friends dictating terms on friendship

So I have this bipolar friend, who totally spazzes out at the most ridiculous things, gets indignant when someone else around him lacks even the slightest bit of tact and manners, and acts like his opinions alone are the manadate for the entire universe.

Recently, he insulted (possibly very severely; I only got his version of events, which, more than once, has been exponentially tamer than the real version of events) his best friend's fiancee, and his best friend, who is usually very caring, sensitive, and meek, lashes out physically, and uninvites him to the wedding.

Now, I tried talking with him last night, when this happened, and said that he probably shouldn't have said what he said, and I tried to give him a different perspective on the issue that he felt it necessary to insult her (the fiancee) over. He of course gets mad and hangs up.

Today, he calls me and tells me that I told him "this is where you went wrong, that is what you did wrong, this is where you failed," when that is most certainly not what I said. He then feels it necessary to dictate terms upon all friendships, saying that "friends do not tell other friends what they did wrong."
I heartily disagree, but seeing how he is very sensitive to stuff like that, I replied "Well, I do not like how you tell me what I should and should not do as a friend." i didn't even finish that sentence and he hangs up.

He has no sense of manners, tact, or even empathy, and clearly values himself above all other things and people, while at the same time hating himself for it.

What the hell do I do with people like this?

REAL insights would be helpful. Not bogus stuff like "you should bitch-slap that mofo." Thanks.


EDIT/UPDATE: So he called me again and told me that he said "when a friend is struggling and having a hard time emotionally, you do not tell them what they did wrong." Now, I'll grant you that statement is true, but that is most indefinitely not what he said. He then yells back at me, says that I must have misinterpreted what he said, like I do with everything else he says, and I am a worhtless fuck.

Again... how do I deal with this sort of person?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

If this person really is bi-polar, then you've got to figure out whether or not you can/shoul deal with them at all. Sometimes it's best to cut your loses and lose contact with the person, but you'll figure out what's best in your case.

I strongly believe that you should tell a friend when they do something wrong. And in most cases it should be done in a constructive way, if they are receptive to such things (Some people won't take you seriously unless you are 'mean' about it). What else is a friend for, if not to tell you things as they are? What's the old saying? A friend is someone who will tell you your breath smells?

There is a world of difference between telling someone where they have done/said something wrong, and insulting someone. If your friend feels the need to judge people, and tell them off for the sake of it, then that's wrong. A lack of tact is something that anyone can change. Unfortunately a lot of people who act poorly like that expect others to 'just deal with it' instead of attempting to improve on their personal skills. His 'hating himself' due to his treating others poorly is a thinly veiled attempt to garner sympathy and have others overlook his attitude problems.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The helping-ness is great and all, but what about if he/she (I don't know your profile because I don't go around and check GFF member's profile) gets in to more sticky situation then she/he would got if he/she followed she/he's idea? (Holy shit that made no sense.)

How ya doing, buddy?

Sounds like you need to talk to your friend. And not on the phone. In person. Because he'll probably end up hanging up the phone. And if that's not what you'll do, take a break from talking to him.

By the way, I think a friend will tell the other person when there is something wrong.
I hope that your little situation works out well.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Fjordor

So I have this bipolar friend, who totally spazzes out at the most ridiculous things, gets indignant when someone else around him lacks even the slightest bit of tact and manners, and acts like his opinions alone are the manadate for the entire universe.

Recently, he insulted (possibly very severely; I only got his version of events, which, more than once, has been exponentially tamer than the real version of events) his best friend's fiancee, and his best friend, who is usually very caring, sensitive, and meek, lashes out physically, and uninvites him to the wedding.

Now, I tried talking with him last night, when this happened, and said that he probably shouldn't have said what he said, and I tried to give him a different perspective on the issue that he felt it necessary to insult her (the fiancee) over. He of course gets mad and hangs up.

Today, he calls me and tells me that I told him "this is where you went wrong, that is what you did wrong, this is where you failed," when that is most certainly not what I said. He then feels it necessary to dictate terms upon all friendships, saying that "friends do not tell other friends what they did wrong."
I heartily disagree, but seeing how he is very sensitive to stuff like that, I replied "Well, I do not like how you tell me what I should and should not do as a friend." i didn't even finish that sentence and he hangs up.

He has no sense of manners, tact, or even empathy, and clearly values himself above all other things and people, while at the same time hating himself for it.

What the hell do I do with people like this?

REAL insights would be helpful. Not bogus stuff like "you should bitch-slap that mofo." Thanks.


EDIT/UPDATE: So he called me again and told me that he said "when a friend is struggling and having a hard time emotionally, you do not tell them what they did wrong." Now, I'll grant you that statement is true, but that is most indefinitely not what he said. He then yells back at me, says that I must have misinterpreted what he said, like I do with everything else he says, and I am a worhtless fuck.

Again... how do I deal with this sort of person?

You may not like to hear what I have to say about the matter, but maybe you'll see some sense in it. I hope.

Either lighten up and have some fun with the lunatic, or ditch him compeltely as a friend.

Apparently, he's bipolar. He's prone to have rollercoaster emotions. I would imagine that all involved are AWARE of this? Or hell, maybe that doesn't even matter much! MAYBE he was just PISSED about something and had a really really bad day.

If he's been a friend to you guys, maybe you should reconsider being a crowd of tightasses. The drama sounds like its a little heavy, and you guys could do with some lightning up.

