A Confusing Situation

I met this girl back in February in one of my classes, who was very attractive and would always come to me when she wanted help for things. Over time we got to talking and hanging out more, and I worked with her on a major project she was doing for that aforementioned class. I had started to have some feelings for her and never mentioned anything about it, when out of nowhere she introduces me to her fiance. I decided to keep quiet about my feelings, and we started to become closer and closer friends as time passed.

We took a class together in June, and everything was going pretty well until all of a sudden I noticed her becoming distant towards me. We had already planned to take two classes together in July and then two more together for the long semester in August, and I wasn't sure what was wrong. Eventually when the two classes started in July, she had switched out of one of them and then told me I was overbearing and she needed space and to leave the other one as well. She began to avoid me entirely, and could not even face me to talk to me in person. This caught me completely by surprise, because I had never done anything to be overbearing. I never went to her place unannounced, she called me more than I did her, and we never talked over e-mails or text messages at all.

Here's where I fucked up. Once this had all happened and in a panic, I let my feelings loose over an e-mail as a sorta desperation move to try and retain what was left, which was probably the worst mistake I could have made. Since then, we've been talking over e-mails and she was sending me mixed messages in regards to re-establishing a friendship. Some would forgive me, others would condemn me further. When Fall classes came however, the e-mails from her stopped completely and then I was told by an instructor that she approached about it that she no longer wanted any contact with me. She also told that instructor that I was a "friend" of hers and that she eventually wanted to fix things with me, but her actions don't really equate to that.

This entire situation has been punishing for me simply because I have an issue with abandonment in my life, as my parents and most of my friends and immediate family have abandoned me over my lifetime and I viewed this as something similar which caused me to panic. I know that I need to avoid contact with her and move on, but when you move on so much and you hit the reset button in your life so many times after so many abandonments you really get frustrated with everything. I really wanted to stay friends with her and only friends, because she had invited me to do things with her that I had never experienced before like hunting, camping, etc. Because I was abandoned at 5 years old by my parents, I never had a mother to shower me with compassion or a father to play sports or do the things a father and son would do. I think all of this plays into the equation somewhere, but I have no idea.

I have actually gone to receive counseling for the abandonment issues, but I don't know how to perceive much of anything anymore with situations and the like. Anyone have any comments or ideas as to how I should approach this?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Regardless of whether or not she wants to be your friend again someday, if you pursue her further you'll piss her off to the extent of her hating you forever.

Girls are just crazy, so indulge her for a while or write it off. Go find yourself a girlfriend who isn't engaged and wants to be with you.

Somebody that unclear probably isn't gonna be that much fun anyway, she'll just change her mind again a week into your relationship and you'll be posting again.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Decoy goat said it best, you've done everything you can do some remedy the situation (and quite a few things that have undoubtadly made it worse) so it's time for you to play the waiting game, or failing that hungry, hungry hippos. A word of advice for the future, next time you want to tell someone how you're feeling, don't.

Anyway, you're a guy, you shouldn't have feelings, or at least shouldn't own up to having them.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Yeah, I know that was a pretty big mistake in saying that. I felt cornered at the time, and anyone who's cornered can make irrational decisions like that. I was never really looking for a relationship out of this, but more or less a friendship. We brought the best out of each other while we were friends, and everything seems so empty now that this has happened.

I guess it was my fault that I fell for her while she had a fiance in the first place, although I was never aware of the fiance until after it was too late. She was a blast to be around, and I really miss being able to hang out with her. Not much I can do if she's pissed at me.

All I can really do is give it time at this point, but that time is pretty excruciating to say the least. We have three classes together now and I see her at least once every class day.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You need to brush aside your personal issues with abandonment. Your luggage is YOURS - do not justify burdening this girl with your luggage.

Control and identify your drawbacks - don't lay them on other people.

At the same time, like everyone else said, you're going to need to write her off. Let her come to you in the future if you think there's a possibility of friendship.

DO NOT go to her.

Most amazing jew boots

A girl I know has issues with an e-stalker, and it's kinda interesting to see as a "not-so-neutral" party. I can actually sort of tell that the guy is well-meaning. I mean he's one creepy motherfucker, so it's not 100% comparable to you, but he's not like, sending her love letters or staring at her with binoculars from an opposite building.

But something about his behaviour has "creepy" written all over it. And definitely the most important part about this is the fact that whenever she shows up, he's all over her. In this case it's only online so it's kinda easy to avoid him, but whenever she momentarily forgets to set invisible on AIM, he sends her a message, whenever she's on Gmail for more than thirty seconds, he sends her one of those chat things, and so on. And the kind of messages he sends are very... "nice". They're too nice.

