[PC] Of Spock and Communism: Civ IV Succession Game

Discussion of Baba Yetu reminded me I had this game, and a game or two later, how much I hate that bitch Isabella. In that spirit, putting forward the idea of a succession game of Civilization IV.

Game Has Started - Current Player's Turn - Pang

We are currently at 6 interested players with 5 player slots.

Turn order progresses as listed below. Reserves are for players who drop.



Basic Concept
For those who haven't tried succession games:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Succession games are games played by a team of several players, often with some variant. Each player plays about 10 turns at a time, with discussion between sets.

Basically, we rotate doing 10 turns a piece, then posting pictures and descriptions of what happened during our turns. Roleplay as the leader, bare bones info, stream of consciousness. Whatever you like, as long as the game progresses.

Turn Progression
From a lower post, the general turn order is:

Quote:

- Get save game file from prior player (emailed or uploaded to a website)
- Play your 10 turns (remembering to make images of important / funny stuff)
- Mail / Upload save file from completed turn.
- Create a post on GFF describing what happened during your turn.

Game Setup
Since I'm a bit out of practice, I'm proposing a game with the settings of:

Version: Civ IV vanilla (patched up to 1.74 [found at Firaxis])

• Note: Some folks with DirectX9 older than August 2007 may need to have THESE DLLs extracted to their Civ IV base directory for the 1.74 patch.

Difficulty: Noble
Scenario: Custom Continents (3 continents)
Size: Standard (normal enemy slots)
Victory Conditions: Conquest, Domination, Space Race (screw timeouts, culture, and diplomacy)
Variants: None
Time Limit: 1 day to post "Got It" and 2 days to submit turn report and post game file for download.

If we have a lot of interest, I'll be capping it at five regular players plus extras if we have drops.
We have our five starting players, we are now taking reserves for players who drop.

For leader and civilization, I'm open to anything with a reasonable strategy behind it. I like Roosevelt and his Ind/Org combo, but am also interested in trying out Mali with Spi/Fin and seeing if we could get a single city with multiple founded religions.

Current Players:
Araes
Pangalin
Rychord
Turbo
Hawkeye

Reserves:
Zergrinch

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I personally just tend to find culture victories very anti-climactic, much like timeout victories. Plus, they always seem to have the good timing of happening right as the panzers are cresting that last hill before the fields of Paris.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Vivi: Although Zerg did already provide a nice link, to answer specifics, a general turn would go:

- Get save game file from prior player (emailed or uploaded to a website)
- Play your 10 turns (remembering to make images of important / funny stuff)
- Mail / Upload save file from completed turn.
- Create a post on GFF describing what happened during your turn.

Ex - 150 AD: "Before the 1000 horns of our victorious legions, the people of Rome fled, and as response for the spite of Caesar and his idiotic demands for tribute we salted the earth, pillaged their lands, and spat on his throne" (Captured Rome, Sacked Rome, Eliminated Caesar / Romans)

Hawkeye / Zerg: Don't worry too much about the skill requirement in this. If we win, that's great, but its mostly just about having fun playing Civ and seeing all the crazy stuff other folks do. Plus, there will be other people playing who can offer advice. You can do that in the game thread, or do things like put Pings on the map that note good places to build or offer advice for the next player.

You've got two days for your turn, so if something bad happens like "Oh god, barbarians everywhere, no city defense, gah!" then you can ask folks what to do.

Zerg: Nothing wrong with a peaceful win, which is why I left space in. I just wanted to leave the win options where people are doing things every turn. Makes for more interesting posts. Personally, I tend to be a mid-game warmonger, rushing tech until I hit cavalry and then spamming them, rifleman, and grenadiers. However, going for horse archers, knights, and longbowmen isn't a bad path for an earlier version either.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Good to hear Vivi, I'll add you to the list. Hawkeye, I'll see what I can do on the no-cd front, as I may be able to locate the right one. Probably be Monday though before I can devote some time to that search. Also, may not need a full week for signups if there is this much interest.

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Question for those signed up, since people appear to be using hacks: Is patching up to 1.74 is going to be impossible?

I wanted to do it, because it renders more efficiently and speeds up the game, but if that can't be done, we can always go with a flat 1.0 version.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I was thinking more with the no-cd's, as those often have a version they've been created to replace. My impression was Vivi and Hawkeye were both using no-cd's for a specific version.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Alright, with Krelian we're at, and then Furret we're past the number of folks I was interested in having as steady players. I'd like to keep it to five just so we actually get a chance to do turns with some regularity. My apologies on that Furret. However, I can put you in as a reserve and if we have someone drop or have other difficulties you can jump right in.