If you can't lighten up about the mean things he said, then ditch him as a friend.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's not fair to yourself or to him.

I was speaking idiomatically.

This is going to sound over-simplified, but I don't really see the point in dressing it up.

Bipolar or not, if this guy is ever going to function in society, he's going to have to get himself in check, and you're not doing him any favors by walking on eggshells with him. Not that you have, but you sound like you're considering doing that in order to appease him.

Unless he is seriously mentally ill with no hope of ever leading a normal life, at some point he's going to have to learn some social skills. To placate him is to be a dishonest, insincere friend. He needs a strong dose of shut the hell up.

P.S. Allowing someone to abuse you is never an option. You don't allow someone to call you a "worthless fuck" -- ever. Have some self-respect, Fjordor.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

P.S. Allowing someone to abuse you is never an option. You don't allow someone to call you a "worthless fuck" -- ever. Have some self-respect, Fjordor.

Do you really think that being called a "worthless fuck" is abuse, Alice?

I mean, everyone I know has said it to someone at least once in their lives.

I would never make an issue out of being called a worthless fuck, since it's sheerly a matter of opinion. I would laugh and nod my head, remembering the statement and never do any favors for that person again, since I am so worthless in their eyes! Surely, I could do nothing right!

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been called this in my lifetime. It's kind of funny. ^_^

FELIPE NO

Yes, I do. And it's happened to me, too, but that doesn't make it any less "abuse".

The real abuse is internal, though, and happens when someone says something like that to you and you don't do anything about it. Incidentally, you solve that problem the same way I do - by cutting that person off.

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Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Yes, I do. And it's happened to me, too, but that doesn't make it any less "abuse".

The real abuse is internal, though, and happens when someone says something like that to you and you don't do anything about it. Incidentally, you solve that problem the same way I do - by cutting that person off.

Or understand that people say a lot of stupid things when they're pissed.

Thats what I generally do. They usually apologize afterwards anyways, so.

Can I ask you something? And don't get ripshit with me, dear god, please. I am just curious.

Isn't it part of your faith to forgive? I guess it must be leftover from my Catholic days, but you know, I try and forgive anger and things done in anger. I understand how it can feel.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, there's a difference between forgiving someone and letting someone continue to run all over you. You can forgive someone in your heart and understand that people are human and are going to make mistakes sometimes, but once someone has proven themselves to be abusive you're under no obligation to continue to put yourself in harm's way.

In other words, forgiving someone (to me, at least) has more to do with putting aside any hateful feelings about that person than continuing a relationship with them.

Also, I'm big on giving people second chances, but if they've proven time and again that they can't treat me with respect, I simply remove them from my life. It doesn't have to be an ugly scene, and there doesn't need to be any hatred involved. Just...bye-bye.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Well, there's a difference between forgiving someone and letting someone continue to run all over you. You can forgive someone in your heart and understand that people are human and are going to make mistakes sometimes, but once someone has proven themselves to be abusive you're under no obligation to continue to put yourself in harm's way.

In other words, forgiving someone (to me, at least) has more to do with putting aside any hateful feelings about that person than continuing a relationship with them.

Also, I'm big on giving people second chances, but if they've proven time and again that they can't treat me with respect, I simply remove them from my life. It doesn't have to be an ugly scene, and there doesn't need to be any hatred involved. Just...bye-bye.

Again, sheerly out of curiosity (I AM NOT trying to start a fight - please understand): what would you do said person is a parent, sibling, or son/daughter?

Only because I've been in this position about a million times and I know I could NEVER cut off a family member, you know? How would you deal with this?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

God, that would be a hard call. My dad was somewhat abusive to me when I was a teenager, so I've sort of been in that position, but thankfully as I got older he started treating me with more and more respect. Now, I can't even imagine him saying some of the things he used to say to me.

I really don't know what to tell you. I know plenty of people who have had to make the tough decision to distance themselves from their families, though, for that very reason. I guess it's a personal choice. If you feel that it's more important to have those people in your life than to be treated with respect, then I supposed you'll have to just grit your teeth and try not to punch said family members in their huge, gaping maws.

It would be a hard call for me, as well, but I'd probably go with the cutting off option if all else failed. I've personally reached a point in my life where I'm not going to take any more abuse from anyone. I haven't always been like this, trust me. I just reached that point one day, you know? As for non-family treating me like that and getting by with it? The very idea makes me laugh.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Hey, thanks for all the thoughts guys.

One of the main reason why I don't want to cut myself off from him is because I am often his last option in friendship, and I don't know what would happen to him should every cast him off. He had already attempted suicide before, and failed with it, but I don't want to think that he might be driven to try it again, and succeed.

I realize that he goes through a lot of mood swings, and most of the stuff he says, like "worthless fuck" are absurd statements rooted in fits of anger. All of his friends, including myself, usually just forget all of his angry fits, after apologies go around. We all understand his emotional status, and I guess we have gotten used to that.

But like Alice said, it is not right for us to be walking on eggshells around him. This is totally unfair to him and us. This is the main reason why I ask for some help. Because I want to help him cope with how normal society works, and our normal courses of action seem to be ineffective.

We do lighten up Sass, btw, but if we laughed at him angry shenannegans, or didn't let him think that we took him seriously, it would probably make his already ill mood worse. Although... it is really tempting, now that you mention it, to find out what would happen if we all laughed at his pathetic threats and insults.

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