[Wii] Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tournament Discussion

Lukage, the idea behind tournament rules is to make things fair for everyone. Believe it or not. Which is probably the one aspect about a tournament scene worth noting that gets lost when you have a community run by retards or scrutinized by non-participants. Gotta love people who insist on playing with tourney rules in non-tournament environments. Again, I find it interesting that most people who hate the tournament scene aren't participants in the first place and really only came to feel that way when either one magical player in their life tried to thrust them into that playstyle like an asshole... or they were just getting sensationalized along with everyone else who just reads about it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Smash Bros. is an anomaly for "fair", Chaotic. Because the game is pretty much fun to some people because it's a gigantic randomizer. It's meant to be massive chaos when played with many features. When you start to take away from that formula as a player who plays for realz, you step on the toes of other players. My only gripe is that if you aren't playing in the tournament fag tournaments... don't fucking worry about them, then.

If you were playing any game other than Smash Bros, you probably wouldn't be in this situation. The way it looks, at the moment, it's hard to decide what's fair to anyone here other than "Anything goes."

There's nowhere I can't reach.

PROTIP: MATCH THESE CUUUUUUUUUH-RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY-ZEEEEEEEEE FAGS UP AND CALL IT ANYTHING GOES!

Just trying to help the cause, Slash. And honestly, you guys throwing in "Well, maybe just ban items" or "This ONE stage should be banned" aren't helping. Just follow the protip, play who you're going to play, and call it a day. Your job is insanely easy, Chaotic, you don't have tourney players here and everyone just really wants to have a good time with bracket structure. Give the people what they want.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

As long as there's majority agreement in how you want the tournament run, then the people in the minority will either have to deal with it or not play. If you guys are going to go ahead with your currently established ideas, that's great! As long as you can get a decent body of participants who also agree, this shit will get off the ground and the people who are playing are gonna have a hell of a good time.

That's what this is all about.

That's kind of why the tournament scene can keep going, even in the face of staunch criticism. Because they have a majority of people who will still support the cause, even if a few people here and there are butthurt about how some people want to play.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Lukage

So basically you agree with what I said while also insulting me, implying that I don't play the game (I will assume this based on the fact that I have not added you guys to my friend list).

Uh, no, I disagree with your reasoning entirely and to infer I do agree with you is more of an insult than anything I've mentioned previously. And I didn't insult you, you're trying to read into things that aren't there. I made a general statement, if you feel it applies to you, then perhaps you should be evaluating yourself and how you feel about this issue.

Quote:

The more restrictive rules, the less fair it is.

You're generalizing. Tournament rules are formulated to even the playing field, not to "restrict it to the advantage of certain players."

I was speaking idiomatically.

Rome wasn't built in a day. How long was the interest held in that? I THREW THE MOTHERFUCKING PROTIP UP, YOU FAGS JUST HAD TO TRY AND SPICE THINGS UP.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Lukage

I fail to see how picking out which maps you don't like based on a bias towards one character (or type) is fair. I bet I could find on EVERY map an advantage that certain characters have. The only rule that works in terms of being "fair" is no items.

It's not based on what anyone likes, Lukage. And that's what you don't understand. Final Destination is popular because it was a flat surface and no items means no surprises. No one picked it based on "Oh, I'm Fox so I'll kick ass on this stage", people realized how good Fox and Falco are on that stage based off it being the only goddamned stage they played on. It's just how things turned out with so much play dedicated to one area.

Again, I don't let the fact that Smash Bros is a game marred by several different interests blind me from the fact that tournaments are an investment with payoff given by how much people are willing to put in. If you guys just want to play NOW, just do matchmaking or some shit. Having a tournament "for fun" without any time investment defeats the purpose of having one in the first place. You might as well just organize games every weekend, because that seems to be all you need.

And Mo0, of course Rome wasn't deoxyribonucleic acid. Seriously, you're all going to get out of this what you put into it, so if you want it to happen RIGHT NOW then there's no investment there. I feel like I'm watching you guys sabotage the event right out the gate with the whole "Fuck this" attitude.

