Why do some people regard nintendo as "kiddy"

Hurray for violence! If Pikmin were replaced with men, and the enemies were replaced with tanks, it'd be the exact same game, but rated M and have twice the sales.

Originally Posted by elixir

But do proper titles like Beyond Good & Evil get the attention they deserve? Nooooo, it doesn't have Mario on it or the Nintendo logo.

Originally Posted by rlixrir

Oh, and Beyond Good and Evil didn't bomb, it was a sleeper hit which you obviously haven't played if you're passing comments like that.

Why didn't Beyond Good & Evil not bomb if it did infact not un-bomb? Gimme back my steak.
EDIT:

Originally Posted by elixir

Hardly reality. Except Gran Turismo 4 is attempting to imitate reality with the graphics and "real driving simulator" rubbish. I own 3, I've spent a decent amount of hours in 3, but I wouldn't consider it to be that real. Back when it was released, sure, but that was 2002 or something.

Driving physics don't magically change over time. They've been the same since the wheel was invented. Oh wait, once again you're putting the graphics and presentation first.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Elixir

Actually, you sound like an eb worker, or someone who's previously worked in a gaming store. Which is a bad thing, considering I'm basically typing words here and you're looking at them, and not actually reading them. Much like my experiences with gaming stores have been; "Do you have ____ game in now?" and the responses; "No." "It should be coming out in the year 20XX." "What platform is this GTA game you speak of for?" "I think it's going to retail at $129.95"

Nope, I have never worked in a ebgames, gamestop, gamecrazy or other game store. I laugh at the workers there who do say stuff like that cause they truely are idiots.

Originally Posted by elixir

If some kid wants to play Resident Evil, the chances are he's going to play it. How? Well, whether it's a matter of switching discs with your copy of Crash Bandicoot or not, it doesn't matter. It also isn't the parents' responsibility for fucking video games and their ratings. If ratings were paid attention to as much as the ESRB corporation wished, developers would stop adding violence to their games and some game series would stop entirely, due to lack of profit.

You must have worked out too much on that treadmill it has drained the blood from your brain. Of course its not the parents resposibility for the ratings. But IT IS their resposibility to be a part of the child's life which includes making sure they are participating in something that is appropriate for their mental and/or physical maturity level. Developers have every right to make any game they want to. The ESRB ratings were developed as and still are today used as guides to the (ignorant) parents. There are no rules other than what stores enforce from within their own corporate levels for a minor to buy a M game. Why do you think Acclaim made BMX XXX? Because they could. And what happened? It bombed becuase it wasn't something that consumers wanted. The more developers are going to keep relying on violence to sell their games the less they will sell.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Oh, and Beyond Good and Evil didn't bomb, it was a sleeper hit which you obviously haven't played if you're passing comments like that. Sure, blame a company for releasing multiple titles at once, I guess you can kiss companies like Konami good bye, then.

Actually according to NPD the game did bomb. It was a great game. One that I have COMPLETED 3X. I never once said anything about the quality of the game until just now.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Because the government has close to no idea how to moderate games. There's been a bunch of recent complaints over Manhunt, and Rockstar in general, but where was the media when Mortal Kombat was released back in the early 90's? Exactly.

Actually the media was quite well aware of what was going on. It was on the news, it made the newspapers. In fact it was the one of the first games that triggered the start of the ESRB.

Oh look at the time...time to go to school little one.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Berto2K

The ESRB ratings were developed as and still are today used as guides to the (ignorant) parents. There are no rules other than what stores enforce from within their own corporate levels for a minor to buy a M game. Why do you think Acclaim made BMX XXX? Because they could. And what happened? It bombed becuase it wasn't something that consumers wanted. The more developers are going to keep relying on violence to sell their games the less they will sell.

So because a parent doesn't know that Resident Evil = horror violent title, automatically makes them ignorant? Wow okay guy, back the fuck up here. BMX XXX was banned in australia, along with I think brazil and a couple of other places. It didn't really get a chance but it was like someone had taken the Tony Hawk's Pro Rehash engine and turned it into a half naked bike game which had terrible controls and mediocre softcore porn.

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Actually the media was quite well aware of what was going on. It was on the news, it made the newspapers. In fact it was the one of the first games that triggered the start of the ESRB.

The media wasn't publically announcing that certain titles be forbidden from specific countries when it came to titles such as those. However with recent Mortal Kombat titles, it's different. Why, I really have no idea, but it's becoming more realistic and I'm sure there's only so far you can go with violence before it crosses the line. Also see, Thrill Kill.

