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Products of Creation Science
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killerpineapple
Chocobo


Member 18440

Level 10.84

Jan 2007


Old Nov 30, 2007, 04:47 PM Local time: Nov 30, 2007, 02:47 PM #251 of 270
But why? That's what you're doing. You're saying "I don't really pay attention to the whole BIBLE thing - I just want to get on God's cool list!" Which, if you ask me, is not very Christian at all. You're afraid of the consequence - you're not actually paying attention to the point. I'm not a religious person, but if I were, I'd be offended.
It is simply way too difficult to get on the 'cool list' without familiarizing yourself with the bible. I wish I didn't have to repeat myself, but interpreting parts of the Old Testament figuratively does NOT mean I don't pay attention to the bible. Please stop trying to make it appear otherwise. Yes, I'm afraid of going to hell. No, I pay very careful attention to the teachings in the bible.

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What does church have to do with what you believe? It's just a big building where a certain type of believer congregates to worship. Apparently, God hears you better if you're all praying at once in the same place?
Yes. It is clearly written in the bible that God will pay more attention when two or more people pray in one accord. Church is not a building, it's a group of people who worship together so you're correct about the location not being important. However, fellowship is an integral part of Christian development. Good question.

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I would love it if everyone for their own path to god, and found it without the "help" from a church or organization.
I disagree, but this is based purely on my religious beliefs. I won't attack your ideals.

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You know why people "fear" god? Because the church wants you to. It keeps you in check. It creates (no offense) people like you who follow the religion not because of the good message it brings, but because you're scared shitless of going to hell.
Yes, I fear God. But that doesn't mean I don't willingly do the good things I do. A young child may fear his parents and be motivated by this, but it doesn't mean that child won't also do things out of love for his parents too. My church wants me to both fear and love God. Without love I am no better than a fallen angel who has only fear. A Christian motivated more by fear and less by love is a Christian who doesn't understand God. When I pull over to help someone in a car accident it isn't because I'm afraid of God, it's because I simply want to help. I happen to credit God with my desire to do so. Of course, without religion, I'd like to think I was a pretty decent person. But now having believed, I'd like to think I'm capable of even more good.

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You're pretty much admitting that the GOAL is to be a slave to Christ.
Yup. It sounds lame, idiotic, and obtuse; i know. I don't expect most people to accept it or even understand why Christians would think this way. It really only makes sense to the devout.

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Yes, it's freedom. You know how? Because you willingly reduce yourself to a little robot. You don't have to challenge yourself. You don't have to think about what is actually right and wrong. You don't have to think about morals. You only have to do what the church tells you to do.
I find it impossible to think of myself as a robot because I still feel passion and temptation. I think about right and wrong all the time. Sermons and bible reading aren't going to spell out the solution for every single problem. Life is just too complicated. I have to take what I know and constantly apply it. Sometimes I fail, but I learn and become better for it.

Quote:
They say ignorance is bliss, afterall.
While not as blissful as I'd like, I still think I have a lot of bliss.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Grail
Wonderful Chocobo


Member 2483

Level 21.21

Mar 2006


Old Nov 30, 2007, 06:22 PM Local time: Nov 30, 2007, 06:22 PM 2 #252 of 270
Yes. It is clearly written in the bible that God will pay more attention when two or more people pray in one accord. Church is not a building, it's a group of people who worship together so you're correct about the location not being important. However, fellowship is an integral part of Christian development. Good question.
I'd like to say for one second that I'm impressed you haven't taken the usual route by those who defend christiantiy by calling us a bunch of heretics and going off on a god spam, you have my respect.

Though to the above, in the quote, that god pays attention to those who pray with more than one person...that to me just says that as a single entity we don't matter, a single person doesn't matter, but a group does. Kinda sounds like the government to me >.>

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Yup. It sounds lame, idiotic, and obtuse; i know. I don't expect most people to accept it or even understand why Christians would think this way. It really only makes sense to the devout.
This is like a battered wife saying that other people don't understand how much her abusive, redneck, tank top wearing, mullet cut husband loves her.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Traveller87
UNDER PROBATION


Member 26124

Level 9.15

Nov 2007


Old Dec 2, 2007, 06:08 AM Local time: Dec 2, 2007, 12:08 PM 1 #253 of 270
While it is anyone's prerogative to start a museum, and I'm not opposed to its existence, I think the term "creation science" is pretty amusing. No offence, but to me, that's the same as "middle earth science", or (since I can just see the outrage coming here - Lord of the Rings isn't as old and influential, etc.) "the scientific mechanism of the sirens' calls". The analysis of fictitious stories is literary, not scientific.