I appreciate the idea of "clans" picking random "rules", that shit sounds fun. I realize that interest to stick around might be fickle, so some of you are just gonna have to stick around then, now aren't you? Change and growth start at home, not with everyone else. If you don't like "tourneyfags", then don't be "those" people and don't concern yourselves with how they play. If you want to make a short little tournament, then that's exactly what you're going to get.

I think you give the attention span of players at GFF too little credit. You've all got to start somewhere. I realize there's backlash against the "tourneyfags"... but the fact of the matter is that no one here is playing them or has any inclination to play them. So stop worrying about things that don't even concern you and try to be constructive about this tournament. You're gonna get what you put in, lumps, bumps, waiting, and everything else that happens before we get this shit going.

tl;dr: You get what you put in, Lukage doesn't know about competitive play, LET'S DO OUR GANBARE BEST TO MAKE THIS HERE TOURNAMENT WORK.

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I think "I kicked all your asses" is incentive enough in this case, but that's just me. This is, first and foremost, about fun. There are some good ideas here, though. And I think given time, you can have a unique event for GFF rather than just "all items, all levels, let's go." That can be fun, too, don't get me wrong... but you guys can make this thing your own if you just give it time. Shit, make a sub-forum, have polls... it might seem ridiculous at first, but what could it really hurt?

It doesn't matter if anyone disagrees with me, because for the most part, aside from me talking to Lukage, this is really all just about trying to make a compelling argument for patience.

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Originally Posted by Chaotic

BTW, Rotor, are you participating in this?

Depends on when I'm no longer on lockdown. I own Brawl... no Wii yet, though.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Tritoch

Wait, so a good bit of the argument here is coming from someone who's not even participating?

Mitigating circumstances, pal.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Tritoch

but there's no point in getting up in arms about the rules until you can.

If you're talking, you're a target. As long as what I contribute is constructive, and if I am going to join in on your shenanigans there's no reason why I shouldn't have some influence early on.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Chaotic

Well you should've mentioned that earlier before any of us started to get at you for butting in on something that you weren't even technically in yet. I probably would've flipped a shit on you if I didn't ask that question.

It's been mentioned elsewhere, actually. But again, you're not some fucking expert here on setting up a tournament. You're telling me you'd turn down constructive advise from a non-participant? That's extremely short sighted, man.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

u maaaaad, Lukage? Don't be , be glad!

Seriously, man, what's with the outburst? I'm not the master of "competitive play", but I'm certainly well-read in comparison to the shit you spout off at the mouth about. From what I know, I can't say if it's actual gospel or not, the "pros" tend to play a game without banning anything for a good period of time, usually doing what SuperSonic suggested and just giving it time to see how the game plays out. Usually this pans out which strategies are viable for characters, clearing up strengths and weaknesses, and in the case of "banning"... which ones destroy variety.

Rarely is anything ever completely banned in a fighting game that's played "For serious reals competitively" unless it brings the game down to a 1 Dimensional shit fest. Again, Smash Bros. is an anomaly, because by its design it's meant to be random chaos. So it rubs people the wrong way when things are taken away, because much of that stuff that's taken away is what makes the game so appealing in the first place.

The "right" way, again from what I've read, is just to let things play out naturally and learn more about the game as you get better. I see you want to call me a tourney faggot, good for you. People, such as yourself, get so fucking pissed off because those of us willing to invest in the game and not actually be faggots about it get just a "little" bit more out of the experience. Take a trip to Sirlin.net — Your source of shocking insights on game design and read his "Playing to Win" series. Hell, just read his thoughts on game design.

I'm not gonna force any of that on anyone here, I'm just trying to help out the attempts. But to be honest, it's already been made clear that my input isn't personally helping Chaotic. So I'm gonna stay in the background until I get a Wii, and then I'll concern myself with whatever pick up games GFF is having with Brawl. Still, I see a lot of misconceptions regarding play and it all seems to stem from Smash Bros. Which is why I enjoy playing games with just a bit more structure to them and clearer house rules. But Brawl is what it is, a fun game that means many things to many different players.

Anyway, I'll see myself out, thank you. Carry on, folks.

I was speaking idiomatically.