2008-09 NHL season discussion thread
 

Free agency begins in less than a week, and for every team except for the Toronto Maple Leafs it means renewed optimism and hope for the coming season. Parity is in full swing and no one would be surprised in the slightest if the Chicago Blackhawks made the Western Conference finals (which is my dangerously early prediction of the year). Of course, early on like this it's always the clever thing to do when you say "Penguins vs. Red Wings" in the Final, but only half of the matchup sounds fair at this point as the Penguins will be losing Marian Hossa (likely), Gary Roberts (definitely) and Ryan Malone (definitely). To be honest, that doesn't leave the Penguins in too bad a shape, but if there's a lesson to be learned from this past season it's that depth isn't a bad thing to have a little of.

The Penguins did luck out with Ty :gonk: (wait, no, not anymore) Conklin (who also may be hitting the dusty trail) and got what they were hoping for from Malkin (read: Hart-worthy effort), but no one was excited to see the Penguins heading into the middle of January without Fleury, Crosby and Mark Eaton (snake-bitten). We'll have to see what happens during free agency, but some people are clamoring for a return trip for Jaromir Jagr (maybe) and Markus Naslund way underpriced (kthx). I'd like a top-flight D man, but the only one on the market is Brian Campbell and there isn't really a buzz about him heading to Steel City. Wade Redden would do OK, but I don't think he'll be received well considering the Sens rivalry that's been brewing.

Smartest decision made so far: Vancouver picking up Wellwood off waivers. That kid has a HUGE upside. I've been saying it for years. If he stays healthy, he's a solid player. Works hard, plays his ass off every night. Even on the lowly fucking Maple Laughs.

McGratton hitting the old dusty trail from Ottawa means someone can pick up a decent tough guy and great locker room guy for the cheap cheap. Pity about his hockey skills.

Speaking of McGrattan, I was a bit surprised to see Phoenix scoop him up when they've already got a guy who can throw 'em as well as Carcillo can. I mean, sure, he's not the biggest guy around, but he sure stands in there like he is. I wonder if Gretzky's predicting him to have another problem year regarding lack of discipline and suspensions.

Also frees them up to trade tough guy for talent.

As far as I am concerned Ryan Malone can leave. Some team like Columbus is going to over pay for a player that's a product of his environment.


However, if Pens don't sign Hossa back I think I'm going to cry. :(

I don't have a problem with it as long as we get some depth to replace him at a similar value (Jagr and Naslund is being kicked around at 9 or 10 mil total).

Well I guess I have nothing to look forward to since I'm probably the only one that would painfully admit to being a Toronto Maple Leafs fan. I guess there is not much to expect from them this coming season, but oh well stranger things have happened.

I think Pittsburg will make another strong run for the cup as well as Detroit. I get the feeling Nashville is going to do very well this year. I even think Boston will probably put on a better showing in this season.

I'm glad to see Mr. Mullet himself Barry Melrose make his way back to coaching. I was a really big fan of the L.A. Kings during my early teen years. It would be interesting to see what he'll do with the Lightning after being away from NHL coaching after 13 years.

It could be alot worse. I am a Vancouver fan :( We want the Stanley Cup at least once...

You think being a Vancouver fan is worse than being a Leaf fan?

Do you watch hockey? Do you realise the firesale going on in Toronto right now? ARE YOU AWARE OF THE EXISTENCE OF AN NHL?

Lightning trying to get head start on free agent sweepstakes

Tampa Bay traded 4th round pick to the Pens for the rights of Malone and Roberts. If Malone signs they get a 3rd rounder instead.

Seems to me like TB is pretty dumb considering Malone wants to test out free agency no matter what.

Pittsburgh is too, if they give up Roberts. He and Laraque are the heart of that team.

