The "Line"

Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel

She sees it a bit differently than going inside a room for a couple of hours on Sunday, and want's someone for who also shares this significance.

Yeah! So obviously she needs to marry somebody who ALREADY shares those feelings because LAZY!

In our next episode, Alice explains why evangelism is so important!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by of pom

So can you answer my thing about why loving a person is somehow less important than being able to go inside a room on sunday for a couple of hours?

Originally Posted by of pom

Please?

*sigh* I really wanted to stay out of this thread, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm not getting anywhere and neither is anyone else.

I never said that loving a person is less important than being able to go inside a room for a couple of hours, pom. I used...whatever it was I said...as an illustration. I just wanted the people who I felt were labeling me as racist to understand that I don't think I'm any better than any other group of people, and that in fact I found some of them quite attractive (except asians...sorry).

I guess I didn't do a very good job, though. I was trying to explain that even though I like them just fine, I wouldn't get into a situation to begin with that might lead to me falling in love with someone who - chances are - I don't have much in common with. I probably wouldn't go out with someone from another race or religion in the first place, much less get a room with them, because relationships start out with that one first date.

I feel like I'm stirring the pot here, and I don't want that. The bottom line is, I chose not to even CHANCE getting involved with someone who would likely have very a different, possibly very incompatible lifestyle from mine. I really don't see what the big deal is, anyway. It's not like we're removing a potential mate for someone from the pool of candidates or anything, since I'm already married.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Manis Tricuspis

Yeah! So obviously she needs to marry somebody who ALREADY shares those feelings because LAZY!

In our next episode, Alice explains why evangelism is so important!

Look who came out of his den, just to say hi to me.
:fish:

I think most of you are being too critical of Alice for a few reasons:

1.) Alice is from a previous generation. A lot of things have changed in 20 years. Racial, cultural, religious, and gender differences are a lot less important than in previous generations, even blurred.

2.) Most of you would 'draw the line' at dating someone who was an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, or who was a rabid pro-war Bush supporter. (And I'm not talking about flings or short-term sexual relationships ... I mean for long-term with potential of raising a family.) It's not because you're closed-minded or intolerant; it's because you have a clear idea what kind of life you want to have.

I know it's easy and fun giving Alice a hard time, because she does give us a lot of material to work with, but this issue is just lame.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Gee thanks, SS. =/

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel

1.) Alice is from a previous generation. A lot of things have changed in 20 years. Racial, cultural, religious, and gender differences are a lot less important than in previous generations, even blurred.

Alice is hardly from "a different generation." She's rather young, from what I understand. While she's only ONE generation ahead of me (I think), she has been around for mostly the same shit. She probably graduatedhigh school sometime in the 80s? Maybe 90's? Theres not a HUGE relationship gap between then and now. Don't act like she's 60, SS.

I think she's just a part of the South. ^_^ (Just laugh at that Alice. *SMILE*)

Quote:

2.) Most of you would 'draw the line' at dating someone who was an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, or who was a rabid pro-war Bush supporter. (And I'm not talking about flings or short-term sexual relationships ... I mean for long-term with potential of raising a family.) It's not because you're closed-minded or intolerant; it's because you have a clear idea what kind of life you want to have.

It really depends on each individual.

The REASONS she listed aren't the same as everyone else has. Man, if she wants to stay within her own pool of suitors which is pretty much limited to whatever she WANTS - thats her call. Apparently she thinks, its like, impossible to have a relationship work out with a Jew because of trivial, petty bullshit. Which, you know, NEVER makes sense to me personally.

And I am sure you can understand why a lot of us are in the same boat. We think it's pretty stupid, I guess. But again, she's got her own guidelines - and she's got that right dude. I know I just DONT GET IT.

Quote:

I know it's easy and fun giving Alice a hard time, because she does give us a lot of material to work with, but this issue is just lame.

Maybe you're lame. =p

Just try to understand WHY people are all over her for it. Its a matter of difference in opinion and priority. Don't act like we're the bad guys here - NONE of us are. INCLUDING Alice.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I married my cousin, although he's not a close cousin, and it's not as big a deal as people make it out to be. It's very common in many cultures to marry a relative.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here's my "line": I wouldn't date anyone of another race or religion. There are just too many cultural differences, and marriage is hard enough without all the disagreements that would arise as a result of being raised in such different environments.