But ESRB ratings will not stop a kid from playing a game, unless they're weak. Chances are, if they're under 18 and they're buying the game themselves with their own money, parents would let them buy whatever the hell they want. That's society. And I'm sure the amount of parents who actually care what their kids are playing over the amount of parents who don't is a huge difference.

And that's why ESRB ratings are stupid. Kids get what they want 90% of the time, and this situation is no different. There's more adults who give in to their kids and their demands, over the adults who don't. There's more demanding kids these days and that isn't going to change. If a game gets banned from specific countries for crossing the line, they've gone too far, and that's their (the game developers) fault. And it has absolutely nothing to do with ESRB ratings or the ratings influenec on whether the game is void from a country or not. They're just irrelevant.

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Oh look at the time...time to go to school little one.

Enjoy your day at pre-school. I hear they have Gamecubes there for entertainment now.

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And that's why ESRB ratings are stupid. Kids get what they want 90% of the time, and this situation is no different. There's more adults who give in to their kids and their demands, over the adults who don't. There's more demanding kids these days and that isn't going to change.

Well... you can't really blame the ESRB for bad parenting and kids who don't know what's good for 'em. At least they're helping fight the good fight.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Elixir

So because a parent doesn't know that Resident Evil = horror violent title, automatically makes them ignorant? Wow okay guy, back the fuck up here.

No it makes them ignorant for not reading the back of the box, or looking at the ratings box that says "Extreme Violence", and 17+.

Originally Posted by Elixir

BMX XXX was banned in australia, along with I think brazil and a couple of other places. It didn't really get a chance but it was like someone had taken the Tony Hawk's Pro Rehash engine and turned it into a half naked bike game which had terrible controls and mediocre softcore porn.

Its not my fault those governments aren't confident enough in their own constituents to make smart desicions for themselves and have need to feel like babysitters.

Originally Posted by elixir

The media wasn't publically announcing that certain titles be forbidden from specific countries when it came to titles such as those. However with recent Mortal Kombat titles, it's different. Why, I really have no idea, but it's becoming more realistic and I'm sure there's only so far you can go with violence before it crosses the line. Also see, Thrill Kill.

It couldn't be that the world is adopting a "its someone elses fault my child did that" mentality could it? Also the gaming industry is mutliple times larger than it was back then. So naturally it is going to get more attention now that it did back then.

Originally Posted by elixir

But ESRB ratings will not stop a kid from playing a game, unless they're weak. Chances are, if they're under 18 and they're buying the game themselves with their own money, parents would let them buy whatever the hell they want. That's society. And I'm sure the amount of parents who actually care what their kids are playing over the amount of parents who don't is a huge difference.

Thats not the point. As I said, the ratings were made as a GUIDE TO PARENTS to the games. If the parents aren't paying attention to what their minor child is doing that is their own failt...no one elses.

Originally Posted by elixir

And that's why ESRB ratings are stupid. Kids get what they want 90% of the time, and this situation is no different. There's more adults who give in to their kids and their demands, over the adults who don't. There's more demanding kids these days and that isn't going to change.

I see..so its not the parent's fault for being weak minded and falling for thier kid's whines and complains for a game that was never supposed to be in their hands in the first place? Get real.

Originally Posted by elixir

If a game gets banned from specific countries for crossing the line, they've gone too far, and that's their (the game developers) fault. And it has absolutely nothing to do with ESRB ratings or the ratings influenec on whether the game is void from a country or not. They're just irrelevant.

No, its the government's fault for not letting people make up their own minds. the developers have every right to make any game they want. Why do you think that less than 1% of games made receive the AO rating? Because they never sell and lose the companies money. A developer cannot make a diferent game to cater to each country's own tiny little rules for what a game has to be. Your shitty (not my words, but from a born New Zealander) government made the choice, set the standards, and the ruling.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Enjoy your day at pre-school. I hear they have Gamecubes there for entertainment now.

I wouldn't know with my university diploma. Funny though...aren't you the one who dropped out of school?? Or was it failed out.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

This whole thing went from bad to good to worse.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Berto2K

No it makes them ignorant for not reading the back of the box, or looking at the ratings box that says "Extreme Violence", and 17+.

Yes, because instantly it's the parents responsibility to literally scan over what their sons and daughters buy, like some sort of over protective freaks. Why don't you just rid a child of all it's freedom, eh? Nothing's stopping the parent from checking the box for ESRB ratings, but the fact that they don't even know that they exist doesn't make them ignorant.

