[PS2] Xenosaga III: Also Sprach Zarathustra

Read up on it in Wikipedia. They have some pretty good articles on each of the various characters and plot points. It'll also fill you in on the gist of Pied Piper and the Missing Year.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

This should clarify shit for you people trying to figure out if there is a direct connection between the two stories.

Which there isn't.

Spoiler:

You guys do realize that Saga and gears are not releated, right? This has been said time and time again. By the series creators, even. Jin is NOT Citan, chaos is definitely not the Wave Existance, KOS-MOS is not Miang, Deus is not Omega.

KOS-MOS as Miang has more problems with it than you can imagine. Miang was created after the Eldridge crash, and was a daughter of the first mother, created by Deus's Kadamony system. KOS-MOS being Miang makes little to no sense whatsoever. KOS-MOS doesn't actually fit into the Gears timeline whatsoever, actually. There is no character you can really compare her to.

chaos is in no way the Wave Existance. U-DO is. chaos is the physical representation of Anima, remember? The ending and database went over this if you were paying attention.

Abel is also not the same Abel from Gears. Abel here in Saga is a manifestation of U-DO, the wave existance. Abel in gears came into contact with the Wave Existance and it gave him the ability to destroy to the Zohar (in which the Wave Existance was trapped). So Abel is a Contact in Gears, while here is he actually a manifestation of U-DO as an observer. So no, not the same Abel. ABel just looks that was as, *gasp* fanservice. Just like Jin.

Lost Jerusalem is also not the Gears planet. This makes no sense.

Neph and (And definetely not Mary. Dunno why you even mention her) can't be Elly either. The first Elly was born to the original Mother, along with Cain and the Gazel Ministry. Abel (the only human survivor the Eldridge crash who wasn't given birth to by Kadamony) and Elly were killed by Cain and the Ministry after they defied them. They were given recurring lives though so they could eventualyl free the Wave Existance. Neph's appearance is merely done as a nod to gears fans.

Jin just looks like Citan as a nod to Gears fans. Just like the four spheres thing in the Ark was a nod to the end of Gears, and how each of the bosses in those spheres looked like an Omnigear. Michtam, Abel, Neph's transition at the end there. It's neat to speculate but it's not the same timeline. It's a rough retelling of the events of Episode 1, sure. But it's not the same and it would NEVER lead to Gears without some serious rewriting going on.

Deus is a bloody biological weapon. He's not a "Relic of God" like the Omega System was. Deus has a core called Omega-1 and was powered by the Zohar, this is truth. Merkava was a component of Deus though. The container/superweapon part. It's just a name thing here. Omega and Deus are not the same system. Similar broad activites but the specifics don't match.

Razael's Tree makes the most sense of all the comparisons made above. The Y-Data is not really "the knowledge of everything" that was found in Mahanon in Gears. The Tree was basically used as a device to let everyone know what Deus was about in Gears. He wasn't God, he was using people for spare parts. The Y-Data contains stuff like the location of Lost Jerrsulem and stuff, and I suppose the Tree would have that in there if people knew where it was at that time (unlikely), but it's not the same thing. The Y-Data has no mention of Deus because the Deus system does not exist in Saga. So no. That doesn't match up EITHER.

Holy crap that was long. Hopefully everyone understands now that they aren't connected though, that there will be NO WAY to connect them using the current stories of both games, and that the stuff in Saga that's rather obvious (like the character designs) is just fanservice. Jin doesn't reincarnate as Hyuga, sorry. As cool as that sounds, it's a no go.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Oh, it was left open ended enough that it could go on. I just don't think it'll turn into Xenogears if it does. Besides the immense amount of rewriting that has to happen and the rather large time gap that has to be covered, Monolith wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

And, to be honest:

Spoiler:

I'd rather have the series end on this extremely high note. We don't need to know what happens what happens to Shion and crew. It's an extremely poignant ending as is. I'd much rather be left with the pleasant feelings and thoughts that they might make it to Lost Jerusalem instead of actually having more bad stuff happening to them. This was a fantastic ending, and I think that if they did write another chapter after this, it would have to be extremely well done to not lessen the emotional impact we got from this episodes ending sequence.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

Fair enough, Mr. Skills It's just fun trying to put pieces together, even if they don't fit.