As far as a starting, I don't normally do Financial, so I'm thinking about a leader that has that. Washington's one choice, as he is Fin/Org. Plus, America starts with fishing, so coastal starts are actually useful immediately.

On timing, since we're up to 7 players already, how would you folks feel about starting a little earlier, maybe a first post by Wednesday night? All the way to next Sat. seems a little extreme now. I'd lead and the turn order would progress as listed on the front page. Me->Pang->Hawk->Vivi->Krelian->Me with reserves as needed.

FELIPE NO

Fair enough, I'll move you to the end of the order Hawkeye, and good to know Pang. Revised the order would be:

Areas
Pangalin
The Wise Vivi
Krelian
Hawkeye

Edit: Also, mind if I ask what's going wrong with your game Hawkeye?

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Yeah, if you've been playing on Settler that would make quite a bit of difference, as the upkeep and inflation rate are both a lot worse on higher difficulties. One of the main things is just making sure you get a really solid base early and then being choosy with your expansion after that point. Getting one (or two if lucky) of the early religions can be a huge boon there, as you can build their special building with a priest, and then give that religion to every one of your cities. Even on noble, if you go Meditation then Polytheism you have a very good chance of getting Hinduism, as most races go for Buddhism. Plus, if you build one of the religious wonders first (like the Oracle or Stonehenge) then you can almost guarantee your first Great Person will be a priest.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Adding you Turbo, although as noted in the first post, we're at the point where we've got the five base slots filled up, so now we're taking reserves if people drop on the game. I'll put you on that list.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Civ4 Game Starting.

“In the beginning, the Earth was without form, and void…”

- First off, I have chosen the Americans as our starting race, and decided to go with Washington so that we would have Financial/Organized as our traits. Should help with the money. For the post, I’m writing as the man on the ground, but I’ll offset with - for the quick skim notes.

In the Land of Loincloths

His is a great and terrible voice, and I reel in confusion at the power of its words and the visions they inspire. Yet their presence is fleeting, and my awakening is only hastened by the tumult around me. 20-30 thick necked thugs mill about on a hill behind me, while ahead, what looks to be a mob of 100’s argue over something of apparently great importance.

Turning to look for a moment at the thugs, they all seem rather amazed at my presence and come over to inspect my still prone form. They gesture and ask me how I snuck up on them and how I passed their guards, and why I wear such strange hides, while picking me over. I am still reeling from the visions of fire though, and can only tell them of the great voice in the dark and the terrible void that it spoke of. Fortunately or not, this appears to cause quite a stir, and before I can blink there is talk that I must be a wise one, or chosen, or something of that like.

Of course, not everyone is an immediate believer, and the loudest of the bunch struts that “If this newcomer is so wise, perhaps he can solver our great dilemma, and point the way to the land of our promise?” Feeling that my time among these people may be very short on the wrong answer, and not knowing what else to do, I look around for a few moments, and then respond “Why not right here? There appear to be ample fields over yonder, broad forests right here, and a wide expanse of water for the use of those spears I see some of you carry.”

- Overall, damn good starting location for a race with Fin/Org traits, and which starts with Fishing. We’ve got Wheat to the West, Dye to the East, Forests, Hills, and tons of fishing water



My supporters take up the cry of “settlement now” with gusto, and I could almost hug them. In talking, it appears that they’ve been on the road for a while, and mister contrary of earlier has been the main one keeping them moving. Before long, they’ve got the whole group organized and off working, and a small settlement begins to take shape. One of the men from earlier, who apparently has been appointed to talk to the wise one approaches me and asks what they should call it, and I respond, “I’ve always like the name Washington.”

- First Settlement Founded: Washington (for now)



In the same motion, and while I am still on a roll and have the people’s support, I mention that perhaps we should send the milling hulks off to “explore our land” as they seem to be the biggest base of support for the contrary fellow, and having them out of the picture will make things all the better. They grumble and moan, but with the support of the people, are soon on their way. Simultaneously, I start talking with other youths among our flock who might serve as more malleable replacements.

- Exploring with Warriors. Building a Warrior – probably to explore further



At first I was worried that I might have chosen poorly. Despite my best intentions, I could not find anything that appeared to actually be food where we had settled. Yet, late last night a boy came to me and brought with him a dinner of some curvy wafer. I asked him where he had found it, and he said that they came out of everything around here. They hung off the plants on the plains, they seemed to spring from the fish when cut open, even and rocks and trees could be cut into them. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen.

