[PS3] PlayStation 3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by SouthJag

Better call them back. All EBs/GameStops are getting their supply cut by at least 2, since employees aren't allowed to get theirs on the first shipment.

God fucking damnit.

Jag, don't feel too bad, as I hear numerous chains got their allocations cut as well. We'll find out how many units will be available soon enough, though that isn't very reassuring for those of us who preordered.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Cetra

This shouldn't be an issue since nearly all HDTVs have their own scalers to fit the image to their native resolution. Most TVs will take a 720p input and scale it to 1080i/p if the TV requires it. That thread seems like a huge mess of misunderstanding.

Bingo. If the input device doesn't have on, the television almost certainly does, keep that in mind. Heck, all you need to do is look at a TV's specs to see if it says:

"Supports blah-blah-blah resolutions"

And it pretty much confirms the presence of a scaler in the product. This often comes either before or after mention of the television's native resolution (the res the scaler will be up/downscaling to). Scaling often introduces unwanted image problems (banding, macroblocking, etc..).

So, if you have a CRT HDTV, the native resolution is often 1080i, so that's what you should set your PS3's output to in the menu.

If you have a fixed pixel display, such as an LCD or DLP based display (flat panel LCDs, rear-projection LCDs, LCoS, DLP), the common number is 720p. Flat panels are different though, as most have it at around 768p. Of course the top dogs in each of these run at 1080p.

Too much AVS does this to you, ladies and gentlemen.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by SCHWARZE-3

I've got some sort of a noobish question here: Would it be possible to hook your PS3 up to a PC LCD monitor (e.g. 1280x1024 native resolution)?

They're considerably cheaper than a full blown HDTV set and a 17" or 19" LCD monitor should support 720p via a HDMI to DVI-D converter, right?

You wouldn't even need a converter, just an HDMI to DVI cable. I don't remember if it supports odd resolutions (like 768p on many flat panel LCD TVs), though if it does, then all you need is that cable, and use the AV out for sound.

Or you could set the machine at 720p, which comes in slightly lower than 1280 x 1024. Let's wait until some guys have it here, so we can find out what it'll output.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by SILBER-5

That just has to do with BLU-RAY and HD-DVD movies. You do not have to worry about HDCP with the gaming portion of your PS3.

One of the many reasons why I hate the DRM bullshit on both formats.

Unfortunately, it was mentioned a few days ago that Sony extended HDCP to cover even the games passing a signal over HDMI. It was one of the reasons why BlimBlim got his hopes shattered since if this wasn't in place, he could simply record gameplay off the machine.

This sucks for people with older HDTVs that lack any sort of HDCP compliance.

And just so you know, the ones you should be fuming at is the motion picture industry. They're the ones who set the requirements for their movies to be on any new formats. So what we get is DRM'd, copy protection all around.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

Here's an interesting question... considering that my widescreen monitor has DVI input, but isn't actually an HDTV, how would I go about determining what HD resolutions it supports? I understand now about Interlaced and Progressive Scan, though they aren't common terminology when it comes to computer monitors.

Modern monitors are all progressive, and they've had HD resolutions available for some time now. All you need to worry about, since the i/p question is answered, is if the monitor's native resolution is higher than what you're going to set in the PS3's output menu. It's better to have a smaller picture, than one that's cut off the edges, unless your monitor has some overscan controls you can fidget with.

Quote:

The monitor's native resolution is 1680x1050... so it doesn't seem like it would support 1080 by 30 bloody pixels. Would there be a way for me to tell then which 720 my monitor supported? (I don't want downgrade )

There's only one 720p, and that's the HD standardized 1280 x 720p. The console resolution set at that will fit fine on your monitor, but since it's not recommended res for the monitor (assuming this is an LCD) you'll see PQ losses.

Still, a much better alternative than buying an HDTV for the console.

Originally Posted by SCHWARZE-3

So no way of hooking up a PS3 to a PC LCD monitor via HDMI to DVI-D cable then?