Oh, it would be absolutely mindblowing and and completely badass if they linked together like that. One of the greatest (if the the greatest RPG stories ever told, in that case. It's too bad that it doesn't though, and that people wish it did so badly that they either ignore or just forget about the specifics that make it impossible.

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Yeah, lots of re-writing would have to occur, but you do have to wonder what exactly they were going to go for in a 6-episode Xenosaga rather than what we got in 3.

Alas, we'll probably never a know. And that makes me sad.

Originally Posted by Lunar Seal

I feel like I spent a majority of this game taking on bullshit quests that did nothing to further develop the story.

Were you even paying attention?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yes, Cetra, all those similarities are there because the stories are similar, have similar themes, and there are numerous cameo appearances and other fanservice and nods to Gears fans. But the writers and devs have said time and time again that the stories are NOT linked. They can't continue the story. Saga is not meant to be a prequel to Gears. I really don't know how many times people have to say this. It's fun to draw conclusions, sure. But it's just not the case. You're filling in blanks in various places and making wild assumptions here to boot.

Besides, there are too many inconsistenancies like I've previously mentioned, and to link them you need to make many iffy connections that were never there in the games or design materials, and every single theory I've seen has the people making it making wild assumptions and just guessing about things.

I will repeat for good measure. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME TIMELINE. IT COULD NOT EVEN WORK. The writers even say so. Yeesh.

I was speaking idiomatically.

No, you're wrong.

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TT: Now that we are under a different company, we figured we should start everything from scratch all over again. Though there are familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga, others are more like self-parodies, so we don't really want Xenogears fans to overreact. Like movies, sometimes you have the director of the movie or friend of the leading actor appearing as cameos, so it's similar to that.

If that's not a flat out denial that the stories are not directly linked, I don't know what is.

And Gears would never once confirmed to be rewritten. It was left out there as a potential maybe, and then the idea was shortly abandoned afterwards, but it was never confirmed that they were going to redo Fei's story. If you read that article I linked you'll see that they say they might do it but don't really confirm it or anything.

And yes, I'd say some of your theories about

Spoiler:

Abel for example, are rather "wild" in the smallest sense of the word. Abel in Gears is a human boy. The only one who survives the Eldridge Crash and is killed later on by Cain. He's given eternal life through reincarnation by the Zohar. Abel being a regular human tasked with freeing the WE and Abel being a MANIFESTATION of the WE is too different to just connect like that, yes.

And most of your entire second spoiler block is speculation. There isn't enough data from either game to draw those conclusions. The same goes for the UMN link to Deus and how Citan ended up looking like he did. Citan wouldn't have parents if he was created by Kadamony directly and based off of Jin's conciousness, (assuming if your theory was true.) It just doesn't hold up based on what's confirmed in either story.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

These quote/spoiler boxes are going to look like hell when all is said and done here.

Originally Posted by Cetra

No actually, you know what that tells me? Exactly what I said. They wanted to cover their asses and be free to make changes to the story if they found it necessary. This is no way denies the links aren't intentional.

I never meant to imply that the links weren't intential. They are. However, it's also obvious by the rather numerous inconsistencies and various quotes by Monolith that they are not the same timeline. I said it before, and I'll say it again, it is ALL in the details. With rewriting, like oyu're doing here, it could fit. But as it stands, it's too much to just assume "this is that" and go with it.

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Spoiler:

So "familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga" can translate to Nephilim, Abel, Jin, and "others are more like self-parodies" can translate into Hammer, that general with the X face paint and Big Joe.

I'll agree than the quote is anbigious in how one can interpret it, but when I read that all it says to me is that there is plenty of fanservice but the game isn't a direct prequel.

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Spoiler:

Nope, in Xenogears it states the reason Abel survived the crash was because of the power he inherited from the WE. He was already beyond human before the crash.

And I find it funny that you dismiss all of the other connections because you can't replace "Abel was enhanced by the WE" with "Abel was given life by the WE." Really, exactly how much impact would this small change make? If U-DO somehow becomes trapped in the Zohar, would it not make sense to give his lower dimensional observation terminal the task of freeing it?