He seemed to be a wise and capable kid, and gave me some hope for these people, but not for long. The next day I found that the best of their workers busy trying to pull down trees with their bare hands. All this while their perfectly good fishing spears sat going to waste. My rage was horrible, and I probably should have restrained myself, but I told them the forests were precious to the voice and to get their dirty fingers down by the lake where they could contemplate on its wonder while they did something useful.

- Shifted resources to Fresh Water square, as they’re retarded, and set the default action to emphasize commerce in Washington. Also chose to start researching Mysticism.



Much to my chagrin, the choice to send the thugs abroad appears to have backfired, and Mr. Contrary was full of himself today with the news that his supporters had found great stores of finely workable stones on their travels. While I hate the bearer, I love the news, as it will make the projects for these people I have considered all the easier when they are begun. Monuments to my greatness for eons to come.

- Kick Ass. We have stone just to the West of our starting location. Stonehenge and Pyramids, here we come.



Years, have passed since last I made these scratches. After their great discovery to the West, the noise of the thugs was quiet for longer than I dared to hope, and the process of crafting our home moved along well. Well beyond a tent city now, we have a firm core of small buildings and more are created every day. The people seem to breed like rabbits eating the wafers of fish, and it is almost more that we can do to keep them in house and home.

I still worry about the fishermen though, as they seem to be touched in the head. One came to me in private the other day and said that he had made a wonderful revelation about the voice, saying that it longed for gifts of green waterskins to be thrown to the lake, and that each such gift brought them closer to true understanding. Of course, he’s dead now, but I could not stop the idea, and while I walk, I see them atop their poles, and astride their crude boats, throwing the spears with one hand, and tossing work away with the other. Fools, the lot of them.

A runner of the thugs has also arrived while I walked. He announces that they spotted wild animals over an uncrossable expanse of water, and then moved within the shadowed valley between two great mountains. More importantly though, he says that they see a small community of people at the base on the other side. He asks what we should do, and I indicate mercy and absorption if possible.

- Saw Pig resource and after moving through mountains, a Tribal Village



It appears my intuition was correct. As the thugs entered the village, they were greeted with cheers and happiness. They spread the good word of what we were accomplishing across the mountains from these simple people, and promised friendship and protection if possible. In return, the people showed them a tool which had been passed down from their forefathers, but which they thought might help our great society – the Wheel. Mr. Contrary’s star just got all the brighter.

- Damn this is getting to be a lucky start. Gained Free Technology. The Wheel.



Apparently, when it rains it pours. With more “good” news to share, another of those poor, touched fishermen announces to the whole settlement that their sun delirium has resulted in amazing understanding of the ways of the cosmos, and that the voice wants nothing more than our love. Right. I can do little more than agree in such a public setting, and find that this mystic thought has taken on a life of its own. My walks by the lake now wade through ranks of petitioners all wanting to take part in the “great hunt for the truth.” And worst of all, humming constantly.

- Successfully researched Mysticism.



- In a risky move, I have chosen to Research Meditation. The computer always goes for Meditation, but if you can beat them, which I think we can with our research output, then you can claim Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism in a 1, 2, 3 grab, and keep them from having religion for several thousand years. Here’s hoping the risk pays off…



Thankfully, while the young and foolish are swept up in this new rush for understanding, it all settles into a semblance of order relatively quickly, and I am able to live out most of my middle years in the peace and quiet of a smoothly running society. Mr. Contrary and I have been on such good terms for the last several years, that I don’t even notice trouble when he arrives one morning with a glint in his eye, and drops his news on me. His followers abroad have sighted yet another village, and are planning to move in bearing their Wheel of Friendship, and touting our virtues.

- Yet MORE Tribal Villagers are sighted only 3 spaces from the other group.



Caught unawares by his announcement, and feeling I’ve become too complacent in my older age, I wonder where the time has gone. I can but agree that his approach sounds right, and to send them in. A few months later, runners come streaming into the settlement carrying even better news for Contrary, although he is now nearly as old as I - his thugs have been blessed with gifts of further knowledge. This time, the secrets of delving the Earth. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

- Literally swore at my screen. Another Free Tech? Mining this time.