That's the word, hopefully it's not true, but from all the display issues popping up (720p being downscaled by the console? 480i/p settings for proper PS2 game playback?) it may hold true.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Inhert

another question with the hdmi->dvi cable

do you need a widescreen monitor to be able to play the ps3 at 720p?

because you see I have this monitor it's 19'' monitor (not widescreen) and the native resolution is 1280x1024, so will the hdmi->dvi cable solution still work?

(I think this monitor do not support hdcp, so those this apply only for blu-ray movie? or I can't play anything at all on it?)

Cobalt seems to have confirmed that he was able to play it on his monitor, most of which aren't HDCP compliant (as of yet anyway). So you should be fine, not to mention HDCP won't be enforced until about 2010, and those studios that do use it have to label the movies with the ICT flags that prevent it from playing in HD on your display/monitor.

If you want to see a visual example of what 720p on your monitor will look like, just download a HD sample video from Apple's site at that resolution. It takes up a fair bit of the screen, but not all of it. 1280 x 720 comes in a bit smaller than your monitor's res.

Edit: Oh and hey all, and congrats to the PS3 owners here. Forums were acting strange for a good bit yesterday.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

Metal, mine's a 20" widescreen, hence it can support the HD resolutions. Anything that isn't widescreen may have issues with the resolutions. I don't know for certain though.

Then explain how I can see 720p videos on this screen's resolution (1280x1024)? Your screen doesn't need to have a wides aspect ratio, it simpy need to have a native resolution higher than the HD feed, or else you'll lose picture area.

LCD monitors may see differing levels of quality when doing this, since it depends on the panel it's using as well as the scaler present and how it deals with non-native signals.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Inhert

ok this is the last question for the hdmi/dvi cable XD

so I don't want to pay 150$ for a cable and the cheapest one are those two (those are Canadian dollars btw)

Rocketfish 4' HDMI To DVI-D Cable (RF-G1112)

Asid Tech ASD-002 Asid Tech PlayStation 3 DVI To HDMI Cable (ASD-002)

both seem identical for me, but one seem to be specially for the ps3. now all I want to know is if one is of better quality than the other.

Inhert, I'm about to save you a good chunk of money while getting you a much better product.

Monoprice.com

HDMI to DVI cable: (28 AWG)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

HDMI to DVI cable: (24 AWG)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

There's no reason to spend 70 hard earned bucks on cables when these will do the trick and will likely be better as well. Heck you even get a choice in the cable gauge as well (not to mention price deductions on bulk orders if your friends want cables too).

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Inhert

wow those price are awesome, even if it's US dollars I still save some money! I guess I'll go order one right away ^^

(oh and btw what's the difference between the 28 awg and 24 awg version?)

Most won't notice the difference, but getting thicker cable improves signal transfer, akin to getting lower gauge speaker cables. Couple with good speakers, the switch from thin to thick, sturdy cables is surprising. The same applies to cables such as these. Since it's a digital signal, it's either on or off, but getting better cable prevents common image artifacts attributed to be HDMI cables (like sparkling, limited color bleed, enhanced macroblocking).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by BlueBomber

I was hoping that it would just be, you know, free downloadable maps or something . It's what some developers do for the PSP, anyways...

I thought I read a while ago that the director of Kill Zone 2 was refusing to show anymore footage of the game until it looks exactly like it did in the trailer. I know I'm hanging on a thin thread here, but is it at least even possible?

No, at least not on these machines. It's already been said time and again, that the PS3 and 360 lack the bandwidth and memory required to do most of the things we saw in the trailer. Doesn't mean we won't see an impressive product, as if it looks better than GoW (and considering when this may be released, there's a good possibility of that).

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Rock

Too bad. I was under the impression that Cobalt had his PS3 hooked up to a computer LCD via DVI-D. I don't think there are a lot of displays that support HDCP for DVI, though ...

There are, tons actually. Now, when you say display, you have to be mindful that this includes televisions. Computer monitors are a completely different area, in that manufacturers may need to get that shove from the rest of the industry to start making their DVI ports HDCP compliant. Graphics cards are already moving in that direction in order to output copyrighted HDDVD and Blu-Ray movies, so the display device itself should be the next on the line.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Rock

I meant displays with DVI inputs. Never seen an actual television with DVI.

