Not a Muslim? Can't say Allah in Malaysia.
 

Malaysia's internal security ministry has recently ruled that the term Allah may no longer be used by non-Muslims.

And of course, there's an outcry about it already.

Other than the LOL factor this elicited in me, I get a distinct feeling - fair or not - that Muslims really want to impose their will on everyone else. If they're in the minority, they protest about religious discrimination and start rebellions (vs. Catholics in the Philippines, vs. Buddhists in Thailand, vs. Hindus in Kashmir). If they're in the majority (say, Middle East), they start discriminating against other religions.

I find this rather unfair. What are your thoughts?

They're all terrorists, bomb them, etc.

I think that one of the tenets of the Moslem faith is the pursuit of a Moslem state. I'm not sure what you can do about it in countries with an Islamic government. Places where they are the minority it tends not to be a problem except when the peace is interrupted by radicals.

There are people who say that the Koran encourages the killing of "infidels", but Moslems are also supposed to adhere to the ten commandments. Even if they are seeking to form in Islamic government in the places they live, it would be unfair to use violence to achieve those goals.

This is like saying atheists can no longer use the word God or any words referring to the holy trinity. It's hard not to refer to God when it often shows up in our everyday life and in the news on a daily basis. Though, I'm kind of amused when I think of the black population's use of the "N" word. They can go about and use it as they will, but the caucasion population better not use it because that's just racist!

This is really more of an issue of a powerful lobby trying to claim ownership and exclusive entitlement to a word. The surrounding agendas are moot; this is simply selective censorship. Of course, I find it foolish, but I'm not a Muslim, I don't attach any more value to the term "Allah" than I do "God" or "Buddha".

Naturally, but this shouldn't be a stark revelation. Hasn't world history been an unending series of bodies attempting to impose their wills on those perceived as weaker? Isn't this the basis of the two-party system right here in the United States?

Again, not a radical leap forward for society. This describes the behaviors of many minorities. I don't mean to defend zealots but history proves that this behavior is certainly effective. Wheedle and whine until you get what you want, then start building picket fences to keep your most recent benefactors out.


This is overstating the issue, I'm aware. Clearly the Muslims are stepping over boundaries whose relevance is proven through ancient texts; the term "Allah" is multitheic. To put it another way, imagine if the Vatican tried to lay claim to the term "Jesus", stating that no non-Catholic church could keep or distribute texts containing the word "Jesus". Can you imagine the noise that would be produced by the Baptists? Can you deny their right to speak the name of "Jesus"?

I'm curious to know about the political connections and history of the Malaysian security ministers. The leaders of the Muslim faith, the true spiritual advisors, likely wouldn't seek this sort of censorship. It's the fringe organizations within the faith that most often seek to erect such social borders.

This isn't what Islam teaches.

I think that Muslims the world over are begging for people to dislike them.

It's harder and harder for me to try to be the tolerant, fair defender of this 'beautiful faith' while they are acting like the Catholic Church c. 1218.

Personally, I must concede to the fact that I am too drunk to participate in this argument in this exact moment. But I must make this statement.

Their beliefs do not coincide with natural moralities. At least in the situaion that Zergrinch brings up anyhow. Why should non Muslims be restricted from saying Allah. What if someone wants to say 'Allah' in their novel? Do they have to go through the Arabian Embassy to get approval? They should be allowed to just say it. Its a factual name in the culture and therefore there should be no restrictions. That'd be like my church hating on people who don't attend saying 'You can't say Jesus'. I'd be like, "Go fuck yourselfs, I'm not helping out a at a church that doesn't accept others no matter the differences."

I don't think the Muslims have any right restricting the rights of who can say "Allah". It's just stupid to try and restrict that.

(P.S. I pressed the enter key but i missed and hit some other key, and my screen started freaking out. Imagine that.)

*walks into Malaysia*

"Allah."

http://www.ycdtotv.de/img99/86k_317.jpg

*sad horn sound plays*

Way to let the actions of a few distort your perceptions of the many. There's really nothing wrong with the Islamic faith. I don't agree with some of its values but when followed purely, the practitioners are mild, peace-seeking folks. It's a conservative religion to be sure, but once you dig beneath the sensationalism, they share many of the same virtues and goals as Christians, Hindus and Jews.