Although you say you didn't do this with her, you may have done something that gave off that kind of vibe. Girls are pretty sensitive about stuff like this, moreso than guys, at least in my experience. In your case of course there is actual attraction going on by your own admittance, so it's not like she was entirely wrong in her assessment...

I mean, what Decoy said may be right--she may just be a fickle college (high school?) girl. But I've had the opportunity to look at this slightly from a female perspective (even if it was second-hand), and it was kind of an eye-opener. There's a very subtle difference between creepy and just friendly.

I sympathize with your abandonment issues, it may be something you should get therapy for, I don't know. However, to draw a parallel with that girl I know--after some time of receiving (and ignoring) these creepy messages and requests for more pics and so on, she eventually sent the guy an email basically going "the things you say to me really creep me out. I need a lot more space than you give me, and you really make me uncomfortable. You don't know how to talk to me. I don't know if we can be friends anymore. Give me time." I think this is basically the equivalent of what your friend did with you, albeit via a teacher.

BUT after she sent that message, he left her alone for maybe a week or two, and then started again with the creepy messages. This basically sealed the deal for her. So don't do that, don't go and try to talk to her. Like everyone else has said, let her come to you. They're super right.

As for yourself--move on. There's nothing else you can really do that will help more. Find a new friend, and/or find a girlfriend. That alone could very well make things a lot easier for her to get back in touch with you, and it's generally a good idea to have a few friends so if one disappears or you have a falling out, it's not the end of the world like it seems to be for you now.

Ergh, this became a bit long and disheveled. Hope it helps, or something...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I think regardless of whether you're right or she's right, for whatever reason she has decided that you won't leave her alone. I don't really think it matters if this is accurate or not. She perceives things this way, so you have to leave her completely alone. No emails, no text messages, no saying hi in the hall before class.

Trust me, if she wants to resume a relationship with you she will let you know. And if not, it's better not to have the stress of all this in your life.

FELIPE NO

I agree that she isn't entirely wrong in her assessment, because I had no right to continue to have feelings for her after I became aware that she had a fiance. I was never all over her and haven't sent her letters or anything of the sort. She initiated almost all of the contact between us up until recently, and when I was told that she no longer wanted contact I stopped. As I said, I don't send her anything or say anything to her or anything. I have moved on from trying to regain her friendship and moved on from the feelings, but at the same time it's still eating me alive inside that someone could misconstrue how I act as creepy or stalkerish. I mean, I hope to god I don't give that kind of aura off to everyone, but that might explain a great deal of the whole abandonment bit.

Oh and Sass, I never used my abandonment problems as leverage. I'm just trying to see whether or not that fits into the equation of how and why all this happened. Like for instance, because I never had a mother in my life I lacked any female influence, the kind where someone showers you with compassion and looks out for you. I'm wondering whether or not I had likened her friendship with me to that, because she was doing things like that with me.

But yes, I am leaving her completely alone. At the same time I just want to sort this out with myself and have everything in perspective so that if she ever does approach me again, that I won't make the same mistakes again.

How ya doing, buddy?

Ironically, I'm at the second paragraph that you are at at the moment. It will stay that way.

What I have to say is on what you said here:

"I agree that she isn't entirely wrong in her assessment, because I had no right to continue to have feelings for her after I became aware that she had a fiance."

Best thing to do here? It's cliched, but it works: write her a letter, and then put it in an envelope, and throw it away. That think about having no right to have feelings? Come on. Hormones don't care about social morals, they care about girls. Let it out, but in a way that hurts neither of you, and then just keep walking in the halls. There are other fish in the sea (something I'm going to have to accept as well...)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Writing is actually the only method I've had to cope with all this, and I've written so much that I could probably turn it into a novel. Wouldn't exactly be the most exciting novel in the world, but a novel nonetheless. But yeah, I've just become frustrated with having to continually hear "move on" and "forget about it" and "leave it alone" and "there are others out there" and "you'll find better" and all that. It's all I've ever heard really.

I'm really just not the type that can move on from girl to girl just like that, because once I become committed to whatever feelings I have they last until something big happens that can make me want to break that commitment. Just the kind of person I am really, I stay true to the feelings I have until they fade away.

I hope your situation works out for you, because the hell I've gone through the last three months trying to figure out what the hell happened with me and the whole situation is not something I would recommend anyone have to go through.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Kostaki

Writing is actually the only method I've had to cope with all this, and I've written so much that I could probably turn it into a novel. Wouldn't exactly be the most exciting novel in the world, but a novel nonetheless. But yeah, I've just become frustrated with having to continually hear "move on" and "forget about it" and "leave it alone" and "there are others out there" and "you'll find better" and all that. It's all I've ever heard really.