Haven't been looking too hard then, Rock. TVs equipped with HDCP compliant DVI inputs have been around for a few years now.

Quote:

So PS3 and computer monitors are absolutely no go?

I'm still curious on what setup Cobalt is using, though.

Certain Dell monitors are already on the HDCP bandwagon, though you have to look at the specs to be sure.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Rock

For games as well as BluRay movies? Because that monitor sure as hell isn't HDCP compliant. That would be awesome news. I don't feel like buying a full-fledged HDTV yet, and a monitor like that should be excellent as a temporary solution to enjoy the PS3 in all its HD glory.

EDIT: Just double-checked and noticed the 2007WFP does indeed support HDCP over DVI. The Dell page just didn't state it. Too bad ... -__-

Hmm, did a little google searching and it seems that there aren't too many HDCP compliant PC monitors. As I suspected, even considering how dated the article is, there doesn't seem to be a good variety of displays to choose form.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ndup/page2.asp

Jam it back in, in the dark.

An error? Why taking the worst case scenario? If we see more things priced at that, it'll spur their competitors into either improving their own services or lowing the costs of their titles. VC and XBLA come to mind.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Inhert

well yes all first shipment of the ps3 was coming with the same blu-ray movie Talledega Nights (which I still didn't watch and don't plan too) but the Eb games where I got it was giving another free blu-ray movie and you had to choose it from a little pile. I immediately spot the only copy of The fifth element and took it XD

Eesh, another BR movie with a terrible transfer. I've heard of comparison between this version and the Superbit version where the former doesn't even eclipse the latter. Hopefully I can find the SB version of the movie and run it on the Oppo, since I saw over at a friend's house on his PS3 and it was nice. This keeping in mind that the PS3 isn't a great DVD player, and IIRC, doesn't upconvert.

Awesome news on the controller Cobalt. Tried any other games with it?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Inhert

yeah I heard about it, but I don't have an HDTV (yet) so i don,t really see the difference from a DVD for now >.> but I didn't choose a movie just for the quality, I just the only good movie that they were giving away XD

Well, neither did the testers when comparing the SB version and the BR transfer of the title, heh. Hopefully they'll get their act together, because the intial transfer for 5th was atrocious too.

BTW, I'm looking forward to your feedback on what the controller works/doesn't work with, Cobalt.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Slayer X

Inhert: I know you guys were talking about this already on the last page, however I'd just like to clarify something. Is the HDCP protection also on PS3 games? Because I could have sworn that the protection was only on the BR-movies. I wanted to hook my PS3 up to my monitor also via DVI, but if you're sure that it won't work without HDCP support then I'll just have to believe you. (My monitor is a ViewSonic VA1912wb)

According to what I've heard, Sony chose to encrypt everything coming out of the HDMI out. So Inhert's experience is what will likely happen to anyone without an HDCP compliant display device.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Miles

I like how I randomly walked into a Best Buy yesterday 6PM and found one. They only had 60GBs too! I laugh at all the people who camped for a week to get one before the end of the year.

This is the same thing I've been hearing in various places, that some stores have no 20GB models. Others have 20GB ones, but no one wants to buy them (so much for the machine being expensive) and are waiting for more premiuim units.

NNTB, my guess is that they pushed the games back to around March to make the console that more appealing in Europe. It was, literally, the least they could do after that massive delay.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

The machine also looks more appealing due to improved firmware, smoothed out wrinkles, etc.. Basically, Sony's padding the very difficult reality that most Europeans will have to swallow: This is an expensive machine, and they're going to try and justify the cost as much as possible.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Miles

-___-

Sony better fix this soon. I was planning on finishing some of my Ps2 games on here because my ps2 console is old and gets disc read errors randomly.

That's the same reason many people are citing when they mention the PS3's spotty upscaling and/or horrible IQ. It shouldn't be too much to fix in firmware, unless it's something that's hardware based.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Infernal Monkey

Sigma's a port of Ninja Gaiden Black. With all new super fun happy slide fancy graphics. I think there was a mention somewhere that it'd have an even easier difficulty setting to choose from, too. That's about it!