The Muslims that you see in the news, radicals, terrorists and hatemongers, they don't represent Islam any more than Charles Manson represented Christianity. They're fringe outsiders, estranged from the central faith by their extremist views. They're denounced by the Islamic council and are within the infinitessimal minority of Muslims. They're funded not by churches but by those with desperate political motives. Osama Bin Laden may speak of the Qur'an but he is certainly no true Muslim.

Drunk or not, Smelnick, open your eyes and gain some perspective.

I'm drunk, and I was wrong. I do hate Muslims, and it's purely a racist belief. I know nothing of the Muslim faith and thus I automatically judge it. The only thing I know of Muslims is what I see on the news. I don't like it. I'm researching it as I speak,( the muslim faith that is). and I can see that it is as legitimate as my own christian beliefs. As for liimiting who can say 'Allah', thats dumb. That has no purpose as far as I can see. So let me retract my previous statements. Muslims are trying to be logical about their conflict, but they have stupid leaders that attempt to start wars where wars are not starting. Muslims aren't co adjoint with my own beliefs but they deserve some thought so I'm gonna read about them and then post a better formed opinion. Sorry for my drunken posting.

Although I am not prejudice or drunk I can't help but feel somewhat frightened or defensive when I think about the Angry Islam that wants to impose itself everywhere. For someone like myself, just an average shmuck, it's tough to think this kind of pickle through. On one side I want to find equality but on the other side I realize that these people think they are 100% correct and want to me to believe it too. That or kill me.

It is a small % of Islam that is like this but regardless, to impose such a law is simply ridiculous.

Then again I'd hate to preach to the choir.

This is strange, since the word Allah wasn't invented by the muslims. The arab christians - who existed before the arab muslims - have always used the word allah when they are talking about their own christian god. The same is true for the arab-speaking jews, they use the same word. The Malaysian government - not arab - should probably learn more about arabic, before they make stupid laws like this one.

Well, the idiot ministry who threatened the Catholic newsletter's license if they didn't stop using the magic word has apparently done a complete 360, and is now renewing the license with "no strings attached".

Just another thing to laugh at. Like the Petronas Twin Towers' spires.

You're the one talking about history, Mr. Landon, so since when do the religious do as their religion professes to teach? Hell, since when does any major organization?

Again with the history, there's a habit people have of taking things invented by others and claiming it as their own.

This is, quite simply, lulz. There's no room for argument as whether this course of action is "right" or even "legal." I say we bomb Malasyia back into the Stone Age for their blatant and disgusting violation of human rights.

I say we deport all Muslims from Malaysia to Australia.

That'll go down so well here in White Australia.

Also Christians never seem to like the way I use word like "God" and "Jesus Christ" sure, I'm swearing, but they're being just as retarded as these Malaysians.

Are you somehow assuming that I wouldn't know that?!

As a Muslim, I do tend to find that regulation rather absurd. The Islamic world though, needs to come to grips with a fundamental issue. Ever since the caliphate, it has always been looking to rebuild its empire and restore the former glory. But it keeps missing one fundamental point, which is that hundreds of years ago, Islam was the engine for global progress. Islam, as it is practiced in most places however, is now a speed-brake on that very development.

People as a whole need to come to terms with what it is they actually want, and what their aims will be as a result. But in the mean time, Malaysia is completely out of line.

Well they're back in line really, Blah the Singaporean has said that the Malays have realised they were being lolcows.

Fuck you too buddy. What have I ever done to get your hatred. I'm sure that your religion is all nectar and ambrosia, and that no one ever makes a mistake or overreacts.

Jeez... Some people.

Most things you usually see on the news aren't portrayed accurately otherwise nobody would watch it, showing the extremist stuff gets the ratings.

What if people speak Spanish in Malaysia, and say something beginning with "Ojalá que"? It means "May Allah grant that..." and is extremely common in the language, used to express something like "I really hope that..."

Language legislation doesn't work well. That is my opinion.

nothing there in qoran killing of infidels,and which mean about ten commandments?

why that will hate Muslims,they belief word Allah is like holy.that nothing will never change for you.

That's right,most people think most Muslims are terrorists,that not ture.Osama Bin Laden not true Muslim (most muslim annoyed about him he misstate meaning of Islam)

The Word Allah in the Arabic Bible
Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah,most news "specially" for USA give totally wrong information.not real news

In the below passages, substitute "infidels" for "unbelievers."

