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Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
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My point is that Congress (and you) are more than willing to open the checkbook -- DAMN THE COSTS! -- when an extremely rare and very vivid tragedy happens, but the every day shit you (and Congress) just don't care about. Not enough to do anything about it, certainly less than you'd do about the bridges. You are perfectly fine with acceptable deaths, thousands of them, as long as it doesn't set us back in to the stone age (which is apparently when cars were invented). But if it doesn't set you back at all, we should open the floodgates to the budget to save even one life! Making a law to fix bridges saves almost no lives and costs an extremely high amount of money to save the very few people who would die from accidents.
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
and Brandy does her best to understand
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Ghost |
Brady/Mikey, quit arguing about this shit. If you had a time machine, any rational person would've spent the money to repair that bridge. In addition to saving lives (and I think economists estimated people are willing to spend ~$1mill/American life to protect), repairing the bridge would be cheaper than replacing it will be. Plus, there's the opportunity cost from having the bridge out: people spending longer commuting, things delayed, etc. etc.
Don't chase safety pies in the sky, point taken. But Brady's not even asking for any more effort looking for problems! You spend on the best practicable technology, and make the effort to meet your own maintenance and safety standards and generally keep an eye out. I was speaking idiomatically. |
As a note, I was reading a USA Today the other week and there was a letter sent in by some civil engineering PhD at a university that talked about how the safety of bridges are rated. Apparently there's a whole slew of actual safety factors, then it's modified by the cost of repair, cost of detours, difficulty of detours, loss to business during detours, how critical the piece of infrastructure is, and how reliable the report actually is. Also, a few years ago they had done a study on how well bridge inspectors could find various defects in bridges. Apparently even the experienced ones could only do around 5% detection of propagating cracks through the concrete. What they said was really needed was new methods of trying to detect faults and newer field tests methods that would find cracks that were typically missed by inspectors. Most amazing jew boots |
Stop trolling this thread.
Cars provide the same benefit, while a bridge does not. Bridges present an avoidable risk because they are a predictable liability, whereas the damage caused by car exhaust is unpredictable. If the report states that a bridge is unstable, and it eventually collapses, then the report is reliable. It doesn't matter how long it took the bridge to collapse, it did so by virtue of its being unstable. Following your logic, it's not worth repairing any bridges because there's no point in avoiding the risk. Also, please don't be a faggot. The viaduct collapse killed 41 people, this recent collapse killed maybe more than 20. This isn't about saving one life. FELIPE NO |
But the bridge obviously wasn't a predictable liability! It remained standing 17 years after they said it was unstable! Reread RR's post.
I didn't say it wasn't worth repairing any bridges, I never said that. I also never said it wasn't worth trying to avoid risk. You have to find the trade-off between fixing bridges and the cost of fixing bridges. You've been sitting here telling me that there is NO trade off, that fixing bridges always comes first no matter what! Let's say for the sake of argument bridges are 99% reliable. To make it 99.9% reliable, it will take X dollars. Every 9 you add on after that grows the cost exponentially. (Or if they are 50%, go to 75%, then 85%, then 90%, etc. etc.) We could spend $50 trillion dollars and make it so the bridges are 99.9999999999% safe, probably. Do you consider that worth it? Since we obviously aren't allowed to justify the loss of life, we should spend an infinite amount of money on fixing the infrastructure. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
and Brandy does her best to understand
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Jam it back in, in the dark.
Last edited by Sarag; Aug 11, 2007 at 07:43 PM.
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Stop trolling this thread or I will ban you from it.
Some bridges simply cannot be fixed, and in those cases one has to wait until a proper time at which they can be fixed. Claiming that it would take an infinite amount of money, however, is a bit shortsighted. Do we even have any figures yet concerning how much it would cost to fix unstable bridges? You're right that it was wrong for me to make the blanket statement that maintaining infrastructure should take priority over everything else, I wasn't really thinking. Though I still believe that maintenance of infrastructure should be government's number one priority and that the necessary funds should always be appropriated towards it before wasting our money on subsidies and various other claptrap. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Additional Spam:
So, define "fix". Works for 10 more years? 50 more years? Works forever? How about it's reliability? 80% stable for 10 years? 70% stable for 50 years? You have to find where your acceptable loss point is. My point is that whatever it is that got us to here isn't too bad. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
and Brandy does her best to understand
Last edited by BlueMikey; Aug 11, 2007 at 05:28 PM.
