[Tournament] 2008-09 NHL season discussion thread

Free agency begins in less than a week, and for every team except for the Toronto Maple Leafs it means renewed optimism and hope for the coming season. Parity is in full swing and no one would be surprised in the slightest if the Chicago Blackhawks made the Western Conference finals (which is my dangerously early prediction of the year). Of course, early on like this it's always the clever thing to do when you say "Penguins vs. Red Wings" in the Final, but only half of the matchup sounds fair at this point as the Penguins will be losing Marian Hossa (likely), Gary Roberts (definitely) and Ryan Malone (definitely). To be honest, that doesn't leave the Penguins in too bad a shape, but if there's a lesson to be learned from this past season it's that depth isn't a bad thing to have a little of.

The Penguins did luck out with Ty (wait, no, not anymore) Conklin (who also may be hitting the dusty trail) and got what they were hoping for from Malkin (read: Hart-worthy effort), but no one was excited to see the Penguins heading into the middle of January without Fleury, Crosby and Mark Eaton (snake-bitten). We'll have to see what happens during free agency, but some people are clamoring for a return trip for Jaromir Jagr (maybe) and Markus Naslund way underpriced (kthx). I'd like a top-flight D man, but the only one on the market is Brian Campbell and there isn't really a buzz about him heading to Steel City. Wade Redden would do OK, but I don't think he'll be received well considering the Sens rivalry that's been brewing.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Wojo

However, if Pens don't sign Hossa back I think I'm going to cry.

I don't have a problem with it as long as we get some depth to replace him at a similar value (Jagr and Naslund is being kicked around at 9 or 10 mil total).

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, a busy day in the NHL and things aren't yet over. Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli is expected to be holding a press conference sometime in the next few minutes, likely to announce a signing.

The biggest moves of the day were made by - who else - the Chicago Blackhawks, who've signed Brian Campbell and Cristobal Huet. Just another piece of evidence that this will probably be a big year for the Hawks.

The Rangers signed Wade Redden and Michal Roszival. Meh.

The Penguins re-signed Pascal Dupuis and Mark Eaton, and signed Erik Godard.

Brian Rolston is a Devil.

Micheal Ryder is a Bruin.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Apparently the B's might be looking for a few trades.

The Penguins are reportedly close to signing Jaromir Jagr.

Hossa might be an Oiler.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by nazpyro

On top of not going back to the Pens, he's going to the Red Wings.

What a jip. He took a one-year deal worth only $400,000 more than what the Pens were offering.

I hope he blows out his leg in the first game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Beard Overflow

As well as a promise of a multi-year contract next year.

A.) As opposed to the one the Penguins were offering him NOW, and B.) as if any ownership group is really obligated to follow up on promises.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm glad people take everything I say seriously.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Beard Overflow

Pittsburgh is fucking dead to me. I hope they wind up dead last.

Long live the Habs.

Aren't you a Bruins fan?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

So your next choice is your favorite team's arch-rival? That makes more sense to you than stumping a team that loses a couple guys here and there but will likely make their own chemistry from being together and succeeding year after year?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Two huge hits in one week:

YouTube Video

Doug Weight ruins Brandon Sutter's day

YouTube Video

Milan Lucic checks Mike Van Ryn through glass

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's a pretty good time to be a Penguins fan right now. 4th in the conference, but the team is very balanced. Big wins against the Wings and Flyers in the last two games.

Story of the East is Boston though. Well, actually the story is Tim Thomas. He's carrying the B's right now. The games on Dec. 30 and Jan. 1 between the Pens and them will be huge.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Lucic. I know Bergeron's supposed to be the cornerstone of the Bruins but I'd take Lucic any day of the week.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

He was the 50th pick (or something) in the draft; everyone missed their chance.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Speaking of Lucic, he was an assist away from another Gordie Howe hat-trick, but he beat the crap out of Komisarek and he was fired up afterwards. He's like a better PJ Stock. Bruins tarred and feathered the Habs in Boston, 6-1. I'd love to go to a game now.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

As if the All-Star Game wasn't a farce already, Canadiens fans have decided stuffing the ballot is their primary objective this year, and they have done extremely well. For a time, there was no bot protection on the ballot page, so some Habs fans worked up a script to automate votes for Habs players and Wings players, and with the exception of the West's starting d-men and goalie, all starting spots are held by Habs and Wings.

