ITT we discuss why you staffers can't moderate Microsoft's Window

Originally Posted by ^___^

Wait, what? How did I even get dragged into this shit? And when the fuck did I say anything like that?

Your comments in russ's journal entry on this subject say otherwise. Your name was brought up because you have said things on this subject that show you don't really give a shit.

Quote:

As Mikey said, we're working on it. The issue was brought up six days ago and resulted in two threads, one of which has 108 replies (more than any other thread in the Hut since the restart). Most active mods took part in the discussions and voted on the polls. I'm sorry if we gave you the impression that we didn't give a damn, but believe me, this thread is only breaking down open doors.

That's good to know, like I've said above. It's nice to know now that a solution to the problem is being formulated and put into motion. It's a shame we didn't know before, so this thread didn't turn into a waste of time and effort on all our parts.

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Oh, and don't compare me with Minion as a mod. I'm not the one who vanished saying I "don't give a shit". And since you guys insist on bringing up the Concert Hall, bear in mind it's only second to Community Commons in terms of actvitiy, and gets about ten times as much traffic as MW does. I'm sure you'd fully appreciate how "superfluous" the modding is in there if I suddenly decided I don't give a damn either.

I didn't mean to imply you are as horrible a mod as Minion was. If you ask me, he belongs up there on the staff shitlist with people like Cain. I do, however, have a problem with your attitude, as do many others. The concert hall comment was made because it seems like all the staffers who "originate" (for lack of a better word) from there turn into huge jerks after they gain any sort of powers.

And I do believe I said the "but it doesn't get a lot of traffic" excuse wasn't a good one. We've all come to the conclusion that that should make the forum easier to moderate, not easier to ignore.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

But the problem is that there are bad posts! I, too, dislike bad posts! I will get rid of them with massive efficiency! I fail to see the contradiction here.

Anyway if you own a PS2 this only proves you to be a huge Sony Fanboy that hates MS and wants them to fail and also you're a communist for the same reason.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Seriously, Pang. You're stalling progress here. Can we get a thread ban on this guy already?

EDIT: Pang has been thread banned, mission complete!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Thanks Skate.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Phew, now that this threat has been averted, I guess everyone can get back to, uhh, 'solving the problem' in this thread. (?)

FELIPE NO

Most of Aard's replies are shorter than that Devo, we should take what we can get.

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, yeah, rolleyes. Serious business Status Report / Mod Hut leak: there have been three threads for adding potential new mods. The votes are currently at 94%, 50% and 10% (heh) in favour for each candidate. So if the 94% person accepts the position, there should be at least one new moderator soon. (shrug)

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BM has a tendancy to jump into discussions about staff and just stir things up..I don't think we need any more of that, particularly.

You guys want a solution, right? So calm the hell down and wait for us to figure it out. It's been in discussion for longer than this thread has been in existence, as face already pointed out. You bitching in here is really just upping postcount.

Incidentally, Skills, I think it's kind of ironic that you're bitching about how bad moderators turn out when they were chosen specifically to mod the Concert Hall, yet you can't understand why we're reluctant to do the same for MW. From what I understand MW has an infinitely worse posting-level overall than the Hall, which means we should be doubly careful who we promote from there, no? Anyone we promote is automatically able to mod everything after the three month "testing" period--which is, by the by, simply a formality since no one has ever been demoted after their stint as a regular mod. You of all people should understand this, since you seem to be so against face and Minion.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'm not saying it's the fault of the Hall, it's just a coincidence that two of the staffers I find/found most grating came from there. That's all. I'll retract that specific statement if it means people will drop it, as I never meant for that to become this big a deal.

I also don't see why moderators have to be promoted to super mods after 3 months, especially when all that's needed is someone to moderate one small section of gaming. You don't have to promote them to super mod. An exception can be made because moderation in the other forums is, for the most part, pretty well done. You don't need anyone to moderate other areas. The only thing that needs help is the Window.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

So we mod them only to do MW, and leave them as the only staff member who's not an SMod? How fair is that?

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Well, I suppose the idea is that we shouldn't all be sMods in the first place. On one hand, I can sort of agree with that, but it would be weird to be restricted to three forums after having been a sMod for half a year. I dunno, I guess it's something that can be discussed.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Oh, "fairness" is what tha't sall about? Ok, that makes more sense now.

However, it doesn't need to be fair either. The theoritical person in question should understand that they are only being brought on board to moderate the Window. It's not a regular staffer position you're filling. It's more like an emergency stopgap or something.