This is not a commentary on the religion of Islam, nor is this meant to illustrate any viewpoint I may have towards said religion. I'm merely pointing how incredibly stupid Ryu is.

Additional Spam:
Assuming? No, I'm not assuming anything. Your post insinuated you did not know that, don't blame me if you can't accurately convey your thoughts.

@Fresh Frank:you can give source that you posted?

Are you shitting me? Those are passages from the Koran.

Edit: I'll be a little more precise. The first number is the chapter, the second is the verse. Hence 8:12 is Chapter 8 (The Accessions), verse 12. This states, "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." How someone couled argue that doesn't encourage violence against the "infidel" is beyond me.

Ryu, if you honestly believe that the religion isn't easily twisted for the use of extremists, you're a fucking fool. Frank is only scratching the surface here.

-you only take one verse from Koran,if you read that page from this verse that for past not this time.

-ten commandments not all Muslim,there only some doctrines.

Rework that first sentence. It makes no sense at all.

And on the second one, yes, there are only some doctrines that use specific parts of the Koran, but they all (including b'hai) utilise some form of ethnocentric, xenophobic rhetoric. They are the chosen people vs the unbelievers. You're not doing well here, RYU. Stop flailing.

Quoting passages is fine anyone can twist views left right and centre; but just out of curiousity has anyone actualy read the whole thing?? English translations are easily obtainable.

I have read the whole Koran (In arabic and English) and its nothing like what most myopic folk who look at 1 or 2 paragraphs portray it to be. Sure there is one or two things I would I say I deplore and are outdated with the current moral values subjective to each society, even countries such as Pakistan with a 98% Muslim population don't use sharia law because of the aforementioned reason. Who the hell is somebody who lives in the West to judge who has better standards its toally subjective alot of the stuff you do they find deplorable and rightly so. The fact it doesn't say go bomb, murder, pilage, or rape, God has reserved pre-planned punishments for those that do. Plus I wish people really knew the true use and meaning of the word Jihad rather than just holy war against the west, which is wrong.

Islam's biggest problem is 'the brainwashers' as I like to call them who twist and twist so as to get these innocent young children to carry their will and NOT God's will. These people are always in it for themselves they don't give a shit about God and they are the ones that will burn in hell.

BTW

The line

Is actually in reference to the historic Battle of Badr, so know your stuff first rather than going onto some anti-Islamic website who doesn't know squat and just twists a quote and take it as gospel. Alot of the other lines are in references to other battles which have taken place in history e.g. Battle of Tabouk. So it doesn't say a Muslim should go blow up the white man which is most of you short sighted folk and those extremist pigs like Bin Laden who twist it think it to mean.

I'm only make view point,not that if i'm doing well or not.and why you disturb? is only discussion.

Yeah, I've read it. Last year (English), and I plan on reading through it again this month. I posted a disclaimer at the bottom of my post of the excerpts for the reasons you state above.

I'm not sying Islam is evil. I'm not saying Muslims are wrong. What I'm saying, well, I'm not. Deni said it already.

Additional Spam:
I don't understand your bastardized English.

Yeah, Fernando, I've read the whole thing. And it seems exclusionary and reactionary like most western religious texts. The problem here is you have two reactionary sides. One, like Smelnick, is made of people who hates muslims because, well, because let's be fair, lately, it's difficult not to look at them with derision given the activities of the extremists (Seen Jesus Camp? Watch it and tell me you don't take umbrage with Christians for not publicly condemning the actions of a minority. Just saying.) And the other, like RYU, jump up and down saying there's nothing wrong with the Muslim faith. But there is. Just like there are lots of things wrong with Christianity, and Shintoism. Being close-mindedly liberal is as retarded as being close-mindedly conservative.

Maybe if "true" moderate Muslims would open their mouths and condemn extremist Islam at any occasion they can, the western world wouldn't be so vindicative in it's view of Islam. I heard the protests from the official European Muslim organizations during the Mahomet caricature crisis, but I don't hear them condemning terrorist attacks and religious oppressions that happen every weeks.

Just saying, it would help drawing a line, you know.

HAHAHA

That's like, telling Catholics in the Philippines to condemn the Branch Davidian cult in America. It is a silly, tired argument born of an unfortunate tendency to lump together groups whose only connection is the name of their beliefs.

