[360] Market forces and you or "Why popular stuff costs lots" for beginners

OK, well I've just seen the single most evil and ingenious thing on the new Xbox Avatar Marketplace which is going to make someone a lot of money: a lightsaber for 400 points.

400 points! That is a stupid amount of money for nothing. But I'm sure it'll sell quite a few. In fact this whole thing. It's dumb beyond words, but it'll work. Reward shit for in-game achievements: yes. Sell it: hell no. But then they did it on the PlayStation with Home and people seemed to buy shit on there despite common sense, so you know facepalm, etc.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think, as Skills is saying, no one is surprised. I'm not, not at all. Especially once Sony proved it was a viable way to make money with micro-transactions in Home. However, that doesn't change the fact that stuff like that should, as far as I'm concerned at least, be free. Or if there must be a cost, why not something completely inconsequential like 5 or 10 points, maybe 80 for the really fancy stuff.

But 160, 320 and 400 points for a lot of shit? What now?! That's the same price, double, or a track pack of songs in Rock Band (probably Guitar Hero too) which can provide a load of gameplay value. 400 points is the price of some older XBLA games, like Uno, which can also provide loads of value. I'm not saying I'm surprised they're charging, I'm saying the prices are fucking crazy, as is anyone who pays them.

(And just for the record I also thought that gamerpics should have been free and refused to pay for any; the only time I did so being when I thought I was buying the Puzzle Fighter game, which pissed me off no end because I didn't want to spend money on gamerpics.)

Thing is, I like the Avatar idea to a reasonable extent, which I know isn't necessarily the popular point of view here, but I do. And I like having more customisation options, and certainly some fairly cool (if geeky ones). And if I could dress my dude up in COG armour from Gears 2 because I've beaten the game on Insane, then awesome. If I can have a little Halo 3 t-shirt because I own the game, sure why not. Paying for that crap, not a chance. I understand the business reasoning behind it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'm not going to lie, I bought one of the SFIV costume packs. I will agree they were somewhat overpriced, but I never complained about the pricing then (and still wouldn't really) and happily paid my money (essentially for the Cammy alt. outfit which I loved the look of so sue me). But then I played enough and used them enough that I didn't mind paying.

Your point is valid though Devo, plenty of people do complain and then go and spend the money anyways. Sometimes it is incredibly difficult though, you only have to look at the issue facing a lot of gamers in the UK with Modern Warfare 2 and them jacking up the price because they know they can. Sure you can argue that people should vote with their wallets, but they miss out on the game, and playing with other people in countries where the price isn't jacked up. It's not always black and white (though in this case it clearly is as the avatar shit has no real value at all and you don't lose anything by not buying it, as Skills says your avatar still exists).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Sorry Devo, but you're massively over-simplifying the issue there. I'm going to refer you back to the example of Modern Warfare 2. So you're saying because I disagree with the pricing of the game in the UK I should forgo one of my most anticipated titles of the last few years (since I finished MW1 really), forgo the chance to play with all my friends who live in territories where the price isn't being jacked up all for some moral high-ground? That sounds an awful lot like cutting the nose off to spite the face, not trying to vote with a wallet.

In some morally black and white game world it might be that easy, but we live within shades of grey and rightly or wrongly many people shouldn't have to lose out to try and prove a point.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by YOU MAD

YES.

See the problem here Devo is you talk the talk, but I'm willing to bet good money you won't walk the walk. So, we agree that Activision are scummy shitfucks for the crap they're pulling with the pricing for Modern Warfare 2 yes? And that the way to combat the millions upon millions they're going to sell is to protest with our wallets, so are you going to join me in not buying the game? I mean, sure it's not overpriced there but you agree that they're acting in an evil way so surely this means that you should take a stand too yes? After all, it's a game not a heating bill.

Skills, Lord Jaroh and anyone else, you too. You guys going to not buy Modern Warfare 2 because they're screwing the UK over with their pricing here? Almost certainly not. If any of you are not buying the game it's either because you don't want it or can't afford it, not because you're voting with your wallets.

And also, how about voting that I like good, well made games. I dislike the pricing policy, but I believe Infinity Ward are great developers and I'd much rather them get a shit ton of money than some piss-ant dev house churning out shitty movie tie-ins or yearly sequels. As Skills said, should I not have bought Mirror's Edge because EA can be bastards? In fact, did you Devo ever try and get your money back for Battlefield 1943, because you were certainly pretty angry about how crap that initial experience was, as much as Skills or I.

It's so fucking easy to talk in morally superior way, but unless you back it up with actions it's meaningless.

Originally Posted by SailorDaravon

Man, this almost tempts me to buy the stormtrooper armor, helmet, and lightsaber just to piss people off.

Who is it going to piss off? It's your money dude, buy what you like, my original point was that it appears to be a massive waste of anyone's money and I think you'd have to be crazy to buy that shit.

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Congratulations, point missed. I'm not talking in a morally superior way, I've been recognising that the decisions aren't always easily made, and that despite me disagreeing with the pricing decision someone up high has made, I want to a) support a really good developer who I'd like to see keep making games, and b) actually really want the game so am willing to pay the jacked up price. Just because I can afford to pay it, and am willing to, doesn't mean I have to agree with it though, and I can remember when I was a poor student and that would have made the game almost unattainable.

I'm not the one coming along and saying we should just flat out never buy games if we have some objection to some part of them, like pricing, which tries to box things into some nice black and white world of morality. But you know Cirno, don't let the actual words stop you from missing an opportunity to try post a funny picture.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Well I'm paying £18 for the Limited Edition of Modern Warfare 2, so no, I don't really consider that to be all that pricey. And at no point am I saying it's surprising. I'm also not saying it's a rip-off. I'm saying that I don't agree with the price hike just in the UK and that if I wasn't fortunate enough to be in a pretty well paid job it would suck a massive one and I would be forced to wait until the price dropped.

And I do indeed follow the exact course of action you describe Shin: if I don't believe something is worth the money, I don't pay it, simple as. I either wait for it to drop in price or never bother at all. Which is exactly what I'm saying about the Avatar Marketplace stuff, which I will never be buying because I don't believe (personally) any of it is worth the money. It's exactly why I'm not even contimplating DJ Hero, which has looked interesting and for £70-80 I might have been willing to give a go, but at £110, not a chance.

I'm doing exactly what you're saying here Shin, I'm buying the things I consider worth my money. Voicing an opinion isn't acting surprised or failing to understand that companies are out to make money.

FELIPE NO

You're still wrong though Shin. Notice how I said "as far as I'm concerned at least, be free". That means that, in my opinion, those things should be free. I don't believe, personally, that people should have to pay for them. That, however, is divorced from my understanding that companies want to make money and will therefore charge for stuff they could happily give away free for no real loss.

But fear not Shin, you win, I fail, whatever. I'll just take solace in knowing that I can tell the difference between a statement of opinion and fact.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Yes I did, as on this screen that is a little one pixel high line just above your signature.

How ya doing, buddy?