Roberts already made it public he wasn't going to sign with Pittsburgh no matter what the offer was. So between receiving a draft pick or receiving absolutely nothing, I'd much rather have a draft pick.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AojV.hxux_ZZncjvqt2yulh7vLYF?slug=ap-wild-rolstontrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

Eh. I said it after the Pens trade; It'll all be worth it if they sign him. I don't like the idea of giving up draft picks, but the new ownership is pretty much running the show. The former GM, Jay Feaster, was ousted from his position when Oren Koules came in, now have a diminished role in the front office. So pretty much, it's all what they want to do, with little second opinion to be heard of.

I'm getting excited to a point here. I don't think we'll be anything more than a lower-playoff seed at this time, but that could easily change seeing how aggressive we've been to get some impact players here. We really need a solid goalie between the pipes. We traded for Mike Smith from Dallas, and it seems as if we're probably going to go with him as Koules had his hand in it. I doubt we'll see the Bolts go after any goaltenders, sadly. :(

Smith appeared to have some good abilities in Dallas, so I don't think you'll have too much trouble as long as you get your defense sorted out.

As far as Roberts goes, his purpose was basically to take the kids into the playoffs and show them how it's done. He did that, he's served his purpose, and I'm sure all the young players on the Penguins learned a lot from him in the process. Sure, he's a guy that would be good to have back, but losing him is far from crippling.

Well, a busy day in the NHL and things aren't yet over. Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli is expected to be holding a press conference sometime in the next few minutes, likely to announce a signing.

The biggest moves of the day were made by - who else - the Chicago Blackhawks, who've signed Brian Campbell and Cristobal Huet. Just another piece of evidence that this will probably be a big year for the Hawks.

The Rangers signed Wade Redden and Michal Roszival. Meh.

The Penguins re-signed Pascal Dupuis and Mark Eaton, and signed Erik Godard.

Brian Rolston is a Devil.

Micheal Ryder is a Bruin.

Huh. Ryder? I'll take him. But the team's been very quiet so far. Don't know if I like that.

Apparently the B's might be looking for a few trades.

The Penguins are reportedly close to signing Jaromir Jagr. :o

Hossa might be an Oiler.

Well, I like the fact they're still supporting Timmy The Tulip Thomas. But I'll miss Auld there for support.

Man, there zon't be anymore "HIP HIP HUET" cheers in DC anymore. I always got cised for those.


On top of not going back to the Pens, he's going to the Red Wings. :tpg:

Campbell to Chicago as well.

What a jip. He took a one-year deal worth only $400,000 more than what the Pens were offering.

I hope he blows out his leg in the first game.

As well as a promise of a multi-year contract next year.

A.) As opposed to the one the Penguins were offering him NOW, and B.) as if any ownership group is really obligated to follow up on promises.

Free Agent A didn't sign with the team I started liking the other year with everyone else when Crosby got drafted! I hope he suffers a potentially career-ending injury! Also I have perspective and am most certainly not a baby!

I HOPE HE DIES

I'm glad people take everything I say seriously.

I wasn't too keen on that Conklin signing, as I thought the Wings had a competent backup goalie in Jimmy Howard. But with the signing of Hossa, I have realized Detroit is trying to undermine their nearest competition in the league to make this next year as easy as possible.

I hope he turns into PURE AWESOME in the first game and dominates the league.

Pittsburgh is fucking dead to me. I hope they wind up dead last.

Long live the Habs.

Aren't you a Bruins fan?

The Bruins will always be my #1. Always.

But I always need to pick a team I'll pull for in the second round of the playoffs when the Bears die in the first.

And man, am I ever tired of seeing Pittsburgh lose the guys who brought together the locker room. So I'm cheering for my second favourite team. Team Laraque.

So your next choice is your favorite team's arch-rival? That makes more sense to you than stumping a team that loses a couple guys here and there but will likely make their own chemistry from being together and succeeding year after year?

Man, don't forget I lived in Montreal. When they aren't playing the Bruins, I have nothing but love for that team. I've never been able to route against Original Six in any form. That's the heart of the game. You can't hate on the origins.