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Its not my fault those governments aren't confident enough in their own constituents to make smart desicions for themselves and have need to feel like babysitters.

And it's not my fault 90% of failure titles come from america. But that's something to reflect on.

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It couldn't be that the world is adopting a "its someone elses fault my child did that" mentality could it? Also the gaming industry is mutliple times larger than it was back then. So naturally it is going to get more attention now that it did back then.

It didn't get enough attention back in the day, and now it's getting an excessive amount of attention which is unneeded. I know with your mentality and all, you probably haven't noticed, but the head spokesman for the banning of Manhunt also claimed you could shove people's dead bodies into trash cans, which apparently isn't true. Along with stuffing cut-off heads inside tyres and attaching them to cars, and driving around in them. All of this was announced on a documentary revolving around games and their level of violence, and all of it was false. However the game was and still is banned.

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Thats not the point. As I said, the ratings were made as a GUIDE TO PARENTS to the games. If the parents aren't paying attention to what their minor child is doing that is their own failt...no one elses.

"If the parent doesn't know that the rating exists, they're ignorant." is what you're saying. Great analogy there, considering the fact that a seemingly large amount of parents probably would bother with checking titles if they knew that there was such extreme violence in some of the titles. But not all titles are violent, yet they're still R18+ and so on. It depends on the game itself, but it still isn't the parents responsibility whatsoever. If an adult takes up knitting, does someone look over their shoulder just in case they poke themselves with the knitting needles? No, it's a hobby, much like gaming is for kids.

I really don't know how you can't see this, I mean, you claim to be smart, but you act otherwise, and I'm very confused. Please don't help me in resolving this issue, and in fact, shut the fuck up in the process. That would be helpful. No offense or anything, but you're not exactly replying with points anymore. It's just "your view" and that's it. I'm getting kind of bored, actually.

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I see..so its not the parent's fault for being weak minded and falling for thier kid's whines and complains for a game that was never supposed to be in their hands in the first place? Get real.

Lol this guy just doesn't get it.

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No, its the government's fault for not letting people make up their own minds. the developers have every right to make any game they want. Why do you think that less than 1% of games made receive the AO rating? Because they never sell and lose the companies money. A developer cannot make a diferent game to cater to each country's own tiny little rules for what a game has to be. Your shitty (not my words, but from a born New Zealander) government made the choice, set the standards, and the ruling.

First of all, stop making assumptions. Who said I was a born New Zealander? It isn't even the government's fault in this case, you're just acting like a fucking moron now. If people want to make up their own minds, as will kids, and as the ESRB ratings are disregarded through this process your little plot has become meaningless.

Furthermore to correct you in your utter stupidity, the government wasn't the ones to prevent Manhunt from coming to New Zealand. It was one person, in charge of what content gets and doesn't get into the country. I haven't said anywhere in this thread that it was related to the government, nor have I stated any real games that have been banned specifically for New Zealand. You seem to make it sound as if this is so, which is just more mindless text I've wasted my time reading through.

All in all, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk at all. The old phrase "It's better to keep your mouth shut when in doubt, as oppose to opening it and proving everyone you really are."

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I wouldn't know with my university diploma. Funny though...aren't you the one who dropped out of school?? Or was it failed out.

I like how you claim to know so much about me, when really you don't know a single thing. All you're doing is stabbing in the dark with random insults and dumb logic which really, for somebody who claims to have a university diploma, isn't a good mix.

That said, how about a thread close? I feel as if I'm wasting my time talking to somebody who claims to be of superiority with his big university diploma, but nothing to show for it. Unless I've missed something, properly addressing an issue without disregarding other matters isn't something this guy's good at.

I'm done here, feel free to make this thread the first one that hits the Wall of Shame once it's back up. After all, this thread was going good, but yeah. I don't really care for replies anymore as it's become so predictable that it's either Team Australia or the occasional random (the latter happens to be taking place currently) when it comes down to these sorts of threads. It just can't be helped.

Very lastly, I'd like to mention once again, that if Gamecube/Nintendo merchandise/games were not for kids, this thread wouldn't exist, and this wouldn't be questioned in gamingforce, gamefaqs, and other forums which I've seen this similar thread arise in. If there's enough people out there to accumulate a question of whether or not "Nintendo games are kiddy" then there's enough people to already know the answer.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

"After all, this thread was going good, but yeah."