Reason: This member got a little too post happy.
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You brought up the stadium and the tax increase several times in connection to misspending by the homogenized government (I will get to this in a moment). Given that no one who controls this sort of thing knew that the bridge was in danger of imminent collapse, it is doubtful that this tax increase would instead have paid for a repair of the bridge even if that was within the realm of possibility; even still, it would not have saved the bridge. You were being intellectually dishonest by bringing it up. It is often cheaper and more economical to replace infractructure (bridges, roads etc) than to repair them. In fact, with the viaduct that fell during the earthquake, they had to rethink the entire design of viaducts after that disaster. Repairing it and retrofitting it would have been an expensive bandaid. You are wrong in this account. Also, you feel that repair of the entire road system should come before new projects. I'm sure that you practice this philosophy in your personal life, making sure your credit card bills are paid before you go to to see The Bourne Ultimatum, but personal finance doesn't scale up to match the finances of an entire country. Frequently new road works are more necessary than filling potholes in your neighbourhood. You show a distressing lack of scale in thought. You suggest a corporation will take the politics out of infrastructure. This is ridiculous but I will get to it in a moment. You tell me that we have "already gotten over" the one company business, but a quick scan of the thread shows you haven't really addressed it. So you are lying again. Even still, due to the nature of the business, infrastructure companies really couldn't compete with each other, since everyone needs efficient roads that get them where they want to go. You have several times said that the very nature of corporations is that they compete, and that they produce the most effective use of funds due to this competition, but this competition within the infrastructure business couldn't exist. You are wrong on this account. you suggest that anonymous 'shareholders' who have done nothing to earn their place in a corporation would have more interest in the goings-on of that corporation than the voters who have done nothing except gain citizenship to earn that right to vote. This shows a willfull ignorance of the behavior of people. You say that 'politics' would be taken out of the equasion when we move to a corporate-based system, but then admit that the 'shareholders' would elect board members. that sounds like politics to any thinking man, and shows that you don't know what you're talking about. You say that the corporation would compete with itself because no one would use shitty roads. This is obviously false. The corporation would still exact tolls, of the same price as would be for the road when it was new and perfect, for roads that were in serious disrepair. There is no incentive for the corporation to improve the road until it is undriveable. You are wrong. You accuse sports teams of 'extortion' for threatning to leave if they don't get a new ballpark. But yet, this is free market bargaining. If a sports team is too prima-donna, no city will want them. let the market sort it out. You are betraying your free market ideals because it's crazy moon-man logic. You believe in crazy moon-man logic. You hold the government responsible for not forseeing the bridge collapse. "17years known deficient, how dare they!" you say. RR already explained how human engineers can only predict 5% of cracks in bridges, but nevermind that. How dare you claim 20/20 hindsight on something that happened a week ago; not only is this a liberal trait, but most people have the decency to put a few months between themselves and the event before claiming they "knew it all along." The fact is, it was declared deficient 17 years ago, but there was a survey of the bridge not a few years ago and they saw nothing outstanding. Your company would not do a better job, since your company would be using the same people and techniques to judge bridges as the government does, and would not throw money on bridges unless it had to. You hold a naive, idealized view of corporations and it has made you wrong yet again. You tell Styphon that people don't have to drive on roads, that they can use alternate forms of transportation. Most of those forms of transportation require the use of roads. Once again you are proven mistaken, and you dropped the point so rapidly I dare say you knew it. You say being drunk doesn't present an elevated risk in and of itself (which is wrong: aside from the health risks of over drinking, you lose motor skills and impair your judgement which can lead to picking fights with bad dudes which is risky) while driving in and of itself is a risk; therefore, drunk driving is no additional risk. You play word games on the level of Gumby, who in the journals has been insisting that driving is a right and not a privilege. You should look in on that, that might be more up your alley. You claim taxes are theft. This is incorrect. You support the gold standard. This has nothing to do with the thread but