And it absolutely does. Bruins are my sentimental favourite. I go for them based on gut instinct and loyalty. My number two is generally filled with players I really like. And that's a very distinct kind of player. Your Milan Lucic, or George Laraque... Gritty players. Pittsburgh has tons of talent now, and I'll watch them because the hockey's great, but they just don't feel right to me anymore. So I'm pulling for Georges in Hab-town. Allez les rouge et bleu.

I officialy have no reason to watch Hockey now. There goes my 'vintage' Rolston jersey. What a fucking waste of $150.

Seriously. It seems like the ENTIRE Wild roster has changed, save for Koivu, Gaborik, Bouchard, and...I guess Boogaard. At least we got Brunette back.

Here's waiting on Demitra.

I don't want to be one of those guys who jumps the gun or anything, but as soon as we hired Gillis as a GM I said it could never end well, and so far my team's just completely falling apart.

Gillis as an agent has a horrible reputation with the other GMs, as in the actively dislike him. I can't see him ever being able to broker a mutually beneficial deal in good faith, because everyone is going to be out to stick it to him for costing them more money as an agent.

Nonis had a three-year plan he was working towards, and I really wish Vancouver's ownership would've let him use the last year now that we'd have some cap space. Instead, they got impatient, fired him, and now look at where we are. Offering a player who's never been the best player in the league - even when he was young, let alone now - the highest salary in the league. Jesus christ.

Additional Spam:
And at last, Jagr signs with... nobody!

Hasn't been a post in a while so I'll take the initiative.

I'm so fucking sick of this Sundin shit. This is exactly like the crap Niedemeyer pulled last year...Do I retire? Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No!!!!!!! I DONT KNOW :psyduck:

What a bunch of bullshit.

Two huge hits in one week:

Oh hell yeah! Went to go see Flames vs. LA! We should've lost the game, but came up 6 in a row!

GO FLAMES GO!

So maybe there are SOME perks of my job ;) (AKA, GO FLAMES GO!) | Facebook

It's a pretty good time to be a Penguins fan right now. 4th in the conference, but the team is very balanced. Big wins against the Wings and Flyers in the last two games.

Story of the East is Boston though. Well, actually the story is Tim Thomas. He's carrying the B's right now. The games on Dec. 30 and Jan. 1 between the Pens and them will be huge.

Thomas and Lucic, man. Fuck it's a great time to love the Killer Bs.

Lucic. I know Bergeron's supposed to be the cornerstone of the Bruins but I'd take Lucic any day of the week.

I've been watching Lucic since juniors. Still don't know how the nucks passed on him.

He was the 50th pick (or something) in the draft; everyone missed their chance.

Yeah, but not everyone got to watch him play on a nightly basis like Vancouver did. God what a stupid decision.

Speaking of Lucic, he was an assist away from another Gordie Howe hat-trick, but he beat the crap out of Komisarek and he was fired up afterwards. He's like a better PJ Stock. Bruins tarred and feathered the Habs in Boston, 6-1. I'd love to go to a game now. :D

As if the All-Star Game wasn't a farce already, Canadiens fans have decided stuffing the ballot is their primary objective this year, and they have done extremely well. For a time, there was no bot protection on the ballot page, so some Habs fans worked up a script to automate votes for Habs players and Wings players, and with the exception of the West's starting d-men and goalie, all starting spots are held by Habs and Wings.

Frankly, this aggravates me, but I'm one of an apparently dwindling number of people who enjoy watching the All-Star Game year after year. It doesn't bother me that there aren't any Penguins starting (I'd rather Milan Lucic be on the roster than Sidney Crosby at this point), it bothers me that people don't enjoy or respect it enough anymore to care that this kind of tomfoolery should go unchecked or undefended. I wasn't a big fan of it when Rory Fitzpatrick was the big name two years ago (even though it was a little funnier), but...with the rules being that every team has to be represented, plus the fact that the Habs aren't even the best team in their division, it's just very sad to me that this is what it has come to.