I was speaking idiomatically.
wvlfpvp
I'm going to write the most erotic, graphic, freakiest friend fiction ever


Member 122

Level 55.02

Mar 2006


Old Dec 2, 2007, 10:25 AM #254 of 270
BUT IT'S NOT FICTICIOUS YOU HEATHEN GRRRR

How ya doing, buddy?
It was lunchtime at Wagstaff.
Touching butts had been banned by the evil Headmaster Frond.
Suddenly, Tina Belcher appeared in the doorway.
She knew what she had to do.
She touched Jimmy Jr's butt and changed the world.
Grail
Wonderful Chocobo


Member 2483

Level 21.21

Mar 2006


Old Dec 2, 2007, 11:39 AM Local time: Dec 2, 2007, 11:39 AM #255 of 270
Think about it this way. If Scientology exists, and we all know that it is fake/doesn't even matter, think about how easy it was for people back 2000 years ago to believe that a man could walk on water blah blah blah.

Sure, Hubbard was one guy, but get enough people to back up your claim, and soon it spreads. Hell, I don't even know if Hubbard actually STARTED that damndable religion, but hey...Following what went on with the whole "God" thing, only a few people have seen 'god' and wrote about it...same with Hubbard...yet we bash scientology because Tom Cruise is an active member. So what's the big difference?

FELIPE NO
Traveller87
UNDER PROBATION


Member 26124

Level 9.15

Nov 2007


Old Dec 2, 2007, 07:27 PM Local time: Dec 3, 2007, 01:27 AM #256 of 270
The difference lies in how deeply rooted and accepted Christianity is in our society. Its influence (both positive and negative) on our very basic laws is far greater than the influence of a -so far deviant- group of scientologists. It's easy to stigmatize an out-group.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Grail
Wonderful Chocobo


Member 2483

Level 21.21

Mar 2006


Old Dec 2, 2007, 10:56 PM Local time: Dec 2, 2007, 10:56 PM #257 of 270
The difference lies in how deeply rooted and accepted Christianity is in our society. Its influence (both positive and negative) on our very basic laws is far greater than the influence of a -so far deviant- group of scientologists. It's easy to stigmatize an out-group.
Deep rooted or not, the Bible is still just a ficticious account. I'm sure if there is a God, I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would enjoy having several groups made out of his image bickering about how one is better than the other.

Christianity states that there is only one God correct? And if anyone doesn't recognize their god, they are heathens and will suffer for all eternity. Well, if God created man in his image, that's pretty much saying that a LOT of what God is is rubbish, and isn't worthy. Know what I'm saying?

That is why I love Greek and Roman, even Egyptian and Norse Mythology. Sure, there was one God that started it all, but you have CHOICES as to who to actually worship without everyone going up in arms. And the great thing about it is, no matter who you worshipped, everyone went to the same place...though that place wasn't just black and white, it was an entire account of what good deeds you did and what bad deeds you did...and if the bad outweigh the good (and I mean seriously bad shit like murder for profit yadda yadda) Then your ass unfortunately got sent to the bad side of things.

Christianity: What? You don't belive in OUR god? Well shit...off to the fryer with you then.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Misogynyst Gynecologist
In A Way, He Died In Every War


Member 389

Level 49.28

Mar 2006


Old Dec 2, 2007, 11:18 PM #258 of 270
I'm sure if there is a God, I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would enjoy having several groups made out of his image bickering about how one is better than the other.
To alter one of the oldest arguements against God - If there is a God, why does he allow people to argue over him? Either he doesn't exist and thusly cannot care or he's a dipshit and enjoys watching people argue.

Most amazing jew boots
Grail
Wonderful Chocobo


Member 2483

Level 21.21

Mar 2006


Old Dec 3, 2007, 12:19 AM Local time: Dec 3, 2007, 12:19 AM #259 of 270
To alter one of the oldest arguements against God - If there is a God, why does he allow people to argue over him? Either he doesn't exist and thusly cannot care or he's a dipshit and enjoys watching people argue.
Well it does have to do with the whole free will thing, but more importantly, if there is a God. Though I just think it's hilarious that most of the time it's the ones who worship him the most that are the ones probably going to burn for insulting him unintentionally.

One would think that acceptance would rule high up their on God's list of things he wants from Man, but shit...guess not.

And I do believe that if God does sit up there and enjoy watching people argue over him, then we actually MIGHT be in his image...I mean shit, how many people watch Jerry Springer or fucking Maury Povich?

YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER

OH HELL YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOOOOOI

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Misogynyst Gynecologist
In A Way, He Died In Every War


Member 389

Level 49.28

Mar 2006


Old Dec 3, 2007, 12:21 AM #260 of 270
Well it does have to do with the whole free will thing, but more importantly, if there is a God. Though I just think it's hilarious that most of the time it's the ones who worship him the most that are the ones probably going to burn for insulting him unintentionally.
There is a very simple problem with your arguement. You say that people are insulting him unintentionally by improper worship. Unless you have direct, proven contact with God himself - how are you doing any different than they are? How do you know differently than them? (Admitting athieism after this point only proves you may not understand what you're saying.)

How ya doing, buddy?
Grail
Wonderful Chocobo


Member 2483

Level 21.21

Mar 2006


Old Dec 3, 2007, 12:49 AM Local time: Dec 3, 2007, 12:49 AM #261 of 270
There is a very simple problem with your arguement. You say that people are insulting him unintentionally by improper worship. Unless you have direct, proven contact with God himself - how are you doing any different than they are? How do you know differently than them? (Admitting athieism after this point only proves you may not understand what you're saying.)
It's not necessarily improper worship, I just think it's a little odd that most everyone believes that we are made out of God's image, and if that is so, having intolerance for another's beliefs, race, sex etc. etc. would be indirectly insulting God's image would it not?

It's just an idea, I'm not any different than anyone else, but I'm not a bible thumper either. What you're asking me, I believe, is if I know exactly what God's idea of proper worship is...and I don't. I just don't think a good way of worshiping one god would be to completely alienate everyone who doesn't agree with me. To me that would be more along the lines of kissing ass, which was mentioned above...brown nosing to get into heaven if you will.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Traveller87
UNDER PROBATION


Member 26124

Level 9.15

Nov 2007


Old Dec 3, 2007, 05:46 AM Local time: Dec 3, 2007, 11:46 AM #262 of 270
Of course it's a fictirious account. I was just saying that it's one which is deeply rooted in our society (whether I like it or not). Alternative groups threaten this authority, which is why they become stigmatized.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
DarkLink2135
River Chocobo


Member 5122

Level 24.05

Apr 2006


Old Dec 4, 2007, 03:34 AM 1 #263 of 270
My personal take on church (assuming you are religious in the first place) is that it's good for offering opinions/teachings/theologies you wouldn't otherwise be exposed to or learn about. However, it can be bad if you just take everything in and assume it is correct. If you never think about it, never apply laws of common sense, or indeed, what the Bible/Jesus actually teaches to what you heard in church, that can become a very bad thing. Consequently, I've got a lot of beliefs the church would probably find pretty heretical. I'm not trying to say that everyone just goes out and does their own thing, and decides what truth is - but I don't think getting your truth by being a "church sheep" is an intelligent idea at all.

Quote:
It's not necessarily improper worship, I just think it's a little odd that most everyone believes that we are made out of God's image, and if that is so, having intolerance for another's beliefs, race, sex etc. etc. would be indirectly insulting God's image would it not?
The idea behind this is that we were created perfect, but then everyone is fallen through the sin of Adam and Eve. Now I know we can debate endlessly whether or not that account is meant to be taken metaphorically, literally, or if it's just plain fiction, but that's the explanation I've always heard, and it makes sense. God makes us in his image, (not physical, more the ability to think, create, etc, more abstract stuff) but we end up being disobedient, and are fallen.

--------

I don't think the Bible is very clear on specific ways to worship in a church setting. I think fellowship is important, but the how is not. Nobody knows what the idea of proper church worship is, but it's not like everyone is doing it wrong because of that. People just have different ways of doing things, ways that make them feel closer to God, etc. I don't think people should make a big deal out of someone who thinks having "tongues" in service is a good idea, or someone who thinks it's better to take communion every single service, etc. Whatever floats your boat. Some of things Christians debate about are quite petty and irritating.

The original topic, at any rate:
Creationism is not science. It's a religious theory that uses scientific methods to make it more plausible. As such I don't think it has any place being funded by any sort of public money. A creation museum is just laughable. Creation scientists have thought up some of the dumbest things I've heard of in years. Not to say I haven't heard interesting, thought-provoking, and intellectual arguments for Creationism, but I'd be afraid to go to a "Creation museum" for fear of busting out laughing. I'd be throwing a huge fit if my money were going to fund something like this. If it's completely privately funded, then whatever. Let the people who enjoy that sort of thing enjoy it.

How ya doing, buddy?

FGSFDS!!!

Last edited by DarkLink2135; Dec 4, 2007 at 03:42 AM.
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