Emo / Depression

I think a major problem with in our current culture is that we define anything as depressive as "emo". Thats not to say that there is nothing emo, but that its too easily utilized when someone is feeling down. "Oh, stop being emo" is kind of like telling a black person "Oh, go eat some fried chicken".

Where do you draw the line between depression and simply "emo"?

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Well, the concept of "emo" is really an irony. Angsty emo teens go around with the perspective of "oh no one understands me, boo hoo." Hence this has become a "style" or such...in which it is rather ironic for others emulate this emo style to which many teens like themselves feel that no one understands them. Yet if some teens follow this style, wouldnt they understand themselves? Hahah...odd. Think emo is just a lame style rather than depression itself.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Does anyone think it's kind of funny how all this emo shit just started "happening" to teenagers roughly around the same time that kids started having so much free time on their hands?

Now I'm not excluding my generation, by any means. I was watching The Breakfast Club just last week and if those kids weren't emo, I don't know who is. I'm just thinking that my parents probably weren't all emo and stuff because they didn't have freaking time for that kind of thing.

I can't help but think that all this teenage angst is a direct result of people having entirely too much time for self-absorption self-reflection.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I can't help but think that all this teenage angst is a direct result of people having entirely too much time for self-reflection.

You might have a point, but that's only looking at one half of the issue that I believe that Lehah is trying to raise. On this particular continuum, we have agnsty teens at one extreme end. They don't actually have any real problems, for the most part. They have, in fact, a surfeit of money, free time, and material objects. They are adopting it as a style choice, much as Devo suggested. That's one extreme. At the other end, you have people who suffer from a genuine, and debiltating depression. It has only a limited amount to do with self-reflection, or self absorbtion, and it is largely a product of that persons brain-chemistry. In short, it's an illness, much like diabetes, and it's something that the person in question does not have the power to change, without help.

There exists a vast gulf between those two extremes, in which you find angsty teenagers who actually do have significant problems, and people who have, with the aid of medical science, learned to deal with their depression, to the point that it no longer lays waste to their lives.

I can only speak of one end of the spectrum, the end that I have personal experience of. I do suffer from clinical depression, or to be more specific, a mild form of bipolar disorder. I am fortunate. I know people who are much worse off than I am. Most of the time, as long as I am conscientious in managing it, it doesn't affect me anymore, but then I am at the end of what has felt like rather a long road.

I don't feel that I could ever have been accused of "teen angst", though, since it really only became a problem that I was aware of when I had left my teenage years long behind me. Since being angsty and being "emo" have been linked to having too much time on ones hands, I feel compelled to mention that my worst episode ever was during a time when I was working an average of 60 hours a week.

My point in telling you all of this is to put across my own opinion, which is that there does exist a substantial group of people for whom it's simply not something that they can control without help. A diabetic person requires insulin to maintain their glycaemic balance, and a depressive person requires anti-depressants to maintain the balance of neurotransmitters. It is really that simple.

I would also point out that my mother suffers from depression as well, so it's not something that the older generation is immune to. It seems to me that the older generation simply have a tendancy to suffer in silence. That does not, of course, mean that they are not suffering.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yes, yes! We can stop all this unhealthy introspection with a busier schedule! Yes! It's a flawless idea.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by doodle

Yes, yes! We can stop all this unhealthy introspection with a busier schedule! Yes! It's a flawless idea.

Let's be friends!

I think Alice was on to something. All children should be made to enlist in the army and learn proper discipline, appropriate respect for authority and know their place.

LET'S SEE YOU WHINE ABOUT YOUR GIRL EMOTIONS WHEN YOU'RE DOING 500 AT 0500, FAGGOTS!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

My problem with Alice's theory is that I've found, in dealing with clinical depression myself, is the motivation to keep one's self busy. It's just not there.

But it's hard to tell where to draw the line between someone being clinically depressed or in being "emo," which I would define as being very sad for somewhat shallow reasons. For example, a friend of mine (we're in high school, mind you) works at Hot Topic, wears all black and has made dozens of angry/woe-is-me livejournal posts about how girls won't go out with him, about how unfairly he's judged for his appearance, all the typical highschool shit.

Conversely, I don't talk to anyone about my problems. I'm not sad about not having a girlfriend - I'm pretty ugly and a lousy talker. I think about death a lot and try to leave the house as little as possible.

My whiny friend's mom has cancer, though, so I TRY not to judge people too harshly. As stupid or annoying as someone may look for the few minutes a day I see them, you never know what else is going on. In that regard, I do think it's unfair to label people "emo," but the word depression is thrown around so freely that I can't blame people for wanting to make a distinction.

FELIPE NO

actually, your exactly right alice.