jesus. You support anarchy. This has everything to do with your thread. Jesus. You give Mikey shit for rationalizing deaths when you do the very same. You care nothing for your fellow man but we already knew that, Oklahoma Sexy Patrol You mock the concept of 'theft of liberty' in regards to breaking the law as theft (something that came out of your mouth and not mine), but then you say you would much rather suffer serious, debilitating bodily harm rather than suffer theft of freedom. you're the worst coward there is; you shit bricks when it's your turn to suffer, but you mock the fear of others who suffer the same. You think that roads that are not bridges don't matter because they're not under the threat of falling down. You show a disturbing lack of imagination in that crumbling roads are still unsafe to drive. Will your corporation demonstrate the same lack of imagination? You accuse my liberalism as being akin to the cook in Oliver Twist. Does this mean I don't feed starving poor children? That is nothing like bleeding heart liberalism. You don't know what a metaphor is. You feel that paying tolls is consentual, but that driving on roads paid by your tax dollars (you already paid the tolls due to the virtue of being a tax payer) is non-consentual because you're not aware that accidents can happen. This is crazy moon-man logic again. You suggest coyly that Minnesota was negligent (perhaps conspiring to do so?) and say that that is a conflict of interest. I asked you to elaborate but you never did. I can only assume you brought it up to, like I said before, accuse a state of conspiracy to murder in order to get sweet fundzzz. You constantly whine about people not addressing the things you're discussing, but you dropped questions I have asked at least three times. You're a prima-donna with a short memory span. You admit that the government produces services, but don't create. You also admit that companies that produce services create. You admit that both recieve revenue for their products. You have a difficult time with applying concepts in different contexts. You have said many times that governments are non-competitive in any real meaningful sense of the word. I assume you're talking about federal governments, but the thing you haven't admitted at all is that the 'government' is not a homogenous entity. There are many different agencies within the federal government! There are state and local governments that jockey with each other for funds! There are many lobbyists all trying to get their cut! Even though you say that the government has a steady income due to tax (laughable since taxes change all the time and affect different groups of varying wealth; additionally the government has different outgoing expenses that change from year to year, such as the Iraq war) this income is not infinite; even though the US government spends outside of its means frequently, it doesn't mean it hands blank checks to everyone with their hands out. This is all stuff children know. The end result is that the government within the realm of itself is competing for funds for the road system as a whole, and that state and local governments within this sytem compete with each other for funds. I asked you several times to no avail about this. I thought that you were trolling, at first, since this is your MO, but now I think you genuinely believe this shit, and you're just exaggerating for funs. YOU ARE EDUCATED RETARDED. go anarchy (tolls everywhere aren't tho~) [b]Now this is the story all about how My life got flipped, turned upside down And I’d like to take a minute just sit right there I’ll tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE go anarchy :love: GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE Ritalinal: you seen those 7chan shota pics? Ritalinal: JOEY? Col Jacen Solo: No. Don't look at shota. Ritalinal: u should! Ritalinal: its cool =D Col Jacen Solo: meh. I fap on my own, porn helps, but I enjoy my own adventures... Ritalinal: wanna see which one i'm looking at? Ritalinal: HUH? Col Jacen Solo: Not really Alex... Ritalinal: it's one of zelda, and link =D GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE In west philadelfia born and raised On the playground where I spent most of my days Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school When a couple of guys said "we’re up in no good" Started making trouble in my neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said "you’re moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air" GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE (only the first three episodes of season one) GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE I begged and pleaded with her the other day But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way She gave me a kissin’ and she gave me my ticket I put my walkman on and said I might aswell kick it GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE First class, yo this is bad, Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass Is this what the people of bel-air livin’ like, Hmm this might be alright! I whistled for a cab and when it came near the Licensplate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror If anything I could say that this