now, you may want to give it a try.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Wow, I didn't even know that videos could have variable frame rates until now.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Krizzzopolis

If your source is vfr (variable frame rate) you may wish to try Real Anime.

When source is detected as hybrid, most software will determine which framerate is more prevalent. And using force film in DGIndex will cause choppy motion in interlaced scenes.

Real Anime can retain all framerates from your source, and output into a vfr mkv.

Obviously, also handles de-interlacing. meGUI and Real Anime are pretty much the top two GUIs for x264 on www.doom9.org right now, you may want to give it a try.

You are my Jesus. I'll give this a whirl tonight to see if it works, too. The fewer different apps and steps it takes, the better. I appreciate this rather interesting link that yet again, the people of doom9 have failed to mention!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Sorry... Wish I could have been more help, but I've only worked with Film DVD's, TV series, and MiniDV video stuff. Never tried to do an anime encode. When I ran encoding of Smallville from DVD, I had issues as well with interlaced/progressive sections. I found by forcing film, it solved more problems than by using "honor pull down" and having MeGUI deinterlace. But every source DVD is different.

I have heard that Real Anime is "the shit" for anime encoders. I hope it works well for ya! Good luck!

How ya doing, buddy?