(Plus, Tim Thomas is fourth is goalie voting in the East. If you're reading this, you should be angry.)

My suggestion is this: Habs vs. NHL All-Stars, Habs must play their first-liners for at least 20-30 minutes (d-men: 30-40 minutes). Gives the game a old-timey, host team vs. everyone else All-Star Game feel. There you go, Canadiens fans. You want your cake? Well, you're gonna have to eat it right now, in 30 minutes, and with nothing to drink.

Just don't be surprised if your team gets embarrassed in the process.

The whole reason the vote for Rory campaign started was to raise awareness of how ridiculous it is to allow fans to vote on players in the all star game. And this is why! You can't really blame fans too much for taking advantage of a broken system that is begging to be exploited.

At the same time, though, every other sport (NBA, MLB, NFL, MLS, and I'm sure your AFLs and WNBAs) have fan voting and, for the most part, the fans don't act like a bunch of fucking morons when doing it. And between MLB's ASG actually meaning something and the NFL's meaning the least...yeah, sometimes there are some duds on the roster but with the kind of behavior we're seeing with the NHL ASG this year you'd think you'd start to see people writing in Peyton Manning at running back and Eli Manning at nose tackle for the Pro Bowl.

I don't think having the fans vote is all bad, but if they're going to make a mockery of it then you have to change something about the game itself to make it worth the fans' while to actually vote for players who should be in the game. I'd rather have home-ice advantage go to the winning conference before we have to stop having the fans do any voting.

And, of course, the number of people who vote probably shouldn't exceed the number of people who watch the game.

So if home ice goes to the winning conference, what incentive is there to finish the season first overall? A trophy? Nobody gives a shit about the Presidents' and nobody ever will; the Cup is all that matters.

Fan voting is never good for a sport, be it regarding rule changes, all-star game lineups, or anything else, because fans are stupid and the only way to control that stupid is to regulate its impact. Currently it is being allowed to roam free, and that will lead to nothing but embarrassment.

If the fans make a mockery of it, as you so put it, you don't give their fuck-ups even greater consequences what the fuck. You spank them and send them to their room without dinner.

First off, MLB started the practice of making the game worth something and it's worked wonders (for the most part) on the game itself. Not that there was an issue with fan voting to begin with (unless you listen to the baseball writers).

I honestly don't think the NHL intends for the voting to be shat on by its fans, but at the same time they didn't fix the problems they had two years ago last year and obviously the problems still exist. Like I said, they should still give home-ice to the conference that wins the ASG. Do THAT first, then if the fans continue to piss on the balloting then stop them from being able to vote altogether. From what I've read on hockey boards, fans would take it more seriously if the game meant something.

In the long run, giving anyone home-ice advantage in the playoffs is irrelevant often enough that it wouldn't be that great an incentive anyway. I think the All-Stars (in any sport) should be handled by the players and coaches exclusively and leave it at that. We've seen enough cases in the history of fan voting to warrant its end.

First off, until fairly recently MLB was two legally distinct leagues, and before home field advantage was given to the winner of the ASG it alternated between the National and American league team playing. The two situations are incomparable.

I don't think anyone intends for internet voting to be abused, but it always will be, and that is why if you care at all about the integrity of the voting process you simply don't allow it. The results are always stupid.

As far as home ice advantage goes, well, besides potential lost revenue which owners would certainly have an issue with, do you know how many times the team with home ice has won the cup in the last ten playoffs? That's right. Ten. How about the last twenty playoffs? Sixteen. Good luck convincing anyone that is involved with hockey in any way that home ice is meaningless.

I'd like to know where you got your numbers, and how you derived that each series was won by the team who had home-ice advantage.

You know, just so everyone can see that I am still stupid.

And why are they incomparable? The answer is not because of the DH.

Are you joking? Is this a joke?