The first thing I thought of when reading this was "West Virginia, Virginia, or one of the Carolinas." Boy was I correct. You guys are fucked up down there.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Spike

The first thing I thought of when reading this was "West Virginia, Virginia, or one of the Carolinas." Boy was I correct. You guys are fucked up down there.

Oddly enough, we say the same thing about people from California.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Oddly enough, we say the same thing about people from California.

Fair enough.

But I go to college here in VA (unfortunately), and everyone here talks about how they would love to move to California. Maybe that's just VA though. And how did you know I was from CA? I don't have a profile. Post history?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Alice, I'm still curious what you do about mixed breeds. Like, fine, I can pretend I get you not wanting to be in a relationship with anyone outside of your race and religion, but what do you do for people that are, say, half white and half hispanic?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I haven't actually put that much thought into it, to tell you the truth. I'm just going to be completely honest and admit that I probably wouldn't go out with them in the first place, just to be on the safe side.

Side Note: I find it interesting that people can use derrogatory terms like "mixed breeds" and that's hunky-dory, but it's not OK that not everyone wants to date outside their race. Hmmm...

To Spike: Yeah, it was your post history.

How ya doing, buddy?

How is mixed breeds derogatory? I could understand if he said "half white half nigger", but how can you describe someone of mixed genealogy without saying something that essentially means mixed? And don't try to tell me melado isn't any less derogatory, heh.

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Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I feel like I'm stirring the pot here, and I don't want that. The bottom line is, I chose not to even CHANCE getting involved with someone who would likely have very a different, possibly very incompatible lifestyle from mine. I really don't see what the big deal is, anyway. It's not like we're removing a potential mate for someone from the pool of candidates or anything, since I'm already married.

I don’t think people’s problem with you in this thread is your personal choices and how you chose to live your life, it’s more so your attitude – or at least, original attitude.

You went about the situation as though cultural barriers (which were identified by you as their race) are - in all absolute fact - a troublesome, unavoidable dilemma. Even when you attempted to escape tunnel vision and identify with other people by saying things like:

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Those kinds of differences are perfectly acceptable between friends, but in a marriage - NO WAY. If you guys want to deal with that, fine.

You’re still implying that these barriers are troublesome unavoidable dilemmas, and if people want to deal with it, than that’s okay with you.

What you either don’t understand, or aren’t really expressing very well, is that to plenty of people, the same thing you perceive as a barrier isn’t a barrier at all. That’s probably why people are arguing with you.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm half Jew and half Christian (which, oddly enough, makes neither) and I don't really see what would be deragatory about a mixed breed. I mean, it doesn't seem any worse than something like 'hybrid' which makes it sound like non-mixeds are inferior to mixeds.

Alice, how about someone who had one or two grandparents that were of a different race? Or, let's say you're going out with someone that you think is completely white, but upon meeting their parents you find out one of them isn't 'white' (a term I think is already hard enough to define)? Would you break up with them after finding out?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel

Most of you would 'draw the line' at dating someone who was an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, or who was a rabid pro-war Bush supporter.

Well, obviously everyone would draw the line somewhere, that's the whole point of the thread. Alice is getting the abuse she's getting not because she's drawn a line, but because the line basically only extends as far as she can reach without having to get up. Saying "Oh, you guys wouldn't date transsexual Branch Davidian trapeze artists, so you're all hypocrites!" kind of misses the point. Our "exclude" lists are collectively about as small as Alice's "include" list, which is why it's all so alarming to us.

She's entitled to her own preferences, obviously, but she knows by now what kind of shit will be flung at her for it and she goes and defends it anyway. It's all a bit masochistic. But she's from the past, and maybe banging your head against the wall was popular then! Along with sock-hops and doing the twist!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

I'm half Jew and half Christian (which, oddly enough, makes neither) and I don't really see what would be deragatory about a mixed breed. I mean, it doesn't seem any worse than something like 'hybrid' which makes it sound like non-mixeds are inferior to mixeds.

I just call them mudbloods.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Manis Tricuspis

Well, obviously everyone would draw the line somewhere, that's the whole point of the thread. Alice is getting the abuse she's getting not because she's drawn a line, but because the line basically only extends as far as she can reach without having to get up. Saying "Oh, you guys wouldn't date transsexual Branch Davidian trapeze artists, so you're all hypocrites!" kind of misses the point. Our "exclude" lists are collectively about as small as Alice's "include" list, which is why it's all so alarming to us.

She limited herself to White Christians.

She lives in the South. That's likely the majority demographic there, so it isn't quite as tight a limit as you claim.