Frankly, this aggravates me, but I'm one of an apparently dwindling number of people who enjoy watching the All-Star Game year after year. It doesn't bother me that there aren't any Penguins starting (I'd rather Milan Lucic be on the roster than Sidney Crosby at this point), it bothers me that people don't enjoy or respect it enough anymore to care that this kind of tomfoolery should go unchecked or undefended. I wasn't a big fan of it when Rory Fitzpatrick was the big name two years ago (even though it was a little funnier), but...with the rules being that every team has to be represented, plus the fact that the Habs aren't even the best team in their division, it's just very sad to me that this is what it has come to.

(Plus, Tim Thomas is fourth is goalie voting in the East. If you're reading this, you should be angry.)

My suggestion is this: Habs vs. NHL All-Stars, Habs must play their first-liners for at least 20-30 minutes (d-men: 30-40 minutes). Gives the game a old-timey, host team vs. everyone else All-Star Game feel. There you go, Canadiens fans. You want your cake? Well, you're gonna have to eat it right now, in 30 minutes, and with nothing to drink.

Just don't be surprised if your team gets embarrassed in the process.

FELIPE NO

At the same time, though, every other sport (NBA, MLB, NFL, MLS, and I'm sure your AFLs and WNBAs) have fan voting and, for the most part, the fans don't act like a bunch of fucking morons when doing it. And between MLB's ASG actually meaning something and the NFL's meaning the least...yeah, sometimes there are some duds on the roster but with the kind of behavior we're seeing with the NHL ASG this year you'd think you'd start to see people writing in Peyton Manning at running back and Eli Manning at nose tackle for the Pro Bowl.

I don't think having the fans vote is all bad, but if they're going to make a mockery of it then you have to change something about the game itself to make it worth the fans' while to actually vote for players who should be in the game. I'd rather have home-ice advantage go to the winning conference before we have to stop having the fans do any voting.

And, of course, the number of people who vote probably shouldn't exceed the number of people who watch the game.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

First off, MLB started the practice of making the game worth something and it's worked wonders (for the most part) on the game itself. Not that there was an issue with fan voting to begin with (unless you listen to the baseball writers).

I honestly don't think the NHL intends for the voting to be shat on by its fans, but at the same time they didn't fix the problems they had two years ago last year and obviously the problems still exist. Like I said, they should still give home-ice to the conference that wins the ASG. Do THAT first, then if the fans continue to piss on the balloting then stop them from being able to vote altogether. From what I've read on hockey boards, fans would take it more seriously if the game meant something.

In the long run, giving anyone home-ice advantage in the playoffs is irrelevant often enough that it wouldn't be that great an incentive anyway. I think the All-Stars (in any sport) should be handled by the players and coaches exclusively and leave it at that. We've seen enough cases in the history of fan voting to warrant its end.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Axelrod :punch: Axelrod

As far as home ice advantage goes, well, besides potential lost revenue which owners would certainly have an issue with, do you know how many times the team with home ice has won the cup in the last ten playoffs? That's right. Ten. How about the last twenty playoffs? Sixteen. Good luck convincing anyone that is involved with hockey in any way that home ice is meaningless.

I'd like to know where you got your numbers, and how you derived that each series was won by the team who had home-ice advantage.

You know, just so everyone can see that I am still stupid.

Quote:

First off, until fairly recently MLB was two legally distinct leagues, and before home field advantage was given to the winner of the ASG it alternated between the National and American league team playing. The two situations are incomparable.