As I make this last scratch, I am gathering my things, and the totems of our tribe, so that I may pass them over to a fitting recipient from the people of our settlement. Too long have I warred with the gruff face of Contrary, and our endless duels have sapped the last of my energy for the job. I wandered in out of the blue as a wise man, but with the upheavals and excitement I’ve seen, now I think I’d like to just spend my time by the lake, humming away my last few years in peace.

- An overview of the world as we currently know it while I hand over the reins. That is probably the luckiest start I have ever seen in terms of good resources, good research, and lucky breaks on the Tribal Villages.



- The first Warrior is almost done, and there’s still tons of black on all sides. We’re also really close to finishing Meditation, and maybe founding Buddhism. Successful or not, my next thought would be to go for Hinduism. Honestly not sure if we need to be religious yet, as the +1 happiness doesn’t do much for a bit, and we’d lose that turn of anarchy. I'm torn on whether to go for a settler soon, or to wait and make another warrior. If we want to use the stone we're going to need one eventually. Think I might wait to city size 3, as that "might" get us two or more religions in one city.

Save Game File for BC 3600
BC3600 Save File

Your turn Pang

How ya doing, buddy?

If you're bowing out Vivi, then that means its Krelian's turn instead. Also, Turbo or Zergrinch, which one of you would like to fill the slot left by Vivi's departure? Depending on when you respond, your turn will hopefully either be inserted after Krelian's or Hawkeye's.

It should be noted that the level of detail in my and Pang's posts is not absolutely necessary. If all you can muster is some quick screenshots with captions about what happened, that's fine. You should not feel you need to write an epic.

Also, I personally just used Paint to shrink images down to the correct size.

Hawkeye: We are just using the Print Screen button. When you do this, it drops the screenshots into your My Documents/My Games folder unless you manually specified this to be somewhere else.

Pang: Nice writeup and with the comment about stones at the end, does that mean we're going for Masonry now?

Since we've beaten them to two religions now, we may want to shift back to using some trees to cut the Monastery production time down.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Turbo

I'll hop in sure

Thanks Turbo, glad to have you as a regular. Your turn will be up after Krelian submits then, as Hawkeye was saying he didn't want to go until the weekend at least.

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Well, if Krelian goes before you leave, then you can go, otherwise we'll just have it be Hawkeye's turn and you can go after him. Thanks for the warning though.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Krelian, coming up on your two days for taking a turn. If Sunday rolls around, and you still haven't gone, its going to have to switch over to Hawkeye so we can keep this thing moving.

FELIPE NO

Sorry to hear that about the laptop, and thanks for telling us what's going on.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Honestly, I'm beginning to think we need another town to buffer us, because at this point, if we're going to split production, and have one city be a wonder machine while the other ones continue with actual useful production, we're going to need to start it soon before we lose too many of the good early wonders to computers. We'll also need protection for them, as I'm worried that the animal -> barbarian swap is coming soon.

On research, I might go bronze working, so we can see if we have bronze nearby. If we do, then we can go for Hunting and make spearmen, otherwise we'll need Archery to get archers. After that, my thoughts lean towards priesthood or agriculture, as we don't appear to have any animals near us that need cultivation. Fishing won't be immediately useful because we're on an inland lake, which doesn't benefit from lighthouses. I agree that a worker for chop-hurrying of production will be useful.

Anyhow, those are my strat thoughts.

Edit: Also, I really want a religious wonder at some point here, because we need our first GP to be a Great Priest so we can get one of the religious special buildings. The Monastery we built will help ensure this, but I still worry.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm an expansionist at heart, so I'd say after the granary finishes up would be great. Also, if we're really close to getting a city growth when it finishes (like 1 turn) then wait for it. After that I'd start in on all the other stuff I wrote. With timing / luck, we might get bronze working when the settler finishes, and be able to aim him at a bronze deposit.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, as I'm the next one up, I'll just PM you an email to send it to. If you want it public, you could also do something like rapidshare, sendspace, or you could sign up for one of the free websites that offer X amount of hosting. I tend to find the last option useful for posting pictures, in many cases, as long as they allow direct linking.

Edit: Also, not an issue on the strategy. We'll go on and that's half the fun of playing this way. You get to play with a style that's not just yours over and over. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to be able to check this til tomorrow, as I've got to take off.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Hawkeye: Could you resend the save file for the turn. I stupidly transposed the e and a in my email address, so some random guy probably just got a Civ4 save file. I've resent you a PM as well with the correct email. Also, nice writeup, and should be able to take my turn tonight or tomorrow depending on save file.