I like how you say that as though it were Berto's fault, and not a completely mutual effort from both of you to fuck it up.
I was actually just asked to recommend a Gamecube game for children recently (check out the Gamecube forum on PGC) and had a difficult time thinking of any that really weren't too advanced. Kirby Air Ride was the only satisfactory answer.
I attribute that more to games being too complex today, though.

Instead of closing this thread, how about Elixir and Berto just stop swinging trashbags at each other? Then maybe we could have a conversation with some substance.

Let me start out by arguing thus:
GTA is much more simplistic game, on a maturity level, than Pikmin or even Super Mario Sunshine. It consists of running around and randomly shooting people (and some shitty missions, but those are relatively simple as well). It's really juvenile.

On the other hand, the content of GTA is obviously more graphic than Pikmin or Super Mario Sunshine.
So, what defines a mature game? Graphic content, or a mature game design?

Movies are rated R if they have more graphic content, but the complexity of the story and the issues involved tend to be on a more adult level as well (not always, but such is often the case). Whereas with games, we don't have this distinction. I think that makes things more difficult.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Elixir

Yes, because instantly it's the parents responsibility to literally scan over what their sons and daughters buy, like some sort of over protective freaks. Why don't you just rid a child of all it's freedom, eh? Nothing's stopping the parent from checking the box for ESRB ratings, but the fact that they don't even know that they exist doesn't make them ignorant.

Actually ya it is their responsibility as a child has no freedom whem its still living under a parents roof. Just like if a child were allergic to a certain ingredient in food its the parents resposibility to check the label and make sure its approriate for their child.And its the fact that the parents don't know whatthe ESRB rating on the box is the issue.

Originally Posted by elixir

And it's not my fault 90% of failure titles come from america. But that's something to reflect on.

Not mine either. Never said it was anyone's fault. Where you getting this from O_o. I think it may be JPN though as they develop way more games.

Originally Posted by elixir

I know with your mentality and all, you probably haven't noticed, but the head spokesman for the banning of Manhunt also claimed you could shove people's dead bodies into trash cans, which apparently isn't true. Along with stuffing cut-off heads inside tyres and attaching them to cars, and driving around in them. All of this was announced on a documentary revolving around games and their level of violence, and all of it was false. However the game was and still is banned.

And all that other stuff just furthers the proof that the mass media still doesn't know what its talking about at all.


"If the parent doesn't know that the rating exists, they're ignorant." is what you're saying. Great analogy there, considering the fact that a seemingly large amount of parents probably would bother with checking titles if they knew that there was such extreme violence in some of the titles. But not all titles are violent, yet they're still R18+ and so on. It depends on the game itself, but it still isn't the parents responsibility whatsoever. If an adult takes up knitting, does someone look over their shoulder just in case they poke themselves with the knitting needles? No, it's a hobby, much like gaming is for kids.[/quote]
Yes it does, cause all they have to do is look at the box to see them there. I love how you used two very different words to try and make analogy too. "if an adult" when we are talking about kids.

Originally Posted by elixir

I really don't know how you can't see this, I mean, you claim to be smart, but you act otherwise, and I'm very confused. Please don't help me in resolving this issue, and in fact, shut the fuck up in the process. That would be helpful. No offense or anything, but you're not exactly replying with points anymore. It's just "your view" and that's it. I'm getting kind of bored, actually.

Then why do you keep posting?? Nobod is making you.

Originally Posted by elixir

First of all, stop making assumptions. Who said I was a born New Zealander? It isn't even the government's fault in this case, you're just acting like a fucking moron now. If people want to make up their own minds, as will kids, and as the ESRB ratings are disregarded through this process your little plot has become meaningless.

Lets see...

I said you were a born New Zealander...false. But you do live there.
The fact that they ratings are being disregarded or even ignored by those parents who buy the games (because they still do buy the most games each year (18yr+ people)) is the problem. Wha about that don't you get?

Originally Posted by elixir

Furthermore to correct you in your utter stupidity, the government wasn't the ones to prevent Manhunt from coming to New Zealand. It was one person, in charge of what content gets and doesn't get into the country. I haven't said anywhere in this thread that it was related to the government, nor have I stated any real games that have been banned specifically for New Zealand. You seem to make it sound as if this is so, which is just more mindless text I've wasted my time reading through.

Well lets see. It was a member at the New Zealand's Office of Film and Literature Classification who banned the games. And the guess what...that office is part of the government...OMG IT ALL COMES TOGETHER!