The problem with todays youth vastly stems from idle time. Its been shown time and time again, the best way to keep kids mentally, physically, and socially healthy and safe is too keep them involved in something. Not for the expeirance or the exercise, both of which help; but to keep them busy.

It sounds bad, but its completely true. Adolescent minds... tch tch.

Ya, Starslight, its more of a preventive measure. Easy to prevent, fixing issues is a bit tougher. Lets just give them all drugs, cause clearly society isnt the problem. Or so the current phase in society states.

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Obviously I wasn't talking about clinical depression, although I do think that there are more depressed people now than ever. I'd have to look up the statistics on that, but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

I totally stick by my theory, by the way. It could be something as simplistic as the fact that people used to be more physically active or possibly it's because they literally didn't have time to sit around and angst over their pitiful lives, but I guarantee you that none of our grandparents experienced this emo bullshit attitude that you see so much these days. For one thing, their parents would have slapped the shit out of them and told them to get a better attitude. For another, as I said before, they simply didn't have several hours each day to devote to being depressed.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I suppose the older generations had more obvious reasons to be thankful for what they had, considering the various wars that they'd finally seen the back of. Are goths classed as "emo"? I really don't know the exact definition of what what is basically an American term. I agree with Alice (omg!), but to put it more succinctly, some of these kids need a good hard kick up the ass, since i'm willing to bet that most of them could be doing a lot worse.

If you're depressed, then working towards something can take your mind off your problems (perhaps only temporary but better than nothing) and at least you are doing something productive with your time. Sitting around moaning doesn't change anything though.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

For one thing, their parents would have slapped the shit out of them and told them to get a better attitude.

No offense, but I seriously hope you will never raise children. Not that I'd expect you to beat them around on a daily basis but you simply seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people.

It sickens me when people refer to the wide use of corporal punishment as a reason why things used to be better in "the old times".

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Cyrus XIII

No offense, but I seriously hope you will never raise children. Not that I'd expect you to beat them around on a daily basis but you simply seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people..

Originally Posted by Yamamanama

It's too late. And I know about this thing caused by people who were trained with lots and lots of corporal punishment. It's called The Rape of Nanjing.

There is comedy in this thread.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Cyrus XIII

No offense, but I seriously hope you will never raise children. Not that I'd expect you to beat them around on a daily basis but you simply seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people.

It sickens me when people refer to the wide use of corporal punishment as a reason why things used to be better in "the old times".

I have three children, but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. I said our grandparents' parents would have slapped the shit out of them. Do you really think they wouldn't have?

These people had WORK to do. They went to school (if they were lucky), worked their asses off at home, and often worked outside the home, as well. My own grandmother practically raised her five younger siblings, cooked all the meals, essentially ran the entire household and still managed to graduate from high school. My grandfather was raised on a farm and I can ASSURE you there was no time for him to hide in his room and cry himself to sleep over his horrible life. Not being a productive member of a family simply wasn't an option, nor was choosing to mope around and angst for hours on end.

And you can take your little rant about corporal punishment and shove it up your ass. Although I've very rarely spanked my own children, that doesn't change the fact that the world was a better place when kids had respect (possibly brought about by a healthy fear of getting their asses beat if they didn't act respectably) and accepted their roles as contributing members of their families and society. I hope YOU never raise children.

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There is comedy in this thread.

Comedy GOLD.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Yamamanama

It's too late. And I know about this thing caused by people who were trained with lots and lots of corporal punishment. It's called The Rape of Nanjing.

WHAT WHAT WHAT

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As a general rule, there is no such thing as "The Good Old Days" or any bygone "Golden Age". Still, it's worth pointing out that schools didn't need metal detectors, and kids weren't shooting each other way back in the 50s and earlier, when parents still beat their kids. A tried and true method of raising children that probably dates back 11,000 years, and it's only recently that we stopped doing that, and look how kids behave now. Just something to think about.

As for depressed people not wanting to do anything of their own volition, again, that's why the parents threaten them with a 2x4 until the emo kids get off their black-eyeshadow-wearing butts and do something productive. That's a consequence of the gross lack of discipline parents enforce these days: they can't actually DO anything to control their kids' behavior.

Take away the emo kid's iPod for a month or two, and he'll start appreciating his cushy middle-class lifestyle.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Obviously I wasn't talking about clinical depression, although I do think that there are more depressed people now than ever. I'd have to look up the statistics on that, but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

There are more people diagnosed with depression than ever before. That does not mean that there are more people suffering with depression than ever before.

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I totally stick by my theory, by the way. It could be something as simplistic as the fact that people used to be more physically active or possibly it's because they literally didn't have time to sit around and angst over their pitiful lives, but I guarantee you that none of our grandparents experienced this emo bullshit attitude that you see so much these days.