Shin: If you're interested in joining up, I can always put you on the reserves for this one. We've already had a couple people have to drop in and out. If not, I'll put you onto a future game.

How ya doing, buddy?

Received, I'll try to take my turn tonight and post it up tomorrow with some luck.

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A storm was brewin’ and the world was quakin’ that night I set out from the town some men call Freewheeler’s Paradise in search of my fortune. Money, power, and a girl with green eyes. These were my goals, and hell to the ape that stood in my way. Our histories told us of powerful men who came through the Pillars of Heaven and brought with them tales of a land by the Bowl of the Gods, and it was down this path that I rode. All around me I could see the signs of these people, and their paths marked the world at every step. Travelers to lands even the luckiest man might never see.

- Starting out, we’ve got warriors spread over the world. As the Western horde is incredibly weak, and have nowhere to go, I’m going to switch them with home, and send home out North. Washington’s at 5, and stopped growth while it builds.



With a quick step, and a wind at my back, I made good time, and in only a few weeks had crested the pass of the pillars and come face to face with the realm of the foreigners. Their reach had grown since last word reached my people, and now touched the very feet of the pillars themselves. Before me spread the Bowl of the Gods, and nearly at its center waited my destiny – Washington. A further week of brisk march brought me down those wind swept hills, and to the edge of its walls. Yet, as I arrived, I found not the shining bastion of the legends, but a city in disarray, lost without a head. Seemed all they could do was breed and trudge through their tasks without a lord at the helm, and their last had died only a few months past. Worse, there was a disease in the air, a disease of the spirit. Anger simmered just below the surface of a city who’d sent its most shining examples abroad.

- Washington’s finishing up a Worker, and not growing. The people are near Angry status because they don’t have defenders. We’re pretty much set up for building right now, and it will stay that way for a bit.



I was amazed that no one had risen from the people to take the reins of this beast, but maybe they were too busy scrawlin’ words in dung on the walls of their homes. I’d never been one to look a gift swine in the mouth. Grabbin’ me a few boys with a shine in their eyes, I marched to that hill that overlooks the water, where past leaders have surveyed the world around, and told the crowd that had begun to follow in my wake that there was a new law in town. My word was the rule, and they’d best look to obey. Sheep the lot it seemed, as they rolled like tumbleweeds in a storm. Still, to keep my base solid, and make sure they stayed docile, I sent out that our weakened boys to the West would be given a reprieve, and mothers might finally see their lost sons again. Cheers resounded from the waters.

- Bringin’ home the western Warriors.



Next up was the issue of those curs who I’d passed on my way into town. They’d looked a mean lot, perhaps fine men in their time, but life of weakness near the city had let them go to seed. With pomp and affair I told them that each man would be given a piece of any new land that they might find and claim for our glory, but that only those with bravery enough to seek to the North would be given this chance. Craven as they were, few could pass the promise of wealth, and I’m sure some thought to found new lands far from our reach. Foolish thoughts. Nowhere is beyond the reach of the wheels of America.

- As part of the plan to swap the Warriors, I’m sending these ones back out.



Like a story of the light and the dark, their good twin was tireless in the pursuit of the glory of our land, and had driven themselves at length to the far edges of the world to spread our message. Seemed maybe they needed a reprieve.

- The Northern warriors have gotten pretty far out, and missed some black, so I’m going to cut back and uncover that last bit.



For several years, the land was quite, winters were mild, and the dissent of the people was calm, like the idle before the gale. But on a cold day in spring, a boy not higher than my shoulder brought grave news. A crafty witch to the North, who’s lands constantly encroached on the lands of my fathers, the people of the Wheel, had stolen the magic of the Gods from our great nation, and was spreading their message to her own. We would have to have words.

Almost the same time, a second man, much greyer and wiser of the world, came to my home. The great horde of the North had sent news, sighting of yet another tribe who had not heard the fine word. Hearing the stories in youth of first meeting, I could only hope this new generation was equal to those who had greeted my people, and been gifted with our works. I sent word to offer peace.

- Village sighted and Hashepsut, that bitch, stole the idea of Buddhism from us (even though we’re not religious)



I wasn’t long to wait for their reply. In the calm of morning, where the air is so still you can feel its weight about your crown, a lone figure walked the path to our spread. Aloft in his hand he carried a shining spear, worked as if from shafts of sunlight. I immediately set our wise men to thinking of ways to use this fine gift.