- You can play as Rachel
- Dual Wielding of weapons
- New bosses
- IIRC, new weapons
- New difficulty level (I think this is called Ninja Dog, and Ryu gets a wristband or something if you play the game in that mode, so all can now you're a pussy. Unfunny Itagaki bull if you ask me)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Infernal Monkey

Oh! I'm totally out of the loop. Man, the original wasn't that hard. I hope the new super ultra easy mode ends half way through the game for the sake of hilarity.

Nobody deserves that kind of rape. That's wrong Infernal, and you know it.

"Damn this game is pretty easy. Oh, a new enemy!"

*runs over*

"Wait, what the fuck, nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SHIT!"

I'd rather play in easy that be visited by rape and broken camera monsters. I play games to have fun. If I want a challenge, make it optional. Oh, another addition is that the game runs at 1080p.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

If it accepts component then you should use that. It's a better analog signal than s-video and composite. If it's a standard-definition tv then it's probably low-end component at probably 480p and progressive scan but that's still better than s-video and composite. You'll just have to set your PS3's video settings accordingly.

If it was an SDTV, wouldn't it be limited to 480i, as progressive scan can only be enabled on digital sets. Unless there are SDTVs capable of accepting and displaying 480p signals?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

Hmmmmm... I'm not sure. You could be right. It might just be 480i. That should still be better than s-video and composite though.

It'll be leaps and bounds better than composite. The difference between s-video and component, while noticeable, aren't as dramatic. You get improved color saturation and definition, and the picture often looks brighter and a tad sharper.

Quote:

I kind of find the whole situation kind of amusing though since the PS3 should really be played on a better display anyway. That's just me though.

Of course. Why would you buy a machine whose main strength lies in displaying high defintion images, without either owning an HDTV or getting one soon after?

Quote:

Well, right -- I agree with you entirely, Acer. And owning a PS3 is my primary reason for looking into getting an HDTV. I....just can't afford a good one at the moment. When I buy one, I wanna make sure it's something akin to top shelf.

You could get an HDTV that was top tier a year ago and save some money, and get something that's been proven to work well. Getting mine was a hassle, since I stuck it out for a long time looking for a set that was a champ with SD material, HD material and had no problem with gaming.

Edit: Slayer, ironic you pick plasma to illustrate the point that 480i looks terrible, when they're often the best HDTV class when handling standard definition feeds.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

Metal Sphere, I'm curious. What HDTV set did you end up buying that's great for both SD and HD? I myself got a nice 32 inch Samsung.

This one to be specific...

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/L...S3296DXXAA.asp

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDFE50A10-Rear-Projection-Television/dp/B000A2K3Y6

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDF-50E2000-Grand-Projection-Television/dp/B000G5WGYW

The KDF-E50A10, got it for $1500 about a year ago. There was a revision soon after I got it that replaced the RGB input (the one I use to display the PC on my monitor and TV) with a second HDMI input. Other than that, the E50A10 and 50E2000 are essentially the same set.

I had a Sammy DLP before, but it had some serious lag with anything that wasn't at its native resolution. So I sent it back and started trolling AVS for a well rounded set and came up with the above model. Served me me well, but I need to get a bulb for it soon. That's the downside.

Quote:

It only goes up to 1080i but it does have HDMI in the back and does 720p most excellently. It also handles SD very well unlike most LCD TVs.

Seems like we both ended up with LCDs with great SD performance. I like this sets zoom modes more than most of the others I've tried. The Wide Zoom is probably the least noticeable, so it really helps in those games that don't have 16:9 support or do it by cutting off the image.

Originally Posted by Slayer X

Metal: I actually didn't know that, however more my point is that anything run in 480i looks comparatively bad to higher resolutions with more lines. I didn't mean to say that SD looks bad on plasma, sorry for my misguided wording.

Oh, yeah. Anything stretched to cover an image larger than the source is providing is going to look worse than it's not. It's just that it depends on the type of display device and the scalers in said TV to determine how bad it turns out on the screen.

I was speaking idiomatically.