Sorta like those temps that get hired in the office only to fill out excel spreadsheets all day. Sure, they aren't full blown accountants but they get the work done and they understand that that's all they were hired to do.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

Your comments in russ's journal entry on this subject say otherwise. Your name was brought up because you have said things on this subject that show you don't really give a shit.

Way to misinterpret things. If I didn't give a shit, why would I have commented?

I was surprised when I saw that entry because it made me think there had been a leak of some sort (hence the "Vegas" comment), as we had been discussing the issue in the Hut for days prior to that. I also objected to Devo's bitching as an efficient way of solving problems, but that's nothing new.

Quote:

I didn't mean to imply you are as horrible a mod as Minion was. If you ask me, he belongs up there on the staff shitlist with people like Cain. I do, however, have a problem with your attitude, as do many others. The concert hall comment was made because it seems like all the staffers who "originate" (for lack of a better word) from there turn into huge jerks after they gain any sort of powers.

Okay, let's hear about all the horrible things I've done since I became a mod. What's wrong with my attitude, and who are the "many others"?

For the record: I didn't gain access through the Concert Hall. I was first added as a general purpose mod, with the Concert Hall only being a little bonus.

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And I do believe I said the "but it doesn't get a lot of traffic" excuse wasn't a good one. We've all come to the conclusion that that should make the forum easier to moderate, not easier to ignore.

I only said that because the world "superfluous" was used regarding moderation in the Concert Hall. I wasn't trying to make MW sound like a non-issue, just saying the result might not be pretty if you remove the "superfluous". Yes, I get defensive.

How ya doing, buddy?

Actually, I thought that the Vegas comment {

Originally Posted by ^___^ in my journal

Wow, a lot sure happens in Vegas.

}

was referencing the fact that the most recently active thread in MW was a thread for the game Rainbow Six: Vegas, and that you felt like MW was not active enough to be of any concern to the serious business at hand elsewhere on the boards. That was how I interpreted it.

As far as wanting to find someone who would behave responsibly {in a manner befitting a moderator}, recent activities by a staff member illustrate the point that no one on staff is perfect and you will find no one "perfect" to moderate MW. I personally think {not that my opinion carries much weight, nor should it} that Shin or Devon would be ideal candidates for moderating MW because they know the subject matter, own the consoles, and are what I would consider good, respectable members here.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by nadienne

BM has a tendancy to jump into discussions about staff and just stir things up..I don't think we need any more of that, particularly.

I am a mod for the people!

like pang would have been ;_;

or lurker

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

I also don't see why moderators have to be promoted to super mods after 3 months, especially when all that's needed is someone to moderate one small section of gaming.

Consider it this way:

We only hire super mods, because we only want people considered to be good enough to be super mods on the team. The first few months is more or less a trial period to make sure that someone doesn't go and, like, fuck everything up I guess.

There's no such thing as "only good enough to mod MW".

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well maybe you don't need every moderator to become a full out supermod. I wouldn't see the problem with having subforum frequenters only be a moderator of that particular forum, and possibly be a s.mod later on. But a little second-tier moderator section with certain people in certain forums might be an ok idea.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The reason why everyone was made a supermod way back when is because people like me bitched that they were constantly getting fed problems in #gfchat and they couldn't take care of them because they were restricted to their couple of assigned forums. Back then we kept assigned forums and only used supermod abilities to take care of obvious problems when nobody else was around. Nowadays, forum assignments seem to be a little looser than before with people just going with wherever they're feeling ilke for the time.

Originally Posted by russ

Actually, I thought that the Vegas comment {}

was referencing the fact that the most recently active thread in MW was a thread for the game Rainbow Six: Vegas, and that you felt like MW was not active enough to be of any concern to the serious business at hand elsewhere on the boards. That was how I interpreted it.

Vegas is a sort of codeword for mods that originated a few years back with a thread that we had in the hut. Sadly enough, it was the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post and before I read face's comment.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Aardark

Well, I suppose the idea is that we shouldn't all be sMods in the first place. On one hand, I can sort of agree with that, but it would be weird to be restricted to three forums after having been a sMod for half a year. I dunno, I guess it's something that can be discussed.

As someone who started out as a regular moderator before all mods were bumped to supers, I can say that I think this would raise our efficiency level quite a bit. Knowing that a person is responsible for a specific task makes it seem less like an insurmountable object. It's like making a list of chores. If you know you have certain things to do, it can help you get them done. Thinking something like "Well, I should probably clean house" isn't going to give you much motivation. Sure, the mod team has forums they're responsible for by title, but not in practical nature. I think reducing the amount of responsibility would increase productivity.