You have no way to prove this. Am I supposed to treat this as an argument out of authority, or is it some other kind of logical fallacy? It's definitely pure rhetoric, and nothing more, because there's no way to prove it.

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For one thing, their parents would have slapped the shit out of them and told them to get a better attitude.

If you think that this would help anyone, or cause them to change their attitude, then you're sorely mistaken. You have children. You should know better.

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For another, as I said before, they simply didn't have several hours each day to devote to being depressed.

Ya know, it's not exactly a time-consuming activity. My advice would be to quit this discussion now before you make yourself look bad.

Originally Posted by Cyrus XIII

No offense, but I seriously hope you will never raise children. Not that I'd expect you to beat them around on a daily basis but you simply seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people.

Ya, seriously. Aside from the fact that I already know Alice has kids, I could not agree with you more.

Originally Posted by AlicenWonderland

Although I've very rarely spanked my own children, that doesn't change the fact that the world was a better place when kids had respect (possibly brought about by a healthy fear of getting their asses beat if they didn't act respectably) and accepted their roles as contributing members of their families and society.

That's the thing, though. They never had respect, all they ever had was fear. On the inside, they could have been loathing and resenting their parents, and their attitude might never have actually changed. Sure, if you wanna just gloss over the whole problem...

I'm not denying most of these kids just have an attitude problem, and aren't really suffering in any meaningful way. What I am saying, though, is that your ideas as to how best to handle that kind of problem will lead to bad results. Children aren't dogs, and shouldn't be treated as such.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I hate quote wars...they're so tedious. Look, I specifically said I wasn't talking about clinical depression. My mother has been depressed for as long as I've known her, I've suffered more than one bout of depression, and during the most recent one I had to take medication for about a year. My sister was recently diagnosed with "severe depression," so don't assume I'm one of those people who doesn't believe in depression, OK?

I'm referring to the modern-day spoiled brats who whine and cry and hide in their rooms because their mom made meat loaf for dinner. Kids who don't have to work for anything and have entirely TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS. If you don't think kids like that could use a good slap, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

For what it's worth, I am a huge supporter of corporal punishment in moderation, and would have used it more with my children if not for the fear of someone yelling "child abuse." I do not support mistreating kids. There's a big, big difference between spanking a kid and beating a kid. What it boils down to is that in order for kids to respect you, you have to instill in them what I call a "healthy fear," which is completely different from the kind of fear a child who is ABUSED feels toward his parents.

If you actually agreed with me on this issue, I'd fall over dead where I sit, so we're probably going to have to call a truce on this one.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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I'm referring to the modern-day spoiled brats who whine and cry and hide in their rooms because their mom made meat loaf for dinner. Kids who don't have to work for anything and have entirely TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS. If you don't think kids like that could use a good slap, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So why are you calling it depression if it's obvious that they're only spoiled brats? Crying, and whinning over shit hardly qualifies as any type of depression.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'm not. Where did you read that?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I'm not. Where did you read that?

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Does anyone think it's kind of funny how all this emo shit just started "happening" to teenagers roughly around the same time that kids started having so much free time on their hands?

Seeing how this entire thread deals with emo/depression/angst and what have you. The ony distinction you've made is clinical depression from everything else.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I don't see what the problem is. I didn't create this thread, and if I had, I wouldn't have included the word "depression," since to me, that words implies "clinical depression." Anything else is just angst.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Except there is a distinction between clinically depressed, and just plain depression that isn't your silly teenage angst.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yes, but that kind of depression isn't a way of life. It's pretty much equivalent to being in a bad mood, and it passes. That's not what I'm talking about.

FELIPE NO

Actually Emo is nothing else then a style of hair clothes and music.

A lot of my friends are "emo" but are not depressed in the slightest.
They just dress in the type of clothes the majority wants them to wear and put their hair all "emo" and listen to bands like atreyu and you name it.
But actually being Emo and being clinically depressed is a whole different thing.

besides it's fun to make fun of an emo kid ( even if they are you're friends).
Depressed kids probably don't like being made fun of.

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Why do people think emo kids have girl problems? My city's become a sort of emo central and christ, they've got girls fawning all over them. I suppose this is stronger grounding to prove they have nothing to whine about.

Where to draw the line... three different things really. There's emo, more of a style, which is simply falsely associated with depression (as has already been said). Emo is short for emotional, right? What's so wrong with that? Does that mean not being emo requires you to feel absolutely nothing? And it doesn't say which emotion it is linked with. Then there's regular teenage angst. And proper, full-blown, clinical depression. The last two things are pretty easy to single out, I think there's a very clear line between them.

Jam it back in, in the dark.