Not to mention that Muslim leaders have been doing it. You just never notice.

And it doesn't solve a damn thing anyway.

You know, that happens a lot regarding the Hebrew Bible/New Testament, as well. A lot of people will read verses out of context. So, we all can say, that is probably a reference, sure.

However, the problem lies with the fact that God is supposed to be eternal and never-changing. If God claims that he'd kill non-believers the first time, what's keeping him back this time? Bin Laden might be twisting it to mean something, but essentially, isn't he being pretty true to the intent of the Koran?

This is a far-stretched and invalid analogy on so many levels. Let's just mention the fact the Vatican has always condemned the IRA, shall we ?

And I'm sure some do, but you gotta admit it's a vastly ambiguous situation.

How many followers do the Vatican represent? That's awfully ambiguous as well. You're asking for lip service that's both unreasonable and ineffectual.

I simply hate it when people use guilt -- or worse, vicarious guilt -- as some sort of leverage.

I don't see how it is ambiguous, nope. The centralization and hierarchic system of the Catholic church is kind of a special case though, yes.

If you really don't want to see the correlation between the fact the world is flooded with extreme acts committed by Muslims that no other Muslims openly and firmly condemn and the growing incomprehension of Islam in the Western world, then I don't know what to add. =/

To me, the Islamic communities worldwide should be demonstrating when others commit despicable acts in the name of their faith, but hey, I guess I'm an idealist or something ~

Cool. I just heard a segment called "Ask a Muslim" on a morning radio talk show I enjoy. Here's a few things the guest mentioned...

Islam is a religion of peace. Muslims advocate drawing close to God and living a godly life.

It's frustrating to many Muslims to constantly tell people what they aren't instead of getting to tell them what they are.

Treating women poorly is a misuse of the Islamic faith.

Many of the most populous muslim countries have or have had female rulers at the highest level of office.

Infidel is a Catholic term, not an Islamic one.

There is no Islamic clergy. Additional respect is given to theologians, but it isn't a position of power.

Many muslims do in fact denounce radical Islamists. But that sort of thing is hardly news worthy so we often don't hear about it. However, the outcry against radicalism needs to be louder in certain parts of the world.

The footage from Palestine of muslims celebrating the 9-11 attack was more about celebrating the success of a muslim rather than the death of 2000+ innocents. Not unlike the way many African Americans celebrated O.J.'s freedom but not Nicole's death.

Feel free to visit or call your nearest Islamic center. They will be more than happy to answer your questions and explain the truth about their faith.

Many muslims actually have great affinity for America: movies, music, cars, people. But many muslims can't stand our foreign policy. This includes the unconditional support of Israel, but also dictatorships in the middle east.

There were some other points as well. The hosts asked questions and let callers ask some as well. Not as fun as the "Ask a whore" or "Axe a black" segments this show has had in the past, but still very entertaining and informative.

Ok, pineapple, you understand why a lot of that doesn't work, right? I.E. there is muslim clergy in a very powerful position. They lead entire factions, and governments. And also I believe the "many" countries is like, two or three. And one of them got shot. Also, the catholics are a religion of peace. Oh, Crusades. Oops. And they were cheering the success of a muslim IN KILLING THOUSANDS OF FUCKING INNOCENTS.

God, get a grip. Propaganda is propaganda is propaganda. The religion is flawed.

I'm not saying I agree with everything I paraphrased. But I did find the interview very informative at times. I think it really helped to hear things from a different perspective.

"Many countries" means at least four. Yeah, not sure if that qualifies as 'many', but I don't know how many democratic countries have large muslim populations.

I don't doubt that there are powerful muslim leaders, but my understanding from what I heard was that the political power they wield is not prescribed by Islamic teachings.

I find it interesting, or to be more honest, depressing how the majority of those who cling to Islam or Christianity appear to do so in a way that isn't true to the teachings of those faiths. Well, maybe the majority isn't doing things the way they should be...but they are a majority so they end up being representatives. D'oh!

No, you're just a weird person who thinks demonstrations are required to compensate for outside ignorance. Demonstrations condemning Western countries or policies are barely noticed as it is.

Also, pro-religion propaganda? In my Palace?

lol, let's all knowingly celebrate something we know is wrong and then expect people to think that's cool.