MLB had two legally and functionally distinct leagues. They had different rules, and until a little while ago, teams from the two didn't even play during the regular season. Under those circumstances, I would agree that winning one "division" of the sport shouldn't have any bearing on games played between teams from the two. Being in an easier division, for example, shouldn't reward you unduly (note that was also a concern with the increased divisional games in the NHL).

The NHL, however (with the exception of the last couple of misguided seasons, but that's being fixed) has a long history of inter-conference play. Teams' overall league placement has always been a direct result of their success against all teams, not just teams on their own side of the continent, and their success should be rewarded by being ranked higher than said other team.

MLB had a tradition of awarding the home field advantage to the team from each league alternating. I thought you were a baseball fan, but you obviously don't know anything about tradition at all, so I won't put you through what I had originally indended to say. It wasn't determined by anything on the field in the first place, so changing the method of awarding it doesn't in any way undermine players' efforts during the regular season. If you change the way it is awarded in the NHL, you are telling those players who worked hard during the regular season to secure the most points they were able to that their drive to succeed didn't mean anything because now a couple of goofballs in a ridiculous Junior B end-of-practice deke competition determined that they don't get home ice anymore.

As far as the numbers for home ice cup winners go, that information is all freely available on the internet. I will assume (and hope) that much like you possess the ability to use the index or the glossary of a book, you also possess the ability to search for answers on your own. It is a valuable skill. Please develop it.

Well, the first thing I did after I read what you said was look at the last 8 Stanley Cup Finals. Sure enough, in 7 of the last 8 (the exception being the 2000 Cup Final) the winner was seeded 1-4, and in 6 of 8 cases the winner was a higher-ranked team than its opponent. So, again, I don't know where you got your numbers. My numbers differ. Ultimately, it doesn't prove a whole lot. Having home-ice/home-field/home-court advantage in pro sports is a tenuous concept at best, and is becoming decreasingly powerful with many new buildings being so similar to each other and crowds being tough to deal with regardless of whether it's the postseason or the regular season. Crowds just aren't as big a factor in the NHL as in, say, the NFL or the NBA, and if they were every team who had home-ice advantage in any series would win no matter what. Granted, MOST teams with home-ice advantage do win their series, but I take it with a grain of salt. It's all in the head.

Sounds to me like you don't enjoy the All-Star Game at all.

Regardless, your statement seems to contradict itself. What you're suggesting is winning more games in MLB isn't any different now than it was before they decided to have the ASG decide home-field advantage, but then you're suggesting that the opposite would be true for the NHL.

All I'm saying is if you give the game importance (even if it is benign in my mind, it isn't to most), the players will play like it's important and the fans will treat it like it's important. I realize I'm more optimistic than most people, but that's how I feel.

Of course, the irony is that the MLB ASG-World Series relationship was implemented not because of fan voting but of what happened on the field, which may have happened again this year.

New Jersey was just a lower seed in conference play. They finished the season with more points than Dallas, and had home ice in that series. Your numbers are wrong.

Thanks for playing.

And the Devils won more games on the road (3) than they did at home in that series. Same with the Eastern Conference final, and they were playing against a higher-ranked opponent (#1 Flyers).

Thank YOU for playing.

Well darn, my memory was off regarding one playoff series from a decade ago. The home team still wins the majority of the games. It doesn't matter if it's all in the head, because it's in the head of the players. Sports (which you might know, if you had tried any beyond "see how many Krispy Kremes I can fit in my mouth at once") have everything to do with the mentality of the players.

It will never change.

Ooh, fat jokes. That's new. Of course I could tell you I have done my share of athletics before but there's nothing to prove it so why bother.

I am glad however that we both made our sides of the argument known with only one insult thrown between us. Maybe next time we could shoot for zero, that way one of us might be able to make a more compelling argument without stooping to such depths.

Thought I'd chime in the NHL thread here since I'm from Hockeytown...

The Wings are incredible. Such experienced players, they never seem to get high or low no matter what the score is. It seems they have the most confidence in the league, and its well earned.

