Catholic/Christianity question

QWERTY!

This question will raise my ignorant level /ignorance level over 9000.

Christians =/= Catholics?

Spoiler:

Quote:

Catholicism is a different, more traditional form of Christianity, even though Christianity was derived from Catholic beliefs.

Their core beliefs are identical: Jesus Christ is the Savior and Lord and He died for our sins so that we may be saved.

However, Christians disagree with certain aspects of Catholic beliefs like confessionals and prayer to the saints and the Virgin Mary. Christians believe in no greater significance in the saints/prophets and the Virgin Mary, as Christians believe all believes are prophets.

Also, Catholics believe in purgatory, which Christians do not.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by I love Jesus and christian = Catholic

And yep, there are some rather very ignorant posts here. Catholics are Christians. And just out of curiosity, I actually [/strike]googled[strike] Wikipedia'ed Christian Denomination, and lo and behold, Catholicism was listed along with Protestantism and other Christian communities.

Okay, now we have this guy saying that Christian = Catholic

wall of junk:

Originally Posted by Bunch of junk, don't read me

“Catholicism is NOT the same thing as Christianity.”

Yes, it IS. In fact, Catholics were the first Christians. The Roman Catholic Church existed from the time right after the death of Jesus Christ. The Bible came from the Catholic Church…not from Protestants, as the Protestants like to believe (because they ignore history that happened more than 500 years ago). The Bible already existed–Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant “Reformation”–removed 5 books from the Old Testmant. That is why there is a Catholic Bible and a non-Catholic Bible. Catholics use the original text that includes the original 5 books. Other than that, they are the same.

The Protestant “Reformation” happened 500 years ago. There were no “pro-testants” before then.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by WOT!

Catholics are Christians, but are a specific denomination of Christians, which is why they have so many different beliefs (ex: Mary, purgatory, homosexuality).

Most people understand that while all Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are necessarily Catholic. Christianity IS a broad term, because it encompasses a lot of specific denominations, so telling someone not to generalize when using that word is pretty ignorant in itself. Christianity simply means believing in Christ as Savior. This is why Catholics have “different” beliefs than do Christians. Christian is really taken as a catch-all phrase that describes many religions.

But, yeah. I like how this became a forum for defining Christianity, Catholicism and (for awhile) Presbyterianism. Lalala~

Uh, wall of text, but basically saying Christian = Catholic again.


Okay, now I am really curious since there are people saying Catholic = Christian and there are others saying Christian =/= Catholic.

I know this will be really controversial (right?)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Uh, catholicism is a subsect of christianity. People who think that catholics are not christian tend to be wingnuts who think the Pope is the literal Antichrist as described in scripture.

For the rest of your questions, why not ask the people whose argument you're quoting here?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by a lurker

Uh, catholicism is a subsect of christianity. People who think that catholics are not christian tend to be wingnuts who think the Pope is the literal Antichrist as described in scripture.

For the rest of your questions, why not ask the people whose argument you're quoting here?

I am not arguing D:

I was lurking and there was this huge debate

Thanks for clearing it out

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It sounds a lot like that first guy is confused about the meaning of the word christian. He right out admits that Catholicism is a form of Christianity, but then goes on to state that Catholics are different from Christians. Clearly he means something else here.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think what blurs the distinction most are those people who refuse to be identified by any other term but "Christian." I've run into them and when asked, they refuse to get specific, they eschew any subclasses in what seems to be an effort to be everything to everyone.

"I am a Christian."
"Catholic? Protestant?"
"No. Just Christian."
"But there are numerous branches. Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Seventh Day Adventists..."
"Nope, Just Christian. That's all."
"Are you Born-Again?"
"No. We've always been just plain Christian."
"I don't get it."
"Heathen."

So they clearly hold themselves apart from the other sects. Even Born-Agains, who have a peculiar distrust of the traditional sects, will accept being a sect unto themselves.

It's a "squares are rectangles but rectangles aren't squares" kind of existence for them.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Uh, Catholicism is one of the biggest and oldest branches of Christianity. At some point it started with Catholicism, splintered into the Eastern Orthodoxy and the Anglican churches, and then came the Protestant Reformation. A highly abbreviated account to be sure, Wiki it for more information.

