C/C++

Very little code for Windows is actually written in asm. Sure, the base pieces of Windows are for new editions, but those are largely untouched between version updates. It is much easier to write a great compiler once and then write everything else in a higher-level language.

Just about the only reason asm is even taught in universities anymore is because it helps broaden the understanding of how computers operate, and not much else.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by x86

I'm on the opinion C# would be THE language both for application developent and OS development if it was optimized to the degree of C/C++, allowed asm keyword for inline assembler, function calling convention mangling, forced inline keyword and native code generation.
Array bounds checking, the string implementation, and its clean syntax makes C# very neat, even better than Java since it allows gotos and pointers (not recommended maybe, but they SHOULD be even for a last resort).

Well, you can turn on ultra-optimization when compiling C# code or you can even use a non-VS compiler. I believe, and don't quote me on this because I used VS.NET/C# very shortly after it appeared, but I beliee you can write C code, or, at least, call C functions from a C# program, meaning that you can do whatever the hell you want at a lower level. Now, I never tried asm, but I believe you can either do that through C.

Java doesn't allow goto because it is not a procedural language. goto does not mean that C# has a cleaner syntax. You can say that nothing in Java is a pointer because you aren't allowed to manipulate them directly, but, really, everything in Java is a pointer.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Yeah but, and this might only be true in VS.NET, there was an easy way to disarm those restrictions. So perhaps it only relates to C# as it is in a .NET environment but, really, last I checked it hadn't branched out beyond that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It doesn't even make sense to say that compiler had a good API. :\ If you mean the documentation, uh, no. Java still is king.

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Optimization, it is an incredibly common thing to have C code call external functions written in asm.

How ya doing, buddy?

But vim+make isn't an IDE, so that doesn't really count.

Eclipse came out near the end of my college career, so I didn't really get into it, being set in my ways, but a few of my student teachers turned me on to it. Had I stuck with programming and Java, I would have made the switch to it eventually.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

There are many applications where any improvement is worth it. Consider a program which is run billions of time every day versus the time it takes to code a function once.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by vincent_ray21

More program especially business program doesn't need to run very efficient that it must be written in assembly. It's the logic and algorithm that count. Even you use assembly but the logic takes n * n to finish(I don't know how to write n square). It will be defeated by a logic that takes log n, n or evenn * log n written in latest language

You're right that a good algorithm is the most important factor in a runtime, but you don't have to write a whole program in ASM. You can write small functions in ASM that your code in a higher-level language calls to get around compiler imperfections.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I'll believe that when I see it. Java is a proprietary dead end. It's C++ with all the good bits stripped out and replaced with junk.

C++ has no good "bits". That's what people like about it, it is basically nothing, allowing users to do whatever they want with no protection whatsoever.

Java is very important, I think the 3rd most used language (outside of C and C++). Sun, as a caretaker, has gone to vast lengths to improve it, there is one single body to make changes to the language and they never make poor decisions. I think it is still the easiest language to learn (not just the language itself, but it is easy to learn concepts in), so it definitely has its educational purposes.

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Originally Posted by Soluzar

I'll agree to that, and it's this functionality that has been removed from Java, which is ringfenced, and protected.

There is very little functionality that has been removed from Java that doesn't involve hackish programming. Sure, it is a pain in the ass (though possible in many cases) to alter memory directly, but, oftentimes, a person is programming quite poorly in C++ if they are taking that approach.

Originally Posted by Soluzar

Proprietary. That's a dirty word in programming circles. I'll agree it has educational value, but I wouldn't use Visual Basic, and I won't use Java. Same reason.

Well, it's dirty, but why? If Sun wasn't taking good care of Java (they are rather famous for taking good suggestions of users and implementing them) I can see that being a problem, but it's no less a problem than a consortium having to agree on changes, which leads to little innovation generally.

Jam it back in, in the dark.