This debate is so all over the place. Why the hell are we discussing Syphon Filter anyway? It has nothing to do with Nintendo being kiddy.

First of all, even questioning the mentality of whether or not Pikmin is a subtle kids game or not is major lol. Secondly, Madden has violence, and there's always mild violence in almost every game you see. That's usually how games work, people die, and you continue playing until you're capable of passing an area without dying.

Hardly reality. Except Gran Turismo 4 is attempting to imitate reality with the graphics and "real driving simulator" rubbish. I own 3, I've spent a decent amount of hours in 3, but I wouldn't consider it to be that real. Back when it was released, sure, but that was 2002 or something.

Pikmin's concept is simple, uncomplicated and anyone can do it. Madden has violence, isn't simple for people who haven't a clue of sports, and not for everyone. Gran Turismo is the same, and gets very complicated very easily, especially with the training courses and such. Both games have more depth over Pikmin, and aren't as challenging.

Speaking of Gran Turismo, how anyone can sit there through 200 laps of the same repetitive shit is beyond me. But that's another story.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4...here1qk5dj.jpg

Sorry, just because it's free doesn't mean we can't complain about what we don't like. Besides, we bought the games in the first place.

I don't really like what they did with their online, in more ways than one. Overall, the Nintendo Wi-Fi system is awesome, but it could be so much better.

Friend codes are OK, but there are much better ways to manage that.

My biggest complaint about NWC is that they expect you to open up every UDP port to wherever you're making the connection, being assigning an IP address to your DS to a computer with the USB connector. Somebody never told Nintendo anything about network security.

The worst thing is, if you don't do that, you'll run the risk not being able to connect to some people.

As I said, overall, it works and is good, but still could be better.

I'm pretty suprised at how this topic turned out. So now we're defining which games are kiddy and which are not?

4 people cannot balance themselves on a small 10 Sq Ft chunk of island while dodging cannon fire in real life :(

It's kinda hard NOT to talk about Nintendo's kiddy image WITHOUT defining what each of us think are kiddy games or not.

That first bit didn't prove that Pikmin is kiddy at all.
And neither did the third bit.

Madden being more complicated for those who have no clue about the sport is no indication whatsoever that it is for 'teh mature' people.
It just means that the learning curve is slightly higher than most games, and is more for people who DO know the sport.
Harder and more complex makes not a mature game.

99% of the time, it does. Some kid is not going to get through Ikaruga without dying. A 20-something-year-old-guy could. The frustration in games can only keep a persistant young gamer amused for so long, before they're pissed off and stop playing. Someone with more patience and the will to practice is more likely to succeed, which is usually someone who is more mature and older.

Mario Soccer and Winning Eleven 10. Which is more "kiddy" and which would be easier to play? The comparison is obvious. Most games that are targetted at kids, whether they're within a concept (here, the concept is sports, shrouded by Mario and crew) or not, they're still getting the message out. Sports games. For kids.

And besides, I would doubt that very many kids prefer Winning Eleven, or any sports game for that matter, over the likes of Mario Kart or Mario Soccer. Unless you have some hardcore soccer fan, they're going to settle with the more colorful, "for kids" title. It's marketing, and it works.

I think the difference here is that of arcade style and simulation style. Most kids do prefer arcade style games as opposed to sim style, I'm not questioning that point. However, that does not mean older gamers are going to be appealed by sims more so than arcade style gaming. It is generally easier to get people to pick up and play arcade games than sims, and this is how Nintendo like to make its games. It's something that can be played by both younger and older audiences. The market between arcade and simulation games is a somewhat different subject.

Even though I kidded about Pikmin earlier, I'd argue that Pikmin really is more violent than Madden, or at least as violent. I'd also say that Pikmin is a relatively difficult game, especially for a child, and to do well (especially for, say, challenge mode in Pikmin 2) requires pretty advanced thinking skills.

I think children can enjoy it, but it's not exclusively for children. Honestly, I think kiddy can only be defined as something children alone find entertaining.

I cannot think of a single Nintendo game that fits that description.

Nor would my mother. She plays games though. but she's not a kid OSHI...

That's just your own assumption. I'll just top you and give you a single example based on one person: Me.
When I was a kid I was damn persistant, and completed tons of games I wouldn't have the time or patience for anymore - I loose interest faster after getting older.

Fixed.

Fixed.

Fixed.

HostileCreations post described it perfectly. Elixir, read it again, and again, and again. And then just one last time.