And why are they incomparable? The answer is not because of the DH.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, the first thing I did after I read what you said was look at the last 8 Stanley Cup Finals. Sure enough, in 7 of the last 8 (the exception being the 2000 Cup Final) the winner was seeded 1-4, and in 6 of 8 cases the winner was a higher-ranked team than its opponent. So, again, I don't know where you got your numbers. My numbers differ. Ultimately, it doesn't prove a whole lot. Having home-ice/home-field/home-court advantage in pro sports is a tenuous concept at best, and is becoming decreasingly powerful with many new buildings being so similar to each other and crowds being tough to deal with regardless of whether it's the postseason or the regular season. Crowds just aren't as big a factor in the NHL as in, say, the NFL or the NBA, and if they were every team who had home-ice advantage in any series would win no matter what. Granted, MOST teams with home-ice advantage do win their series, but I take it with a grain of salt. It's all in the head.

Quote:

If you change the way it is awarded in the NHL, you are telling those players who worked hard during the regular season to secure the most points they were able to that their drive to succeed didn't mean anything because now a couple of goofballs in a ridiculous Junior B end-of-practice deke competition determined that they don't get home ice anymore.

Sounds to me like you don't enjoy the All-Star Game at all.

Regardless, your statement seems to contradict itself. What you're suggesting is winning more games in MLB isn't any different now than it was before they decided to have the ASG decide home-field advantage, but then you're suggesting that the opposite would be true for the NHL.

All I'm saying is if you give the game importance (even if it is benign in my mind, it isn't to most), the players will play like it's important and the fans will treat it like it's important. I realize I'm more optimistic than most people, but that's how I feel.

Of course, the irony is that the MLB ASG-World Series relationship was implemented not because of fan voting but of what happened on the field, which may have happened again this year.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

And the Devils won more games on the road (3) than they did at home in that series. Same with the Eastern Conference final, and they were playing against a higher-ranked opponent (#1 Flyers).

Thank YOU for playing.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Ooh, fat jokes. That's new. Of course I could tell you I have done my share of athletics before but there's nothing to prove it so why bother.

I am glad however that we both made our sides of the argument known with only one insult thrown between us. Maybe next time we could shoot for zero, that way one of us might be able to make a more compelling argument without stooping to such depths.

Spoiler:

too much to ask, I know

I was speaking idiomatically.

I will laugh if the Sharks make the Finals. Who would they bring out for their ceremonial puck drops? Who would they fete as their all-time great players? Pat Falloon? Owan Nolan? Sandis Ozolinsh? Arturs Irbe? Jeff Friesen? Marco Sturm? (See how well that'll go over if they end up facing the Bruins. )

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Penguins fans are feeling around in the dark, looking for the floor right now. It can't come soon enough, and I don't think it will come without any trades or firings.

FELIPE NO

Shero's right, moving players for the sake of moving them isn't going to be beneficial in both the short-term and long-term.

For what it's worth, Satan and Staal are second and fourth on the team in points after the Superpowers. At lot of the guys are underperforming for whatever reason and it is more likely due to a lack of motivation (which should be coming from behind the bench). Therrien has never felt comfortable for me and I don't think he'll be around by the time the season comes to an end.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Capo

He makes up for it with the boost in ticket sales he provides among female fans. The man's a bona fide ladykiller.

Pictures of Miroslav Satan are illegal in one state (New York) and one Canadian province (Alberta), and legislation is currently being discussed in the Pennsylvania congress.

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Well, here we are, All-Star break. Definitely two of the biggest surprises in the NHL are in the Eastern Conference and they are the Bruins and the Penguins.

Boston is threatening to break their record for points in a single-season while challenging San Jose for the President's Trophy, and are currently doing it in dominating fashion. They are second in the league in goals for and first in goals against, and Tim Thomas and Manny Fernandez are both in the top four in goals against average and save percentage. The depth in both the scoring lines and the defensive six, plus the Baby B's stepping up, have been so key for this team. Will they hold it together for a good Cup run? I figure they will at least make the Conference finals. (Sorry, Deni...I don't want to get TOO optimistic here.)

As for my team, the Penguins, they are the definition of average this season. Despite having the top two scorers in the league, their goaltending and defense have been (what else?) shoddy. They need Fleury to find the rhythm he had in the latter part of last season or they might not even get into contention.

In fact, everyone needs to get their act together. I'm looking at you, JORDAN STAAL. They didn't re-up you because you're cute.

I mean, that might have been part of it.

Did you see the picture of Satan up above? YEESH.

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