I'm really just not the type that can move on from girl to girl just like that, because once I become committed to whatever feelings I have they last until something big happens that can make me want to break that commitment. Just the kind of person I am really, I stay true to the feelings I have until they fade away.

I hope your situation works out for you, because the hell I've gone through the last three months trying to figure out what the hell happened with me and the whole situation is not something I would recommend anyone have to go through.

That's what I'm saying, though. While we suggest that you should move on, don't feel bad that you can't. Some people move at different speeds. The fact that you're putting your emotions into writing is excellent, and it's a step. The thing about other genders...you can't win all the time. When we tell you to move on, we believe it will be best for you as a person, but again, hormones don't think about social elements.

But you can win. And eventually you will; you just had shitty luck the first time. Until then, find an outlet for your emotions and pour it into that, and soon it will mull over.

As for my situation, I would call it ended already. I'm good, and I've gone elsewhere.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm not sure I would call it hormones, if only because I never really wanted to break her and her fiance apart at any time. I was fine with being friends with her and never taking that next step, to the point where even if they did break up and she still loved him I would do my best to intervene and try to bring them back together again. She may have been gorgeous, but sleeping with her was the last thing I wanted. I just enjoyed being around and being influenced by her, because she raised my spirits and helped me really find who I was and what I wanted to really do with the rest of my life.

She helped unlock a lot of potential I thought I never had, and I eventually came to respect her a whole hell of a lot because of it. If we could work together on school work and in organizations, talk from time to time, and hang out every now and then, that was all I really wanted out of the friendship. I may have developed feelings for her, but I never intended or wanted to break the relationship she currently had.

As much as I'd like to say I'll beat this, there are too many other extenuating circumstances that would tell me otherwise. She's in three classes, two of the organizations I'm in, has the same major and field of study (law) that I do, and I'm good friends with her family who actually have been pretty supportive of me wanting to become friends with her again. But I've come to terms with knowing that she has no place for me in her life, and I'm not going to force her to make a place for me. She was important to me because she accepted me really, something I rarely ever experience from other people for whatever reasons. I just didn't want things to end like this.

I'm glad you've worked your situation out and have moved away from it, and I wish I could do that. I guess I'll have to eventually, but that's how the abandonment cycle works for me. It's just a bomb with a timer set to begin when I let the next person in and begin to trust them, and once that timer blows up the cycle begins and shit hits the fan. It sucks, heh.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

With regards to your situation, I agree with everyone else. She's effectively ended it, so there isn't much you can do but try to move on, as hard as that is.

With regards to being perceived as "creepy", there are several factors that could give rise to it. For example, even though anxiety is a natural feeling, strong, irrational anxiety may be seen by the other person as creepy, particularly if you seem anxious for her attention and approval. This is doubly true if you appear to be fixated on her. Since desperation can be creepy, I think it may look creepy when this anxiety is mistaken for desperation.

Using surrashu's e-stalker acquaintance as an example - the stalker was desperate enough for the girl's attention and approval that he is constantly messaging her and telling her things that he thinks she'll like, and she thought that was creepy. Of course, this is conjecture, but to me, it makes sense. (Or maybe he was just desperate in general, lol).

I'm not saying you're any of those things, of course - I'm just saying this so that hopefully, it'll help you make sense of all of this. As surrashu said, there's a very subtle difference between being friendly and being creepy, and not all of us know when we've crossed the line, since the line can vary for different people!

Also, having good social skills will help you avoid being looked at as creepy. Knowing basic body language and physical social cues is helpful - for example, I know not to stare and make a person feel uncomfortable, but I'm constantly surprised but how many people like to STARE (I find them mostly at anime cons, lol). There's a reason why creepy people often have poor social skills.

Again, I'm not saying that you're that way, but if you're being "eaten up" by being misconstrued as creepy, why not banish that worry by reading up about how to make people feel comfortable? (That's something I should do, too - people don't think I'm creepy so much as they think I'm intimidating).

Lastly, having many friends of different genders and backgrounds will help with that. Like surrashu, I know that what I learnt about creepiness was conveyed to me by my female friends and their bad experiences with stalkers, and through a lot of social interaction, I learnt how to present myself in a better way, too.

I think it will be really therapeutic for you if you can get more friends in your classes. I realize this may be easier said than done, but it really is worth a try - that way, you can ease your loneliness and feel better about yourself. Good luck.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'll admit that I'm not exactly the most social person or the most socially experienced, but that's also part of my childhood I wish never happened. I grew up with strict grandparents, and my grandmother basically considered anyone not Greek as trash and worthless. Therefore, I would end up having many people that could have been friends with me just call me strange and weird because of how my grandmother would always run them off. Eventually I started keeping to myself and not socialize at all out of fear that my grandmother would just end up running off the next friend I make.