Only people with personal issues would be emabarrased to play games in front of their friends or non-gamers. Thats the only reason games get labeled as "kiddie" unless it says EC on the box.

Can we lock this now? Its a dead horse getting beaten to its 100th death.

I can pick your response to pieces as well, but nobody wants to hear it. So why did you?

First of all. It doesn't matter what the ESRB rating is. If it did, kids wouldn't be playing GTA, Manhunt, Under Pressure or Resident Evil 4 for that matter. But they manage to do so without any trouble whatsoever.

Second of all, gore and fighting games still end up in the hands of kids. Why? Because it's "cool" to have games which you aren't meant to have. But what does this have to do with anything? Well, the point I'm making is that the "Everyone" rating is irrelevant. Read that again, and again, and again, and feel free to stop sucking your own dick in the process.

Third of all, take a 10 year old kid. He has just purchased Resident Evil 4, a game which has an R rating and also has gore, fighting, blood, death, and all the rest that's considered bad for kids. The game itself is pretty difficult in itself, and he's more likely to be frustrated with that over a Mario title or something more subtle.

That's a perfect example of a game which is aimed at the mature audience, hence the rating, but is one that kids would play. And when they're frustrated with a game, they'll go back to their Mario or Pikmin (which isn't hard, what a crock of shit) titles that are more "fun."

Because "fun" for kids, is easy. No majority of kid wants a challenge in a game. Fuck me blind if you see someone under 15 who appreciates shooting games (not first person shooters, you mainstream motherfuckers) for what they're really worth. The key in this is frustration. Depending on your age depends on how far you're going to tolerate a game for.

My mother plays Ms. Pacman, and she blames the controller. She's done this possibly over a hundred times. But you know what? She continues to play it. If she isn't in the mood, she won't play it. Parents and people of that age aren't meant to take games seriously, and they are more likely to play an easy game. The competitive gaming edge mostly applies to 15~45 year olds.

That said, most adults 25+ will be found with an xbox, PS2, or both. With sports, fighting, or first person shooting titles. It's because they're familiar with sports, shooting, or fighting. They associate with their games as they do with real life activities.

Of course, shooting, fighting, and sports, are all real life events. But you aren't going to find something like Halo in real life, that's just something brought on by popularity as a remix variation of something that's already enjoyed. First person shooting. Millions of xboxtards flock to E3 for information on Halo 3, millions of PStards await the next GTA. Why? Because that's what they associate with.

And the Gamecube fans flock to E3 for, well, the Revolution. Because the Gamecube is dead. The people that still own a Gamecube aren't playing it for the upcoming titles (there's not even that many, now) but for what they currently own, don't have, or they're not wealthy enough to purchase a console with more variety.

And what little of the Gamecube is left, will be either 1) Titles made from movies, such as X-Men, Spiderman, The Incredibles, or 2) Games released on the Gamecube as a test to see how well they'll perform on other consoles. They've been doing this for years with the Dreamcast, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Gamecube became undead and obscure japanese companies made beta games on it first, just to see how it pans out.

But enough about the Gamecube. The majority of kids (I know when I was one, I'd always be appealed by the characters and bright colors, over the more "mature" stuff) will go for Nintendo material. The majority of teenagers will go for the PS2. And the majority of adults seem to lean towards the xbox. Gamecube has the largest array of mainsteam cartoonish titles, while PS2 has the largest variety and is really a mixed bag. And then there's the xbox, with it's sports, fps, and fighting games which it's known for.

Given this fact, most collections you'll see out of gamers or just casual console owners in general, will either contain a Dead or Alive title for xbox owners, SSBM, Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion (in other words, a "aimed at kids" title) for the Gamecube owners, and for PS2 I can't really tell.

I must address that ultimately it's the range of games that the console designers decide to produce and help produce which influence their console and what people will view their console as. It's up to the consumer to purchase whichever they prefer.

It's inevitable to avoid or ignore the amount of titles on the Gamecube that are regarded as "kiddy", and if they weren't, this topic wouldn't exist. Which would be a good thing. Nintendo have brought this on upon themselves, along with the help of little others. But do proper titles like Beyond Good & Evil get the attention they deserve? Psychonauts? Nooooo, it doesn't have Mario on it or the Nintendo logo.

