Big Brother is out to steal your.... handprints?

Originally Posted by L.A. Times

More cities and firms are turning to hand or finger scanners. Some employees say the move goes too far.

By David B. Caruso, The Associated Press
April 7, 2008

NEW YORK -- Some workers are doing it at Dunkin' Donuts, at Hilton hotels, even at Marine Corps bases.

Employees at a growing number of businesses are starting and ending their days by pressing a hand or finger to a scanner that logs the precise time of their arrival and departure -- information that is automatically reflected in payroll records.

Manufacturers say these biometric devices improve efficiency and streamline payroll operations. Employers big and small buy them with the dual goals of keeping workers honest and automating outdated record-keeping systems that rely on paper time sheets.

The new systems have raised complaints, however, from some workers who see the efforts to track their movements as excessive or creepy.

"They don't even have to hire someone to harass you anymore. The machine can do it for them," said Ed Ott, executive director of the New York City Central Labor Council of the AFL-CIO. "The palm print thing really grabs people as a step too far."

The International Biometric Group, a consulting firm, estimated that $635 million worth of these devices were sold last year, and projects that the industry will be worth more than $1 billion by 2011.

Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies, a leading manufacturer of hand scanners based in Campbell, Calif., said it had sold at least 150,000 of the devices to Dunkin' Donuts and McDonald's franchises, Hilton hotels and to Marine Corps bases, which use them to track civilian hours.

Protests over using palm scanners to log employee time have been especially loud in New York, where officials are spending $410 million to install an automated attendance tracking system that may eventually be used by 160,000 city workers.

Scores of civil servants who are members of Local 375 of the Civil Service Technical Guild rallied Tuesday against a plan to add the city medical examiner's office to the list of 17 city agencies that already have the scanners in place.

The scanners have rankled draftsmen, planners and architects in the city's Parks Department, which began using them last year.

"Psychologically, I think it has had a huge impact on the workforce here because it is demeaning and because it's a system based on mistrust," said Ricardo Hinkle, a landscape architect.

He called the timekeeping system a bureaucratic intrusion on professionals who never used to think twice about putting in extra time on a project they cared about, and could rely on human managers to exercise a little flexibility on matters regarding work hours.

"The creative process isn't one that punches in and punches out," he said.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg spokesman Matthew Kelly said that the system wasn't meant to be intrusive and that it has clear benefits over punch clocks or paper time sheets.

The city expects to save $60 million a year by modernizing a complicated record-keeping system that now requires one full-time timekeeper for every 100 to 250 employees. The new system would free up thousands of city employees to do less paper-pushing.

Another benefit of the system is curtailing fraud. Several times each year, the city's Department of Investigation charges city employees with taking unauthorized time off and falsifying time cards.

Other cities have embraced similar technology.

Cities as big as Chicago and as small as Tahlequah, Okla., have turned to fingerprint-driven identification systems to record employee work hours in the last few years. And the systems have been introduced into plenty of other workplaces without much grumbling by employees, especially those already used to punching a clock.

But the New York workers aren't the first to fight it. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees complained vigorously two years ago after the city of Pittsburgh proposed installing fingerprint readers.

"We had a lot of questions, a lot of concerns, and so far they haven't put it in," said federation Council 84 Director Richard Caponi.

Jon Mooney, Ingersoll Rand's general manger of biometrics, said the privacy concerns were unfounded. The hand scanners don't keep large databases of people's fingerprints -- only a record of their hand shape, he said.

Still, union officials in New York said they were concerned that the machines could eventually be used not just to crack down on employees skipping work, but to nitpick honest workers or invade their privacy.

Original Article on LATimes.com

My absolute favorite part of the article is where one advocate against this move says, "The creative process isn't one that punches in and punches out," While, admittedly, the quote in discussion came from an architect/city planner who feels that this is a system that will function as a killjoy for those workers who want to put in extra hours on a project they care about, can you imagine applying this to, say, McDonald's employees?