The Sharks could be a great playoff team this year though. Adding two defensemen was quite a brilliant move and D wins championships. I know theres going to be tons of talk about "Will the Sharks prove everyone wrong about being playoff chokers?" but that talk probably won't matter to them considering the high scoring D and highly effective D. Also they have a top 10 goalie with playoff experience and the Wings just have a backup and also Osgood who is either an up or a down goalie depending on the situation.

Boston seems great in the east but I hear talk about how their "bubble will explode". I guess we'll see. Hopefully the 3rd round will be them against Montreal, and Boston will want revenge for last years series and I hope they make it to the finals since my dads family was from Boston.

I will laugh if the Sharks make the Finals. Who would they bring out for their ceremonial puck drops? Who would they fete as their all-time great players? Pat Falloon? Owan Nolan? Sandis Ozolinsh? Arturs Irbe? Jeff Friesen? Marco Sturm? (See how well that'll go over if they end up facing the Bruins. :tpg:)

One thing I can say that works in the Sharks favor is that almost all the time when a team has to take a long West Coast trip they have to face the Sharks after having played the night before so they are tired and the Sharks get an easy win.

Penguins fans are feeling around in the dark, looking for the floor right now. It can't come soon enough, and I don't think it will come without any trades or firings.

Good time to be a Bruins fan.

Welcome back to the X-Generation :mad:

I really didn't have much trouble finding it.

Though, to be honest, it's not all that hard when it comes right up to you and whacks you in the face.

Shero came out and said he wasn't going to make any trades.

Penguins not going for trades

Which sucks because the Pens have players who do nothing but waste our time (Miroslav Satan).

He makes up for it with the boost in ticket sales he provides among female fans. The man's a bona fide ladykiller.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1928/satan74gk5.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...emot-swoon.gif

Shero's right, moving players for the sake of moving them isn't going to be beneficial in both the short-term and long-term.

For what it's worth, Satan and Staal are second and fourth on the team in points after the Superpowers. At lot of the guys are underperforming for whatever reason and it is more likely due to a lack of motivation (which should be coming from behind the bench). Therrien has never felt comfortable for me and I don't think he'll be around by the time the season comes to an end.

Additional Spam:
Pictures of Miroslav Satan are illegal in one state (New York) and one Canadian province (Alberta), and legislation is currently being discussed in the Pennsylvania congress.

It'll never fly. Not with Jay Costa and Mike Doyle there. The right to see hockey players in all their shirtless glory is a right that shall not be infringed upon, and they'll fight to the death to make sure the same is true for our children. And our children's children.

Imagine your son never being able to see this picture:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...55/talbot2.jpg

A life without Penguins and with shirts is not a life I'd like to lead.

Haha Mad Max is such a pimp.

If the Pens are going to shake up anything on the bench (which they should) I'm thinking it'll be Mike Yeo to go first. Pens have been 0 for the last 32 power play attempts and that just can't continue.

Well, here we are, All-Star break. Definitely two of the biggest surprises in the NHL are in the Eastern Conference and they are the Bruins and the Penguins.

Boston is threatening to break their record for points in a single-season while challenging San Jose for the President's Trophy, and are currently doing it in dominating fashion. They are second in the league in goals for and first in goals against, and Tim Thomas and Manny Fernandez are both in the top four in goals against average and save percentage. The depth in both the scoring lines and the defensive six, plus the Baby B's stepping up, have been so key for this team. Will they hold it together for a good Cup run? I figure they will at least make the Conference finals. (Sorry, Deni...I don't want to get TOO optimistic here.)

As for my team, the Penguins, they are the definition of average this season. Despite having the top two scorers in the league, their goaltending and defense have been (what else?) shoddy. They need Fleury to find the rhythm he had in the latter part of last season or they might not even get into contention.

In fact, everyone needs to get their act together. I'm looking at you, JORDAN STAAL. They didn't re-up you because you're cute.

I mean, that might have been part of it.

Did you see the picture of Satan up above? YEESH.