Originally Posted by Elixir

All in all, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk at all. The old phrase "It's better to keep your mouth shut when in doubt, as oppose to opening it and proving everyone you really are."

The sad thing I is prob know more about this than most peope on here being a gamer, jounalist on the industry, and a retailer in it.

Originally Posted by elixi

I like how you claim to know so much about me, when really you don't know a single thing. All you're doing is stabbing in the dark with random insults and dumb logic which really, for somebody who claims to have a university diploma, isn't a good mix.

Is it not fact that you dropped out early for a job? Truth hurts don't it.

Originally Posted by elixir

That said, how about a thread close? I feel as if I'm wasting my time talking to somebody who claims to be of superiority with his big university diploma, but nothing to show for it. Unless I've missed something, properly addressing an issue without disregarding other matters isn't something this guy's good at.

I'm done here, feel free to make this thread the first one that hits the Wall of Shame once it's back up. After all, this thread was going good, but yeah. I don't really care for replies anymore as it's become so predictable that it's either Team Australia or the occasional random (the latter happens to be taking place currently) when it comes down to these sorts of threads. It just can't be helped.

Very lastly, I'd like to mention once again, that if Gamecube/Nintendo merchandise/games were not for kids, this thread wouldn't exist, and this wouldn't be questioned in gamingforce, gamefaqs, and other forums which I've seen this similar thread arise in. If there's enough people out there to accumulate a question of whether or not "Nintendo games are kiddy" then there's enough people to already know the answer.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, I tried.

How ya doing, buddy?

*sigh*

Well anyway, the game that first gave me the impression of Nintendo being "kiddy" was Diddy Kong Racing. To me it seemed more like some fruity clone of Mario Kart 64, at least from what I played of it; I never actually owned the game (or an N64 for that matter). However, titles like that have not made me shy away from Nintendo. In fact, of the current game consoles out on the market, the Gamecube is the only one I have. While in some cases it's satisfying for me to splatter somebody or something, things un-"kiddy" of a game are not a requirement in my mind for them to be good. Sure, I can really pummel somebody in Super Smash Brothers Melee for example, but it's not like I'm wishing for blood to get all over the place from said pummeling. And the game still remains one of my favorites on the Gamecube. Mario Kart Double Dash has little or no violence at all, but it still makes a fun game to me, especially when done with several people.

So yes, I do believe Nintendo to be "kiddy" to some extent or another, but not entirely. Not to the point that I don't think they have anything good to offer.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Elixer.....

going back to the last page when you said kids don't want a challenge in their games because they'd get too frustrated.

I dont know what the hell stupid kids you know, but all the kids I've seen at the arcades and playing console games are fucking awesome at games, adult-oriented or not.

There are kids that can beat the best of the older players at House of the Dead 4 (get to the final boss with one credit o__o), I'VE been beaten in Virtual On by 7 year olds, and a lot of them play GTA better than some people I know (I crash the car a lot and die, as well).
Counterstrike and WoW are some of the others I see them kick ass in (and swear the shit out of each other too).

My cousin learnt how to play Ouendan faster than I did, and he's only 10.
He also plays Madden, which I have absoluely no idea about.

Kids DEFINTELY CAN play harder games.
They may not have the dexterity or patience like some of us older gamers, but they CAN play them, and over time (also like us), only get better.

FELIPE NO

Well looks like the alarm didn't go off, however I have a few things to say before I close this thread. It's too bad too since it was getting better for a bit and then Elixir had to come in... anyway...

Nintendo games are mostly child friendly but at the same time are fun for everyone. "Kiddy" would be used to describe something that only children can enjoy. This isn't the case for Nintendo games.

The ESRB rating system is a system to inform consumers what to expect in videogames they purchase much like the MPAA and TV rating systems are systems to inform consumers what to expect in shows they purchase tickets for/buy for home viewing/watch on tv. It is completely up to the consumer what they do with these rating systems whether they ignore them, use them to enforce rules on their children, etc.

That is all you need to know.

Now for the fun part. Since I had to read your drivel, Elixir, to see if there was anything that wasn't rambling which there wasn't I'm having you banned from the forums. You said you were going to turn a new leaf but you're back to your old hat crap and you still don't know anything about what you're talking about. The idea that I presented was to make this thread amusing and you totally went against that idea with all your retarded passion for unfunny and failure. See ya in a week, guy. =/

Edit: Make that a month. We forgot that you got banned forum-wide for week before the crash. Enjoy E3 with the good folks over at GameFAQs. =)



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