NO GUYS WE CARE ABOUT FLIPPING BURGERS AND ADDING TIME CONSTRAINTS TO THIS ALREADY CUTTHROAT CORPORATE WORLD IS ONLY GOING TO STIFLE MY CREATIVITY

Anyway... What do you guys think about a move like this? How would you feel if this was implemented at your work site?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Only thing I worry about is the corporations then selling your biometric information to the government and other institutions. Of this I would not be surprised, its a back door way for the government to get biometric details on everyone and I'm sure folks such Starbucks, etc.. if implement such devices would be more than happy to make a profit from them.

In the UK the Government is pushing for biometric ID cards; under the legislation they purportedly would be allowed to sell your information and ID biometric details to people such as banks, insurers etc....

There's nowhere I can't reach.

If it was used to store and disperse my biometric information to pencil-pushers world wide, then I really would be concerned about this practice becoming popular, but I kinda like the idea of the time-in, time-out idea from an efficiency perspective. At work, we already time in using a computer to track when we come and go, and this would just be easier for most people.

I guess as long as my information stays within the context of the workplace and only the workplace I wouldn't have an issue with it, and I don't really see why people are bitching about a hand scanner being demeaning or condescending. Grow a pair of balls.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Honestly I think it's ridic to use biometrics to clock in at schmuck jobs, although I think the hand scanner only memorizes the shape of your hand, not the actual imprint.

I heard the hand scanners specifically have a lot of real world problems, like hand shrinkage due to cold or shit like that. I used a finger scanner at a former job (grocery store) and it would miss maybe a quarter of the time.

What's wrong with key fobs?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

i really don't see that big of a problem with it. i already punch in my ssn to clock in at work. it just seems like an expensive luxury.

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There are two types of people who could possibly have a problem with something like this, if it's confined to the workspace: the people who are already dishonest about their hours, and the paranoid oversensitives. Neither group deserves to be catered to.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I believe that Germany has started trials of thumb print readers for credit cards, biometric identification is looking like the future of identification. I can understand how there might be opposition to it in America though, given you're about the only country in the world not to have adopted chip and pin yet.

I agree though that I'm not happy with my biometric data being passed around. Our government has proved several times that it can't keep data secure and the more they have, the more there is to lose. Luckily, my passport will need renewing next year, before the biometric ID cards become compulsary for new passport applicatants.

I would suggest though that most people are objecting to this because they're work-shy more than any real moral objections.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow

There are two types of people who could possibly have a problem with something like this, if it's confined to the workspace: the people who are already dishonest about their hours, and the paranoid oversensitives. Neither group deserves to be catered to.

No, there's also people who don't want to dick around with a crappily-designed security measure that will let you scan your hand ten times before you get in because that's how many scans it takes to get the damn thing to work.

And an anonymous key fob works just as well without being attached to anyone's thumbprint or hand shape. What now?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Ah, good point. Hah. Ok, my post is only true if we make two assumptions: 1: it's confined to individual workplaces and not traded as some sort of information commodity, and 2: the technology is reliable and works.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

While nifty, these things seem pretty useless to me. Even assuming they worked without issue, something Lurker already pointed out isn't the case, I can't see any major benefit over typing in a password real quick to clock in and out. I'm not overly concerned with my biometric data getting leaked, but it's still an unnecessary risk just to have a more modern method of timekeeping.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I can kinda understand why they would do this. At my work we have ID cards we swipe to clock in, but you'd be amazed how often people forget them. But you can't forget your hand now can you?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

We had these punch in clocks at the gas station I worked at last summer and the summer before. Said station has a chain of a whopping five stores, but earned enough money to afford these pieces of equipment somehow. Anyway, I thought they were great. When I started working, all I had to do was enter the password that was given to me and pick which finger I wanted to use to get the print scanned. After that, it took no more then 10 seconds to enter my password and scan my finger print.

During the time I was absent for university, the business did delete the the information for my fingerprint because there was no longer any need for it to them. I find that satisfactory and for businesses that do use these time clocks should all do the same once that employee is no longer working there. Now as far as the government goes, anytime you are arrested or are going to be working for a government institution like a public school, your fingerprints will be taken whether you like it or not, so it will be tucked away in some database and the paper used to take your prints will be put on file.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?