[ My example was a much broader group than "transexual Branch Davidian Trapeze artists". Maybe as much as 25% of the country. ]

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel

She lives in the South. That's likely the majority demographic there, so it isn't quite as tight a limit as you claim.

We should encourage people to stay within their own religions, ethnic backgrounds, and cultures though! ABSOLUTELY.

It is a great practice! Everyone should try to follow those guidelines!

Hey Alice. What would you do if one of your kids brought home a Muslim.

(This is actually a HUGE topic in my house - I am not asking you to make fun of you. I want to see what you think of the topic.)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

See, this is where the distinction lies. I would have NO PROBLEM if my kids brought home a Muslim, a Jew, a black person, a Cherokee Indian...whatever. It may come as a huge shock to you, but I don't judge people by their race or religion, I simply chose in my own personal life to marry someone within my own ethnic and religious group.

I am in no way "advising" anyone to stay within their racial group, Sass. I'm just saying that for me personally, that's where my comfort level is. Having been married for many years, I realize that the fewer things you disagree on, especially with the "biggies" like religious practices, the more likely two people are to have a harmonious relationship.

If my children are comfortable sharing their lives with someone who has different religious beliefs, celebrates different holidays, has different values, etc., that's great and I have no problem with it. I just chose to avoid those kinds of conflicts in my marriage by sticking with people who I knew shared my beliefs.

And as I said before, I have zero problem befriending people with different religious and cultural beliefs...I just happened to have made a conscious decision not to marry someone like that.

I still don't see how this is a bad thing. =/

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

If you can get along with people of differing beliefs just fine as friends, why not as a partner too? I realise there's more involved, and you can always stop being friends with someone as you don't have kids with them etc, but friends can still grow to be pretty damn close.

I think what we consider to be bad is that you assumed when you were younger that such conflicts were very likely to arise and so indirectly are judging that these people are somehow not fit to get married to someone like you. As I have said to you in the past, people can and do adapt and aren't all fanatically pro their own culture/religion. The assumption that conflicts will definitely arise is basically erroneous.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Being friends with someone and sharing every aspect of your life with them are two different things, Ulysses. And I never said they were unfit to be married to someone like me. That's exactly what I DON'T want people to think, which is why I'm still hanging around defending myself.

Look, here's a comparison. Doctors recommend that people over the age of 40 not have children because of the risk of Down's Syndrome. Now, people over the age of 40 have perfectly normal children all the time, but that doesn't mean there isn't a more significant risk. I would personally choose not to have a child at my age because of that risk. I look at this issue the same way. Of course, not every black man sells drugs and owns a car that cost twice as much as his house and not every Jewish guy steers clear of shrimp and Christmas trees, but the risks are higher. I just chose not to chance it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I guess I didn't do a very good job, though. I was trying to explain that even though I like them just fine, I wouldn't get into a situation to begin with that might lead to me falling in love with someone who - chances are - I don't have much in common with.

To put things in perspective, it's highly unlikely you'd encounter anyone fresh off the boat, I'd bet. Any darkies you'll come across have the same "culture" as you do, unless you define culture by musical tastes.

Double Post:
also lol you married your cousin

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Regardless of the fact that it's accepted, my line draws at relatives... no matter how close or how far, if they're showing up at a family reunion, no thank you.

I can understand what Alice is saying when it comes to sharing the same background. It probably is easier and just "safer" as she puts it to marry within your same culture/group/religion/hair colour because you don't have to deal with differences. If that floats your boat, then go for it. I don't even fit in with my "culture" whatever that may be, and I hate stereotypes and hardly fall under any. Some people think that's odd, but I don't want to be just like everyone else. So saying I will only marry someone of the same race might not even be easier, especially since I don't really do some of the cultural things.

I just want someone that accepts me for who I am, and they can be from wherever, and as long as they don't constantly butt heads with me in regards to race, religion, and any other topic that irritates me, then I'm cool with it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Of course, not every black man sells drugs and owns a car that cost twice as much as his house and not every Jewish guy steers clear of shrimp and Christmas trees, but the risks are higher. I just chose not to chance it.

Wait, what?

How ya doing, buddy?

I think she is meaning, statistically-speaking...right?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I think I'm more confused with what she's chancing with a black guy. She still has yet to comprehend the fact that there very well may be no cultural differences between her and that black guy. Jew, I can sorta understand, but saying you wouldn't date someone of another race because of "cultural differences" is just blatant stereotyping.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.