- Except for those filth corrupted by the Egyptians, Villagers all love the Americans. Free Tech – Bronze Working. Kind of a pain, since we were researching it, but still six or so free turns, so I start in on Hunting.



Half a year later, my wisdom is told in the streets, as our spies bring word of trouble abroad. Restless breeds in the countryside, and inbred vagrants pick up sticks against us. I mean to meet them with shafts of amber, forged a thousandfold.

- The Animal to Barbarian switch is here. Future leaders may need to protect our people soon.



My message is clear to the wise among us, and their return is swift. Techniques of combat they bring me for men of the spear, and light of foot. The plague of the bar’ bars will ne’er touch these shores.

- Wise men finish Hunting technology.



With all of this progress abroad, and in the realm of the mind, I have noted that the lands of prosperity have been left to their own devices. Not so any longer. A decree goes out, and the able bodied are brought, willing or otherwise, to do the work that my word has given. Foremost, I worry that our supplies are limited for such a great land, if we are to expand our reach. Toward this end, I direct them to build great constructions of timber and stone to redirect the Bowl of the Gods and increase the bounty of the land where grass grows tall.

- Workers built, Settlers started. Workers sent to the Wheat plot so they can start a Farm. After that, I was going to have them build a mine on the stone, and roads to the whole mess.



It is this thought of expansion which brings my mind back to why I came to this land in the first place, and to how distracted I have become. Money and Power have become mine, but the girl with the green eyes still eludes me. While I love this land, and its simple people, I know that she will never be found here. Talk is afoot of stores of the amber ore to the East, and many speak of building a new hub of America’s progress to harvest these riches. Perhaps in the surrounding lands I’ll find that elusive lady.

- Didn’t notice at first, but Bronze popped right next to us. We ought to build a city here and get to it, since we already control the stone.



With my thoughts now wandering far afield, I take a last look at the world of the conquerors I have held charge of, and see that it is in good state. The boys I sent for long ago have nearly returned to protect their people, the wise men speak of amazing rods which can make shafts leap through the air, and our expeditions abroad have made excellent progress. People even tell stories of a brilliant rock far to the North they call “silver”. Life is good, and on a dark night that bears the promise of storms like the ones I swept in on, I set foot to land once more, and trek on in search of that girl of legend.

- Overview of Warrior and Resource status. I have also named out some areas that might be potential city spots.




SAVE FILE LINKAGE
BC 1560

Additional Spam:
Strat - Although my alter ego is all about spears and such, I actually think we can survive with a fortified Warrior for a little while against the bar bars. If we can get stone, I'd actually like to try building a wonder. Stonehenge is only 12 turns with stone or the Oracle would give us yet another free tech of our choice. Metallurgy might be a good choice.

Rychord: I have added you to the reserves.

Turbo: Your question really depends on what type of game you're going for as far as optimal setup. I like Organized, because at higher difficulties, the money savings scale with you, so you end up getting more return. Since I'm expansionistic, Organized also works as Courthouses are cheaper, and the penalties of lots of towns is reduced. I agree that Industrious is useful, as I tend to try and outproduce the enemy with at least one city devoted to making Wonders. In general, I prefer inland starts next to rivers, but seaside starts aren't bad, if you've got the right stuff like we do. Fishing + Financial.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Too bad the only source of marble we've discovered is so far away.

Also, depending on how peaceful we feel like being, looks like pig could be a major export if we choose to go that route.

Marble and Stone both always seem to be pains to obtain early in the game. I was surprised as hell we actually had a source right near us. I'm not sure why the randomizer's preference is to stick marble out in the arctic wastes.

With as much Pig as we may have available, I guess it will come down to whether the potential bonuses (health I think) are worth it over the trade we can wrangle. I'm not very happy with our only neighbor for sneaking buddhism from us though.

And yes, Vanilla is meant to imply normal Civ4, no expansions. The patches are independent.

I sent Pang a quick note, and he's still got a reasonable amount of time, so hopefully he'll see this soon enough.

FELIPE NO

Krelian's turn is up.

You're probably right about the bronze city location, as there's really no need to be that far North, and if I remember right, the city creation gets rid of the jungle negative. Can't remember whether there were a lot of other ones nearby. Plus, once we have Iron we can just chop them down. I tend to just put cities out at the edge of the contact range because the computer normally arranges resources in a star pattern.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Since Krelian has yet to take his turn, and I don't want this to stagnate, Turbo, feel free to take the turn.

Jam it back in, in the dark.