I don't see why people try to make a distinction and say Catholicism ≠ Christianity.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Quote:

And yep, there are some rather very ignorant posts here. Catholics are Christians. And just out of curiosity, I actually [/strike]googled[strike] Wikipedia'ed Christian Denomination, and lo and behold, Catholicism was listed along with Protestantism and other Christian communities.

This is correct. Catholicism is a sect of Christianity. It is the earliest form of Christianity, but apart from that, it is under the same religious heading as Protestantism, methodist, etc...

Quote:

“Catholicism is NOT the same thing as Christianity.”

Yes, it IS. In fact, Catholics were the first Christians. The Roman Catholic Church existed from the time right after the death of Jesus Christ. The Bible came from the Catholic Church…not from Protestants, as the Protestants like to believe (because they ignore history that happened more than 500 years ago). The Bible already existed–Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant “Reformation”–removed 5 books from the Old Testmant. That is why there is a Catholic Bible and a non-Catholic Bible. Catholics use the original text that includes the original 5 books. Other than that, they are the same.

The Protestant “Reformation” happened 500 years ago. There were no “pro-testants” before then

This person's forgetting the history that happened thousands of years before Catholicism. Actually, the bible didn't come from Catholicism. It came from Judaism, plain and simple. When it was translated from Hebrew to Greek, the transcribers added books to the bible, and that then came to be known as the Septuagint which is used by the Greek orthodox church. When the Septuagint was translated to Latin more was added in the same way, and became known as the Vulgate. The Vulgate was translated directly to english, and became the Catholic Bible. When Luther incited the Reformation he removed those books because they were added after the fact.

FELIPE NO

To give a marvelous food example (because that's what I do):

Christianity is liken to FRUIT. You have all different kinds of foods and blends of food groups, but Christianity could be just the fruit group for now, suppose.

There are so many different kinds of fruit! And sometimes, new ones are "discovered" in different parts of the world! Apples, oranges, all that jazz - they're all under the title of "fruit." And fruit here would be, you know, the belief in Christ as a messiah.

If you really want to get into it, the analogy falls apart at "which religion beget which denomination," but Catholicism is just another sect under that BIG BANNER of JESUS.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Zergrinch

Uh, Catholicism is one of the biggest and oldest branches of Christianity. At some point it started with Catholicism, splintered into the Eastern Orthodoxy and the Anglican churches, and then came the Protestant Reformation. A highly abbreviated account to be sure, Wiki it for more information.

I don't see why people try to make a distinction and say Catholicism ≠ Christianity.

Well Protestants, Episcopalians* etc will probably give you the stink-eye if you call them Catholics.

As for the people who say Catholics aren't Christians, or rather that they're not true Christians, I think that's rooted in American evangelism. It's too bizarre for me to figure out, so I dismiss it as equal parts centuries-old feuds and snakehandling. All I know is that it's so prevalent a view that one of my coworkers said to my face that he didn't think Catholics were real christians, but then I think I embarassed him when I told him I was catholic and so he ditched out of the bar early. it's not like I live in a really religious area or anything either.

* I cannot believe I got that word right on the first try.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I, for one, am amused at the idea that anyone -regardless of denomination- who believes in Christ as a messiah is not a "true Christian."

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Being "Christian" is for the most part just a vague sort of hand-wavey acknowledgement of very basic precepts for someone who is not in fact all that involved.

For the rest it's probably legitimately unclassified. Core religious beliefs of my family as I've experienced it are basically a revivalist type preaching style in a specifically non-denominational setting. The focus is on salvation through Christ and the rest seems to be pretty much minor details. I don't know where that fits into the taxonomy of religion.

Also Sass I'm pretty sure that stupid protestants (ie. high school kids/rabid activists) believe that Catholics don't see Christ as a messiah because they pray to all these other people. Like his mom. And fishermen. So the conflict isn't over the definition of the term, but rather a complete misunderstanding of the practice. Also I'm only talking about the definition of christian, since "true christian" is way more loaded and definitely has varying definitions.

How ya doing, buddy?