cab was rare But I thought now forget it, yo home to bel-air I pulled up to a house about seven or eight And I yelled to the cabby "yo, home smell you later" Looked at my kingdom I was finally there To settle my throne as the prince of bel-air Alright fagts. Listen up, I'm not doing this for my health, I have other things do to than to put up with anonymous, but as a back up, I decided I'd make use of myself. Wuori and I became 'Friends.' And I've learned he is far sicker than you can imagine. This kid is obessed with /b/, I have my own personal vendetta, and problems with Anon. This kid makes that look like issues on a playground, what the fuck did you do to this fucking psycho. I have never met someone to hateful towards /b/, I broke off with him, and pity the poor bastard a lot. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care how much you guys hate Shiahgo, or Humane Weapons. That's not my biggest issue, my issue is this fuck harassing me. Now. NEW INFORMATION REGARDING WUORI. 1. Wuori is a Runescaper. Account name Ritalina. 2. Wuori is a Gaiauser, Account name is unknown. 3. Wuori is so obessed with /b/, he is texting me at least 100 times a day with plans on revenage. 4. Wuori created an operation called 'Chanfire' planning on causing an inner chan war. (tolls everywhere aren't tho~) Alright fagts. Listen up, I'm not doing this for my health, I have other things do to than to put up with anonymous, but as a back up, I decided I'd make use of myself. Wuori and I became 'Friends.' And I've learned he is far sicker than you can imagine. This kid is obessed with /b/, I have my own personal vendetta, and problems with Anon. This kid makes that look like issues on a playground, what the fuck did you do to this fucking psycho. I have never met someone to hateful towards /b/, I broke off with him, and pity the poor bastard a lot. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care how much you guys hate Shiahgo, or Humane Weapons. That's not my biggest issue, my issue is this fuck harassing me. Now. NEW INFORMATION REGARDING WUORI. 1. Wuori is a Runescaper. Account name Ritalina. [img] http://www.charitableirishsociety.org/images/AMERICAN%20FLAG.gif[/img] 2. Wuori is a Gaiauser, Account name is unknown. 3. Wuori is so obessed with /b/, he is texting me at least 100 times a day with plans on revenage. 4. Wuori created an operation called 'Chanfire' planning on causing an inner chan war. [b]Now this is the story all about how My life got flipped, turned upside down And I’d like to take a minute just sit right there I’ll tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air (tolls everywhere aren't tho~) In west philadelfia born and raised On the playground where I spent most of my days Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school When a couple of guys said "we’re up in no good" Started making trouble in my neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said "you’re moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air" (only the first three episodes of season one) I begged and pleaded with her the other day But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way She gave me a kissin’ and she gave me my ticket I put my walkman on and said I might aswell kick it First class, yo this is bad, Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass Is this what the people of bel-air livin’ like, Hmm this might be alright! I whistled for a cab and when it came near the Licensplate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror If anything I could say that this cab was rare But I thought now forget it, yo home to bel-air (tolls everywhere aren't tho~) I pulled up to a house about seven or eight And I yelled to the cabby "yo, home smell you later" Looked at my kingdom I was finally there To settle my throne as the prince of bel-air GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE cocks I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Last edited by Sarag; Aug 11, 2007 at 07:43 PM.
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Owned to death.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Well now we're getting somewhere.
FELIPE NO |
I nominate lurker's explosion of genius for PP Post of the year. Hell, GFF Post of the year.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Whether the retrofits would have failed is still an uncertainty, the point is to illustrate that the government failed to act under means that were considered to be reasonable at the time.
It is practically extortion.
There's no parallel between repairing bridges, and banning carcinogens, because while the latter would end deaths caused by carcinogens it would in effect lower life expectancies and make people die from causes before they could die from carcinogens. A collapsed bridge doesn't raise life expectancies. This doesn't mean that Mikey is wrong in spirit, it means that I'm being a bitch and playing word games.
You are leaving me information starved. I cannot argue your points if all you're doing is yelling at me and spamming gold standard.
Honestly, thank you for actually explaining your viewpoint as opposed to issuing statements. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Nicely played, Brady.
Most amazing jew boots |