Put plainly, I think some of the overall spam problem can be reduced if we go back to the old moderation system. There's no real need for all the super moderators we have, in my opinion. People have made the argument that a supermod or an admin needs to be present all hours of the day just-in-case-something-bad-happens. I suppose to a certain extent that may be true, but it seems to me like an exaggeration of the potential problems.

I don't think that if there is a period between 4 and 6 am during which there is no supermod or admin present, that a major catastrophe will occur. But even if it does, then we know there are people who are primarily responsible for it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, I think it would help if we actually posted the moderator assignments, no one really knows who does what right now. I mean, I know I follow the computing forums and Nintendo, but it's not written down anywhere, and it needs to be.

To be perfectly honest, if we explicitly assigned a current mod to MW, even if we weren't all super mods, I bet that person would stop moderating it shortly after.

Originally Posted by of pom

Well maybe you don't need every moderator to become a full out supermod. I wouldn't see the problem with having subforum frequenters only be a moderator of that particular forum, and possibly be a s.mod later on. But a little second-tier moderator section with certain people in certain forums might be an ok idea.

No, no, that's true, I understand that part.

BUT

If I don't consider someone good enough to be a full moderator, I don't want them in charge of even one forum. The rest of the mod team may feel different, but that's my opinion.

I was speaking idiomatically.

although I am also interested in the idea of dedicated forum mods, I'd be a lot more comfortable with there being a small group at first, instead of just one. Look, I bet out of the current staff, only three would be willing to bump themselves back down to normal mod. And if we only add one mod who will stay just a mod, they might understand at first that that's the arrangement, but as time goes on and new super mods need to be added, they will get antsy that they are not getting promoted. why lie? people do like fairness.

although the idea of regular or 'temp' mods is interesting, personally I can't see staff overlooking the 'needs to be a good overall mod' requirement.

also, I want pang back as staff. right now.

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The reason we prefer to choose "overall" moderators instead of ones who specialize in certain forums is due to moderator turnover.

For instance, let us say that NYRSkate, RacinReaver and I all step down for various, external reasons. This would leave a small gap, one which might require filling, depending upon GFF's activity.

In this case, the remaining moderators would look to the newest among them and see if they've shown enough capacity to "graduate" into wider responsibilities. Today's moderators might be tomorrow's Admins.

So, in choosing new mods, yes, we often have an idea of where we'd like them to begin. But we also hold the hope that he or she will mature into the role and expand their duties to the entire board. There's no truly good reason to limit an experienced moderator to only one or two forums.

Understand that when we take on new staff members, we do put them where there's a direct need for moderation. We expect that they'll be reasonably eager to prove themselves worthy of the gift of authority. But more importantly, we want that person to be well-adjusted enough that, should the need arise, we'll be able to depend upon him/her for more than just tending to one or two niche forums.

Believe me. I wish there was a quick, simple solution to the Microsoft's Window. Out of sheer curiosity, I looked in there and yes, I agree, it needs help. And I did take care of a few things. But I know it's not enough. Frankly, I don't know squat about the X-Box, so unless a comment is 100% blatant spam, I'm not the best person to make judgements upon that forum and its participants.

Yet in choosing someone to tend to Microsoft's Window, we realize that it's shortsighted to expect that person to oversee one forum and one forum only, forever. This is why we look for the "overall" candidate long before we consider the "specialist".


I'd also like to say that Pang was asked to be a moderator last year. For a brief while, he accepted. Then, with little reason given, he had a change of heart and stepped down from his duties. While we didn't understand why, we let him do as he wished. As far as we understood, he couldn't reconcile participating amongst the "establishment" while several uncited issues went unchecked. Conflicts of interest, I gather.

Now, to see him jockeying for moderation priveleges in Microsoft's Window, I am greatly amused. Not that I am thinking it'd be great to have Pang on staff again. I contemplate his rejoining and am only met with visions of his inevitable ennui and subsequent re-retirement. The entire suggestion seems ultimately pointless. I only laugh at his current argument in the sense that a parent might laugh at a young child who threatens to run away from home, a parent who knows it's an idle threat and that the child will be back as soon as it is cold and hungry.

As soon as the political winds shift at GFF, so too will Pang's interest in cleansing Microsoft's Window of its current malaise.

FELIPE NO

I really don't see the problem with having a few single-forum mods. With only a single forum to moderate, they'd be more focused on their modding and at far less risk of the all too common staff burnout. It's always a shame when a good poster gets modded and stops posting so much.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'm modding MW now, and another mod is in talks.

If any mod wants to continue this discussion, then go for it.

Until then: Closed.

Jam it back in, in the dark.