Spoiler:

This depends on your interpretation of the pregame events. Abel came into contact with the Zohar (in the Gears timeline at least) right before the Eldridge got taken over by Deus. That's when he got his extra powers so he could survive the Crash. To assume the chain of events you laid out for it, Abel just has to be hanging out on the Eldridge for whatever reason. I suppose this could be explained by that the Wave Existance being trapped during the initial Deus test summoned Abel in some way to get on board and go meet up with it right before Deus flipped out. I'll admit that that is the best connection between the two games that I'e seen, but the way the Perfect Works read to me was that Abel was just a boy on the cruiser at the time. So this is an interpretation thing. I still don't think the wave existance would have to bestow powers upon it's own physical manifestation though, hence why I still don't think this connection makes compelte sense.

And I find it funny that you don't realize you're filling in blanks with information you're pulling out of nowhere. I already said multiple times that it would take a rewrite to link Gears up. As it stands though, the inconsistencies prevent it from matching up perfectly like that. That's all. I am refusing to replace parts of the story to make everything fit magically together, this is true. You can change your interpretation of things though if you'd like. It's just not something I'm going to do.

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Spoiler:

That's assuming he was born normally and his parents were foster parents. Or that his bloodline isn't capable of passing down certain traits like many other important figures in Xenogears. Of course either way would be 'wild speculation', but not any more than assuming he was born normally since it was never stated.

Spoiler:

I'm sorry, I find it hard to say that assuming someone was born normally and assuming someone has special traits can both be classified as wild speculation. You're filling in blanks to make it so that Citan is at least somewhat related to Jin. Considering Gears did a pretty good job of telling us what was special about each character, you think it would let us know if something was interesting about Citan. But you're right, it doesn't. So I guess I'm free to think that because it's not explained, he's normal, and you're free to think that because it's not explained, he's got a ton of all-the-sudden very convient traits that were never brought up before.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Lionking-Cyan

Perfect works should describe all the chapters. And xenosaga (1,2,3), should be the chapter 1 in perfect works.

You are fucking stupid.

No, it's not. Listen to B.K. He's smarter than you.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

You heard wrong.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Xenosaga series serves as a spiritual successor to the game Xenogears, which was released in 1998 for the PlayStation by Square (now Square Enix). Outside of allusions, stylistic connections, and design similarities, there is no relationship between the two storylines. The creator of both Xenogears and Xenosaga is Tetsuya Takahashi, who left Squaresoft in 1998 along with Hirohide Sugiura. Using funds from Namco, they started Monolith Soft and the Xenosaga project.

That's the gist of it. There is tonnes of information on this subject if you google it. I suggest you do.

How ya doing, buddy?

So is your English.

It's the weakest of the three episodes, sure, but it's not horrible. The battle system is radically different though and it's a pure love it or hate it kinda thing. It's slow, so random encounters can actually drag on because of it, but I enjoyed it significantly. I am not unbaised though, but I'd recommend checking out some battle vids somewhere first to see if it would be your kind of thing or not.

Most amazing jew boots

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-...5sh-43-9k.html

So is anyone else buying this or what?

I've got the first Alter KOS-MOS figure, and it's pretty fantastic. This will hopefully be the same way.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Leknaat

Why only KOS-MOS? T-ELOS would be cool, too. Not life-size or fully functional, but cool, anyway.

There *is* a T-ELOS figure, but it's made by Bandai and is only about 6 inches tall. Unfortunately, it's a trading figure, so it was available only through randomness by buying the Xenosaga Legends trading figure series, which was basically Shion, T-ELOS, and multiple versions of KOS-MOS.

The Alter figures are both of a much higher quality and quite a bit larger, but also quite a bit more expensive. so 'eh. I really like the V1 KOS-MOS I bought 7 or so months ago and this should be similarily awesome.

How ya doing, buddy?

Apparently someone listens to Lek's suggestions.

Alter is also doing a T-ELOS figure

Hurrah, for those of you nerdy enough to buy them. Like me

I was speaking idiomatically.