That has followed me most of my life now and has kept me from making friends or approaching people as much as I'd like to. It went from the above to me simply not wanting to be abandoned again for whatever reason, and now that's stuck. I do have some anxiety about things, but I'm still far from what reasonable people would call a stalker. The only way to really learn how not to cross that line from friendly to creepy is by being social and gaining experience, but at the same time it's hard for me to gain that experience because of the above situations.

I mean, I realize the answer is "The fuck you doing son, get your ass out there and meet people. Don't stand and look around bitch, do something!" but that's far easier said than done because it takes friends to make friends, the connection has to inevitably start somewhere. I didn't really do much with my life other than sit around and play video games because of my physical disability and the like, so I don't have much I can relate to everyone else.

It's crazy how complicated all this is...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You know, friendship isn't a skill one works on. You say you're creepy, but if your creepiness is natural, then you might as well use it. What I'm saying is that instead of "finding someone else" in the sense of a new girlfriend, why don't you just find FRIENDS?

And don't disregard the internet. The internet can be really, really good at keeping yourself afloat.

You're intelligent, which edges off the creepiness. I, personally, admired your RPG posts. Granted, I'M PRETTY FUCKING CREEPY MYSELF, but then, we have to stick together, you know. So, the best thing to do in a situation where you KNOW that you'll have to watch your feelings slowly die (p.s. I just went through this over the past year) is to immerse yourself with friends, online and off. If offline friends is kind of a difficult thing, start talking to people on here. And don't try to be anything. Just relax and have fun.

That is the single-best advice, Kostaki.

How ya doing, buddy?

I've had almost everyone make that misconception, because I wasn't looking for a relationship here. All I wanted was a friendship with her, and I made that totally and completely clear even when I told her I had fallen in love with her. I told her I had no intention to act on my feelings, and no intention to break her and her fiance up. I was just trying to be honest and not hide anything because I thought they may not have trusted me anymore, so I laid all my cards on the table and was completely honest.

So much for honesty being the best policy, eh?

Making friends is far more difficult to me than it would be others, because of my past. I talk to people all the time, but all most will ever do is finish the conversation and not try to learn more about me or give me a chance to let me learn about them. Relaxing and having fun when all you really want to do is be accepted is almost impossible, especially in a situation like I'm in.

I've been trying so hard to get away from always playing video games or sitting in front of this computer and to go out and have like a normal college life. I almost had that while I was friends with her, and I thought for sure I could finally get out and experience what I missed in living life through my shitty childhood... and was promptly struck down and thrown back to where I was before I started.

I have no idea how the whole creepiness thing works, I guess it might be because I'm too good of a person to everyone in that I try to understand people before rushing to judgment. I don't know really.

How ya doing, buddy?

It's my honest opinion that when people say they want honesty, 99% of the time what they mean is they want a lie that seems like honesty. I've been hit pretty damn hard myself for that many times and while I continue to be horrifyingly honest with people it never lends itself to my advantage.

You also sound a lot like me, which would just be sad if that's the case. I was home-schooled from middle school and onward so the majority of my life was pretty much me struggling to make friends in awkward situations/places (because I wasn't even going to school...) and then ultimately one long miserable "lonely" phase where all I was doing was playing video games and of course... sitting on the PC.

Love to say it gets easier but it really hasn't for me. I'm still struggling to force myself outside and make friends but most of it seems like wasted effort at best, all the while knowing that if I just give up that things will never get better. I'm not the most social person, but I'm definitely trying. Nobody else is going to notice or care that you feel it's "harder" for yourself to do what they do, either, so there isn't really anything you can do but suck it up and keep trying until it goes better.

How ya doing, buddy?

It hasn't been easy at all, because every attempt I've made to really get out and be social has ended in failure, which is why I placed so much value on the friendship I had with this girl. She came to me and accepted me, which made me feel like things were finally changing for the better and that things would finally be alright for me. How wrong I was.

I think I know what I'm going to do now though, as much as other people probably will chide me for doing it. I'll just take the love I still have for her and turn it into motivational energy to improve and better myself physically, emotionally, and socially. The next time I approach her in the very distant future, I'm going to weigh a hundred pounds less with an army of friends behind me and complete emotional stability. She may become the purpose, but the reason will be me.

I mean, even if that fails, I'll still have all the benefits. To me, this sounds better than moving on and continuing to struggle.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Kostaki

I think I know what I'm going to do now though, as much as other people probably will chide me for doing it. I'll just take the love I still have for her and turn it into motivational energy to improve and better myself physically, emotionally, and socially.

That actually sounds good to me.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.