Also, it hasn't been confronted in this thread that Gamecube/Nintendo titles have to be exclusive to "kids only" for their reputation to exist. Simply because it isn't true, and you're free to play games at leisure. But the obvious won't go away just because people are decisive in their purchases - Nintendo products have always been bought for kids, from parents, or for kids, by kids. Whether you're an adult or not doesn't matter because the majority overrules the rest.

tl;dr) ESRB ratings are irrelevant, the majority of Gamecube games are for kids, games are only worth what the user gets out of them. Thread over.

I'm thinking about it. We haven't had a tiku tiku thread in a long long time.

No dont lock it!.This is actually turning out to be quite a good discussion. although im only reading ^^.

Okay fine.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5030/nesclk38qm.jpg

But if this doesn't become a better discussion by that time US EST then I will lock it.

Out of Mario Soccer and Winning Eleven 10, guess which one is more fun.

You may say basic and simple makes it "kiddie." I however, say it has to be made that way to allow it to be fun.

You can't really make a game that's super-realistic and then throw in elements that are completely unrealistic and overexaggerated.

!_!. Im not really good at maths so im not going to even bother calculating what that is in "my time". v_v. Its been a good discussion i suppose. You can lock it if you want.

http://nekochan.cupped-expressions.n...miji-chibi.jpg

*sniff*

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

This is virtually the only real kiddy game on GameCube, okay. There are no bosses lusting for plasma, no emotional jumps over pits of angry lost souls, no swords eight hundred times bigger than the main character. No challenge or point at all. A baby could play it via the womb. And it's awesome.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2066/enjoy2sw.jpg

It'll be in about 15 hours, kisame. Make it good, guys.

lol, Infernal's kicking it off well. ='D

You know we just need a new Mario RPG.
Preferably The Saga of Mario - Episode XVI Part 3 - The Legendary Myth Magic Warriors of the Shadow of Darkness and Flame's Destined Sacred Aura

http://myy.helia.fi/~a0400729/Pics/mario.bmp
lol oldie!

Lol, I once owned pokemon channel. WHAT? i won it at a ssbm tournie :). Its extremly akward. No story line nothing. You just sit down and pat your pikachu all day...

Proper titles? Please explain this.

I heard a rumour that people didn't buy the GameCube version of Psyconauts because there was no GameCube version of Psyconauts. But I'm sure that if there was a GameCube version, of Psyconauts, on GameCube, that GameCube owners wouldn't buy the GameCube version of Psyconauts for GameCube due to the fact that Psyconauts (the GameCube version) wouldn't contain enough Mario or Nintendo logo. Oh sure, the GameCube version (of Psyconauts) would indeed have the Nintendo logo somewhere, possibly around the GameCube logo, because it's a GameCube version of Psyconauts, but it just wouldn't be enough.

To succeed, it (the GameCube version of Psyconauts) would need to be renamed Mario's Caramel Chew Cute Factory. But I guess we'll never know, as there was no GameCube version. Mario's Caramel Chew Cute Factory is however avaliable on PlayStation 2, PC and Xbox.

<3<3

Funny, my sister and brother-in-law, who fit perfectly into the mold you described, have a PS2. And yet, the only game they play on it is a game that I got for my brother-in-law for his birthday.

And do you know what game it is? We Love Katamari.

Sorta shoots your point down, doesn't it?

Twilight Princess. =\

I sorta do agree with your point about the Gamecube becoming a test platform, though.

Wasn't Psychonauts critically acclaimed? That's quite a bit of attention.

If ESRB ratings are so irrelevant, then why is the government raising a big stink about (unconstitutionally) giving the ESRB the power to enforce its ratings, or closing down the ESRB and opening their own review board?

Actually no you are completely wrong. The #1 reason why the kids get the games is because of irresposible parents. They don't know about the ratings, they don't read the boxes. I see it everyday at work. All it takes is to let the parent know that the game was designed for people 17+ and they make their child pick a different game. I do not stop them from taking a title. Just educate them on whats going on. And from this over 98% of the parents made their child pick another one. A couple say that its ok because they watch their child play, and there is one who doesn't care. But to say the ratings are irrelevant is just plain stupid.

Don't give me that bullshit. BG&E bombed because Ubisoft let it. It decided to release it and 2 other titles in the same holiday season. And where did all the marketing money go to? Thats right...Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell. There were plans for a trilogy with it, but that is gone cause Ubisoft screwed it.

I think that treadmill is calling you...

Beyond Good and Evil probably failed becaus

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4...scomic31pz.jpg

nd that's why they stopped serving the frozen fish. I hope you all took notes, there will be a test next week.