Let's not kid ourselves, they enjoyed the sight of the WTC towers crumbling. The morning after the incident I went to my General Paper class, and my tutor (an Indian female) was almost beside herself with glee. SERVES THEM RIGHT, she said. And everyone in class giggled.

And this is a pro-America country.

People in general, especially large groups of them, can be and often are...idiots.

Oh, don't pretend you guys don't do it too. Emotional detachment, Internet, et cetera.

Oh yeah:

http://www.bigblah.net/upload/tawtc.jpg

I don't see how it is so weird in our modern globalized times. Besides, I witness this on both an international and local point of view. See my Mohamed caricature reference earlier.

Answering "lulz all terrorists" to any thread that involves a westerner criticizing Islam is fine I guess, but trying to understand the causes behind it would be better.

To push another analogy, have you seen wide-scale demonstrations by Christians against pedophiliac clergymen? And somehow it's easier for everyone to accept that these are isolated cases without the aid of street protests.

Understanding works both ways!

http://www.bigblah.net/upload/amerikkka.jpg


(This picture is a representation of just how horribly off tangent the argument has gotten, because I simply cannot fathom how 9/11 relates to the Malaysian religious ministry acting like dicks)

But pedophiliac clergymen are sanctioned by their church ... =/

And yes, this has gotten off tangent like pretty much all Islam related topics do. I'll grant you that pretty much all Bush/American foreign policy topics do as well, though. ~_~

I found it strange that a muslim country like Malaysia would do such a thing that goes against Islam it self. I do still find this strange even though " there's a habit people have of taking things invented by others and claiming it as their own."

There's a habit there of being stupid. This latest boo-boo is just the tip of the iceberg as far as racial and religious discrimination go.

The minority races are pretty good at sucking it up, though.

@niki

Look at Pakistan situation, President Mr. Musharraf is all on against terrorists, he has not only condemned clergy, not only banned loudspeaker speeches in most of the rural areas, but he has been fighting agaisnt them all around pakistan.

Inspite of doing all this he has been criticized by western media(people like bigblah who can't accept muslims in any condition, it seems some have extreme grudges against muslims and cant think objectively), they are always looking for opportunity to pull leg of those WHO are 'fighting' terrorists , same terrrorists that were created in russia war by west at the first place(it has been said by musharraf in interview and the person taking interview was zipped).

First accept that these terrorists are your own creation. How many weapons ere given to them by west through pakistan?
If you are not ready to accpet it, thats another thing.


And support people like Musharraf , instead of demoralizing them.
When people like him do positive things, no one make topics to discuss or appreciate, but when one single negative step by some person/country(like malaysia in this case), evryone sees opportunity to blast religion...wow.


Others on this forum should first read their bible, and oldtestament again and try to compare their life , how far they are in terms of following actually what Jesus said.

In the wake of original sin, everyone is doing evry possible sinthey ever can, drugs,alcohol, sex etc, which is forbidden in their text too.
Check the RATE of rape/incest in west, against islamic countires for instance.
Does homosexuality is supported by your religion?

I can point verses form Bible too , in which its is suggested to have holywar and use force.

Also trinity concept so blown out of proportion, can anyone here point me any single verse from bilble using the word trinity at all, its all pope/clergy idea isnt it?



But thats no the point.
Point is as i said earilier in posts, don't compare actual religion with what some or majority do.
You are educated poeple read it and decide yourself.
Even if majority of NAMESAKE muslims or Nominally christians will do something i will as educated person will not judge their religion by their action, infact i iwll read the actual stuff and will support only those who are actually following whats actually there not out of context stuff but actual stuff.



As far as malaysian stance goes, i would say its their country, let them be, why to make issue of it, but yes its totally stupid to do that by malaysians , coz there is the same Word used by Jesus before crucification present in bible/oldtestament, so evry christian has right to use it.

That is a rather intriguing conclusion, sexninja. My takeaway from most religions is: it doesn't matter what you read or what you [i]believe]/i]. It is what you do.

At any rate, this topic seemed to have gone quite off-tangent. The original premise is moot, as Bigblah has reported that the Malaysian ministry responsible for such a proclamation has backed away quietly from the issue.

All in all, a case of open mouth, insert foot for the authorities methinks. Not exactly surprising in this part of the world, really. If you wish to continue the argument about religion, particularly Islam, perhaps another thread would be more appropriate.